Another Negative Review of Thrive Hits the Nail on the Head

More than two months after its release, Thrive is still struggling to command any significant positive attention in mainstream circles. As I pointed out not long ago, the film has placed itself in a difficult niche: by its reliance on conspiracy theories it becomes toxic to the mainstream, but even many hard-core conspiracy theorists do not trust it because of Foster Gamble’s corporate associations and the ridiculous delusions that its imagery, especially its promotional poster, is “NWO occult symbolism.”

The film’s search for mainstream acceptance was dealt yet another blow a few weeks ago with a scathing review posted on the award-winning UK green/sustainability blog Transition Culture, one of the most widely read environmental blogs in Britain. TC’s founder, Rob Hopkins, lectures and blogs about topics regarding peak oil and the transition from our current unsustainable energy practices to more locally-oriented and eco-friendly solutions. Far from being a sympathetic audience to Thrive, Mr. Hopkins savaged the film, and for many of the same reasons I criticize it on this blog: its factual inaccuracies, its promotion of conspiracy theories, and its pandering to New Age sensibilities largely divorced from positive real-world solutions to the problems it purports to respond to.

“What do you do when you are the heir to the Proctor and Gamble fortune and you have spent years surrounding yourself with new agey thinking and conspiracy theories?  You make a film like ‘Thrive‘, the latest conspiracy theory movie that is popping up all over the place.  I’ve lost count of the number of people who have asked me “have you seen ‘Thrive’?”  Well I have now, and, to be frank, it’s dangerous tosh which deserves little other than our derision.  It is also a very useful opportunity to look at a worldview which, according to Georgia Kelly writing at Huffington Post, masks “a reactionary, libertarian political agenda that stands in jarring contrast with the soothing tone of the presentation”.

Mr. Hopkins is especially critical of Thrive maker Foster Gamble’s questionable approach to evidence and reasoning. He writes:

“Visually the film is like some kind of Star Trek fan movie crossed with a National Geographic wildlife film, and is largely built around Gamble’s own years of ‘research’ into the question of what it is that “stops life on earth from thriving”.  A reasonable question to ask, but his approach can hardly be called ‘research’ due to the low standards he accepts as ‘evidence’ and his all-round lack of critical analysis.  His research, such as it is, is cherry-picked to deepen and support his established worldview, rather than the worldview being built from a careful analysis of the evidence.  As we’ll see, this is a dangerous foundation.”

Taking the film’s major arguments in turn, Mr. Hopkins reaches largely the same conclusions that we have here at Thrive Debunked. Regarding free energy machines, Mr. Hopkins raises precisely the same point that our contributors have repeatedly raised, most notably in an article involving Adam Trombly:

“[A]ll we are offered as evidence is some grainy film of machines that could be anything doing anything, and some smart computer graphics of spinning torus shapes. If this amazing breakthrough that would rewrite science and win Nobel Prizes for anyone involved were actually a reality, and if you were going to spend huge amounts to make a film to argue for their existence which you would then put out into the public arena, surely you would get a working model of such a device into the studio with some impartial scientists to verify it in operation?  If they actually exist, and actually work, then this wouldn’t be a big challenge surely?”

A lot of Thrive supporters have come to this blog to argue that “free energy” is real. I almost always have the same point: show me the evidence! And Adam Trombly’s website, or a YouTube video supposedly depicting “free energy” machines, does not constitute evidence. By evidence I mean, show the machine to somebody reputable who can replicate it and verify that it actually works. This is precisely the point that Transition Culture is making.

Mr. Hopkins then takes Thrive to task for training a fire hose of conspiracy nonsense directly at the audience:

“Then we are bombarded with the full range of conspiracy thinking.  9/11 was an inside job, there is a conspiracy to suppress natural medicines, “Big Brother’s not coming, it’s already here”, we are one step away from a “military dictatorship”, a climate treaty in Copenhagen would have been “a tax base for tyranny”, there are ‘chemtrails’ in the sky to deliberately poison us, there is a deliberate attempt to reduce the world’s population underway, there is only a cancer epidemic because all the cures have been suppressed, etc, etc…

Gamble wheels out the classic conspiracy theorists’ gambit, “could I be wrong?  Perhaps.  But what if I’m not?”  No, you are wrong.  And even if you were right, you have presented us with so little evidence to back up you claims that you would have no way of knowing whether you were right or not.”

This again strongly supports the point we’ve been making here. The main function of Thrive, as I recently detailed toward the end of this entry, seems to be to account for the reason why New Age concepts such as “free energy” have not transformed the world into a magical utopia. The reason? Evil conspirators are preventing it from happening. Conspiracy theories are not the whole game for Thrive, but they’re a major part of it.

Mr. Hopkins’s ultimate indictment of Thrive has also been echoed on this blog: that the movie diverts attention from real issues, such as anthropogenic climate change, and instead urges its audience to hate imaginary bogeymen and focus its actions on bringing them down. He says:

“‘Thrive’ is dangerous because it invites us to put our faith for the future in a fantasy.  A fantasy that free energy is possible, a fantasy that the only thing that is preventing us from creating a benign and enlightened society is a handful of powerful families….

It’s not about ‘free energy’, it’s about learning to appreciate what a precious thing energy is and learning to live well with less of it.  It’s not about ‘no involuntary taxation’, it’s about taxes that disincentivise the things that are narrowing our future options, and incentivising the things we need to get in place urgently.  It’s not about ‘no government’, it’s about truly democratic government using its considerable powers to build resilience, decarbonise society, shift the collective focus.  The few countries in the world that are actually seriously engaging with the climate issue are those with stronger government, not weaker government.”

I agree completely with these statements. I believe anthropogenic climate change is the most serious issue facing the world today. The makers of Thrive don’t even believe that anthropogenic climate change is happening! How can they even pretend to address this problem when they refuse to accept that it exists? “Free energy” is not the answer, because “free energy” does not exist. Better energy is the answer, and we know that exists because many people, companies and government agencies in numerous countries are out there developing it right now. We will not kick the fossil fuel habit overnight, but we need to begin a transition to cleaner, more renewable energy. This technology will not drop out of the sky, handed to us on a silver platter from bug-eyed aliens. It will be human beings—research labs, some corporate, some private, universities and think tanks, as well as NGOs—that create these solutions. Given the serious lack of faith that Foster Gamble and the other makers of the film seem to have in the ability of human beings to accomplish great things, I remain skeptical that Thrive offers any real solutions. It is, in short, part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I recommend reading the full review.

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91 responses to “Another Negative Review of Thrive Hits the Nail on the Head”

  1. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    muertos,

    I will be commenting after this note — indeed I am going to post a response I just got today from Foster Gamble himself about Rob Hopkins’ review — but first I need to put on my grammarian hat and critique your title.

    I understand what you mean by “bad review,” but to someone arriving totally new here, there is an ambiguity in the title: which is bad? the review of the movie or the movie itself?

    To clear it up, I would suggest:

    Another Critical Review of Thrive Hits the Nail on the Head

    or else

    Another Review Critical of Thrive Hits the Nail on the Head

    or to honor the fact that the review appears on a blog in the UK

    Another Spot On Bad Review of Thrive

  2. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    The last time I read Georgia Kelly’s HuffPo article deconstructing THRIVE, there were 18 comments. Now there are 47. I especially like the 7 comments by Ben Boyce, which are gathered together here.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Ben_Boyce?action=comments

  3. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Muertos,

    I don’t know if I mentioned this before, but I have known Foster Gamble personally for the last 30 years. The person who brought us together in 1981 was Arthur M. Young (1905-1995), the inventor of the Bell-47 helicopter (the ones you see on M*A*S*H.) and the man who inspired Foster with the torus concept for free energy. (You can see Arthur test flying in his prototype helicopter for about 5-6 seconds in the movie at the 00:10:25 mark.)

    I have been moderator of the Arthur Young Yahoo group since 1999 and Foster has posted about 50 times there, most of them in the 1999-2003 period – once in 1999 where he tries to defend Nassim Haramein from a scathing professional physicist — and the rest in fall 2011 when he announced the screening of THRIVE. I started lowering the boom on him back in September so you might be interested in reading the whole forum, especially since you are a history teacher and it gives you a glimpse into the early history of THRIVE.

    So I urge you and others reading here to subscribe to the Yahoo group because I have been periodically raking Foster over the coals there since September of last year.

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arthur/

    (After you click on [Join This Group], I suggest down at Step 2, [Options] clicking on the option: “Web Only. I’ll read messages on the web” That way, you don’t get your mailbox cluttered up and you can treat the forum like any other website you visit.)

    Next comment I will post what Foster put up on the Arthur Young forum where he responds to Rob Hopkins’ review as a way to keep on needling me.

  4. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Here is my post to the Arthur Young forum about Rob Hopkins’ review and then the response by Foster Gamble.

    [NOTE: for those who may not understand the Nyuck! reference at the end, it is the signal Gotcha! expression of Curley of the 3 Stooges. You can view a 5 second clip here:

    =======================

    Subject: Leading UK Environmentalist slams THRIVE!

