Ancient Astronauts–Debunked!

One of the key claims in the Thrive movie, and in fact a major assumption on which the movie is based, is the idea of “ancient astronauts”—the supposition that extraterrestrial beings came to Earth in the early history of the human race and imparted knowledge to humans. As with most other claims and basic assumptions in Thrive, the idea of ancient astronauts is unsupported by facts and contrary to logic and critical reasoning. It is purely a faith-based proposition, and this article will explain why.

What Are “Ancient Astronauts” And What Does Thrive Claim About Them?

The idea of ancient astronauts is very popular in New Age circles. The basic idea is that supposedly aliens visited Earth thousands of years ago and gave humans knowledge that they wouldn’t otherwise have had. Thrive argues that part of this knowledge was the “torus” shape that Foster Gamble asserts is some sort of pattern for unlimited, free energy. This pattern is supposedly observable in the “Flower of Life” and virtually anything else in ancient or early modern art or architecture that involves 64 circles or really 64 of anything.

Much of the first quarter of Thrive either deals with ancient astronauts explicitly or implicitly. At 20:25 of the film, for instance, there is the explicit claim that alien intelligences were visiting Earth in UFOs in ancient times. Prior to that, however, there are various claims made, such as those by Nassim Haramein, of things that are supposedly of extraterrestrial origin, “proving” the ancient astronaut theory correct. At 20:10 in the film, Mr. Haramein states that the Egyptians, Incas and Mayans all talk about “sun gods” who come to Earth and teach them engineering, writing and all of their science. Evidently we (the human race) are supposed to get back to our extraterrestrial roots and discover the “gift” of free unlimited energy that these aliens supposedly gave us thousands of years ago.

What Is The Evidence That Thrive Relies On To Claim Ancient Astronauts Are Real?

The answer to this question is simple: none whatsoever. All of the claims made in Thrive about ancient astronauts are based on the same basic assumption: that ancient peoples couldn’t possibly have built this or that structure, or known about this concept or that concept, and therefore this “proves” that they must have been given these ideas by a superior intelligence.

That’s it. That’s all the Thrive movie has to support its claims about ancient astronauts. No evidence at all. Just an assumption followed by a supposition, neither of which are logically or factually supportable.

Example: at 18:45 of the film, Foster Gamble, finishing up his talk about the 64-circled “Flower of Life” design, says, “Is it a coincidence that this design appears on two different continents?” We have already seen on this blog that the Thrive movie’s claims about the “Flower of Life” being “burned into the structure of the rock” are false, and that the makers have acknowledged that they are false. Later, trying to link the number 64 with recent discoveries about human DNA, Gamble says of ancient peoples (at 20:02), “But how on earth did they know about it?”

This assumption is nothing less than a frontal assault on human intelligence. Mr. Gamble and Mr. Haramein are suggesting that ancient peoples were so stupid, simple-minded and helpless that they couldn’t have come up with anything worthwhile unless that knowledge was given to them by aliens.

There is also another incorrect assumption lying behind this one: that knowledge of science and technology in the modern world is always a perfectly linear expansion, that nothing that has ever been known or discovered in human history has ever been lost or forgotten, and that modern understandings of science and engineering are the sina qua non of intelligence. That is to say, if we can’t explain how the Egyptians built a pyramid in terms roughly analogous to understanding of the processes of building the Empire State Building, this precludes the possibility that the pyramids could have been built by humans.

Although it appeals to an extraterrestrial designer rather than a divine one, ancient astronaut theories are similar in reasoning (or lack thereof) to young-earth creationism and “Intelligent Design.” Right away this should tell you that ancient astronauts are not a rational explanation for the concepts or creations of ancient peoples.

Where Do Modern “Ancient Astronaut” Theories Come From?

Ancient astronauts, as the idea is commonly understood in the circles of New Age believers that are evidently Thrive’s target audience, burst into popular culture in 1968 with a pseudoscientific book called Chariots of the Gods? by Erich von Däniken, which is still in print 44 years later. This virtually fact-free book argues that ancient structures such as Stonehenge and the Nazca Lines are too advanced to have been built by ancient peoples, and thus must have been constructed by aliens. Probably the best debunking of von Däniken is this article written by John T. Omohundro way back in 1976 which takes apart both von Däniken’s supposed “evidence” and his faulty reasoning. A more concise criticism can be found on the Skeptic Dictionary page on von Däniken, which states:

“[M]ost of von Däniken’s evidence is in the form of specious and fallacious arguments. His data consists mainly of archaeological sites and ancient myths. He begins with the ancient astronaut assumption and then forces all data to fit the idea. For example, in Nazca, Peru, he explains giant animal drawings in the desert as an ancient alien airport. The likelihood that these drawings related to the natives’ religion or science is not considered. He also frequently reverts to false dilemma reasoning of the following type: ‘Either this data is to be explained by assuming these primitive idiots did this themselves or we must accept the more plausible notion that they got help from extremely advanced peoples who must have come from other planets where such technologies as anti-gravity devices had been invented.’”

These ideas weren’t new even in 1968. This article mentions some of the progenitors of the ancient astronaut theory, and also debunks some other examples from Chariots of the Gods?. But in New Age circles—people who want to believe spiritual “alternative explanations” for things rather than accept factual and rational explanations—von Däniken has been a hero for nearly half a century. Unfortunately, woo beliefs tend to be much more popular than dry facts of history and archaeology.

But Isn’t It True We Don’t Know How The Pyramids (Or Other Ancient Structures) Were Built?

Yes, in some cases it is true. But why does this lead to a binary choice—that if we can’t explain it, we must conclude that it was done by aliens? There is, in fact, another and much more likely possibility: that the ancient peoples did it themselves using means and procedures whose exact natures are no longer extant in the historical record.

Also, do not confuse “we don’t know how they were built” with “the building of these structures is impossible given what we know about physics and engineering.” Believers in ancient astronaut theories constantly confuse these two conclusions. We do not know how the pyramids were built, but the construction of them by human hands is certainly not impossible. Skeptic Dictionary puts it this way:

“We still wonder how the ancient Egyptians raised giant obelisks in the desert and how stone age men and women moved huge cut stones and placed them in position in dolmens and passage graves. We are amazed by the giant carved heads on Easter Island and wonder why they were done, who did them, and why they abandoned the place. We may someday have the answers to our questions, but they are most likely to come from scientific investigation not pseudoscientific speculation. For example, observing contemporary stone age peoples in Papua New Guinea, where huge stones are still found on top of tombs, has taught us how the ancients may have accomplished the same thing with little more than ropes of organic material, wooden levers and shovels, a little ingenuity and a good deal of human strength.”

What we lack is not an understanding of the scientific possibility of building these structures, but the historical records of the processes used to build them. For example, it is clearly not impossible for human beings to haul massive stones, such as those used to build the pyramids at Giza, many miles from a quarry to a construction site. We do it today with trucks and cranes, but many, many historical records exist of it being done in structures all over the world in the days before trucks and cranes. Therefore, we know it is possible. But with the pyramids, the historical record of how they were built has been lost. Did they use pulleys? Ramps? Did they haul the stones on donkeys? Did they use teams of slaves? We don’t know, but the fact that we don’t know doesn’t mean that any or all of these techniques were not or could not have been used.

See the difference? We don’t know how they were built is not the same as we believe that the building of these structures is impossible according to our understanding of science and engineering. Those are two very different concepts, but New Age believers conflate them constantly, and this conflation is the basis for ancient astronaut claims.

But What About Ancient Peoples’ Mythology About Sun Gods Who Taught Them Everything? Isn’t That Evidence of Alien Visitation?


A key part of ancient astronaut bunk is to warp and distort ancient peoples’ mythology and religious beliefs to try to claim that they really were talking about aliens and UFOs. Von Däniken does this in Chariots of the Gods? and Nassim Haramein does exactly the same thing at 20:10 of Thrive. Mr. Haramein claims that Egyptians, Mayas and Incas all had “sun gods” that supposedly taught them science and engineering. This claim is false at least with respect to the Egyptians and Mayas.

The ancient Egyptian sun god was called Ra. I looked up Ra in my Ultimate Encyclopedia of Mythology, by Arthur Cotterell & Rachel Storm, and while I found a very detailed article on Ra’s role as the daily-reborn sun god of Egypt, there was not a single word referring to him teaching science and technology to the Egyptians. You can browse some online resources about Ra (such as this one) and you will also see that there is no mention of Ra’s relationship to science and technology. I read quite a lot about Egyptian mythology in my early years, and I don’t recall ever hearing this. If anyone more versed in Egyptian mythology than I am can correct me if this is a misconception, I invite them to do so—but please come armed with a direct quotation from a reliable source before commenting.

Mayan mythology and religion is extraordinarily complex. In researching this article, as near as I can tell the Mayan sun god was called Kinich Ahau, and he was primarily associated with music and poetry—not science and engineering. Clearly there is no mention of this god, at least in the materials I could find, “teaching” ancient peoples how to build anything. Again, if anyone who knows Mayan mythology wishes to dispute this characterization, I’ll do an update to this blog with a correction—but again, come armed with direct quotations from reliable sources.

