Thrive Makers Back Down On “Flower of Life” Claim!

 

[photo by Ray Flowers]

Debunking and fact-checking of claims in the Thrive movie are already bearing fruit. One of the outrageous claims made in the film is where Nassim Haramein says, at 16:32 of the film, that the “Flower of Life” design at the Osirian Temple in Abydos, Egypt is “burned into the atomic structure of the rock in some extraordinary way!” Neither Haramein nor anyone else provides a single shred of substantiation for this claim.

In context, the “Flower of Life” design is cited by Thrive maker Foster Gamble as being related to the “torus” design that he believes is a signal from extraterrestrials on how to tap free unlimited energy. The claim about the Osirian Temple design is intended to bolster the (false) idea that aliens came to Earth in ancient times and gave this design to various cultures. A debunking of the “Flower of Life” section appears in Part I of the debunking of the full-length film.

Now the Thrive makers have publicly admitted that the claim about the Flower of Life being “burned into the atomic structure of the rock” is false. Recently the “Fact Check” section on the Thrive website was changed to read thusly:

“Since the completion and launch of THRIVE: What On Earth Will it Take?, we have received new information that the Flower of Life symbol at Abydos is believed by some experts to be inscribed with Ochre stain, which might date it instead to the 1st century AD. It was clearly meant to stand the test of time and to do further testing would require chipping the stone which is currently not allowed. So it remains an open mystery. Nassim Haramein’s original reference was a statement by Greg Braden in his book, Awakening to Zero Point, where on page 135, he writes:

“These beautiful geometric codes have not been etched, painted or carved into the hard rose-granite walls – they are literally “flash-burned” into the stone through a process that is not understood today.”

It doesn’t remain an “open mystery” at all. There is absolutely no evidence that the design was “flash-burned” into the stone (whatever that means). The only basis for that claim is the statement in Braden’s book, but note that Haramein even got that wrong: Braden’s statement, at least as quoted by Thrive on the website, makes no reference to the atomic structure. Haramein just made that up.

So, the Thrive makers are already beginning to retreat from their claims. Note also that Haramein’s defense of the false claim is that he was simply quoting another totally unsourced statement, which he got wrong. Greg Braden is a prolific New Age author who likes to make broad sweeping statements about spirituality and consciousness, and has opined before on ancient astronaut theories. I found a review of Awakening to Zero Point on Amazon (here is the link) which has this to say about that book:

This book is full of much speculation and doubtful “facts” that are supposed, somehow, to be linked. I find it less convincing than most other reviewers. The book starts with a series of “Wow!” events that are implied (without evidence), to be connected. Included are: the end of the cold war, increased numbers of earthquakes, climate change, new viruses, increases in the number of alien sightings and crop circles, and unspecified “studies” and “evidence” that someone other than the Egyptians built the pyramids…

Sounds like the usual Thrive material: pseudoscience, unsourced claims, bad history, New Age woo and crankery being passed off as serious research.

Nevertheless, it’s significant that the Thrive makers backed down on this point. I am curious to see what other retractions they will (or will not) make over the coming months.

Thanks to “Sequoia” in the comments on a previous post for bringing the retraction to our attention.

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25 Responses to “Thrive Makers Back Down On “Flower of Life” Claim!”

  1. The Locke says :

    It’s actually kind of shocking that they backed down on at least one claim. Most conspiracy theorist won’t back down on any claim, even when they have been proven to be 100% wrong! Usually they just modify their claim at the very least to still fit their point of view, but using current evidence, or claim that the indisputable facts made are fake, and are being used in an attempt to discredit them.

    A question to those who still think that the stuff in Thrive is true: If they were wrong about this part, could it be that they are wrong about all the parts?

    • Skepticalskeptic says :

      Logical parallel: “If psychology’s claim that homosexuality is a mental illness is later retracted, does that mean all of abnormal psychology is wrong?”

      No. This doesn’t mean its all correct either. I for one, am skeptical of all arguments based on symbology as I think they detract from true arguments.Use your brain. If they make a claim but don’t elaborate on it….look it up. Easy as that. If someone says “Crystal Skulls came from the Aztecs” look it up…you find a study that proves they weren’t.

      Be skeptical of so called “debunkers” as well. They make the same fallacious errors, but have the benefit of the “status quo” to hide behind.

  2. Professor Pious says :

    Haramein has been making this claim for years, and even embellished on Braden’s “flash-burned” claim. He talks about the symbol at Abydos in this video starting around 5:55, and actually states it is “laser-burned” into the rock:

    Aside from the obvious that the Egyptians did not have laser technology at the time, there should be some visible evidence of rock melting inside the symbol if it was cut with a laser. It would have a glassy appearance, which it does not.