    Foster,

    You’ve incurred the wrath of one of the UK’s leading environmentalists. His name is Rob Hopkins, winner of the 2008 Schumacher Award for his founding of the Transition Network.

    ———————————

    [I then give the links and post 3 excerpts as you did]

    ———————————

    All right, Foster, I will be interested to see how you “Aikido” your way out of this attack from “across the pond.”

    Aikido you not!!! :=))) Nyuck! Nyuck! Nyuck!

    Tom

    ==========

    Response from Foster Gamble:

    —————–

    Tom,

    I can see why you were drawn to this negative review, because like your posts it is devoid of any substantive engagement with the facts, coherence and solutions presented in THRIVE.

    If you read the comments below the review on his site, even many of his own followers — at least of the ones who actually watched the film — keelhauled him for the same.

    THRIVE has enjoyed over 95% rave reviews, being seen by about 2 million people in a little over 2 months.

    There have been almost 3,000 self created home and public screenings all over the world and THRIVE solutions groups are forming and taking action in cities, states and countries as well.

    I have sent you samplings of the appreciations and inspiration that most people are experiencing.

    I have asked you specific questions both publicly on this forum and privately as well — to which there has been not a peep from you. And yet you keep scavenging for the occasional substance-less drivel to post for this group. Maybe if you want to encourage a real forum instead of stifling it with your attempts at infection, you could take this opportunity to actually engage genuinely as yourself?

    So Tom, have you watched THRIVE all the way through?

    If so, what do you make of the messages — on the fundamental pattern, on the Global Domination Agenda and on the possible Solutions?

    I am really not looking for more empty wit — commenting on my shirt, my tone, the special effects etc. We are on the verge of global economic collapse, another war and an impending police state.

    Please go to the heart of the matter for once and show us what kind of forum you would really like to see here. Please tell us what is really going on for you about all of this.

    Thanks,

    Foster

    ==============================

    • muertos says :

      Thanks for posting this. It’s very interesting!

    • aqeela says :

      Thanks Foster for your leadership!

    • Joe says :

      Foster, You have to forgive those who are ignorant of what’s really happening in this world and who the driving forces are behind the ills of the world. When you present people with an ugly truth, it’s going to be hard for them to accept it. They are living in the Matrix. I haven’t been able to view all of the film, but will, tonight. I find it intriging, as I’ve know much of the information you’re presenting. So, presently, I can’t tell you I’m giving you a 100% thumbs up, but I see where you area going. The question is, what can be done about any of this? To the NWO, we are little more than piss ants. Truly, in this case, ignorance might be bliss.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        The New World Order does not exist. Wake up. Stop claiming that everything is a conspiracy. Get out of the Matrix and acknowledge the real problems of the world, which are caused by libertarians like Ron Paul. We are near a financial collapse because of his austerity proposals that are being adopted, and his anti-Israel policy will likely cause another war with Iran. Truly in your case, ignorance might be bliss.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        Just a note: I did not seriously mean that libertarianism is the sole cause of our problems, nor was I seriously claiming that Ron Paul is trying to get Iran into a war. I was, however, mocking the tone of conspiracy theorists. I hope Muertos and the others here found the post amusing.

    • Mr. Anon says :

      Just for the record, Gamble’s claim that Thrive has gotten “95% favorable reviews” is FALSE. Just look at http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/thrive/ for a simple disproof.

    • Joe America says :

      Foster,

      Your movie is gutsy and gets right down to the point of why we’re at the point we are, today, financially and militarily. However, the fact is that we’ve already had our assess handed to us. I think the average person has no ability to understand what’s happening, and they are the majority. The NWO knows this and they’ve helped to foster the dumbing down of America for decades, beginning with the creation of The Department of Education by Jimmy Carter, who is an NWO shill. This “dumbing down” has been very successful, as it plays to the human weakness of laziness (sloth). People have been mezermized by the new colluseum, which is mass media entertainment of all kinds, whether it be games, movies, television, people have become Zomies. For these people, Foster, there will be no awakening. When the store shelves become empty, they will turn on each other like wild beasts. Martial law will follow and the FEMA camps will be full. You mean well, you’re right, but too late. Our fate is sealed. Sadly, we will have the learn the lessons through hard knocks. One weakness of Americans is that we are too complacent. We have to really get the shit knocked out of us, before we rise to the occasion. That’s what it’s going to take, a real ass kicking.

      Joe America

      • Art Martin says :

        “When the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again.”
        — Edith Hamilton
        America is the new Athens, and just like Athens, there’s no reversing the apathy.
        You’re absolutely right, Joe America, most Americans are Zombies. Most Americans don’t even have a DESIRE for the truth.

  5. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Ben Boyce is part of the Praxis Peace Institute that Georgia Kelly directs.

    http://www.praxispeace.org

    I wrote to her and Ben today and Georgia replied saying that by Monday or even earlier, they will be publishing in PDF a 50-page booklet debunking “Thrive” and libertarianism.

    • Joe America says :

      You know, libertarianism and thrive really have nothing to do with each other. Thrive is a new age attempt to wake people up to the fact that the NWO exist and that it’s, financially, taking us down the toilet. I think you’re giving Foster more publicity. If you really want his efforts to fail, simply ignore his movie. But, you’re just not that smart, are you? So, just keep yacking and postulating and the more you do it, the more people will watch and be moved by his movie. Foster should be sending you roses with a note of thanks.

  6. Rob Hopkins says :

    As the person who wrote the review that Muertos mentions here in his piece, I’d like to respond to Mr Gamble’s ‘statement’ regarding my review. Mr Gamble writes that my review failed to contain “any substantive engagement with the facts, coherence and solutions”. Yet my piece picked up on a number of specific elements of the film and questioned them, such as if free energy devices are viable and scaleable no independently tested working model was shown in the film, why no credible evidence is produced for most of the film’s claims, and also shared my deep alarm at the neo-liberal political agenda that runs through the film, which, if implemented, would result in a world where the wealthy few, such as Mr Gamble, would thrive, but the rest of us would be plunged into a Dickensian dystopia.

    Mr Gamble states that my review doesn’t contain “any substantive engagement with the facts, coherence and solutions”, yet his statement, which I’ve been eagerly anticipating since Tom mentioned it was impending a couple of days ago, contains no actual responses to anything I wrote. At all. The fact that some people like the film is no defence of it! If only constructing a credible evidence-based case was that easy!

    Mr Gamble’s ‘statement’ is in no way a response to what I wrote. It would better serve this discussion if Mr Gamble were to actually pull out some points from my review where I criticise the lack of evidence he provides to claims that would destroy the laws of physics and rewrite science, and actually provide some credible, peer-review evidence to back them up. It’s hardly a radical ask, most people would have gathered that before releasing the film, rather than afterwards.

    • muertos says :

      Rob, thanks so much for chiming in personally with your thoughts. I agree that Mr. Gamble’s response to your review is totally inadequate and very misleading.

      To my knowledge there has been no substantive response from Mr. Gamble or anyone else connected with Thrive to the criticisms raised on this blog either, which as I mention in the main article closely echo questions raised in your review. I’d like to see a real response from the Thrive people that engages with these sorts of criticisms. I’m doubtful we will ever see one, however.

  7. Cameron Parrish says :

    Critics of this film are in denial of some key issues. But they need not accept them all. If they will only find the courage to recognize the evidence that the Earth is indeed being visited by extraterrestrials , then other things will begin to make more sense. 

    • muertos says :

      “Evidence that the Earth is indeed being visited by extraterrestrials…”

      Such as? Please be specific.

    • panthervariable says :

      Yes, now it actually does make much much more sense. By sheer dint of observation combines with that fact, I know can see that conspiracy theorists are apparently the subject of alien research to try to understand the depth of human gullibility and paranoia. I strongly object to this unethical experimentation, it affects my quality of life by having to listen to their (the conspiracy theorists) nonsense! And the probably unintended affect it might have on policy is downright depressing.

  8. Professor Pious says :

    John Michael Greer, who has written extensively on post-peak oil issues, had an interesting take on Thrive in a recent blog post. Here’s a short excerpt, but it’s worth reading the entire essay for proper context:

    “The second response to the recognition that the narrative of progress has failed is to rehash it over again in an even more extreme form. The poster child for this second option just now is a video titled Thrive, which is doing the rounds in the alternative scene as I write this. Those of my readers who are connoisseurs of meretricious nonsense may find it of interest, but I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone else; we will all be hearing far too much like it over the years to come.

    The basic message of Thrive is that we all ought to be living in a wonderful Utopian world, and would be doing so if evil corporate conspiracies weren’t suppressing the inventions that would have given us limitless free energy, cures for cancer and, well, pretty much anything else your heart desires. Evidence? We don’t need no steenking evidence—and of course, in an entirely pragmatic sense, Thrive doesn’t; all it has to do is hammer over and over again on a set of emotional hot buttons until the viewer’s ability to reason is overwhelmed, and if the video fails at this, it’s certainly not for want of trying.”