I have a friend who is very much into Mayan culture, and who just got back from an archaeological dig in Guatemala. (His blog is here). I asked him about the sun god stuff. His answer: it’s garbage. Mr. Haramein appears to be mistaken.

He does have a point, however, when it comes to the Incan sun god. That god was called Inti and was the most important god in the Incan pantheon. This site refers to legends that Inti “taught civilization” to Manco Cápac, the mythological founder of the Incan civilization. Presumably the teaching of “civilization” involves science and engineering.

But before you conclude that this is “evidence” that the Incas learned everything they knew from little green men from the Pleiades, let’s step back a moment. Mr. Haramein made the claim that all three civilizations had sun gods who taught them about science and technology. The facts show that only one of them had a belief similar to that. Mr. Haramein was also proven incorrect about the “Flower of Life” at the Temple of Abydos. Clearly, when it comes to making assertions about ancient history, he doesn’t seem to be correct very much of the time.

Even beyond the issue of Mr. Haramein’s credibility, however, think of something more basic: if these ancient peoples were visited by extraterrestrials, why would formulations of myths and religious stories be their primary means of recording this extraordinary event? These ancient peoples did write down their history. Take the Mayans, for instance. In addition to recording their mythology, they recorded the genealogies of their kings and historical events that occurred in their countries. You can see a translation of a Mayan codex, called Popul Vuh, which does exactly that, here. Why would these peoples have not recorded what actually happened?

That dovetails with my next point.

If Ancient Astronauts Helped Ancient Peoples Build Things in the Distant Past, How Come They Haven’t Helped Us Build Anything in Recorded History?

This is a question I’ve never heard a believer in ancient astronauts even attempt to answer. If aliens helped Egyptians build the pyramids thousands of years ago, how come they didn’t help us build, say, the Hoover Dam in the 1920s? Why do all these supposed alien interventions lie in periods of the past for which historical records are sketchy or nonexistent?

Let’s take another example of an awesome and mysterious structure, every bit as amazing as the pyramids: the cathedral of Hagia Sofia (St. Sofia, the Church of the Holy Wisdom) in Constantinople, now called Istanbul.

This, one of the largest and grandest cathedrals in the world, survived many earthquakes over the centuries that turned most other structures to rubble. For many years modern scientists and engineers had no idea how or why the builders of St. Sofia were able to “earthquake-proof” the building. Then, in 2002, the answer was discovered: the Byzantines who built St. Sofia in the 530’s A.D. invented earthquake-proof cement 1300 years before anyone else had thought of it.

Before 2002, then, St. Sofia was in precisely the same category as the Egyptian pyramids or the Nazca lines: “We have no idea how they did it!” Yet I am unaware of a single instance in which New Agers have alleged that aliens helped build St. Sofia.

Why not? The answer is very simple. St. Sofia was built in recorded history. There are lots of written records relating to its construction in 532 A.D. We even know the names of the architects: Isidore of Miletus and Anthemius of Tralles. In short, we know that aliens weren’t involved in building St. Sofia because none of the historical records relating to the construction of the cathedral mention them.

This fact is proof positive of how and why the “We have no idea how they did it, so it must be aliens” reasoning is inherently faulty. We know for a fact that humans built St. Sofia without help from Antares or Alpha Centauri. There was something about how they built it that we did not know, at least until 2002, and that something was a marvel comparable only to modern techniques of modern earthquake-proof construction. Yet no one could take seriously the claim that because this marvel existed, it somehow “proved” that aliens must have been involved in its construction.

This means that the only candidates for alien construction projects are those for which we don’t already have detailed records of their construction. If, for example, a stone tablet was discovered in Egypt tomorrow with a complete record of how the Great Pyramid was constructed, and archaeologists verified the tablet as genuine, the Great Pyramid would suddenly be off the New Agers’ list of “proof” items for alien astronauts. This shows that alien astronaut claims can only thrive (pardon the expression) where there is no direct evidence to refute them. This is a classic telltale sign of faulty reasoning.

Aren’t You Being Unfair And Closed-Minded By Refusing To Accept The Possibility That Aliens May Have Interacted With Humans In The Past? I Mean, You Should Be Open To All Possibilities, Right?

Many defenders of Thrive who have come to this blog to comment have taken me to task for denouncing this or that possibility involving woo subjects like UFOs or crop circles, or conspiracy theories like the “Global Domination Agenda,” as if I am somehow being unfair and closing the door on potential understanding by insisting on verifiable facts and logical reasoning. This criticism totally misses the point and again reinforces the faith-based belief system of Thrive’s target audience.

Personally, I would be delighted if historical or archaeological evidence of extraterrestrial visitation came to light. It would undoubtedly be the greatest discovery in the history of the human race. I personally do think it is likely that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. However, this supposition—and it is no more than a supposition—does not justify a belief that these extraterrestrial beings are visiting Earth in UFOs, because there is no credible evidence that this is in fact happening. Not only is there no credible evidence of extraterrestrial visitation in modern times, but the supposed “evidence” for extraterrestrial visitation in the past is even thinner.

Why, if aliens visited humans in the past, should the evidence of these visitations be so oblique and attenuated? If it really happened, shouldn’t it be unmistakable? Again—why didn’t Cheops, the builder of the Great Pyramid, erect a stone tablet stating, “I just want to leave this stone behind to thank Zorky and Bloopblop from the planet Galinka for all their help in building my wonderful pyramid”? If it really happened, wouldn’t there be ample evidence of it? And in the absence of such convincing evidence, is it really that unreasonable to conclude that it did not happen?

I believe in the human race, the intelligence of the human species, and the boundless ingenuity of humanity. I seem to believe in these things more than Foster Gamble and Nassim Haramein do. I believe that a bunch of very intelligent men and women, born in Egypt thousands of years ago, were clever enough to figure out a way to build the Great Pyramid, and if we modern peoples could see how they did it, we would be extremely surprised and intrigued by their ingenuity. Foster Gamble and Nassim Haramein do not believe that Egyptians were smart enough to do this; they’d rather believe that these people were pathetic and helpless and could only have done what they did if aliens helped them.

I believe that artists, engineers and artisans across many different cultures, in many different countries, in many different eras, were smart enough to come up with the idea of a flower-like design with 64 interlocking circles independently of each other. This is not a “coincidence.” Is it really that hard? Is it so far beyond the realm of possibility that one ancient person in Egypt came up with a 64-circle flower design and thought, “Gee, that’s pretty—I think I’ll paint it on the wall,” and then someone else in China hundreds of years later had the same idea and also thought it was pretty? Why does this stretch any sort of credulity to believe this?

But Foster Gamble and Nassim Haramein do not believe this. They believe people in Egypt and China—civilizations that gave us paper and fireworks, had running water in their houses, and explored much of the ancient world—were too stupid to do this without the help of aliens.

I believe that a couple of ordinary yahoos from rural England, with no advanced training in engineering or mathematics, working with boards, measuring tapes and other simple tools, can and regularly do create magnificent, geometrically perfect crop circles on a regular basis. In fact, I can prove that they do. But Foster Gamble and Nassim Haramein do not believe this. They believe people are too stupid to figure out how to flatten some wheat stalks and throw some magnetized particles around to fool the gullible.

Most sadly—and here is the real tragedy of Thrive—Foster Gamble and Nassim Haramein do not seem to believe in the capacity and ingenuity of the human species to improve its present condition. They don’t think we can end global warming, clean up the environment or improve the quality of life for many of the world’s people on our own, the same way we have solved many other problems, by using science and reason and calling upon the infinite creativity of the human spirit. No—the whole point of Thrive is that we, the human race, are too stupid and corrupt to do these things, and we must instead rely on magical technology supposedly given to us by extraterrestrials in order to solve these problems.

That’s their message. Humanity is doomed, and we always have been. Hell, according to Gamble and Haramein, as well as some commenters on this blog, we’re too stupid to figure out how to build crop circles correctly! But that doesn’t matter. Aliens will sail down from the skies to our rescue. As long as we don’t let those evil Rockefellers and the Federal Reserve take over.

Seen in this light, Thrive’s dogged insistence on the alien astronaut hypothesis is not only silly and illogical—it is downright insulting.

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164 responses to “Ancient Astronauts–Debunked!”

  1. Grant Markham says :

    THANK YOU for debunking this bullshit, it does a great disservice to the accomplishments of the Mayan andf Incan peoples and it deserves the shredding you gave it here. Excellent job.

    • muertos says :

      No problem. Just a warning, now that you’ve made this comment, prepare to be denounced by people who (unlike you) have not actually seen and studied the cultures and artifacts of some of these civilizations, and who will say you’re a closed-minded fool for not believing that the Mayan temple in Guatemala that you just spent the holidays excavating was actually built by the Mayans and not by aliens.

