Under Construction!

This blog is under construction. As I am working my way through the Thrive movie and making a list of notes and materials for a more thorough fact-checking than has already been done on the film, there may not be anything up here for a while. Check back soon!

29 responses to “Under Construction!”

  1. Mr WordPress says :

    Hi, this is a comment.
    To delete a comment, just log in, and view the posts’ comments, there you will have the option to edit or delete them.

  2. M says :

    good so far, i look forward to reading more

  3. soul says :

    I think you beautiful minded folks should stop wasting time debunking for these pre-pubescent depression-ridden children and involve yourselves to promote good change in the corrupt system we live in.

    – with love
    soul

  4. muertos says :

    That’s not a bad idea…

  5. Luke says :

    Your comment; “these devices do not work because they violate the basic laws of physics”

    -So tell me, How much DO YOU KNOW about the basic laws of physics??? What is The Basic Law of Physics anyway? -It is the stuff that has been invented by those who’s daddy thought flying was a boy’s dream over a century ago.
    -Do you honestly think we have covered enough ground of modern science to talk about what is the true limit of physics if there are any?
    I mean, we are still struggling to understand the most basic things such as what “light” really is.

    I am not supporting AdamTrombly here, He may be genuine or he may not- it does not matter to me, but our best physicist on this planet has repeatedly proved them self completely wrong over the years about their clever theories based on man-made laws.

    Commissioner of U.S. patent office Charles H. Duell has once quoted; “Everything that can be invented has been invented.”
    -that was in 1899!

    Don’t end up like him.

    Oh yes, and there is another thing,,, about the crop circles.
    -Just tell me one thing,, Who on Earth would go out in the middle of the miserable, dark, cold and wet English nights sweating for hours and hours in groups to make 9000 crop circles in the last 40 years?

    If you are rationally minded, just do a quick math. That is over 200 times a year only in UK buddy!
    What kind of idiots would do that??

    Luke

  6. muertos says :

    Tell me something, if scientists’ understanding of the laws of physics are so faulty, how did we get jet engines? The Apollo moon landing? The 747? Hydroplanes? Semiconductors? Radio telescopes? The discovery of the Big Bang? The theory of relativity, which has been proven correct?

    You suggest that the scientific explanation for “free energy” machines lies beyond our current understanding of physics. That reasoning suffers from a fundamental problem: these machines don’t actually work. If they did, verifiably, beyond any doubt, then you would be correct that the laws of physics that say they can’t work are in need of revision because obviously a functioning “free energy” machine would prove that they can and do work. However, the case is exactly the opposite. The machines don’t work. The laws of physics as we understand them explain why they do not work. How is this doing anybody an injustice by observing this?

    The machines cannot be impeded by an imperfectly understood regime of physics. That is to say, if they work, they work, regardless of what the laws of physics say. But they don’t work. This is not a case of somebody seeing these machines functioning as promised, and then saying, “No, wait, that shouldn’t be able to happen! That’s against the laws of physics!” What is happening is, the machines don’t work, and someone is saying, “Yes, we know why they don’t work, because the laws of physics say that they cannot.”

    What part of “the machines don’t work” do you not understand?

    As for crop circles, you ask the question, “Who on Earth would go out in the middle of the miserable, dark, cold and wet English nights sweating for hours and hours in groups to make 9000 crop circles in the last 40 years?”

    The answer: Doug Bower and Dave Chorley. They have admitted to doing exactly what you say is so improbable. Many others have too. If you read the article on this blog about crop circles, you’ll see links to sites where you can read about these people and what they have done.

    Thanks for posting your comment.

    • Luke says :

      Greetings!

      Thanks for your prompt response.

      Your quote;

      OK, that’s easy;

      It’s the same way how the Egyptians built the great pyramids (which some civil engineers say impossible today).
      The same way as the Europeans built amazing cathedrals while they thought the whole universe revolves around the earth.

      “Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”

      I presume you have heard of this quote before? and you know by whom?

      More later,,, I can smell a real interesting debates coming up between you and me.

      • Luke says :

        About the crop circles, yes I am aware of the man made crop circles.