    Greer’s full essay can be found here:

    http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2012/01/blood-of-earth-or-pulp-nonfiction.html

  9. Rob Hopkins says :

    I was thinking about ‘Thrive’ last night (my teenage son was telling me how much his friends liked it), and a thought occurred to me. I wonder if Mr Gamble might explain to me, if it is the case that the ‘Flower of Life’ pattern, which is supposedly this universal constant, this pattern which ancient peoples all knew about and handed down to us because it modelled how to create free energy, how come none of them had free energy? Did extraterrestrials come to earth and say “here is a pattern, it is the key to unlimited free energy, hold onto it, it’ll come in handy to people in about 4,000 years who will be able to make fancy computer graphics from it and figure out how to turn it into unlimited energy”? “We’ll burn it onto this temple while we’re here, because it’s THAT important”.

    Yet there is no evidence that ancient civilisations had electric lights, cars, heating etc etc. So we are meant to believe that people carefully passed this down from generation to generation, wove it into their art and culture, but knowing it was useless to them, but presumably did it with a deep selflessness assuming that in thousands of years time we would figure it out? What use was it to them? None at all. They sat round the oil lamps and open fires, walked and carried things on donkeyback for millenia, while all around them was the key to unlimited free energy? Surely for us to assume that they did that all for us, now, is hugely self-centred and egotistical, and puts us at the centre of the universe? The idea that ancient peoples knew it was a key to unlimited energy, yet never developed any energy systems at all, is surely somewhat indicative that the whole thing is a nonsense?

    • aqeela says :

      Mr. Hopkins,

      Are you really serious with these questions? or is someone paying you to say these simple idiotic statements. Ancient Civilization had no electric light, air crafts or heating??? Where do you live, in a cave. How do you think they built the Pyramids, with shovels and hoes? If you think that this euro-centric world view that you hold is the truth, then you are sadly mistaken. Do some research sir. The Ancients had Aircrafts, Space-crafts, Ocean Vessels, Heating, Electricity, Lasers, etc…everything we know, we STOLE from them and claim it as technology that we invented.

      For someone like you to be so well educated and ignorant is a shame. You are a victim of your limited world view. I bet you still believe that the world is flat and Egypt is in the middle east..lol!!! You should listen to your Son he has something to teach you about humility.

      • muertos says :

        Wait a minute, did you just claim that ancient peoples had spacecraft, airplanes, electricity and lasers?

        Wow. Just…wow. I’m speechless. This has got to be the strangest comment I have ever received on this blog.

      • The Locke says :

        WTF???

        What evidence do you have that ancient people had all these things? More importantly what evidence do you that he is being paid to say this stuff?

        In fact, how do we know that you aren’t a paid dis-information agent of Foster Gamble?

      • anticultist says :

        LOL Aqeela is one crazy mofo

      • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

        LOL Aqeela is one crazy mofo

        LOL indeed, anticultist, you snide eurocentric racist, you! I’d be careful who I call a mofo around here, especially since aqeela is a former Crips gang banger from Watts in South Central LA. Lucky for you he’s a man of peace now. Did you catch his interview in the movie THRIVE? Here you can read about him as one of Foster Gamble’s Pioneers of Justice.

        http://www.thrivemovement.com/pioneer?article_id=954&article_title=Aqeela%20Sherrills

        I’ll leave it to aqeela to elaborate, but he raises an interesting point that you and your fellow skeptics are loathe to consider — that your vaunted rational Western Eurocentric science is actually a form of scientific racism, since it was stolen from the original Africans.

        Look, anticultist, I admit to being just as racist as you are, but not to worry, aqeela accepts all that as given. After all, aqeela thanked Foster Gamble for his leadership, so there’s hope for us white people. And, Great Caesar’s Ghost, what better example of white eurocentric privilege could there be around here than Foster Gamble, born with that imperialistic Caucasian “silver spoon” in his mouth?

      • anticultist says :

        Erm… not sure why you are going off on a racist rant , but if that is what takes your fancy so be it. I have no need to defend myself from not being one LOL, if I was one I would probably be proud of it and go guns blazing about it directly, fact is I don’t so that which should be enough to tell you I am not.

        ha ha wow it makes me laugh how these crazy fucks use anything they can to try to have some moral high ground, you can’t even point out how irrational and insane they are without them playing politically correct cards and trying to change the topic of the debate.

        fact of the matter is you new age woo believers and alien crop circle lovers are wrong and you have no evidence, you are also fairly crazy especially when you take a read of some of the things you have all claimed and believed.

      • anticultist says :

        BTW Tom, just clicked your link and seen he was black, I didn’t even know who this aqeela dude was or if he was black, as far as I knew it could have been a white woman with the name aqeela.

        Nice try on the racist slur though buddy, try again.

      • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

        OK, a-c, now that you know aqeela is a black dude, then let us both agree to refrain from discussing our our respective PERSONAL racist issues and address aqeela’s concern which is the INSTITUTIONAL racism of white eurocentric science and its history.

      • aqeela says :

        ok all you crazies that need physical evidence to prove everything: check out the Piri Reis Map that first proves that civilization existed before western “discovery”….

        second, google and read this article that i cut a pasted from a longer article below. Even though i believe it to comes from a euro-centric perspective (any information that africans could have been remotely intelligent is always challenged by those who colonized them)….October 2, 2009 (ADDIS ABABA) — A group of scientists have found a 4.4 million years old human ancestor in Ethiopia’s remote Afar area….people we’ve been “intelligent” being on this plant for a long long time!

        Third, The ancient egyptians knowledge of science, astronomy and mathematic far exceed ours yet we call them primitive???…….we still are speculating on how they built the pyramids…below i pasted some real science for its construction..

        Take the height of the pyramidion, multiply it by the height of the whole pyramid, multiply the total by ten to the fifth, and we obtain the circumference of the earth. What’s more, if you multiply the perimeter of the base by twenty-four to the third divided by two, you get the earth’s radius. Further, the area of the base of the pyramid multiplied by ninety-six times ten to the eighth gives us one hundred ninety-six million eight hundred and ten thousand square miles, which is the surface area of the earth.

        How could a people with this level of sophistication not know anything about electricity, space travel, and ocean travel??? you just gotta be ignorant to ignore all of these fact or you just dont have the capacity to think beyond what you’ve been told…

        we can “believe” that Jesus rose from the dead (even though science cannot prove that this is humanly possible) yet we question the physical structures that is a testament to ancient Africa’s technological advancement…

        again i say, we are victims of our own arrogance and superiority complex!
        heres a few other thing to read–reknown egyptologist Dr. Ben

        raceandhistory.com – Dr. Yosef A.A. ben-jochannan

        and finally, if you’ve never heard of Imhotep—you have him to thank for medicine, science, etc…

        Egypt: Imhotep, Doctor, Architect, High Priest, Scribe and Vizier to …
        http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/imhotep.htm

        do some studying folks:-).

      • anticultist says :

        “check out the Piri Reis Map that first proves that civilization existed before western “discovery”….”

        No one is disputing that black people had understandings of certain principles at the same time or even before other cultures Aqeela, at least no one here is claiming that the tribal ancestors were stupid or uneducated in certain topics. Although where we draw the line is giving them high technology and academic principles that exist today, there are simply no proven remnants of such matters. Neither in writing nor in artifacts. You may try and utilise hind sight in attempting to explain ancient cultures from the perspective of a scientific mind, you might also look at them from the perspective of an intelligent yet unsophisticated culture in comparison to ours. Th fact of the matter is there is no evidence to support your claims of high technology, not a single item of technology can be fond in any ancient civilisation that compares to ours, and there should be if your claims are real, which they are not.

        Now you may pull out the usual trophy artifacts that most ancient astronaut theorists pull out and apply your own interpretation to their design and function, and you would only be another in a long line of predecessors who all made the mistake wishful thinking. Every one of these claims has been shown to be moot and of little consequence to the reality of archaeology, history and actual artifacts that have been dug up.

        Now let me pull you up on your so called evidence and claims we should “do research”, a fairly typical trope from conspiracy theorists might I add. In light of your arrogance I will be the one to at least try to knock you down a few pegs in your self belief.

        Your suggestion of the Piri Reis map showing Antarctica long before we knew about it is a claim easily debunked and discredited online by many scholars, so truthfully you should do the research because a video showing the outline of a drawing on a map being stretched and warped to fit modern Antarctica under the ice is extremely nonacademic.

        I certainly do not believe in Jesus rising from the dead, and neither do I believe the Egyptians had technology, flight or space travel, all these notions are ridiculous to me.

        Now it is certainly possible that they or other equally intelligent societies in South America and the rest of the world understood the concept of the Earth being spherical, they likely understood a fair bit about the stars and the rotations of it, and they may have even understood the idea of precession which is a distinctly sophisticated concept and one only understood from a long time of watching the skies, something which human beings have had the chance to do over the 50,000 -70,000 years we have had communication.