      • Grant Markham says :

        Personally, I hope they bring it. I hate this kind of intelectually dishonest garbage.

      • The KIng says :

        Seriously- that’s your debunking- the Hagia Sofia? Do you how the Hagia Sofia REALLY survived all those earthquakes? It was underwent major repairs, several times after suffering major damage.

      • The KIng says :

        Bringing it: It took five years, ten months and four days, from February 23rd 532 to December 27th 537. During the dedication ceremony, Emperor Justinian put aside formalities of state and entered the Church excitedly, to say a prayer of thanks to God for allowing him to fulfill his dearest wish. He cried with pride, remembering the temple in Jerusalem “Oh, Solomon, I have surpassed thee”.

        Later, the Church was damaged many times by earthquakes and fires, and had to be repaired and reinforced.

        On August 15th 553, January 14th 557 and May 7th 559, earthquakes destroyed the eastern side of the dome. The damage was repaired by the nephew of the original architect, Isidorus. He increased the height of the dome by 2.65 metres and built buttresses in the form of towers to support the dome.

        On February 9th 869, during the reign of Emperor Basil I (867-886), an earthquake damaged the western side of the building. It was repaired in 870. On October 25th 986, a violent earthquake resulted in the collapse of the western apse and caused partial damage to the dome. The Church had to be closed until the architect Tridat finished repairing it in 994.

        In 1204, the Church was sacked by the Fourth Crusaders. During the Palaeologian age, Emperor Michael VIII (1261-1282) had Hagia Sophia repaired by the architect Ruchas, and the buttressesin the south-west were added at that time.

        In 1317, during the reign of Emperor Andronicus II, the north-eastern and south-western walls were reinforced on the exterior by pyramid-shaped buttresses.

        In 1348, the eastern half of the dome collapsed and was afterwards repaired. In the first half of the 15th century, travellers and other sources described Hagia Sophia as being in a state of disrepair.

    • Skepticalskeptic says :

      Totally agreed dude. I tend to believe more in the power of human ingenuity. Some of these archeological finds are sheerly, utterly, and truly incredible.

      Rather than aliens, I like to wonder something else: “What if we aren’t as “advanced” a civilization as we think we are, and that there is a sh**load about our own history we don’t know about. Maybe even machines? Or other technology?

      Speculation of course. Its fun to wonder though.

      • RinoTheBouncer says :

        I totally agree with this.
        Maybe it’s aliens who build civilizations long ago and maybe it’s us.

        Maybe there were sky scrappers in babylon and those ancient monuments were more like a GRAND decoration that they used to entertain themselves. Like a spa or whatever it was. Maybe a major catastrophe like a meteor or anything like that took place and all this got destroyed. Think about it, if some major national crisis occurs and we all just die. Will there be any computers left? we don’t even know what could’ve happened that wiped them out.

  2. Elm Nehmara says :

    I’ve always been interested in ancient cultures and when I was a child I was interested in the Mayan and Aztec cultures and their ingenuity in creating their pyramids. Same thing with the Egyptians.

    I was even more impressed when I took my art history class that covered everything from the Paleolithic era to the beginning of the Renaissance and was intrigued by our capability of building things that seemed way ahead of time, such as the Pantheon, the Collesium, the zaggaruats of the Babylonian culture and of course the Hagia Sophia that you mentioned, which I believe was a mosque before it became part of the Orthodox Church.

    Yeah, when I was younger I believed in the “ancient astronauts” thing but I grew out of it and after taking this class as it was required, I was just amazed at how we humans can build such things.

    • muertos says :

      I agree with the spirit of your comment, but you have a factual inaccuracy. St. Sofia was a Christian (Orthodox) church from its dedication in 537 A.D. until May 29, 1453, the day the (Muslim) Turks conquered Constantinople. They turned it into a mosque. Therefore, the facts were the reverse as you state them–it was an Orthodox church, then a mosque, then (after, I think the late 19th century) a museum. This does not affect the main thrust of your comment however, for which I thank you.

    • Gary Smith says :

      Actually It was a Christian Church Built by the first Eastern Roman Emperor Constantine after the fall of Rome to the “barbarians” ( that’s another story about them being barbarians). Then much later on when the Turks invaded the Eastern empire,they sacked Constantinople but left the church intact and converted it into a mosque.

      • Gary Smith says :

        oops, sorry I didn’t see your reply and thanks for the dates. Also agree with the fundementals of this persons response too.

  3. Robert Kent says :

    If ancient astronauts really did build the pyramids, why didn’t they teach us how to build computers and spacecraft? Why don’t we find electronics buried with the Pharaohs? Why didn’t King Tut have an iPhone?

    If Area 51 really is a storage facility for alien technology, why is the government still denying its existence? What would they have to lose by admitting everything? Think about it. If we found a crashed UFO over 50 years ago, we should have been able to figure it out by now. Yet we’re still going into space with crude chemical rockets.

    If these people would just use their brains for once….

    • RinoTheBouncer says :

      They wouldn’t tell us because there will be anarchy. Governments are busy keeping people silent like sheep and avoid getting into the “Religion Vs. Science” kinda conflict. Some will say this is a demonic possession or attack while others will view it scientifically as aliens coming here. Besides, Nobody knows what kind of deals are the governments doing with those aliens.

      I’m not saying that my life is reliant on these thoughts. They’re just thoughts that I have and I’m not really obsessed with them but I certainly do believe that some sort of extraterrestrial beings have visited earth at certain points whether in the past or the present time.

      Bear in mind that I’m a religious person yet I do believe in science and I do believe in a mixture of creation vs. evolution theories together.

      • Gary Smith says :

        Evolution is not a Theory anymore. its been proven as fact. Unfortunately when evolution is quoted its quoted as Darwin’s Theory of Evolution, ( which is wrong anyway as it was his Theory of natural Selection ) which it was at the time, his theory. Theories can become fact you know, and in this case it has. Its like the “intelligent design” stuff that came out of the bible belt of the USA to make creationism sound more scientific, which it happily failed to do. If anything Creationism is a theory, taken from ancient writings but never proven and please don’t quote “faith” because that then debunks your own statement as “faith” is a belief not fact.

      • alysdexia says :

        Gary Smith, dolt, evolution is still a theory as it has been proven. If it weren’t proven, it’d not be a theory. Creationism is not a theory.

    • Meeji says :

      Because it would debunk every major religion in the world and chage the basis of which are world and order of government are built upon since it changes the widely believed idea that we God’s ultimate creation in the universe which is taught by christianity and other religions.

      • Fortruthnotaname says :

        The biblical nefilim of the old testament..!! An advanced and scientific culture of ancient astronauts, come down to earth in fantastical contraptions.. Early man is genetically manipulated until the perfect model is created.. The adam of the red earth.. Man multiplys and under the watch of these creators of men and makers of civilizations decree mans fate, and rule over lands with ‘divine’, instruments and unseen vocal communications and the like, ancient mans mind and wonder went through an evolution all its own.. The old testament explains; the nefilim were apon the earth in those days and thereafter too; the sons of the gods who cohabited with the daughters of the adam, and they bore children to them. They were the mighty ones of eternity,the people of the shem.. Science from the stars has created modern man on earth and that over time has created religion all over the world and most have very similar storys and locations.. Science is religions spaw.. Two things from genesis.. In the plural from hebrew biblical times.. Let US make man in our image, after our likeness( ch. 1 v.26) and, ye shall be as GODS, knowing good and evil (ch.3 v.5) the biblical term knowing, to know ones wife, was the realization of sexual awakening.. Before that.., the adam was all alone in edin, and had no ‘help meet’ for him.. So, the lord caused a deep sleep to come over him and removed a rib.. And closed up adams flesh thereof..from the rib , came forth woman..!! Genetically modified man .. And sumarian and other text state that before the adam, 7 male and 7 female hybrid beings unable to procreate were first brought forth.. Obviously not included in our religious books .. Much more can be looked into in this subject and any other related to the ancient astronaught thought.. Many snippets of biblical text identify names places and lines of parentage and only the languages changed .. Remember babel.. The language confused.. Didnt help..any way… I just cant see a pack of donkeys or 1000 men, or even the largest crane on earth today, lift the trillithon stones at baalbek..

      • anticultist says :

        The fact you underestimate your predecessors abilities and prefer to believe science fiction stories explain their feats of ingenuity is 1 of 2 things.

        1: You are completely dumb and ignorant to history, geology and have not looked into the matter beyond the surface claims of cranks.

        2: You are willfully ethnocentric and are spreading racist beliefs and stupidity because life just isn’t entertaining enough for you without aliens and neanderthal slaves.

  4. shortskirtlongjacket says :

    Why don’t they ask themselves: if aliens taught us how to do things, then who told the aliens how to do those things in order to become an advanced civilisation? Aliens from another planet? Okay, and who taught the aliens from another planet? This would mean, that the “earliest” aliens would have taught themselves.