    So Haramein made up the laser part too, no need to blame Gregg Braden for that.

    On another note, that book review on Braden’s “Awakening to Zero Point” looked very familiar. It’s actually a very short version of the book review on the Skeptic Report by Richard Rockley:

    http://www.skepticreport.com/sr/?p=174

    Indeed, Thrive certainly makes use of the Braden method of “WOW! Events” to bamboozle the audience.

  3. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Hi, boys and girls of the THRIVE debunking multiverse!

    I’m so happy youse guys have taken this stand of debunking the movie, but I’m here to jazz up the conflict and make it more personal if not personable. You see, as it stands now, it’s like WW I trench warfare. You’re ensconced here in your “debunker” (pun intended!) lobbing skeptical mortar shells at Foster Gamble’s trench way across “No Man’ Land.” You celebrate some success here about them backtracking on the rock etching claim, but still, there’s too mush distance in between. So here’s my proposal.

    I happen to know Foster personally because of our mutual friendship with Arthur M. Young (1905-1995) inventor of the Bell-47 helicopter (which you see flying for about 8 seconds in the movie starting at 0:10:25.) Arthur founded the Institute for the Study of Consciousness in Berkeley in 1972 and is responsible for turning Foster on to the curious topological nature of the torus. (Check out Arthur’s website: arthuryoung [dot] com)

    I also happen to be moderator of the Arthur Young Yahoo group forum where Foster posts and I just posted my initial reaction to viewing the movie THRIVE.

    Remember that Foster is an Aikido master, which is a dance best done up close and personal, so maybe some of youse guys can join the fun on the Yahoo group in the hopes of putting away your clunky mortars and instead get down and dirty with some nice invigorating hand-to-hand Internet combat! I mean, why lob mortars when you can gouge eyes like Moe does to Curley?

    Anyway, here’s what I just posted for Foster and the gang at the Yahoo forum:

    —————————————-
    Posted by Tom Mellett on the Yahoo group Arthur:
    —————————————–

    Excellent movie, Foster! I just finished watching it on the YouTube link that Mike Buechele gave us here. I must say that the narration of your personal story is what lifts this movie far above its comparative conspiratorial genre efforts like Zeitgeist, Loose Change and even The Secret.

    And I must say: Wow, Foster, you still look quite the Ivy League hunk what with your California surfer aura and that plunging neckline. I pondered if you should have been wearing a gold medallion or something, even a Nehru jacket for 60’s nostalgia’s sake, but I think the only improvement I could make would be to put you in a dark navy blue Steve Jobs turtleneck. However, I must say that the screen really lights up whenever Kimberly comes on. Man, the camera loves her and by God, I could see you taking the last half hour of the film and putting it on TV as an infomercial. Jeez, she is so solid sweet and sincere that if she were selling Genie Bras on TV, I might even buy one.

    So go the “Full Monty,” Foster and make an infomercial out of THRIVE! I mean, you’re a salesman extraordinaire and the sizzling syzygy of you and Kimberly would be able to “sell the handle off a broom” as me late Irish father would quip in discussing a good salesperson.

    Again, what really makes THRIVE work is that you make it so personal, and what a personality you have! I mean, you’re as guileless as Forrest Gump, who is the modern American version of Parsifal in the search for the Holy Grail.

    The saving grace is that you are so guileless that you’d believe anything anyone would tell you, but in the end no one would hold it against you. That’s why you can get away with putting all these wacko-Bozo New Age Yahoos and hucksters in your movie (Hi, deep-Pockets Chopra and “2-4-6-8, Icke! the Reptilian” but it all worksd in your favor because it comes across vividly like a block party on Sesame Street, or even better, Mister Rogers Neighborhood.

    Wow, Eureka! Bingo! Now there’s an idea for you! Yes, I can see it now. You, Foster Gamble are truly the Fred Rogers for the new Millennium!!! Yes, indeed, maybe an early TV or Internet spinoff of THRIVE can be “Mister Gamble’s Neighborhood,” and then we can outfit you in one of Fred’s trademark zip up sweaters. And you can take us to the Land of Make Believe Conspiracy using not a trolley, but an anti-gravity powered flying saucer that abducts all the viewers into the New World Order Fantasy land.

    (On that note we can look into the Walt Disney approach but at some other time.)

    Think of the possibilities, Foster. Just as Fred Rogers would get visits from the postman or the delivery man Mr. McFeely (hey, rybo could play that part!), you could get visits from all these various new Age and Conspiracy characters and then you all go off to the Land of new World Order make Believe and have all kinds of cute and funny adventures.