        All your other claims about Egypt are just numbers and hindsight claims about details of the buildings, which you claim the Egyptains were aware about yet they did not put these details down in writings or were they part of their intellectual history.

        No… you claim this is so by doing the calculations from the perspective of a modern person claiming this is inherently a design feature, yet you have no evidence to back up your claim, you only have your modern perspective to say this is so.

        No one is calling ancient people stupid here, but no one would b as foolish to claim they had the means to travel the skies, in space, or had high technology and medicine equivalent to modern life. The fact remains their bones show this to be untrue, they lived shorter lives, had injuries that were not expertly treat, and they have no modern cities or technology left behind for any of us to see,neither in writing, artifacts or in their records.

        You have presented nothing of value, and if you really want to know how how the pyramids were built, try looking a little closer to Earth, hard work, lots of time and some engineering ingenuity. Something which human beings have been proven to be capable of across the world for many thousands of years in all cultures.

      • panthervariable says :

        So if I was born 8000 years ago I could have my own flying ship? Sweet, but I guess like the saying goes, “They don’t build ‘em like they used to.”

        hahahahaha

  10. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Georgia Kelly delivers on her promise to publish a 55 page pamphlet deconstructing THRIVE

    http://www.praxispeace.org/pdf/DL_020612.pdf

    Deconstructing Libertarianism
    A Critique Prompted by the film Thrive

    A Project of the Praxis Think Tank

    Edited by Georgia Kelly

    TABLE OF CONTENTS

    Why is Praxis Peace Institute Publishing this Pamphlet? …. Page 3

    Deconstructing the Political Agenda Behind Thrive by Georgia Kelly ….. Page 4

    Some Reflections on Thrive by Dan Drasin ….. Page 10

    Challenging the Hidden Ideological Underbelly of Thrive by Ben Boyce… Pg 14

    The Ethical Incoherence at the Heart of Thrive by Gus diZerega ….. Page 17

    Critique of the Movie, Thrive by Benjamin N. Colby …… Page 29

    • muertos says :

      I’ve read Georgia Kelly’s pamphlet. It seems mainly aimed at making a political statement and refuting the libertarian viewpoint in general. I’m certainly no fan of libertarianism, and I agree with a lot of what she says to critique it, but I don’t really consider this pamphlet a real debunking of Thrive. She and the pamphlet’s other authors don’t really deal very deeply with the conspiracy aspects of the film. Certainly it’s useful in identifying the political agenda behind the movie, but I’d classify the pamphlet as primarily a political document.

      Thanks for posting the link here.

  11. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    muertos,

    I just put this notification on my Arthur Young Yahoo forum where Foster hangs out. He usually responds pretty quickly to me there.

    Tom

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Subject: Praxis Peace Institute Carpet Bombs THRIVE!
    ——————————————–

    INCOMING!!! WATCH OUT FOSTER!!! INCOMING!!!

    Better put up your free energy force fields, Foster! But just in case they’re not working, you better just dive yo sorry libertarian ass under the Torus Table and cringe as all these anti-libertarian bombs from General Georgia Kelly of the Praxis Peace Institute fall in a carpeting sequence upon your glorious THRIVE movie. 55 pages in all!

    Ka-Pow!!! Ba-Ba-Booommm!!!!
    EEEEEEEEE_yyyyowwwww!!!
    Ba-Boooommmmm!!!!

    ==========================

    [TITLE and TOC]

    =========================

    Foster, when the coast is clear, do come out and mosey on down to muertos’ THRIVE-Debunked blog where a spirited discussion is now and has been taking place for the past few weeks about your wild and crazy movie.

    http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/

    I can understand if you chicken out, but then send Kimberly in or dispatch a few of your trusted and argumentative — not to mention judgmental —- Thriving minions and/or underlings to see if they can repudiate, I mean refudiate, the many challenges that Georgia, muertos and a few other dedicated Non-Thrivers have made for you.

    Tom Gedeiher
    (that’s German for “Thriver.”)

  12. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Remember back on Jan. 30, Foster Gamble was going to have this expensive conversation with Daniel Pinchbeck, the Entheogen Master of the Reality Sandwich blog. They were charging $20 a head for the privilege of listening in.

    http://www.realitysandwich.com/how_to_thrive

    How To Thrive: A Conversation Between Daniel Pinchbeck and Director Foster Gamble

    So far, I can’t find any video/audio or even a transcript of the conversation anywhere on the site, but I did enjoy this comment by Linda B posted 5 days before the event:

    So you want me to pay to listen to Daniel entertain Foster Gamble? This cheapens Reality Sandwich imho. Didn’t Eisenstein already illustrate the horrible flaws in this silly movie? If we’re going to take Reality Sandwich seriously it needs to not scrape the barrel in this fashion. Is this the way that Reality Sandwich is going to check out? Lame.

  13. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Evolver.net is a spinoff of the Reality Sandwich Mother-ship and there I found this unhappy camper over the Pinchbeck-Gamble conversation. I copy the opening below and I also plugged your blog and Georgia’s pamphlet.

    http://www.evolver.net/user/deniz/blog/youve_got_be_kidding_sorry_thrive_load_crap

    You’ve got to be kidding — sorry, but ‘Thrive’ is a load of crap

    So, apparently “Evolver Intensives” (already suspiciously money-driven, with its so-called spiritual offerings) is now hosting Foster Gamble, to give you hope for a future of green, unlimited energy. Yep, you can sit back in your armchairs and relax guys–the UFOs with their torus-wisdom are going to save us any day now…

    As dismayed as I was that people were buying into ridiculous conspiracy theories over the years, the mindless self-indulgence that typifies the fawning over ‘Thrive’ is simply maddening. This latest in the “movement” films posists–get this–that the principles that can give us free energy devices are known and that the technology is just around the corner!

    It speaks to the degree with which so many people I see indulged in “spiritual” life quests have buried their heads so deeply into the ground that they lack the most basic critical faculties to recognize the obviously ridiculous.
    If the average person can’t immediately see how this film is totally nuts, we’re doomed. Its nonsensical nature is so evident, even on the surface, let alone after careful thinking. Is it really so hard to believe that Mr. Gamble is a charlatan, merely a self-interested sweet-talker, who tells you exactly what you’ve been waiting to hear?

  14. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    I swear to God or the Higgs Boson, muertos, this really just happened!

    As soon as I had hit the [Post Comment] button for the above comment, I suddenly looked left at my digital clock and the time was 11:11

    Aikido you not!!!!

  15. aqeela says :

    Author: aqeela
    Comment:
    I read this silly article and know Georgia Kelly personally….Uh these folks
    (Rob and Georgia) are ego maniacs and totally disconnected from themselves. If you know Foster and Kimberly, then you know people who walk there talk. More than i can say for the aforementioned (Georgia). I dont know Rob, but by reading his analysis of the film, i can read into his entitled, elitist views.
    I dont put to much into science because what passes as “scientific” in this
    culture is simple and RACIST! I know you think im playing the “Race Card” but,
    fortunately for me im not paternalistic and dont give a damn:-)…here is my
    case and point.. White people are called “Caucasian” because Johann Friedrich Blumenbach (1752- 1840), an influential German scholar in an up-and-coming German university, chose the name on 11 April 1795 in Göttingen, Lower Saxony, in what would become Germany. Blumenbach’s and Göttingen’s scholarly prestige made Caucasian a “scientific” classification. The term “Caucasian” quickly entered scientific discourse, appearing first
    in English in an 1807 translation of Blumenbach’s Handbuch der vergleichenden Anatomie (A Short System of Comparative Anatomy) by the influential English surgeon William Lawrence (1783-1867)…”science” has become a social construct used by folks for there own selfish interest and gain.

    if you are going to question the scientific investigation of Foster then you need to also question your own. Whats the basis for your disagreement? You say that these free energy devices dont exist, then why where all of these people killed and discredited? I bet you think that key leaders during the civil rights era (Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Medger Evers, Fred Hampton, etc) were assassinated by individuals and not a conspiracy to undermine black leadership? Have you ever heard of COIN-TEL Pro? Do you really think that government is not controlled by powerful individuals (J. Edgar Hoover in the case suppressing black leadership) is not suppressing a cultural and scientific evolution? You must live in a bubble or something. I bet you believed that Iraq had WMD too huh? WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!

    Who is more “scientifically” correct than the next? as a conspiracy analyst, I tend to believe what resonates with my intuitive knowing as true….another point, “Scientist” say that gravity has no opposite, what about levity? We cant just believe everything that the ruling class says folks, they are self serving and influence all MAJOR institutions with there money as Foster pointed out in the film. I think that those who have the most to say are angry that Foster exposed the game.