    • rock says :

      yeah…maybe like in a hundred million years …and then fast tracked things for the rest of us

  5. jmy says :

    I appreciated all you do

  6. Malito says :

    I do believe alien life forms exist someplace in the universe, perhaps some single cell form or a form so advanced that it can do anything or lift anything by he power of its mind. But to believe that a group of aliens cruising by our solar system stops simple to help some farmers to build a structure Its ridicules.
    Modern man is too busy to understand how much time an ancient man had in his hands. Enough time to come up and even perfection any skill. The red pyramid of Giza, it is my understanding that it took them 30 years to build (Correct me if I’m wrong. I believe Mr. Haramein said 20, unless he was referring to another one). In that time period, and knowing that it had been done before, I do believe the Egyptians had the skills to make the pyramid with such precision as they did. These people made such an advanced civilization out of just sand and water (River Nile), that we are still talking about them thousands of years after they are gone. Same goes for the Incas, Mayas and even the Nazca Indians. No one alive knows why or how the Nazca Indians made the nazca lines. We simply don’t understand it. So it’s easier to think that aliens helped them. It is also very egotistical of us to think that modern man, with our modern technology and engineering, are the only time period capable of doing such structures like the pyramids. Well then how come we haven’t done anything like that. We don’t have a reason for it? Well they did. They were constructing a tomb for their God. They had a purpose to make something so outstanding and with pride. Thousands of men working for decades on this project didn’t need the help of “12 feet men with large heads and more advanced technology”.
    As far as I can tell all your information is correct. Good work on your research and your article is outstanding. I am looking forward to reading more from you.

  7. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Hi Muertos,

    I think you will like this point by point comparison between a rational thinker and a paranoid thinker. You could re-title the columns: Muertos and Foster Gamble

    The author is Kenneth Rahn, Emeritus Prof of Oceanography at the U of RI. Do visit his main conspiracy page here:

    The Academic JFK Assassination Site
    Stressing physical evidence and critical thinking

  8. Josh says :

    Good stuff, Muertos!
    The Maya statements are all very fair (give your Archy buddy a golden star), and the Inca stuff looks good, however, I’d add that we DO know how much of the pyramids were made and many of the great public works that American civilizations built (human energy, coercion, and time – usually gets stuff done, though maybe not in Congress). I wish I was an Egyptologist, and had experience decoding hieroglyphs. I love it that Western mythstories always take sun worship as a “sun god.” Negative! Much of the “god”-complex comes from first-hand accounts of Europeans attempting to make sense of cultures by squeezing them into the frames of reference that they already understood. The sun’s energy and the process of acquiring that energy, became a sun god with solely masculine qualities. Not the case. The thing that sucks is that there is a written history there that creative “documentarians” with money neglect to read. Very good review/debunkification!
    P.S. Does Thrive rely on Alexander’s sun worship, or Greek mythos/history? Please tell me they talk about the ancient battery.
    P.P.S. Though I can only speak for the few cultures that I have studied (Nahuatl, Mixtec, Zapotec, Classic and Post-Classic Mayan, Quechua, Aymara, Chumash, Numic, Dine, Puebloan, Algonquian, Iroquoian, and some other Southern and Southwestern U.S. groups), every single one of their origination/cosmological/creation narratives begin with hard solid earth. The underworld was so much more important to their understanding of our existence. American pyramids, kivas, mounds were built over or near caves that connected their technology of how the world works with their origins. The Andean empires were forced to compete with these stories when establishing their sun temples, too. The religious complex surrounding the Inca and his wife were an attempt by the Quechua government to coopt (in a way, like Haramein and Gamble) preexisting concepts of earth and sun worship to their own ends. They built there structure and stories by rearranging caves and the underworld into an understandable creation/origination myth. “Woo”-ers might link this to some amazing space craft that brought the lot of us here, oh so many worlds ago, which we have yet to locate any where on this fine earth. But it could also be exactly what indigenous peoples of the Americas wanted it to mean, and that is the axis mundi that penetrates the sky and the underworld, tying humanity to the animated energy that moves above and below. If I’m wrong, may Tzitzimitl descend from above and devour my flesh, or I could just wait a 11 months, right?

  9. nqza says :

    Wow — Thank you SO much for putting all of this together.
    Anyone who watches the movie “Thrive” and afterwords, has a recurring thought of “wtf?” swirling around in their head for hours owes you a huge debt of gratitude.

    The information on your blog is very well organized, and presents logical and rational arguments to the outraegous claims made in the movie, which are mostly baseless, and not to mention presented without any evidence *whatsoever*

    Although — besides the wackjob UFO \ David Icke conspiracy theory nonsense; the main problem I have with “Thrive” is the fact that they keep talking about all the problems we face as a species; yet they don’t present one shred of “solution” to solve the problems they talk about.

    I’ll give you an easy example — they claim that so called *inventors* of free energy machines and other miracle-cure devices (example: rife machine cures cancer) have had their work confiscated in raids by governments and say that the even the knowlege itself of how these machines work is suppresed.

    I have a solution to this problem! Post the schematics to a “free-energy” machine or a device that can cure cancer on Wikileaks. They will gladly host the information, and then everyone in the world will have access to it — and the supposed results can be replicated and independent verified.

    • muertos says :

      they keep talking about all the problems we face as a species; yet they don’t present one shred of “solution” to solve the problems they talk about.

      Oh, but they do! Audit the Federal Reserve! Vote for Ron Paul! Expose the Global Domination Agenda! Cure your cancer with twigs and sticks instead of proven medical science! And did I mention vote for Ron Paul?

      I’m being sarcastic, of course. But that is mostly what these people believe.

      Thank you for your comments and your compliments. I appreciate them!

      • nqza says :

        Now now, leave RP out of this 🙂
        I take offense when he gets drawn into wack-job stuff, sorry 😛
        I think it’s more or less the wackjob crowd leans toward his ideas because he tends to make personal liberties a piority.

      • Karolyn says :

        Medical treatment does kill. I would take twigs and sticks any day over chemicals. It has worked for me!

      • Gary Smith says :

        this is a reply to Karolyn about the twigs and sticks. One- most modern medicines are originally based on natural organic compounds, some still use the ingredients first obtained from plants or whatever until the compounds that treat the illness can be synthesised and thus cheaper and less destructive to the planet. Two- yes I do believe that some “alternative therapies” do have an effect or may work, but you also have to consider the power of the human mind ( this also applies to building pyramids). The mind with a positive attitude and a determination can do unbelievable things and many a positive person has recovered from cancers or put them in remission. BUT you also have to consider that sometimes over but generally about 30% of all remedies have a placebo effect. In other words if you believe it will work , it will. This has been proven over and over again in drug trials where 1 in 2 people are given a sugar pill and the others the real drug. yet 30% of the sugar pill patients recover just as well as the active ingredient. So well done, you do have a power to help yourself. This is fact not fiction. The only thing I will say is that drug companies have to go through stringent tests before they are approved for human use. unfortunately that is not the case with Alternative Medicines. I could put chamomile tea on the market as a calmative to help you sleep and not have to test anything except that it is chamomile . Not very factual or scientific or even sensible to me. but good on you for recovering from whatever ailment you had Karolyn .

  10. Kev says :

    Good post! Eat it, Tsoukalos 😀

  11. Lindebergarn says :

    Just wanted to compliment you for your research on the subject and showing people that the picture is in fact larger than they believe it is.

    I see myself as a logica thinking person and I do take the time to study up on things myself before jumping on the bandwagon.

    I myself find the ancient alien astronaut theory very interesting, but at the end of the day it’s still just a theory, not a proven fact. Even if I find it very interesting, I do believe we are giving to much credit to the theory and not to the human race in general.
    Whenever I hear ancient alien astronauts theorists talk about their reasonings I just hear ”The human race is stupid”. I believe strongly that we do underestimate the mental capacity our ancestors had and just assume that just because we don’t know how things work, they should not even be able to. If you think about it, some of the most groundbreaking inventions were taught up several hundreds or thousands of years ago and we are only just today keeping building on it. It’s great that you write about it in your blog and give credit where credit is to be given.

    Thanks for your words, they were most interesting to read.

  12. human as you says :

    It makes me very happy to see a lively discussion taking place about these so very important topics that we all care so much about. My humble personal opinion is based on a very simple thing… my own personal experience and what I have seen with my own eyes. What you will read applies to me and to me alone and it is not meant to sway anybody or convince anyone, it is just my experience. Right now as I write this there are Special Forces from the military doing “training exercises” in downtown L.A and other locations in coordination with other police agencies… I mean that alone should raise like the biggest red flag ever… last week the chemtrails in L.A went into overdrive, I personally counted 60 flights on 1 day alone on the part of the sky that I could see, it went on all day and into the late afternoon… I have seen personally some of the ancient drawings, artifacts and have had experiences with medicines from the jungle and I have experienced things that only I can attest to. I have meditated a UFO into reality, I have seen them many many times. I believe that we can be here all day trying to prove each other wrong, it does not matter because if you have never experiences what I have experienced then you are correct UFOs do not exist.. TO YOU. It is a personal experience, it is not about convincing everyone around you, our realities are all correct because that is what we believe and I do believe and have seen UFOs and you do not and have not seen them and we are both right… LOVE TO ALL

    • russell says :

      Bunkum. So if I imagine a dragon riding a pink unicorn, that’s suddenly reality? Nonsense.