        I guess you are not aware but a thorough investigations has carried out by scientist to distinguish between what is man made and none-man made.
        -There are many factors that differentiates them technically. The most obvious is that the man made crops has broken stems and none man made- are bent by asymmetrical swelling of the stems about an inch off the ground.

        And by the way, you don,t even have to look at them that close to spot the fake. The made made crop circles just looks,,, man made!

        I have NO idea what the none man made crop circles are meant for. It is just good to have certain things our world that has no explanations.

  7. muertos says :

    Before we get pulled off on tangents, how do you respond to the central defect in your reasoning about free energy–the fact that these machines in fact simply do not work?

    • Luke says :

      Oh yes, the free energy stuffs!

      You are absolutely right to be skeptical and point your fingers at it. Because there are certainly a LOTS of Bull-Sh**ers out there.
      The website PESwiki is full of fund and attention seekers with unfinished free energy devises varying from magnet motors, cold fusion to zero point energy and even low currency electrolysis. And you are right, I am yet to witness a device that can power a 60 watt bulb with closed circuit with-no external power input.

      But followings are the facts that leads many of us to believe that there must be some thing out there.

      FACT-1/ People who has claimed to have invented free energy were being threatened, accused ( tax evasion, fraud etc..), jailed and even killed. If the government or the petrol companies are so sure that there is NO such thing as free energy, WHY would they do that? Obviously they are worried about something.

      FACT-2/ Energy equals mc2.- that basically means energy is at abundance every where. We just don’t know how to tap into it. Even though Einstein discovered the theory, he said creating an atomic chain reaction is as hard as shooting down a bird in mid air in total darkness in a country where there aren’t many birds. -Yet it was done!
      It illustrates that a man clever enough to come up with a revolutionary laws of physics is not necessary the one who can do something with it.

      FACT-3/ Universe is full of visible evidences of abundance of energy at work. -Sun is a giant nuclear fusion reactor and there are billions of them only in our galaxy.
      -How did the big bang started from nothing? Surely a colossal amount of energy was created somehow. -From “Something” that we know as, “Nothing”.
      -Why is the universe expanding faster instead of slowing down as it should if it follows the very basic law of gravity?
      -Powerful magnetic fields created by planets like earth.
      -etc..etc…

      FACT-4/ Though real UFOs are rare, you would be either dumb or ignorant to deny that it does exits!
      I have no idea what their origins are but what it can do certainly requires other stuffs than fossil fuel and internal combustion engines.
      This may explain (one of the reasons ) why there are groups of people with-in the government who tries to cover them up.
      I used to think that it was to prevent panic and disorder in the society but now, I am sure that it is more to do with money and power.

      FACT-5/ There are more and more qualified scientists and engineers who has witnessed and proof that some of the free energy stuffs………actually does work.
      So lets keep our fingers crossed for our own future’s sake. We might be watching a miracle machine powering a 60 watt bulb in the 8 o’ clock news one day if the inventor didn’t got killed by hit man or,,, women.

  8. muertos says :

    “And you are right, I am yet to witness a device that can power a 60 watt bulb with closed circuit with-no external power input.”

    And neither has anyone else. So far as I’m concerned this is conclusive. There is no evidence that a single machine of this nature actually works. Until there is, this is all speculation and/or fantasy.

    “FACT-1/ People who has claimed to have invented free energy were being threatened, accused ( tax evasion, fraud etc..), jailed and even killed.”

    Not a fact at all. You would like this to be a fact but there is no proof of it. The Thrive movie makes this claim with the section about Eugene Mallove and others, but as you can see from the second debunking page, these claims are spurious. There is simply no evidence that this is true, and it’s counterintuitive anyway, given the fact that free energy devices do not work.

    “FACT-2/ Energy equals mc2.- that basically means energy is at abundance every where.”

    That is not what E=mc2 means at all. It means that energy equals matter times the speed of light squared. In any event this equation is not relevant to this debate.

    “FACT-3/ Universe is full of visible evidences of abundance of energy at work.”

    Yes–and these energy sources all behave consistent with the laws of physics as we understand them.

    “FACT-4/ Though real UFOs are rare, you would be either dumb or ignorant to deny that it does exits!”

    Not a fact at all. You must distinguish between a “UFO” (unidentified flying object) and an extraterrestrial craft. Yes, there are sightings of objects in the sky which are not identified. There is no reliable evidence that these sightings are in fact sightings of extraterrestrial craft. This is a common conclusion that UFO believers jump to which is totally unwarranted.