    The genius of this film is that Foster was raised in this ruling class and is challenging the belief systems that he was suppose to just go along with. He also qualifies and backs up all that he says in the film, check the website. whether you accept his research or not depends on your conditioning and excepted belief systems….i challenge you peek behind the veil of your own social/philosophical world view, you might surprise yourself. Ill end on this Rob, “permaculture” was the original way in which indigenous people (both African and Native American) operated for millenia, way before “western science” knew how to tie its own shoes. Now, “living systems” which was the corner stone of how we lived has been appropriated by western civilization and people are running around talking as if they invented it! check your ego.

    • panthervariable says :

      Way to conflate “race science” (bullshit racist apologism that it is) to all other science. Formally I believe that is called a “Faulty Generalization.”

      As for your statement about permaculture and Indians (or if you prefer the more problematic term, “Native American”), that’s not entirely true. There were a number of types of agriculture practiced here pre-Invasion, not all of them sustainable, much less permaculture. Of course, in the modern day, permaculture has tried to learn from effective TEK to reintegrate sustainable ways of living in modern, Westernized culture.

  16. aqeela says :

    Ok, one other thing…this simpleton (Yes, Im speaking of Rob Hopkins) is asking to show him the free-energy device if they actually exist….did you see the film? THEY KILLED AND DISCREDITED ANYONE WHO SHOWED THEM “THE DEVICE” don’t be stupid. You dont think that oil company billionaire will not kill to keep this suppressed? They kill for much less sir. No one’s gonna show you anything to only be murdered for it, especially for the purpose of winning the Noble Peace Prize…That statement in itself sums up who you are. You just wanna be seen. Some people really want to save live.

    • anticultist says :

      You are bonkers Aqeela, truly the one separated from reality is all you. You should check yourself into a mental health clinic asap before you hurt yourself or someone else.

      • aqeela says :

        Anticultist…you mean that egypt wasnt a modern city? what about alexandria??….the colonizers attempted to erase all existence of latter day culture so that they could have us to believe that we currently have the most advance technological civilization…here is another article detail that a city existed before Alexander the “great” ( a colonizer) supposedly discovered Alexandria…

        Ancient “Lost” City’s Remains Found Under Alexandria’s Waters
        Dan Morrison in Alexandria, Egypt
        for National Geographic News
        July 31, 2007

        The problem is a euro-centric view of the world is limiting. you know that “his-story” is told from the perspective of the colonizers. theres a reason why they burnt the great library after they stole all the most important books.

        and as far as writing…IT’S ALL WRITTEN, in hieroglyphics which people like E. Willis Budge translated incorrectly (look it up)… here are more fact for you to research to challenge your euro-centric perspective of science and mathematics…

        The early Greek-Roman gods & goddesses such as Apollo, Zeus, Hercules, Athena, Venus, were all Black, being renditions of the Black Egyptian gods. The historian Herodotus himself wrote “the names of nearly all the gods came to Greece from Egypt.” The Aeneid, like the Iliad, Odyssey and all the other great epics of the world, is a poetic story dealing with Black people! Aeneas, the Trojan hero of Virgil’s Aeneid, was in direct descent from Dardanus, the African founder of Troy.

        Africans gave us Math, Algebra, Geometry, and Trigonometry! -Including the Arabic Numbers! Africans also originated the world’s first known universities.

        The falsely credited Pythagoras and Euclid learned their knowledge from Egypt’s “Sacred Mystery Schools,” which were the first universities known to man (with branches in other parts of the world, including China!) Estimated by computer analysis to have approached a mile in length, the temple-university of Luxor housed an elite faculty of priest-professors and catered to some 80,000 students at all grade levels! Temples were at the center of religion, politics and education.

        The Ethiopians and Egyptians originated Mathematics and Trigonometry. The African Moors originated Algebra and developed Trigonometry into a science. The word Algebra is derived from “Al-Jabr wa’l Muqabala,” the title of the first textbook on the subject. From the name of the Black author, “Al-Khowarizmi.” We get the word algorithm (a math procedure). The Arabic numbers we use today came from he ancient Arab people who were originally Black Africans! And many of them still are!

        Chemistry & the word itself is from Black Egypt. And where would the world be without PAPER and ALPHABET?

        Africans gave us both! The words Chemistry/ Alchemy are from the word Kam or Khem, the name that the ancient Egyptians called themselves that means BLACK. Africans invented paper and papermaking. Paper was made from papyrus, hence the name. Before this, writing was done on stone tablets. The alphabet used by Western civilization originates from the Black Phoenicians who copied the principles from the Africans of the Nile Valley.

        The real ‘Father of Medicine’ was the African multi-genius Imhotep of ancient Egypt, not Hippocrates who lived 2000 years later. Imhotep brought the knowledge of medicine to Greece and Rome. He was a world famous physician, architect, high priest, diplomat, economist, poet, philosopher, sage, magician, astronomer, engineer, and designer of the Step Pyramid of Sakkara. He was so revered that he was deified while still living and worshipped as the Great God of Medicine. The Greeks renamed him Aesclepios, the God of Healing. The phrase “drink and be merry…” is traced to him.

        The symbol of the medical profession, the caduceus (a winged staff entwined by two serpents), was the insignia found on his temples. Imhotep temples in fact were the first hospitals known to man! Stolen from Africa, his many volumes are at Karl Marx University in Leipzig, Germany “From Egypt comes the earliest medical books, the first observatory for anatomy – human and comparative – the first experiments in surgery and pharmacy, the first use of splints and bandages, compresses and other appliances, and the first anatomical and medical vocabulary, and an extensive one at that.”

        (S. Glanvile: The Legacy of Egypt p196) European medicine is founded on the works of Imhotep and Black Muslims, Avicenna and Rhazes. For rich details, see Llaila O. Afrika: African Holistic Health.

        This race of black men… is the very race to which we owe our arts, our sciences, and even the use of speech!”

        Wrote the amazed, distinguished French scholar, Count C. Volney in 1787. Later he wrote Ruins of Empires, a book which so delighted scholars of the day that it was translated into English with a ‘special edition’ for the racist Americans, in which the following quotation was left out: “There are a people, now forgotten who discovered while others were yet barbarians, the elements of the arts and sciences. The Black man is rejected now for their black skin and woolly hair founded, on the study of the laws of Nature, those civil and religious systems which still govern the universe.”

        The name by which whites are known -Caucasian- originated from Africans -and is from Caucasus, which is derived from the Ethiopian words “Caer Cush Aur.” (Bryant’s Ancient Mythology Vol. III, p158 [1807]). Ancient African civilizations flourished while Europeans were living as barbarians in the caves of the Caucasus mountains.
        Whites stole the word “Aryan” from the Sanskrit language of India’s Blacks where it meant noble cultivator or the holy.

        Europe is named after the Black Phoenician princess, Europe! (See dictionary) who was kidnapped by Black Zeus.

        “Slave” is from “Slav.” So many Slavic people of Europe were enslaved that the word “Slav” came to mean, “slave.”

        Paris is named after the Egyptian goddess, Isis!–From an early temple of Isis (Pari Isidos). At the site of this temple is the Cathedral of Notre Dame; the Grande Dame referred to Isis herself!

        why is this important?? if you look at thing from a different perspective, you can see that there are flaw in what so-called ‘Scientist” say….again i say, did the egyptian use picks and shovels to build the pyramids or did they have an advanced technological civilization that included electricity, space travel, lasers, etc…

      • muertos says :

        Aqeela, I know a little bit about history, as it happens to be my profession.

        You are making three fundamental errors in your analysis. The first is assuming that technological advancement similar to the modern Western world–machine-based technology like lasers, space flight, etc.–is the only (or primary) mark of civilizational achievement. This is an example of, what we call in the field of history, “anachronism”–judging the past based on the assumptions of the present. Why has the Western world developed this particular type of technology? It has to do with social, economic and cultural factors that have caused certain societies, particularly in the last 150 years, to incentivize machine-based technology. It’s by no means a given that any society, in developing advanced mathematics or scientific knowledge, will choose to use that knowledge to build a rocket to the moon. You’re simply assuming that any civilization that achieves these advancement will do something like that. The assumption is simply wrong.

        Second, and closely related–you assume, again incorrectly, that knowledge of the scientific, mathematical etc. underpinnings of our machine-based, industrial technological development will, in every culture, automatically lead to the developments of those things themselves. Look at the examples you gave above. These are all examples of knowledge, not technology. Certain ancient cultures had advanced knowledge of math. Yes, they did. Certain ancient cultures had advances in medical understanding. Yes, they did. But why does this mean that this knowledge would have found expression in technology similar to what our modern Western culture has chosen to develop? Why is it inevitable that these ancient civilizations would have made those choices? You have no explanation for this. You simply assume it, and that’s incorrect.

        Third–what I see you doing is trying to graft history onto a predetermined narrative. Your post above strongly emphasizes a “lost knowledge” narrative. You’re trying to shoehorn everything into supporting that narrative. The first lesson you learn in the study of history is that you can’t impose a narrative from outside onto a historical record. You just can’t do it. You must be faithful to what the facts really are.