    • Chadwick says :

      Wow, this sounds a lot like a Christian talking about his personal experience with Jesus Christ. “I dont care that’s there’s no evidence, I have my personal experience.”
      Another example that conspiracy theories, like religion, is faith based.

      • rock says :

        i wonder if he imagines someone instructing him to sacrifice his first born son, whether he would still undoubtedly beleive…or maybe think it was the effect of burning to much forest twigs

    • Wyboth says :

      Ayahuasca is bad for you, just saying.

  13. russell says :

    Occams razor. The simplest explaination that takes in all the facts is usually the correct one. Thousands of men over decades could have built these structures. In fact they have found large stones that were intended for the pryamids at the bottom of the nile. I suppose the aliens were just untidy?
    This all comes from the same frame of mind as a lot of religious thinking- some being greater than us will come from the sky and save us from ourselves. It’s just lazy and futile and gets us nowhere….

    • Beenie says :

      Hold on, who put these ‘intentions’ on these stones? Because that’s verging on a faith based comment.

      • Joel T says :

        People put the intentions on the stones. If you find a worked stone, you may assume that it was worked for a reason. If that stone came from the sme quarries as the pyramids , was cut in the same style, shape, and size of those in the pyramids, and is along a likely route from the quarry to the pyramids, then the original intent for the stone is clear.

    • Gary Smith says :

      And it allows those who “believe” in a greater being, to not take responsibility for their own actions. “Oh, I killed a thousand people but its alright because God will forgive me,” or God told me to, well in that case I’d say you needed medicating for Schizophrenia if you are hearing voices. I was brought up catholic ( I managed to get excommunicated thankfully) because at 14 I realised that how, if I “sinned” could another man forgive me and wipe away the sin? After all shouldn’t i take responsibility for my actions, like I was being taught by my parents? From then on I refused to go to confession. Got into awful trouble, because it was a sin not to attend. if I could see the hypocrisy as a 14 year old why the blazes cant supposed adults. Especially the new capitalistic garbage that’s being spouted these days, purely to take money from people who cant see the truth or be happy to just being Human.

      • Joel T says :

        Gary, you are mistaking forgiveness for irresponsibility. The two aren’t the same. Forgiveness is a part of sanctification, the process of becoming holy, but it doesn’t eliminate responsibility. Indeed, in Christian culture, such as i hagiographies (which express Christian ideals, though not history), there’s a long tradition of saints going back and righting the wrong of their past lives. This is in the bible as well, as represented in the story of Zacchaeus (tax collector, met Jesus, made restitution for past gouging).

        People who avoid responsibility by hiding behind religion tend to be the people who simply avoid responsibility regardless of what tools or excuses they use.

      • Wyboth says :

        Well, firstly, at least as is believed in the Episcopal denomination, God will only forgive you if you are sorry for what you did and you make an effort not to do it again, which is pretty much taking responsibility for it. If you kill a thousand people, there’s no way you’re going to be forgiven without some pretty massive repentance. If you think that it was okay to kill the people just because God will forgive you, then God won’t forgive you. You would first have to recognize that, no, it was not okay to kill 1,000 people, then you would have to be really sorry about it before you would be forgiven.

        Also, in the Episcopal Church, we don’t have confession, and it isn’t a sin to miss anything church related.

  14. shirly says :

    Your all the “norm”. Sorry for mankind your minds are so small.

    • muertos says :

      My mind is “small” because I don’t believe in conspiracy theories or demonstrably false pseudoscience?

      • Eric Foster says :

        Your mind is small because you claim that the ancient astronaut theory is demonstrably false. I am very much a proponent of the theory, yet I will, of course, allow for the possibility that I’m wrong. If you had a more open mind, you wouldn’t claim that it is false (demonstrably), you’d simply assert that the evidence is insufficient to convince you. The truth is, you can no more conclusively prove that it’s untrue, than I can that it is. Your position is one of arrogance and condescension. As a basis for intelligence and wisdom, one must understand that possibility is truly limitless; The more you think you know, the less you actually know.
        I would like to know how you would explain the Baalbek stone. A 1,200 ton rectangular prism, carved perfectly out of one piece of rock, and moved at least a half mile, and hoisted into place. With all of our modern technology, we currently have no way to do this. I don’t believe our ancestors were stupid. As far as I know, neither do most AA theorists. I do, however, find it hard to believe that they were able to achieve this astronomically difficult task without the help of some unknown, advanced technology. Seriously, think about it. Why wouldn’t they just cut the stone into smaller pieces. Wouldn’t that make transporting and assembly infinitely easier? Is this mystery somehow, demonstrable for you? If not, then neither is the your supposed debunking of the ancient astronaut theory. I look forward to your reply.

      • anticultist says :

        ” I do, however, find it hard to believe that they were able to achieve this astronomically difficult task without the help of some unknown, advanced technology. ”

        And that is why you will never be taken seriously, because your belief is completely irrelevant and backed by thin air. You have no evidence that any technology ever existed or was utilised, or even have evidence of its actual use on any site, material or continent on the planet.

        All you have are beliefs, which is why your position is demonstrably false.

        You can not demonstrate it to be true, hence the claim made by Muertos stands.

      • Joel T. says :

        Foster, it isn’t that the evidence is insufficient to convince Muertos (who isn’t active in the debunking community anymore, so probably wont see your request for a response). It’s that there is no evidence at all.

        Consider your own example of the Baalbek stone. The only “evidence” that you present to indicate that it has an alien origin is that you don’t understand how it was done. Lack of evidence isn’t evidence in itself. Without the presupposition of the ancient astronaut idea, there is nothing that would lead one to that conclusion.

        While we don’t know exactly how the stone was moved, it was well within the technological abilities of people at that period. It was carved at a quarry that was at a higher elevation, than had a fairly good path to the site, etc. Pullies, rollers, and other technology available would have allowed roughly 750 workers to transport the entire thing. The fact that there are two similarly sized stones still at the quarry further indicates a human, rather than alien, involvement.

        As for why the people wouldn’t have cut it into smaller pieces, the reason is probably that it was meant to be part of a trilithon (common structures in the ancient world). It would have defeated the purpose to have smaller, easier to manuever, blocks.

        Also, as a side note, while modern society generally doesn’t move things that heavy, it’s a matter of economics more than ability. The Hotel Montgomery, for example, weighs in at 4816 Tons. It was moved in a single piece, but the total cost was $25 million.

      • ab says :

        Eric Foster wrote “I would like to know how you would explain the Baalbek stone. A 1,200 ton rectangular prism, carved perfectly out of one piece of rock, and moved at least a half mile, and hoisted into place”

        Transporting the Trilithon Stones of Baalbek: It’s About Applied Physics, Not Ancient Aliens

        Once again, human know how and ingenuity triumphs.

      • Eric Foster says :

        I’d like to respond to the responses of my comment, but your responses lack a reply button. So I’m gonna reply to the same comment I replied to originally, and hope y’all see it. This comment is for: anticultist, Joel T. and ab.
        Anticultist, everything you wrote in your response is driven by emotion and lacks any practical logic. You can claim that I’ll never be taken seriously, but I know, just as there are those who don’t take me seriously, there are also those that do. Also, just because something isn’t demonstrably true, does not make it demonstrably false. This is a simple, DEMONSTRABLE fact. It is possible to believe something without being able to prove it conclusively to someone else. For me, the pieces all fit together like a very large and mysterious puzzle. It takes an open mind to see the big picture. My point, however, was and is not to prove to you or Muertos that the ancient astronaut theory is true, it’s to challenge you (or Muertos) to prove it demonstrably false. Simply stating that it is so is insufficient, and ridiculous at this point. You can’t, and stating that it is is ignorant and arrogant. The claim by Muertos still lies, and neither you nor anyone else can prop it up.
        Joel T. and ab, thank you for the well researched and thought out replies. Obviously, I am of the perspective that anything is possible. As previously stated, I of course allow for the possibility that the ancients were actually able to pull this off. I will say, though, that I believe that the methods for moving objects of this mass a few hundred feet, and thousands of feet are different enough to make the comparison moot. I’m not interested in rambling off myriad examples in the hope of swaying either of you concerning the theory. Joel, I agree that lack of evidence concerning method of moving the stones does not necessitate alien involvement, nor did I state that it did. For proponents of the theory, it’s simply a talking point. The theory does not hinge on aliens moving this rock. As I said, my point is not to prove it true, it is more to prove it possible. Or at least not demonstrably false. This is the entire reason for my comment. One can claim that the Ancient Astronaut Theory lacks concrete proof and that proponents are making leaps of extrapolation, but you can’t claim it to be demonstrably false. If you think you can, then prove it. Telling someone that something they believe to be true is demonstrably false, is bold. If wrong, it’s arrogant and insulting. I believe Muertos to be arrogant and insulting to proponents of this theory. Interestingly, I found no where in this entire article or in any of his responses that proved the theory conclusively false.