    How about it, Foster? You could be King Friday XIII and Kimberly could be . . Lady Kimberly Saturday. And if we can’t get it on PBS, then we pitch it to commercial TV, and who else would sponsor it. Procter and Gamble. Soitenly! Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!

    Tom

  4. muertos says :

    Thanks for your comment, Tomfortas. The Yahoo post that you replicated here is amusing, so thanks for the humor as well.

    Honestly I have no intention of engaging in “hand to hand combat” with believers in the Thrive movie, much less Foster Gamble himself. This is not personal and I have nothing to gain by going to another forum to engage him or other Thrive makers. If they want to respond to items posted on this blog, they may do so just the same as any other commenter.

    I appreciate the style of your post, but in my view it sends the misleading message that there is something of an “equal contest” between claims made by the Thrive movie and those of us who rebut them. There is no such equal contest. You simply can’t argue with facts or logical reasoning, no matter how fervently believers in Thrive want to try to deny those things. The “battle,” if there is one, is grotesquely one-sided. I’m content to post our debunkings and our observations here and let the public who is interested in getting the facts about the Thrive movie find us through their own efforts. Of course I won’t speak ill of anyone who chooses, on their own terms, to engage Thrive believers with information posted here, and I wish you the best of luck. As conspiracy theorists and fringe believers tend to be largely impervious to logical or factual arguments, however, I personally find that a “law of diminishing returns” eventually kicks in once you push the debunking to its farthest limit. That’s just my opinion, however.

    • Robin Raindrop says :

      “…deliver us from Goddess Reason and Newton’s Sleep.” Any de-bunk on the conversation about “thriving” on this planet? Or does “scarceity” always trump “abundance” in your worldview?

      • muertos says :

        My “worldview” is entirely irrelevant. The only thing at issue in this blog is the factual and logical veracity of the claims presented in the Thrive movie.

    • See'r_between_the_lines_see'r_of_the_defensive says :

      Pussy.

  5. shortskirtlongjacket says :

    Hi, have you read the Debunking Handbook? http://www.skepticalscience.com/docs/Debunking_Handbook.pdf

  6. Levi Tarpley says :

    SO did everyone forget about the part where the big names control the money system?! This is more important than this rock myth in my opinion. Or how about the odd disappearance of Tesla and his research? That is written in the history books, not speculated. I mean I am all for facts before fiction, but some fiction has hidden facts; and rightly so. This atomic structure mumbo jumbo is irrelevant, there is other life out there now let’s move past that and look into the federal reserve, our energy production methods, and the operant abuse of worldwide capital. Thanks for helping me see another side folks!

  7. World citizen 13 says :

    The best part of Thrive is the follow the money section. Knowing about that is far more important than the issue of crop circles and so on. There you find the germ of truth in this documentary that others do not cover as well. If we do not embrace a different economic paradigm for the way humanity behaves in respect to each other and the biosphere on which we all depend, than the future is truly grim.

    • muertos says :

      The “Follow the Money” section of Thrive is wildly inaccurate, and suffers from the same defect of conspiracy-based garbage thinking as the rest of the film.

      I always want to ask the people who are evidently content to cherry-pick the assertions in the film: you’re perfectly OK with the makers of this movie lying to you, and pushing demonstrably false information as fact, so long as there is something else in the movie that you like? Really? That’s really OK with you? What makes you want to give this film, and its disingenuous makers, the benefit of the doubt on that score? If someone blatantly lies to you about subject X, why do you cut them slack on subject Y? You really find that acceptable? If so, why?

      • Levi Tarpley says :

        No disrespect intended but what is your point here? I can see that you think the “follow the money” section is false but where are the facts to back it up? Just because it was put into a “conspiracy” film does not instantly make it false. So do you believe that JFK was actually killed solely by Lee Harvey Oswald? We can definitively say there is plenty of evidence that he was not, as there is plenty of evidence concerning the worldwide monetary system and it’s historical corruption; check out a history book and put two and two together. One can not help but consider that monopolies never ended.

        Can you give not credit at all to any of the topics in this film? Will you continue to bash any conspiracy blindly? Really? The world is not completely understood, in many ways, why act like we know it all? There are plenty of conspiracies out there but this “follow the money” is something we should all AT LEAST consider. Subject “W”, “X”, “Y’, and “Z” are included in this film; it is intended to point out certain things about multiple topics. NO slack intended on any topic just observation of some more relevant information in the film.