        Anticultist is right to point out that there’s not a shred of evidence that ancient cultures had the machines you insist they had. If the Egyptians had lasers, how come one was not found in Tutankhamen’s tomb when it was opened in 1922? If they had such advanced medical treatments, why does Tutankhamen’s mummy show signs of diseases that are easily cured today? If ancient peoples had space vehicles, how come, when our modern civilization achieved space flight in the 1950s and 1960s, we didn’t find remnants of Phoenician and Sumerian launch vehicles floating around up there? If ancient peoples had airplanes, where is the archaeological record of their hangar facilities, their fuel tanks, their manufacturing facilities, their control towers, as well as remnants of the planes themselves?

        This is the problem with the kind of thinking advanced by the movie Thrive. It wants to make these huge leaps based on faulty assumptions and zero facts. Then believers get emotionally invested in the truth of these ideas that have no objective support. In my view this is an extremely dangerous way of looking at the world.

      • anticultist says :

        Once again you maintain this stance no one is debating, that being people here are against the concept ancient cultures were intellectual, none of us are.
        I will reiterate in hope it gets through to you, ancient cultures were not technologically advanced in comparison to modern culture, there is simply no record of it. The belief you hold about a timeline that dictates ancient technological superiority, to a loss of it, to a reinvention of it doesn’t exist in the real world. There isn’t a single shred of evidence n the planet for it.

        Also your naive claim of the dismantling of Alexandria by only white and European people merely shows your ignorance of true history.
        “Ancient and modern sources identify four possible occasions for the partial or complete destruction of the Library of Alexandria: Julius Caesar’s fire in the Alexandrian War, in 48 BC; the attack of Aurelian in 270 – 275 AD; the decree of Coptic Pope Theophilus in AD 391; and the Muslim conquest in 642 AD or thereafter.”

        Notice its first destruction by Muslims BC.

        Now indeed the library will have held information that was stolen, lost or forgotten forever. This does not mean there were papyri explaining the design of lasers and space craft, nor does it mean there were writings cataloging all the technological wizardry of today’s level.
        Indeed it is a sad loss all those writings were lost, and some of them may have lead to advances sooner than later if they were not lost, but that is all.

        You use the false stance that this means they were equal or even superior to today’s intellect in science, this is simply untrue, they were certainly intelligent enough to understand the beginnings of science though.

        At least be honest enough to admit you have nothing to offer to prove your beliefs, as that is all they are.

      • anticultist says :

        *Notice its first destruction by Muslims BC.*

        Should read notice its destruction by Muslims AD.

  17. Rob Hopkins says :

    I love the suggestion that I’ve been paid to point out that perhaps there might be somewhat of an absence of evidence that ancient peoples had free energy machines, aircraft, electric lights, central heating and so on. I can’t imagine who might go out of their way to pay me to state the obvious (more’s the pity). As with everything else in ‘Thrive’, it’s about evidence. If Aqueela believes that ancient peoples had these devices, could he (she?) please present some kind of evidence rather than just calling me a simpleton and suggesting that I need to take bribes in order to have an opinion.

    Let’s assume for a moment that in fact, as Aqueela suggests, the ancient Egyptians had free energy, which somehow meant they were able to build the pyramids by levitating the blocks into place or something. If that were the case, and they had this amazing resource, why is it not mentioned in any of their writings, their wall art, in all the treasures that have survived us from that time? Why, when King Tutenkhamun was buried in his pyramid, was he not buried with some kind of artefact of such a device, surely something he would want to take into the underworld? A working torus thing for example, or even a lightbulb, or his favourite electric gadget? Why, if such an amazing device existed, did neighbouring nations all not try continually to invade them to get their hands on it?

    You see, I’m not here to promote any particular viewpoint, I’m just asking if you expect me to believe extraordinary claims that throw our ideas of history and science on their heads, you’d better have some pretty impressive evidence. ‘Thrive’ offers none, and that’s where it all falls apart for me. If you want to claim that ancient cultures had free energy devices, you need to present some pretty amazing evidence that undermines hundreds of years of archaeology and research. If you have it, I’d love to see it. Calling someone who questions you a ‘simpleton’ really does little to further a culture of constructive debate.

  18. aqeela says :

    listen folks, the premise of my conversation is if the “Colonizers” would go as far as stealing the legacy of ancient african people (namely the egyptians), what make you think for one second that they would tell you what they discovered in there archeological findings (grave robbing)?? why would they? This would mean they would have to expose the “Truth” of what they been hiding all along. This is not a conspiracy theory folks. This is simple psychology, what do they call it deductive reasoning (logic)? all you learned folks should understand this.

    Muertos:

    Your making as assumption that they would not use there advanced understanding of mathematic, astronomy and physics to develop the great technological feats they created. And your logic is that because they didnt find anything in King Tut tomb, that its proven? How do you know they didnt find anything in Tut’s tomb? Do you have high military clearances? why would they tell you? They (the Elite) that Foster speak about in the film, the one’s he know intimately because he grew up in the culture, would quickly deem the finding a threat to “National Security” and cover it all up from regular people like you and me…Now tell me thats an assumption!

    And based upon deductive reasoning, and the premise im sharing, what you are saying is incorrect.

    you ask the question: “Why is it inevitable that these ancient civilizations would have made those choices?” why wouldnt they? we did! or do you think from your limited perspective that we are so much “Smarter” then them that western civilization would develop all of these advances out of the thin air??. We are so damn arrogant and ego-maniacal (westerners and i include myself)!

    I know a lot about history Muertos, but the most important fact is that, HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF! I attribute most of what you say to your education in a eurocentric educational system that keeps you thinking in a box. I dont fault you though:-), what i hope to do is “Educate”(to induce whats already inherent in you) you. even the word educate has been changed in the dictionary to mean something other than what the logos (the creative word) prescribes.

    I also feel its necessary to share this info with you (look it up please) to further elaborate on my premise:

    Nazca Lines are the most outstanding group of geoglyphs in the world. Etched in the surface of the desert pampa sand about 300 hundred figures made of straight lines, geometric shapes and pictures of animals and birds – and their patterns are only clearly visible from the air!

    is this just knowledge or would you agree that this is a technological advancement??? with all of our industry and technology, we still have not figured out what the ancients knew… OR are the few “elite” just hiding these discoveries as THRIVE suggest….

    This is not just knowledge Muertos
    THE PYRAMIDS ARE A TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENT!!!

    the positioning of the three Pyramids of Giza are exactly aligned with the position of the three stars in the belt of Orion, both in position and in size. While it is possible, it would create many difficulties for the Egyptians in terms of measuring huge distances. Not only this, but in fact, at the time that the pyramids were supposedly built (about 3000 BC), the stars that make up the Belt of Orion were not exactly at the correct angle to match up with the pyramids. If the location of the stars is traced back over thousands of years (and we can do that now), the time at which the belt is exactly aligned with the pyramids is in fact 10,500 BC. A time when there were supposedly no civilized humans living on the earth. Another fact to support this is, if you consider the Sphinx, a lion with a human head and then look at the size of the body, you can see that the body is perfectly proportioned for the head of a lion, not the human head. This human head looks tiny and silly sitting on top of the body. This is because the Sphinx was actually built in 10,500 BC, around the same time as the pyramids, with a real head of a lion. Evidence to support this is that there are signs of water erosion all over the Sphinx. The last time that there was any water nearby, aside from the Nile is around 10,000 BC. Also, the constellation of Leo the Lion (thus closely related to the Sphinx), was in fact rising directly behind the sun in 10,500 BC.

    Muertos your a historian, you should know this! why do all of our history book tell us that we were hunter/gatherers in 10K BC?? why would they lie to us? when they facts clearly proves that Human Beings have been on the earth for millions of years and have had GREAT civilizations that have come and gone…WAKE UP! check the facts above and free your mind.

  19. gjgjghj says :

    stupid shit

    • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

      You only say that because you’re a Racist Son of a Colonizer!

      • omniro says :

        Interesting new tactic, I’ve never encountered this one before. Accusing anyone who disagrees with the largely evidence-free paradigms of conspiracy theory of being “racist”. Interesting… an attempt to shame people into accepting your ideas? Or perhaps shape the perceptions of outsiders, looking in, that the skeptics are racists.

        Either way, it’s disgusting.

      • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

        Hi Omniro,

        I’m not surprised that you’ve never encountered this form of racism before, so let me bring you up to speed on why this is new to you. The author of the above history is named Aqeela and he is a black man. The responders to his history lesson above, including myself and you, are all white men (Eurocentric Colonizers). The history that Aqeela puts forth is known as Afro-centrism, and it posits that the source of our civilization is Egypt and that all those ancient Egyptians were black.

        Now since you are a skeptic, I cite below a page from the Skeptics Dictionary that covers so many of the themes Aqeela mentions above.

        http://skepdic.com/afrocent.html

        Afrocentrism is a pseudohistorical political movement that erroneously claims that African-Americans should trace their roots back to ancient Egypt because it was dominated by a race of black Africans. Some of Afrocentrism’s other claims are: the ancient Greeks stole their main cultural achievements from black Egyptians; Jesus, Socrates and Cleopatra, among others, were black; and Jews created the slave trade of black Africans.