    “This may explain (one of the reasons ) why there are groups of people with-in the government who tries to cover them up.”

    No proof of this. Also irrelevant to a debate about free energy.

    “FACT-5/ There are more and more qualified scientists and engineers who has witnessed and proof that some of the free energy stuffs………actually does work.”

    Not a fact. Prove it. Name one such scientist or engineer.

    “-There are many factors that differentiates them technically. The most obvious is that the man made crops has broken stems and none man made- are bent by asymmetrical swelling of the stems about an inch off the ground.”

    Untrue. Read the material linked on the crop circles blog and you’ll see that this claim is completely false.

    In any event, that blog also explains why leaping to the conclusion that crop circles are of extraterrestrial origin violates the rules of logical reasoning. I don’t see you presenting anything that changes that.

    • Luke says :

      You have responded exactly how I have expected. -Very typical. Your main point of argument is what are the proofs -isn’t it?

      For people like yourself, No proof is a good enough of a proof.

      For the fact-1, the net is littered with detailed information with the names of the inventors who has been suppressed or even killed. Have you even bothered to look up?

      For the fact-2 , “It means that energy equals matter times the speed of light squared”.
      Actually “m” represents mass, not matter. – Even only a gram of mass represents awful lots of energy (about 25.0 million kw/h ) when you can harness it at sub-atomic level. Even more interestingly, now there are theories that vacuum has even greater level of energy- than mass.

      Fact-3, your quote; “Yes–and these energy sources all behave consistent with the laws of physics as we understand them “
      -NO, not always! – As I have mentioned before, if it follows the law of physics, the universe should be slowing down its expansion but actually it accelerates! Besides, a recent discovery shows that the law of physics as we know varies from one end of the universe to other! The law of physics is “man-made”. -It is as good as the theory back in the days when the big brains thought that the earth was flat. –Today, the big brains have just discovered that in fact, here are particles faster than light at CERN.

      Fact-4, Humm,,, I don’t seem to recall mentioning anything “extraterrestrial”. I am a skeptical person; I don’t draw up conclusions till when things are so dead obvious, I would be stupid not to accept it. But then, I admit -I am not ruling out the fact that the most possible origin of the real ufos are possibly extra terrestrial , because all other possibilities seems much less credible. Do you have any better explanations? I would love to hear about it.

      Fact-5, check out the Orbo device from a company called Steron in Ireland. There are testimonial videos of 3 or 4 PhD professors / Scientists from the university of Dublin who has (with much difficultly and astonishment) admitted that the Orbo device does return more than 300% energy than it consumes. And that’s not all….

      -Lastly about the crop circles, Please show me the crop circles blog that claim is completely false.

      Bottom of the line is, I know that one day, you will be ashamed of yourself because you underestimate the nature of universe and abilities of human and you will find yourself that you were wrong after all. Just like those who said flying machines are not physically possible.

      -I can understand the debunking of the Moon landing hoax or the 911 hoax theories because they are just complete jokes but you should be spending your energy and time for something more positive than bringing down people who are trying their best to make this planet a better place to be.

      My last “FACT” is that, in US, 1 % of the population owns more than 90 % of the wealth. And that is simply –wrong.
      -You don’t need be believe in laws of physics to comprehend that!

      Adios!

  9. muertos says :

    Your answer is a bunch of gobbledygook and spurious claims. If you are not a conspiracy theorist you certainly argue like one. What’s littering the net about “free energy suppression” is generally not very reliable. Why, if these machines work, are the guys who built them reduced to bragging about it on websites and YouTube videos instead of, you know, demonstrating their working machines in front of credentialed scientists and engineers? Not a lot of scientists watch YouTube, I’m afraid, and in any event that is not the forum in which to present world-shaking discoveries.

    That said, I will look into the Steron claim, as that interests me.

    Adding that I will someday be ashamed of myself for not believing in your woo and conspiracy theories is a nice touch.

    How am I “bringing down people who are trying to make this planet a better place to be”? The people who made Thrive are not trying to make this planet a better place to be. They’re trying to foster belief in conspiracy theories and scams like free energy devices.