      • a rational person says :

        oh jeezus. another stupid fucking nutbag. well, at least this one believes in new age woo shit instead of conspiracy bullshit, so i guess that’s something.

        listen hoss (eric foster), i don’t know muertos, i never talked to him, he’s long gone and most of the people commenting on this board (including me) started coming here after he left. so u want to know what hes thinking, email him…i think he gave his email address here a couple of places.

        but reading his blogs and his replies, i don’t think he would give a rats ass whether anyone thinks he’s being “arrogant” or “insulting” to stupid brain dead nutbags who believe in ridiculous bullshit like “ancient aliens”.

        and yes, he did demonstrate beyond any doubt that ancient aliens did not build the shit u nutbags say they built. maybe u missed the thing about st.sofia? if u did, just scroll up and u’ll find it…that proves this retarded bullshit about “ancient aliens” is total crap.

      • anticultist says :

        Eric Foster: If my response was driven by emotion I would have called you out for the complete fucktard you are, like so.

        However I gave you the benefit of the doubt and remained completely neutral, and stated exactly why you are a complete tool shed for believing in something without any evidence whatsoever.

        You have been given precise reasons why you are wrong by subsequent posters, which you have calmly brushed aside as if their rationale was meaningless and of no importance to your belief.

        You are yet another idiot in a long line of them who pass through here thinking they have some kind of superior belief system or powers of knowledge and observation than the rest of the academic world.

        News flash, you are just a wishy washy idiot who wants the world to function in a way that it doesn’t, there are no aliens building pyramids on the planet and never have been, you fucking idiot.

      • ab says :

        Eric Foster wrote “Obviously, I am of the perspective that anything is possible. As previously stated, I of course allow for the possibility that the ancients were actually able to pull this off.”

        Based on what you wrote after this statement, it’s very clear that you still don’t believe that humans were capable of such feats. You underestimate the intelligence, creativity, and ingenuity of our ancestors. You’re stuck on the concept that because you don’t understand how humans could move heavy stones across long distances or hoist them, that therefore, it must be the product of aliens. Even with the information I just posted, I get the impression that you either just perused through it quickly or ignored it altogether.
        Also, calling someone else arrogant, or small minded because you disagree with them does little to strengthen your position. There is a great deal of evidence on how many of the ancient structures were built, if you choose to spend the time to research it out. The link to the article I posted took me about 5 minutes on google.

      • Joel T. says :

        Eric, I think part of the problem is in how you define “demonstrably false.” The general understanding, when someone says that they can prove something, is that they mean that they can prove it beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt. In contrast, it seems that you are defining it as being able to prove something beyond a possible doubt, reasonable or otherwise.

        Ab’s link nicely proves, beyond a reasonable doubt, that people were responsible for the Baalbek stone. Aliens could possible still be involved. So could giants, spontaneous manifestations, ambulatory self-carving stone, and other things. But they’re all demonstrably false, because we have sufficient evidence to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that humans were responsible. We still might not know exactly how they did it, but that’s a different question. It doesn’t infringe on the fact that to suggest aliens were responsible is unreasonable.

        That’s the problem with the ancient astronaut idea: every claim it makes can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be false, largely through proving beyond a reasonable doubt that other things were responsible. As such, when, despite this, people still believe the ancient astronaut idea, they are engaging in unreasonable behavior, and it is perfectly reasonable to label that behavior as such. Muetros wasn’t being small minded, bold, arrogant, etc. He was being honest.

        Now, you yourself may have taken umbrage at the tone of response that you’ve received. There are reasons for that: people who believe in the ancient astronaut idea tend to be, well, unreasonable. It gives everyone who talks about it a bad rap, and in turn makes the rest of us very impatient. When you focus on possibility rather than rationality, and when you offer up red herrings as your talking points, it erases what little patience most have.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        I’d recommend to Eric Foster to actually research his claims before making them. In his example of the Baalbek stone, I was able to find a fairly simple explanation within seconds of searching:

        I strongly suggest you open your mind towards non-Eurocentric views as to how ancient architecture works.

      • anticultist says :

        These ancient astronaut piss ants refuse to believe academia when it comes to experiment and historical precedent, Their view of ancient cultural abilities is nothing short of racism. The ancient astronaut piss ants believe that they themselves somehow know more about the subject of transportation, manufacture, building and design than the actual cultures the stones came about in.

        I would like to see these ancient astronaut piss ants even try to quarry a stone with modern techniques, let alone with the techniques the ancient cultures utilised. I would expect nothing short of complete failure and lack of knowledge how to go about achieving it.

        They claim to know so much more and better, yet each and every one of these ancient astronaut piss ants has no clue about the techniques involved in either modern or ancient eras. They don’t even bother to put in the basic research into how things are achieved or possible. Instead they fill in the ignorant gaps about the subject with fantasy and ridiculous beliefs, telling themselves “If I don’t know how these buildings were created, I am damn sure those stupid ancient people didn’t know”

        News flash you ancient astronaut piss ants, those ancient people were a hell of a lot smarter than you retards when it comes to architecture, design and building.

      • Gary Smith says :

        Great response muertos

  15. Treok Walker says :

    You talk as if you are interested in sharing ideas, but all I see from you is basic mis-information.
    You say “I believe in the human race, the intelligence of the human species, and the boundless ingenuity of humanity. I seem to believe in these things more than Foster Gamble and Nassim Haramein do.”
    Yet, when it comes to so-called free energy, you totally dismiss it. You basically dismiss Nikola Tesla, with the lame comment that we have learned about him, as every conspiracy show has him in it, BUT,OF COURSE, you ignore the fact that for most of us, if not all of us, Tesla was NEVER mentioned in school, but we all heard of Edison. You seem to have no idea the importance Nikola Tesla has in our society.
    Tesla’s Genius was so profound, that when he was about to turn on the power at his brand new power plant, which he won the contract over Edison(at Niagra Falls I believe) even his engineers didn’t think it was going to work.
    You don’t believe in Human Genius. John Gatto does, and you think he is a fool as well. You say “Gamble states that the education system was set to create a docile, consumer and obedient workforce.(Gatto says this as well)
    I guess it’s not working.”
    Of course it’s working, but obviously people in power are afraid their power is slipping away, and so you are doing your best to keep people asleep. TOO BAD, IT’S NOT WORKING.

    • nqza says :

      Show me one free energy machine that works and does what it claims to do, or state one example of one ever working in controlled conditions with repeatable results.

      Also let’s say all the paranoia claims are true; that governments raid and steal equipment and schematics, etc. Why doesn’t someone upload the schematics of a (working; hint; most important part) free energy machine to wikileaks. They would gladly host the information. I will believe in it when I see it working.

      I also believe in human genius, physicists like michio kaku, hawking, einstein, hubble, carl sagan, etc — all of them who worked in their respective fields to advance our understanding of the world around us, most dealing with concepts so advanced that I can vaguely understand them on my best days.

      All of them claim free energy violates the laws of themodynamics as well.

      Shouldn’t that tell you something?

    • muertos says :

      Treok: what you forget is that I believe in things that have evidence to support them. There is evidence to support the conclusion that human beings built the pyramids, Mayan temples, Stonehenge etc. The only word we have that Nikola Tesla built these magical energy machines is the word of conspiracy nuts on the Internet. So yes, I do believe in the power of human potential. The builders of the pyramids and Stonehenge demonstrated, before all the world, what they were capable of doing. The evidence that they created these things is out there for everyone to see, still holding up after thousands of years. The evidence that Nikola Tesla built a magical energy machine–at least in the sense that conspiracy theorists believe that he did–does not exist. If he had done so–if he was truly as brilliant as conspiracy theorists claim he was–why would his invention not be as public, as open, as undeniable and irrefutable as the pyramids or Stonehenge actually are in real life?

      Don’t get me wrong, I believe firmly that Nicola Tesla was a brilliant and visionary scientist. What he actually created speaks for itself. I do not believe, and no one else should believe, that whatever else he created could have been suppressed by some “global domination elite,” which is, as I proved in my article, nonexistent anyway. Why do you want to sully the reputation of this great scientist by getting him mixed up with paranoid conspiracy theories? Why would you do that to such a great thinker, a great researcher, a great expander of human knowledge? Conspiracy thinking poisons everything it touches, and it offends me that you would poison the real-life contributions of Tesla by trumpeting him as some sort of icon for your bizarre and delusional conspiratorial belief system. Tesla, as a student of the scientific method, would agree that no scientific assertion is worth two hoots in hell unless it can be proven, explained and replicated. You should have faith in science, not in superstition or conspiracy thinking. My views on this subject are entirely consistent, and I stand by them.