      • muertos says :

        I again ask those of you who defend the Thrive movie to present a single specific instance of factual inaccuracy on this blog, together with evidence backing up your claim. I’ve asked that question time and time again and not a single defender of this film has ever done that. The response I usually get is stuff like, “But what do you really believe?” and “But my conspiracy theory is TRUE!” and, in some cases, accusations that I’m paid by the Rockefellers to run this blog–but never any actual concrete specifics on what I have supposedly gotten wrong.

        JFK is beside the point, but, believe it or not–and I know you do not–there isn’t a shred of evidence that Oswald acted in concert with anyone else. Not one. But don’t take my word for it; read Bugliosi’s book, which demolishes every single JFK conspiracy theory there is. http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-History-Assassination-President-Kennedy/dp/0393045250/

        I find it somewhat ironic that you tell me to “check out a history book and put two and two together.” I happen to teach history and am working on an advanced degree in it, so in point of fact I take this advice every day of my life. Guess what? I still don’t believe in paranoid conspiracy theories.

        You have not convinced me that you are unwilling to give the filmmakers a total pass on pushing demonstrably false information so long as they present another conspiracy theory that you happen to like and have been fooled into believing. The Thrive makers seem to have counted on precisely this effect: they offer up a smorgasbord of enough bizarre conspiracy theories to choke a horse, and then expect viewers to pick and choose from it like customers at a cafeteria. Unfortunately, reliable source material doesn’t work this way in the real world, because of something called credibility–something the Thrive movie sorely lacks.

  8. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    muertos,

    Their alleged “backing down” from this claim is really bogus. If anything, it’s a good PR strategy, where they can compartmentalize: i.e., claim responsiveness to criticism on one page of their website, but on another, they totally ignore the criticism.

    I just went to the THRIVE Facebook page
    http://www.facebook.com/ThriveMovement?sk=wall

    where the most recent entry on their Wall — made one hour ago — is a link to the main Thrive site to watch Nassim discuss the Flower of Life. Since it is simply a 2-minute excerpt from the movie, the “burned into the rock” claim is still there.

    THRIVE pioneer, Nassim Haramein, discusses the significance of the Flower of Life and its relation to the torus energy.

  9. marc says :

    This is not the design in his movie. This one is”http://www.blog.co.uk/media/photo/fol_abydos/5449571″

    if you are going to debunk his claims, at least follow some kind of accuracy.

    M

  10. marc says :

    Quoting muertos: “I again ask those of you who defend the Thrive movie to present a single specific instance of factual inaccuracy on this blog…”

    You are not showing the correct flower of life at the osarian temple. To say you are being factual and then mislead with an obviously carved depiction of the flower is an example of factual inaccuracy. The correct image is here:
    “http://data6.blog.de/media/571/5449571_59813b386c_m.jpeg”

    please dont claim to be all above the mudslinging when you are in fact just taking part.

    • muertos says :

      I am aware that the image of the “Flower of Life” shown on this page is not the selfsame one as the movie. I searched for a non-copyrighted version of the Abydos flower to use on this blog but could not find one, so I used this one instead. The exact image at issue doesn’t change the substance of the article.

      I strive to not use copyrighted images so as to avoid any potential abuse of DMCA.

      [EDIT] As another commenter also mentioned that this is not the same “Flower of Life” and directed me to a picture of the Abydos one that can be used without copyright issue, I’ve gone ahead and changed the picture.

      • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

        yo muertos!

        If you might just dismount your self-righteous DMCA high-horse, you would see that Marc has a very valid point. Indeed the Italian FOL image you used is quite misleading and I can’t believe that you did not find a non-copyrighted image of the Abydos FOL, especially when it appears on the wiki page for the Flower of Life, right below the photo you DID use! LOL!
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_of_Life

        Admittedly the wiki photo is poor quality but it is the actual burned-into-the-rock Abydos image that you could have used. However, I would suggest that the best image is the geometric sketch which shows the Flower of Life as it is actually used in THRIVE.

        This is a good time to address the history of the Flower of Life and why it is so important to Nassim Haramein and then to Foster Gamble. You see, the New Age origin of the Flower of Life leads back to probably the most successful American-born guru of the entire New Age movement, the one and only Drunvalo Melchizedek. (born as Bernie Perona in 1941. Check out http://www.drunvalo.org/ )

        Now you may have read that Nassim got this info on the Abydos FOL from Greg Braden, which is probably true, But Greg Braden got his information from Drunvalo, who has been teaching about this Flower of Life as a spiritual path for the past 40 years. I even heard about him 35 years ago when I lived in Austin, Texas and Drunvalo lived on his cosmic ranch in Wimberley, TX, just 40 miles SSW of Austin.