        The main purpose of Afrocentrism is to encourage black nationalism and ethnic pride as a psychological weapon against the destructive and debilitating effects of universal racism.

        Here is a page from CSICOP
        Magic Melanin: Spreading Scientific Illiteracy Among Minorities

        http://www.csicop.org/si/show/magic_melanin_spreading_scientific_illiteracy_among_minorities

        Afrocentric beliefs include a range of tenets. One of the fundamental ideas is that Egypt is the source of civilization and that during its glorious days Egyptians were black. For some, Egypt was the source for European civilization by way of the Greeks, a claim for which there is some evidence. More extreme proponents claim that Egypt was the source of the New World civilizations of Mesoamerica and the Andes as well as Chinese and Indian civilizations. These are claims for which there is no credible evidence.

        As described previously (Ortiz de Montellano 1991), these ideas are being taught in the several urban school districts that have adopted the Portland African-American Baseline Essays. The Science Baseline Essay (Adams 1990a) claims, among other things, that thousands of years ago Egyptians flew in gliders, electroplated gold, knew accurately the distance to the sun, and discovered the Theory of Evolution. The essay also claims that “the Ancient Egyptians were known the world over as the masters of ‘magic’ (psi). precognition, psychokinesis, remote viewing and other undeveloped human capabilities.” Psi is proclaimed to be a scientific discipline that is studied in leading universities today.

        And to show that not all black scholars are on board with this Afro-centrism, I quote from the wiki:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrocentrism#Pseudohistorical_claims

        African-American professor Clarence E. Walker, who teaches history at the University of California, Davis, has described Afrocentrism as “a mythology that is racist, reactionary, essentially therapeutic and is eurocentrism in black face.”

        So why are you so upset about being labeled a racist? Since you are a white man like myself, then wear the charge of Eurocentric racism proudly like a badge. I do. And in the spirit of equality, why not allow Aqeela also to wear proudly the Afrocentric badge of his racism? I mean we’re all racists on this bus, but by the same token (pardon the pun) I don’t believe that any of us are bigots.

      • omniro says :

        I’m familiar with Afrocentrism, but never encountered it used in quite this way before (being applied to conspiracy-centric belief systems). It’s kind of ironic that a lot of the “conspiracy” / alternate-history ideas that Aqeela referenced in his arguments were created by white men.

        I am not a racist, I’ll accept the truth whatever it is. If the Afrocentric worldview was proven correct, I would accept it.

        Subjective coloring of reality is ultimately futile if your goal is to understand truth.

  20. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Muertos,

    In reading through the wiki for Afrocentrism, I came across a quote that struck me as very appropriate for THRIVERs and their quest to change the world. So what I will do is copy the original quote and then do some appropriate word substitution and verb tense change to apply the quote to THRIVE movement. For the sake of brevity, I use the term “New Age libertarianism” as a catch-phrase for the THRIVE movement.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrocentrism#Pseudohistorical_claims

    Populist Afrocentrism was the perfect social theory for the upwardly mobile black petty bourgeoisie. It gave them a sense of ethnic superiority and cultural originality, without requiring the hard, critical study of historical realities. It provided a philosophical blueprint to avoid concrete struggle within the real world…. It was, in short, only the latest theoretical construct of a politics of racial identity, a world-view designed to discuss the world but never really to change it.

    — Manning Marable, Beyond Black and White: Transforming African American Politics

    Now I mess with the quote and put my substitutions in […braces…] and my addition in {… brackets . . .}

    Populist [New Age libertarianism is] the perfect social theory for the upwardly mobile [white] petty bourgeoisie. It [gives] them a sense of [cognitive] superiority and cultural originality, without requiring the hard, critical study of historical realities. It [provides] a philosophical blueprint to avoid concrete struggle within the real world…. It [is], in short, only the latest theoretical construct of a politics of [Millennial] identity, a world-view designed to discuss {changing} the world but never really to change it.

    — Hollywood Tomfortas, Beyond [THRIVE]: Transforming [Millennial] Politics

    ==========

    My one addition is the crux of the matter: whereas Marable judges the Afrocentric view as designed merely to discuss the world without ever changing it, I see the THRIVER view as designed merely to discuss changing the world without ever changing it.

    And that is why I emphasized the term “theoretical construct.” THRIVERS thrive within the theoretical intellectual construct of discussions about changing the world that hold out the illusion of actually changing the world much as the carrot was hung out over and in front of the mule’s head to keep it moving forward.

    We might even say about THRIVERS that:

    “They not only talk the talk, but they also talk the walk!”

    And you can quote me on that one and stick it on your bumper. Wait, it might be better as a refrigerator magnet. I could start a company . . . Good Lord, there I go myself talking the walk — but at least I am aware of my impotence in the face of death or those nasty Rothschild Zionist Jewish bankers, whichever gets me first!

  21. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Muertos,

    Neither THRIVE the film nor Foster Gamble the person has a regular Wikipedia entry. However there is a wiki style entry for THRIVE the movie on the Self-Indulgence wiki site

    http://selfindulgence.org/Thrive_(film)

    It has a section for critical reaction, but it does not mention your blog here. You could go in and edit the wiki if you like.

  22. devoe86 says :

    I got really sucked into this crap of GDA, etc a few days ago during a Google binge. Thanks for being here to bring me out of this delusion. Conspiracy theories can turn into mental illness if taken at face value and not examined.

  23. therobroy says :

    Sigh……. I always try and apply (other than a healthy dose of Skepticism) the old adage of Occams Razor……Given all the facts about a particular phenomenon, the simplest explanation is usually the closest to the Truth……For example ….Youtube has
    literally hundreds of Videos on the Building of Pyramids ,Stonehenge etc etc. Usually attributing their seemingly Superhuman abilities to Aliens, Sacred Geometrical principles,Direct Intervention/Teachings By the God(s) ,Anti-Gravity etc….Take your pick.
    Here is a nice little exercise for all of you……Watch this Video….
    Coral Castle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o15_DQUm94sfeature=related (Stick with it :-) )THEN AFTER that…..
    Watch this Video……Coral Castle Solved

    ………I think you will get my drift?
    The Point? Don’t believe anything unless you can replicate the experiment yourself. Unfortunately , for most people, that’s too much hard work.

  24. Fu young says :

    Fuck american rednecks! You hateful bastards! Foster gamble has more class then any of you! Fuck you all to hell and fuck America!

    • SlayerX3 says :

      Why all the hate?

    • Joe America says :

      Fu Young, You really need to back up and take your medication. No one hate Foster Gamble. In fact, I really admire this man and his wife for having the guts to state what needs to be stated, the truth. However, Americans are not responsible for all the ills of the world. If you watched Foster’s program, you understand that there are forces, the new world order, which is really the old world order, that want to take the entire world down. In order for that to happen, they have to take America down first. Why? Because America stands for everything the old aristocracy hates, which is freedom for the average person. To them, the average person is nothing more than a surf, who exist to lick their butts clean after they poop. American gave average people from all over the world a chance to rise above their low status in their nation of origin. Was it easy? No. Freedom is never easy and doesn’t come cheap. These bad people operating in our borders, also operate in every nation of the world. They are the elite and they don’t like average people rising up too high. This makes them uncomfortable, because they may lose control. In fact, they see control slipping through their fingers as the world population becomes too large for them to be able to control. This is why they must reduce numbers. So, forget about hating America. We don’t hate anyone, as a people. We, the citizens, want freedom, just like every other person in the world, does. The difference being is that we’ve had a real opportunity to experience freedom. We all like it and you would, too.

  25. Joe America says :

    On behalf of Foster Gamble, I’d like to thank “Thrived Debunked” for the free publicity. Thank you, thank you, and thank you. Nothing really makes people want to see a movie more than for a site, like this one, to spend so much time debunking it. If I didn’t know better, I’d say the guy running this site is being paid to create controversy for the movie, Thrive. Either Foster Gamble’s a genius and you are a moron, or both (he’s a genius and your the moron).

  26. Aboc Zed says :

    @ Joe America
    I came across Thrive movie on a blog I regularly read. I watched it today. I don’t think the movie is particularly useful. There is a lot of noise in it an wishful thinking. Aristocracy is real and natural whether we like it or not. However you slice it there is way too many people on the planet consuming way too many resources and turning the planet into garbage dump. I do not think elites are more responsible than the rest. We all are. Nobody can deal with the momentum of our evolution out of ignorance. Elites are scared and they will naturally use their power to protect their world as they know it. That means getting rid of other people at some point. This is evolution not conspiracy theory. And this is my first and last comment here because I have already wasted way to much time on Thrive movie instead of studying for my accounting designation exam so that I can compete for the chance to have a job and have “good life” for my family for as long as possible.
    We are incredibly primitive as species and Thrive movie does not add to our knowledge but simply makes white noise.