      • Treok Walker says :

        You think Humans are too stupid to come up with energy sources other than oil. You are the one that ignored Tesla’s contributions to society, and your rhetoric isn’t fooling anyone with a brain. As I said, there is a reason none of us heard of Tesla in school but everyone heard of Edison, and of course, you ignore this important piece of information.
        baaaaaaa, baaaaaaa

    • Gruntfuttock says :

      Tesla was mentioned in my school. Tesla is an SI unit of magnetic flux density (Webber per meter squared – or something like that). But then I tried to learn about electromagnetism and science rather than paranoid second-hand beleifs.

  16. Treok Walker says :

    It’s not a conspiracy theory that almost every country in the world is in debt to banks. Countries own resources and can print money, yet, both land and money have been given to private corporations to sell to all people, at enormous gain to the few, also know as the elite. Of course, you have thoughtful opinion on this, but maybe more nonsense rhetoric.
    I knew at the age of 20 after being in the work force for 5 years, that our economic system is corrupt, and a form of slavery, long before I ever heard of Nikola Tesla or conspiracy theories.
    It doesn’t sound like you have ever had a thought that wasn’t given to you by your government, so you try to debunk anyone not following the company line, “whistle-blowers” like John Gatto, John Perkins, Foster Gamble. The list goes on and on. I’m sure you or one of your fellow goons has a debunking site on Peter Joseph and the Zeitgeist movies.
    You think Humans are too stupid to come up with energy sources other than oil. You are the one that ignored Tesla’s contributions to society, and your rhetoric isn’t fooling anyone with a brain. As I said, there is a reason none of us heard of Tesla in school but everyone heard of Edison, and of course, you ignore this important piece of information.
    baaaaaaa, baaaaaaa

    • nqza says :

      “It’s not a conspiracy theory that almost every country in the world is in debt to banks. Countries own resources and can print money, yet, both land and money have been given to private corporations to sell to all people, at enormous gain to the few, also know as the elite.”

      Let’s say you’re right. What’s your solution to this problem?

      Spreading more “awareness” about it?
      That doesn’t do anything. It’s like breast cancer awareness — how many people DON’T know breast cancer is a problem? So we give money and buy stupid pink t-shirts, etc…we’re still no closer to preventing breast cancer than we were 20 years ago.

      I’m sick of people who simply talk about problems without providing a real solution that has actual evidence to support it being viable (ie. foster gamble and his torroidal bullshit \ free energy machines). Talk is nothing more than talk — let’s see some real evidence and *results* instead of talk.

      • Treok Walker says :

        Nqza…You are an idiot, and until more idiots like you are ACTUALLY aware of the corruption of our system, and admit it, rather than saying “”Let’s say you’re right. What’s your solution to this problem?”” there is no solution, because all the idiots such as yourself are keeping it going. With billions of idiots like you, the only hope for the rest of us is that eventually you will wake up, so we keep talking.
        Too bad your brain wasn’t capable of watching Thrive and understanding it. Solutions have been around for years before Thrive came out. Stop having banks make money off of money, while the rest of us actually work for the money. The debt on the money will never go down, it is designed to go up for ever, and guarantee bankers free money for ever. Of course, the bankers will tell you, and you will believe them, that it has to be this way, and since you, and people like you haven’t been able to think for yourselves, you believe whatever those in power tell you to believe, and the rest of us are left with the job of “spreading awareness” of the bankers lies and corruption.
        We are getting sick of idiots such as yourself that can’t see the problems right in front of them, and when people come up with solutions, you call them communists, or conspiracy theorists, or environmentalists, or radicals, or whatever other names the government tells you to call us.
        You are either working for the government, or are a complete Moron.
        You can go back to sleep now

      • jmy says :

        Lots of angry folks in denial out there without hope.

        EROEI , Entropy , Photosynthesis ,

        Nope .. I want a conspiracy to blame

      • muertos says :

        I’ve never understood why believers in conspiracy theories insist that no one could ever be motivated to disagree with them unless they’re being paid by the government or someone else.

        Since I started this blog, I’ve been accused of being paid by the Rockefellers, oil companies, the government, and the Illuminati. I’ve also been accused of causing wars, depression and suicide. Just this morning I received a threatening message insisting that I’m Jewish (I’m not) and that I personally participated in 9/11. It amazes me how little stomach believers in the sort of fringe topics promoted by Thrive truly have for even the slightest challenge of their belief system.

        I’m quite capable of recognizing idiocy, falsehoods and faulty reasoning without being paid by someone to do so. I challenge you, Treok, to produce a single shred of evidence that I’m being paid to write this blog.

      • nqza says :

        Let’s not resort to name calling. I think we can have a mature discussion without calling each other idiots, don’t you?

        ” because all the idiots such as yourself are keeping it going. With billions of idiots like you, the only hope for the rest of us is that eventually you will wake up, so we keep talking.”

        I disagree with this statement entirely. A lot of people know of the problems we have with our economy and there is a lot of interest in either auditing or getting rid of the federal reserve lately.

        “Solutions have been around for years before Thrive came out. Stop having banks make money off of money, while the rest of us actually work for the money.”

        Please enlighten us on how we should go about implementing this solution.
        I’m 100% serious — what’s your plan for putting this solution into action?

        I want specifics. Anything else (ie. spreading more awareness and just re-stating the problem over and over and over and over again) is just plain half-assed.

        I am reminded of a statement put on Maddox’s website right around the time when the SOPA\PIPA “protests” were going on — and the message was along the same lines of what I would say to the “Occupy” people and their protests. Changing your facebook icon or blacking out your website for a day is not going to change anything. Standing out in the cold weather outside a bank with a sign is not a solution. This accomplishes NOTHING.

        So please, give me a detailed and specific plan you have to go about changing things and solving the problems you talk about rather than stating what the problems are 50,000 times over. I’m sick of all talk and no action. Foster Gamble has money — his solution to solve the world’s economic problems is to make a movie and talk about UFOs? WTF? That’s just plain stupid. Meanwhile the people who LIKE the way things are now are using their money and influence to lobby politicians to keep it that way.

        At least they are organized, have a plan, and know what they want to get done and actually do it instead of just talking about it and going in ten million different directions.

      • Treok Walker says :

        “Let’s say you are right”, says nqza, “I’m sick of people who simply talk about problems without providing a real solution….”
        Well nqza, do you have a brain in your head? How about you come up with a solution instead of just attacking others ideas.
        Can you think for yourself? Lets hear it then instead of you just talking about others just talking. LETS SAY I’M RIGHT, THAT OUR SYSTEM IS ONE OF ECONOMIC SLAVERY,…..what idea can your brain come up with to change things.

      • nqza says :

        I’m not responding to your comments anymore Treok, because you’re (1) being immature and (2) you’re not answering my questions; and thus far I don’t see any evidence that you have any real solutions for the world problems talked about in Thrive.

      • Treok Walker says :

        YAY!!!, nqza is finally going to keep his small mind to him self. He has no original ideas or solutions, just happy to go along with the environmental destruction of the planet, and economic slavery system that his government tells him is the only way. YAY!

      • treok says :

        Nqza, The solution or solutions to economic slavery, I see as a group effort, but only possible when people admit the path we are on needs to be changed.
        I will give you my ideas, to which, if you are serious about change, you would add to them, but I won’t be surprised if all you do is attempt to ridicule them, and say they wont work.
        When JFK announced plans to send a manned mission to the moon, many said, “We can’t do that”, and at that moment, it was true, but humans made a group effort(unless you don’t believe we went to the moon) and we went to the moon. The program wasn’t done by just one person, and so my idea is not for me to do it all alone, but to create with others. But, for those who will say, “We can’t do that”, I say they are small minded, with no imagination, and probably don’t believe we went to the moon. I think we went to the moon, and I know we can design a fair economic system so that all humans can thrive, but I also know that those that like to have power over others, have no interest in a fair system, and will call it many names from Utopian, to Communism. I call it Humanism.
        This is just a start, and of course some things would need to be adjusted,just like when the Wright brothers started to fly, they didn’t make the best plane the first time, but got started and then improved the design, so here is my contribution to a better world, so that we can all Fly.
        ALL COUNTRIES THAT ARE MEMBERS OF THE UNITED NATIONS will take part in implementing Guaranteed income for all citizens, let’s say 3 thousand dollars a month. Rather than forcing humans to pay for a place to sleep, land, water and access to food will be a Human RIGHT. Governments will print money, and there will be NO private banks making money off money. We the people, through our Governments don’t need to buy money ,as we can print it. All debts will be erased, each country will print new money, interest free and we will start fresh.
        People will be valued as a Human, with gifts to share, rather than as a slave to pay into the debt to keep the bankers rich.
        We will no longer be trying to create jobs and money, we will be creating a sustainable system, creating things we need, and making things to last as long as possible, rather than to fall apart as we do now. We will have less waste.
        We don’t need gold to back money, we have humans. Maybe each country can print 25 million dollars per citizen to get us started.
        All government jobs will pay the same wage, let’s say 50 to 100 dollars per hour, regardless of position, from a technician that is fixing power lines in a storm, to the CEO of the utility company. No more million dollar salaries for the in-group. All resources belong to the people, not to private corporations, so, all resources will be owned by the people, not an elite few.
        People will no longer need to get jobs just to pay the rent, and so rather than doing jobs they dislike, and/or that are destroying our environment, people can contribute in ways that they enjoy. People will be more creative, and will have more leisure time(a sign of an intelligent species I think, rather than mindlessly working). We can get rid of all welfare programs, employment insurance, and thereby eliminate more useless government jobs. We can get rid of minimum wage, as people will work with someone they like, whom they wish to help in their project, for whatever pay they like, or no pay.
        I think we will eliminate most theft, especially small theft, where people steal to buy food, or other basics.
        We can get rid of a lot of jails. The only rule I advocate is to not harm any one, and only lock up people that are dangerous to others, but I think that is a very small percentage of people, especially when people are being valued as a human, rather than a commodity, I think we will see a lot more harmony in society.
        All military will return to their home country. All UN countries will stop making, selling, buying and using weapons.( unless of course in self defense against a non-UN country).
        We can stop doing trade with any countries that do not join the UN, if they violate human rights, and allow any people that wish to move from non-UN countries, into UN countries.
        That’s a brief start, and should be good for a laugh for you who don’t believe in the beauty that humans can be.