    Why is it that conspiracy theorists and woo believers so often react, when asked for specific evidence to back up their claims, that insistence on evidence and facts is somehow unfair to them? It’s not unfair at all. It’s how things work in the real world.

    • Luke says :

      I understand your points of views. It is a shame that you see mine as a bunch of gobbledygook and spurious claims. ( Yes, I am a bit of a gobbledygook, I am in engineering & design business)

      Your quote;”Why, if these machines work, are the guys who built them reduced to bragging about it on websites and YouTube videos”
      -I did tell you that internet is full of attention seeking, easy money, fund seeking- bull sh*ters didn’t I? – Just look at the history of aviation, how many dumb inventors with crazy ideas were made with ridiculous results till the real one appeared in 1903? Hundreds! if not thousands.

      I am certainly not a conspiracy theorists nor pay much attention to them.
      I am not a supporter of the Thrive movie either. Personally, I would have done it in different ways without all that details like ancient Egyptian symbols etc….
      However, I do respect their initiatives of giving more awareness to the general public of what they need to know.

      On your side, I am not going to accuse you of being an utter realists. You and I are just different types of people, that’s all.

      About who is right or wrong,,, time will tell. Till then, happy debunking!

  10. Kyle says :

    Hey Muertos. I am probably just an innocent person who wishes there were some real answers to the problems of modern life, but I liked Thrive. My question is why do you think it is so important to debunk it? If it is false isn’t it harmless new age BS?

    • muertos says :

      Thanks for your comment. No, just because it’s false does not mean it’s harmless. As I say on the FAQ page (https://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/faq/) I think that conspiracy theories are extremely harmful and it’s very important to push back against them. Conspiracy thinking corrodes the ability of people to think rationally and participate meaningfully in democracy. It establishes false dichotomies and promotes hatred–for example, Foster Gamble’s hatred of the Rockefeller family. It also diverts attention away from real problems that need solving. Prime example: anthropogenic climate change. Most conspiracy theorists are global warming deniers. How can they be expected to participate in solving a problem that they think doesn’t exist?

      If you’d like to read the stories of people who have been directly harmed by belief in conspiracy theories, alt-med cures, New Age religious garbage and similar ideas, I suggest you browse this site: http://whatstheharm.net/

      • John says :

        Democracy is a joke to create a sense of freedom, and gives this unnatural and lonely lifestyle the feeling of connectiveness and a sense of belonging to something greater than yourself in order to acheive something that would be insignificant as an individual effort. (typical utilization of human psychology to benefit corporations)….it’s thinking like that which makes “conspiracy theorists” seem like people who will only make this world worse, and that their obssession is delusional and self destructive. The very fact that conspiracy theorists like that exist is again another psychological tactic to pump propaganda which further continues this unnatural order. You’re trying to compare thrive to the rants of alex jones (and misguided conspiracy theorists) which is using typical psychological tactics, because once they realize that there are similarities in the info then they think it’s just gonna be the exact same thing and then not care to watch the rest, or simply skim through it. (and it’s NOT the same because it’s all rationally explained, and actually offers a practical SOLUTION) There has never been a single social revolution which hasn’t destroyed the old norm…people like yourself think that conspiracy theories or conspiritualistic concepts are what will crumble society and destroy the economy, and you are correct (about the collapse of THIS economy…which is owned by a private federal reserve.) If massive uncooperation happens then yeah, you won’t have all these conveniences around. That is what the selfish and lazy people fear, a world where they have to use their own knowledge of nature, and their own 2 hands and feet in order to get things done, create things, survive…they fear a world where they have to be truly independent….the proposed world in thrive is not only practical on the level of the whole, but uplifting on a personal level, the economy will be more stable than ever, and it will become more natural, and more moral. What you are protecting is selfish laziness, you hate movements like this because it makes the economy collapse even more, but that’s because it’s a economy ran by fat cats that allotts wealth based on whoever feeds the beast the most.

      • a rational person says :

        @ john : wow, u just used a whole bunch of words to say absolutely nothing. blah blah blah…you drone on about propaganda tactics and fat cats…you’re probably just a nutbag yourself. what conspiracy shit do you believe in? 911 inside job? lizard people? haarp? bet ya believe in at least one of those don’t ya?