        Now check out what Drunvalo says about the Flower of Life and its spiritual importance. This is not just the symbol of free energy, it is the very religious spiritual foundation of the whole friggin’ movie THRIVE.

        —————-

        The Flower of Life is an ancient religious symbol of the sacred geometry (like “The Tree of Life” symbol in the Cabala), containing the encoded creation pattern for the fundamental forms of space and time – a graphical expression of the connections between all sentient beings, and with the life force itself.

        As a symbol of Sacred Geometry, the Flower of Life pattern is comprehensible only through intuitive approach, though it is a very pure and mathematically simple concept of harmony and symmetry.
        ————–

        Now from the following two sites, more about its spiritual importance and its discovery at Abydos

        http://www.floweroflife.org/toverview2.htm
        http://www.drunvalo.net/

        ——————–
        What is the Flower of Life symbol?

        The Flower of Life symbol is considered to be sacred among many cultures around the world, both ancient and modern. Within this symbol can be found all the building blocks of the universe that we call the Platonic Solids. The symbol can be used as a metaphor to illustrate the connectedness of all life and spirit within the universe.

        In the Flower of Life course, the Platonic Solids are studied as they relate to the human body and the nature of consciousness leading the student to not only an intellectual understanding of the universe, but an experiential awareness of “God” and a feeling of connection to All That Is.

        The Platonic Solids are important because they are found in the rudimentary construction of organic life, as well as music, language, and consciousness itself. In the Flower of Life workshop we show how these building blocks of life called the Platonic Solids serve as templates through which the foundation of all life everywhere can be expressed. Once this is understood, the importance of the Flower of Life becomes apparent as a totally integrated expression of “God” or “All That Is.”

        The Flower of Life is a universal template with many lenses. When placed over the face of a common or ordinary circle or sphere, the Flower of Life maps a window into the unity of infinity and turns the ordinary into a revelation of the extraordinary.

        Looking into the window of the Flower of Life challenges us to unify our mind, heart, and spirit. When we can truly see all life woven so intimately, we strengthen the embrace of the divine in our lives and we can transform our world through the vision of universal unity.

        ===================
        Where can the Flower of Life symbol be found?
        ==================

        The Flower of Life symbol can be found in various locations around the planet. No one knows for sure how old this symbol really is. We can get an approximate idea of a minimum age from the middle Osirian temple at Abydos, Egypt, where the symbol is found.

        The middle temple at Abydos is much lower in elevation than the other two temples. The temple was buried at the time the pharaoh Seti I was constructing the other two temples at Abydos. It is notably different in its construction. Utilizing large granite blocks and amazing precision, this temple is unlike any other Egyptian temple architecture except for the temple by the Sphinx.

        The FOL pattern was placed upon the granite siding of this temple. It was not carved into the granite. It seems to have been burned into the granite or somehow drawn on it with incredible precision.

        The FOL symbol has also been found in Masada Israel, Mount Sinai, and many temples in Japan and China. Recently it has been found in India and we heard a report that it was found in Spain as well.
        ===================

        Now check out his wiki entry.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunvalo_Melchizedek
        You see, Drunvalo has already succeeded in creating a free energy device, but it is not mechanical. It is the very human being itself that taps into this Mer-Ka-Ba energy. Notice how the counter-rotating interlocking tetrahedrons will generate the flower of life form as a standing wave pattern spinning at 90% the speed of light. (Hey, that’s 160,000 miles per second.)

        ———————————

        Drunvalo describes Merkaba meditation as creating a 55-foot-wide (17 m) energy field around the body with two counter-rotating tetrahedrons spinning at about 90% of the speed of light. Drunvalo writes that the energy from the Merkaba field is strong enough that it has routinely set off radars and electromagnetic monitoring equipment resulting in visits from helicopters sent to investigate in the middle of his workshops.[3] He describes how he and groups he has worked with have been able to amplify intention through their Merkaba fields and for example create clean air for several miles around them, visible in the skies above them, by the ring of polluted air beyond.

      • muertos says :

        Thanks for giving me a heads-up to the better image. I’ll go ahead and change it. Also thanks for the background on the Flower of Life presented here. It’s very illuminating. The more I learn about the New Age symbols incorporated into Thrive, the more certain I become that the movie is primarily intended as a New Age religious document.

  11. thesustainableme says :

    The movie claims that there is almost “no other writing” at the Osirian Temple. Actually, there is quite a bit. Check out the pictures at Egypt’s official tourist site. :) http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/taharqat.htm

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