    Much like you and me do. :)

    • Joe says :

      I’ve already stated that Gamble is naive and that his approach and thoughts about the elites are somewhat childish. This doesn’t deminish the facts he presents in the movie. Like you, I’m pragmatic about the whole thing. I’ve seen the worst side of the masses, as well as the worst side of the elites. However, there is nothing any of us can do about it.

      • Aboc Zed says :

        Agree. Individually we cannot do much. And even if we organize into a group we cannot do much either. The only relevant action is to understand human condition and watch what we say so that not to multiply idiosyncratic _opinions_ but collectively work out the language of _science of human condition_.

  27. Katrina says :

    You instantly lost credibility with me when you said we should make education voluntary. Are you kidding? You want to move the world forward and thrive by reverting to an uneducated or illiterate electorate/civilization? How is that possible? We need MORE people to be educated, I say EVERYONE on the planet, not make education voluntary. There are still so many poor nations where girls are banned from having an education — educate your girls, and boys, and move the country out of poverty. Education empowers. Education creates critical thinkers, artists, writers, scientists, architects, engineers, alternative energy. How can we create alternative energy if no one even knows how to read?

  28. Katrina says :

    EDITS for my post:

    1)Foster Gamble instantly lost credibility with me (take out “you” and replace with “Foster Gamble”

    2) Educate a country’s girls and boys and move that country out of poverty (substitute for “your” and “the country”

  29. F.R. says :

    Well here is another one of those people who thinks that he has something better to change the world. I have always longed for change and I think the film “Thrive” gives us an insite into alternative ways of energy, especially “FREE ENERGY.”

    I suppose your one of this elites (bankers, corporations, dark cabal, etc.) who does not want any changes. I guess you have enough money that is why it is just easy for you to criticize people who are trying to make a change. Do you have something better? Well I guess not…

    Reading your comments was really an eye sore, a migrane. “‘Thrive’ is dangerous because it invites us to put our faith for the future in a fantasy.” Didn’t we all go to school and everything that was tought to us we beleived in it and told us to apply those knowledge to better ourselves? Eventhough we learned through textbooks we still beleived in it because we know deep down in our conciouse mind that it was right. And learning is a process, it never ends.

    With all your negative comments you only mentioned one person, “Mr. Hopkins.” I am so sorry, your judgement is based on one person. I didn’t even read anything about you. Are you a researcher or a commentarist? All your quotes comes from a man who I don’t even know. Again if you have something better to share to humanity I dare you to bring it out. Because for me, our world is so miserable that people want to see change and have a better life.

    I want to say more but I will just keep it to myself because I am not a hateful person and I am sure you just blind to see the real picture. But rest assured, I am looking forward to the changes to come which is not for me but for my children and children’s children. So “PEACE” to you and to all who believes in the goodness of our God Almighty… Love and Joy.

    • anticultist says :

      Funnily enough the guy who made the movie is a millionaire and his family are billionaires, yet he originally sold the video Thrive to make cash, and you talk about doing good for the world and free stuff ?!! [energy]

      The old trope do you have something better is a worn out cliche used by dickheads on the internet, who think that someones terrible idea to fix the world is somehow better than not having one. The problem is you are clueless what the world needs as much as the next man, and you don’t know how to fix it either, but you assume that conspiracy theories and unscientific claims somehow trump not offering up an idea. You fail instantly by believing this movie and claiming it is a solution to the worlds problems. The worlds problems are vast and none of us know how to fix them all if we are honest about it, so not offering up a ridiculous idea is the only honest answer. If there are solutions to the worlds problems they will be incremental changes in all areas of life, and they wont be brought about by the kind of bullshitting dick heads in the movie thrive. The changes will be brought about by real scientific minds and changes in law and policy on a national and international level. These are the things that will make life truly better for everyone on the planet.

      • Wyboth says :

        Let’s not forget that implementing Thrive’s solutions would only cause more problems.

      • F.R. says :

        Do you have to be a poor person to share your dreams for the good of humanity? Yes, he is a very rich person but noble enough to go down to the masses to reach out. A lot of people contributed to this film and it is reaching out to those who wants change. I for one who sees all the troubles in this world and its not getting better, its getting worst.

        I am reacting to the negativeness of the blog, especially the person who wrote it who instead of understanding what the messages was, attacks the one person who has the sources to create a film that a lot of people had contributed and believe that there are other alternatives. Are you that person who wrote the first comment? You sound like a preacher from the darkside!

        Dude, you are the one who is clueless, ignorant to the things thats going on. These reports or as you would say, “conspiracy theories”, are no hoax and are not made by crazies as you have stated. Again you lack the understanding and all this “bullshit” you talk about has more meaning than what you think. You need wake up from your dark sleep because your having a nightmare. Hahaha, the light is shinning brighter and you are still in the dark. Peace and love to you, dude! Nemaste

      • Joe America says :

        Yes, I’m very afraid that humanity is in trouble. Ah! But what to do about it? I would love to believe new age fixes would change it, but it’s usually force, money and power that wins, in the long run. That’s why we’re at the point we are, today.

      • a rational person says :

        f.r. sez “Do you have to be a poor person to share your dreams for the good of humanity?”

        do u have to be a fucking moron to fall for bullshit like thrive? yea, you do…

      • Joe America says :

        Thrive is a bit new age for my taste, but the truth about what the elite have in mind for the “great unwashed eaters” is dead on. Beyond that, punks that run their mouths on the Internet, using the F word with impunity, need to have their asses kicked. Keep picking your zits and masterbating to porn, as that suites you.

      • a rational person says :

        at least I can spell “masturbate” correctly…and fyi my wife pops my zits for me.

      • Joe America says :

        You have a wife? She has my pitty.

      • a rational person says :

        wtf is a “pitty”? use a dictionary, you fucking moron.

        what nutbag bullshit do you believe in? moon landing faked? 911 inside job? lizard people? yea, i bet u believe in lizard people…you probably believe the holocaust was faked too, or that vaccines cause autism or that barack obamas birth certificate is a fraud. u gotta be fucking nuts to believe any of this shit. i’ve seen ur other comments here, and you’re an a1 world class nutbag, no doubt about it. srsly, you need psychiatric help. after all, you believe in lizard people. LIZARD PEOPLE! i mean, come on…how nuts u gotta be to swallow that load of shit

      • anticultist says :

        I love how these cranks think that they are enlightened and intellectually superior to those who have researched and laughed at conspiracy theories. They just come across as people suffering tremendously from Dunning Kruger effect.

        They also act so pious until confronted and shown to be retards, then they start spewing how self righteous and vilified they are, and then proceed to wish for hate or enlightenment on people.
        News flash for all you cranks, most skeptics here have been there and done that as far as your beliefs are concerned, why do you think they are so hardcore skeptics ? Because they have invested years of their lives researching and shooting this shit down.

        In the end you conspiritards are all just the same as religious people, you have faith and fuck all else.

      • Wyboth says :

        Make that religious fundamentalists. Most religious people (me included) are still capable of reading the bible with regard to historical context and not use it as an excuse to hate gays, like the fundamentalists do. I think they’re very small, but very loud, so lots of people think all Christians are that way. We aren’t.

      • Neo says :

        WYBOTH STOP THE DISINFO OR YOULL BE OVERTHROWN!

      • Joe America says :

        The more I find out, the more research I do, the more convinced I am that Gamble is correct. However, the touchy-feeling idealism to correct it isn’t there. In fact, it can’t be corrected. It’s simply going to happen. Enjoy.

      • a rational person says :

        the more i read your comments, the more i realize you’re fucking nuts. gamble isn’t “correct,” he’s ass backwards wrong about every major thing he opens his mouth about.

      • Joe America says :

        Here’s my concern, which is that if people, especially the person who built this site, really believes Gamble is a raving nut, why spend so much energy debunking him? The fact is that someone wants everyone to think he’s crazy, otherwise, why spend the money and time to create this site. In my opinion, you represent the very people he’s trying to expose. Not that I mind, of course. I’m looking for my in to the New World Order. Otherwise, I might not be around very long.

      • Wyboth says :

        @Joe America Read “Why This Blog?” It explains why Muertos wrote it. Also, no money was involved in writing it. WordPress is free, Muertos wrote the articles himself, and Slayer decided to chime in later. He wrote the articles on his own free will. He didn’t receive any pay, nor did he expect to. I probably would have written some articles myself, if I wasn’t so late.

        As for you trying to join the new world order, that’s actually a novel idea. Perhaps actually trying to get admitted to the nwo will help you disprove it. When you climb the pyramid and find out nobody’s at the top, you’ll then know that there really isn’t a nwo. But be careful. If you tell your conspiracy theorist friends that it’s a sham, be ready to take a disinfo agent to the face. “You joined their ranks and now you’re spreading disinfo!” they’ll shout, and no matter what you say, they’ll become more convinced that you’re a disinfo agent. Then you’ll know what it’s like to be a debunker.

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