      • Luke says :

        Your generalisations about people wo show interest in conspiracy theorys are hugley insulting and unfounded, Your debunking is also more bias than any mainstream paper or polotics show ever has been. i suppose you deny the exhistance of fractional banking aswell?

        I am an individual with interest in the world around me and how i may go about improving it rather than destroyng it, by improving i mean sustainable peace and abundance for all, which i belive (weather achievable or not) is a worthy life goal.

        You seem more to be focussed on quashing those hopes in people than in an unbias anaylysis of what was presented in the movie.

        I too think that Thrive is full of shit, it features david icke so it clearly was never meant to be taken seriously. if so why the hell use icke??

        However i think you are also full of shit, many of your ‘anylitical’ debunks are nothing more than a ‘yes it is’ ‘no it isnt’ style argument… tedious and unproductive.

        The mere fact that many of us are even reading your capitalist bias debunk page is that we are willing to take into account both sides of the story, explore all the informaton, and make up our own mind about what we find.

        You started with the perspective of attempting to debunk whatever was presented to you, that is your job, therefore you will only ever give one dangerously shallow view, that conspiracy theories are bulls**t and should not be given attention… Im sure john f kennedy famously warned us about people like you.

  11. Luke says :

    @ a rational person. Your sterotyping is immature, unconstructive and only serves to show your lack of intelligence to string together somthing of any kind fo value, this may aswell be christians arguing with muslims as to who is telling the truth and using thier comon sense, and the truth is none of you are, i am yet to see anyone not cherrypick the info that supports thier own view.

    oh and none of the statements in johns last comment are untrue and some key points are very well articulated.

    So i ask you this… do you personally mr rational thinker belive that fractonal banking is beneficial to humanity? Do you think it is right that taxpayers should have to bail out collapsing PRIVATE banks that leant 9 times more money than they possesed?

    i keenly await your rational veiw on this matter

    • a rational person says :

      i keenly await my foot in your ass, nutbag. you sound like a fucking ron paultard with your stupid ranting shit about “fractional banking”…nobody except paultards gives a shit about fractional banking…when u learn economics from a yutube video this is the stupid shit u come up with. i wouldn’t trust a paultard to tell me anything about economcs any more than id trust a coffee barista to fix my fucking car. so thats my rational view on this matter, how’d ya like it hoss?

      • conspiracykiller says :

        Luke said: “oh and none of the statements in johns last comment are untrue and some key points are very well articulated.”

        John said: “because it’s … [Thrive]… all rationally explained, and actually offers a practical SOLUTION”

        Actually this entire statement is complete bullshit which John said, not only is Thrive completely wrong on multiple things it claims, it’s solutions are lifted out of the zeitgeist movement, the green movement and new age thinking schools. The zeitgeist movement was also debunked and proven farcical over the last 5 years or more online, and all it’s so called solutions were merely feel good steps for conspiracy theorists who support green and new age ideals.

        Rational you said: “nobody except paultards gives a shit about fractional banking…”
        To be fair this also is not true, because zeitards, alex jones fanboys and various other none Paultards fall hook line and sinker for this crap. Though I agree it is definitely a big selling point for Paultards.

      • conspiracykiller says :

        Another retarded thing John said was this:

        “the proposed world in thrive is not only practical on the level of the whole, but uplifting on a personal level, the economy will be more stable than ever,”

        Oh really ? So because John believes Thrive, then it automatically without testing , evidence or facts becomes the best solution for the global economy ?

        Call me a skeptic here, but I doubt Thrive knows the needs of anyone outside their own social circles.

      • a rational person says :

        meh…paultards, zeitgest movement people, alex jones fanboys, thrive fans, theyre all the same, crank nutbags who don’t know shit about anything. not even worth trying to tell their shit apart, its all the same diarrhea of crazy.

  12. Luke says :

    muetus… i am interested in weather any of your own personal research gives you any hope in a sustainable future for mankind and if so what forms would it take? I am more interested in the awnswer to that question than any post or comment on here so pleae please respond, feel free to email me personally on this, or any links to threads you may have written or be writing on this. Burning to know, thanks

  13. Luke says :

    apologies for spelling, my keyboard doesnt like vowels either

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