      • nqza says :

        Oh so now I’m worthy of a response…instead of just calling me an idiot \ small minded \ fool who’s alseep.
        Did you take your meds today treok?

      • treok says :

        Yes, we all knew nqza, that you would have nothing to contribute to creating a better world, and no, you are not really worth a response, but for anyone reading this shit site, that only offers ridiculous rants and complaining about Foster Gamble, while standing up for corrupt politicians, and having nothing worthwhile to contribute to society, I thought I’d just put some ideas out there, to counter the bullshit you guys are serving up, as You obviously have nothing Valuable to contribute to society.

  17. thuhbadguy says :

    You didn’t debunk Ancient Astronaut Theorists any more than they can prove their theories are right. No one knows for sure.

    • anticultist says :

      LOL of course we know for sure, there is no evidence !

      • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

        Ah, but a-c, you know as well as I do that:

        —- the absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence —–

        Nanny-Nanny-Boo Boo!

      • anticultist says :

        And you know as well as I do Tom that without evidence, and the knowledge of current science you can ascertain the likelihood of something being real. The fact that current knowledge shows us that ancient astronauts do not exist, utilising history, archaeology, geology, and all other forms of scientific record it means that the only way one could prove ancient aliens existed would be to provide rock solid evidence contrary to current scientific knowledge and understanding.

        The evidence is stacked against ancient astronaut believers so I can state without hesitation the theory is fantasy, prove me wrong using science or you are merely speculating and we both know that is not scientific evidence.

  18. Andrew Nelson says :

    Hey I would just like to point something out.

    When discussing Nassim Haramein’s S. Proton Theory, the person who wrote this blog stated ” I am not trained in physics, but what I do know of it, this assertion is completely outside the realm of science as we understand it.”

    I would be interested in the opinion of someone who is trained in physics on this.

    If you are untrained in physics how can you possibly debunk any physics?

    My intent is not to insult, only to present the idea, that nobody on this planet actually understands how the universe works. It is in our best interest to look at all theories that are elegant and clean for the long term until proven otherwise with empirical scientific data.

  19. Kint Verbal says :


    First you make a good, logical point: absence of proof is not proof of absence. Just because we can’t prove how certain things happened, it doesn’t mean they must have been done by… aliens.

    Then, however, you fall in the same fallacy you described “And in the absence of such convincing evidence, is it really that unreasonable to conclude that it did not happen”. The answer is again yes, it is unreasonable as well as illogical.

    Let me quote you again: “We may someday have the answers to our questions, but they are most likely to come from scientific investigation not pseudoscientific speculation.”

    Until that scientific investigation is over, hold your horses and be logical, otherwise you’re in the same category as the one you debunk, just on the other side.

  20. Jack Strange says :

    Its especially amusing that STONE HENGE factors into their ideas of impossible structures. The stones, though massive, are probably only as complicated as bringing them there and sticking them into the ground.

    I’m a creationist myself, but rather than believing in young earth, I actually believe in earth ages and I believe the flesh man to have existed only in the last few thousands of years. I don’t think there’s any good evidence for millions of years of man on earth, in the flesh.

  21. Von Danikook says :

    *sticks fingers in ears*…la la la la la…Anunnaki…la la la…Nibiru…la la la…used genetically modified humans as slave labor to mine gold for their planet’s atmosphere…la la la la la.”

  22. Mason Bilderberg says :

    Reblogged this on Illuminutti.

  23. Joel says :

    It might also be worthwhile to note that Clifford Wilson’s “Crash Go the Chariots” is another fun debunking of von Daniken’s “work.”

    Though I will admit, I have a particular fondness for von Daniken’s work. In my undergraduate work I took an “Ancient Mysteries” class where the professor taught us to identify logical fallacies by examining “Chariots of the Gods?” (and other similar bits of nonsense). It was fun but tedious work, considering that often von Daniken could fit easily make seven fallacies in a three sentence paragraph.

  24. daff says :


    • muertos says :

      I agree completely–Thrive and its claims about “ancient astronauts” are complete garbage, as I have amply demonstrated. Thanks for lending your support!

      • Karolyn says :

        Amply demonstrated? I think not. Just the same old answers over again.

      • Bluemonkey says :

        I have read through this page and what you are saying makes about 300 times less sense than thrive, or anyone’s “ancient astronaut” theory, I’m not saying I believe in any of these ideas or not, I have my own baised on my experience which is funnily enough close (sometimes;)) to everyone else who lets themselves have their own experience. Muertos you have not done anything but state empty ideals that have no evidence of there own…and for someone who says that they stick to evidence thats quite funny. this is just the school playground again, getting trained to keep each other in the dark and to police each other 🙂 you can have your debunk thrive website and stay at the level of barbaric intelligence to that of the people who hunted “witches” in the “dark ages.”.but I forgive you, and all the ignorant people of this planet 🙂

        thanks for the chuckle guys 🙂

      • Wyboth says :

        Really, I don’t get it… Foster hands his shit to you people on a silver platter and you devour it and call it the best thing since sliced bread, but we give you gold and you vomit it back at us. It beats me.

        How in the world is this article 300 times as bad as Thrive? I mean, really, you think futuristic tools from green men in flying machines building the pyramids makes more sense than the Egyptians doing it by hand? Are you insane? There are SO many things wrong with these kinds of theories that I’m surprised anyone actually holds them to be true. Maybe you people really are insane. Why is it so hard to believe that the Egyptians built it by hand? Why?

        I look forward to your response.

  25. Alastair says :

    Here’s a perfect quote explaining why your debunking fails:

    “I believe that a couple of ordinary yahoos from rural England, with no advanced training in engineering or mathematics, working with boards, measuring tapes and other simple tools, can and regularly do create magnificent, geometrically perfect crop circles on a regular basis. In fact, I can prove that they do. But Foster Gamble and Nassim Haramein do not believe this. They believe people are too stupid to figure out how to flatten some wheat stalks and throw some magnetized particles around to fool the gullible.”

    This statement does not acknowledge any of the finer details, such as the fact that it’s very obvious which are man made and which are not. The man-made ones have broken stalks, obviously flattened down by a board. And there are footprints. The others leave behind magnetic particles, there are no footprints and the stalks are not broken, but magnetically bent and woven together to grow in this same pattern. Furthermore, the example shown in the movie was created in a matter of hours during a rainstorm and even under these muddy conditions, still no footprints. Big difference wouldn’t you have to admit?

  26. John says :

    Your an idiot. This is THE worst debunking I have ever read.

  27. Karolyn says :

    If it can’t be proven that they don’t exist, I will still believe. There is just too much that cannot be explained. I prefer to enjoy the mystery of the unknown and the power of the human mind. I wish I was scientifically minded enough to study quantum physics to find out that they are not aliens from space at all but are from a parallel dimension. So glad I’m not a skeptic! So comforting and exciting to think of all the wonders that exist.

    • muertos says :

      At least you recognize that believing in this stuff is purely a matter of faith and personal choice, rather than trying to argue that it’s based on evidence, which is the tack most woo believers try to take. It’s actually refreshing to find a believer who admits there is not a shred of evidence to support these bizarre theories and therefore correctly classifies these beliefs as being purely faith-based, which is exactly what they are.

      • mike lee says :

        Whilst i don’t think I could be described as a “conspiracy nut”, I do think some of your “debunking” leaves a lot to be desired. Your quote refuting von Daniken is basically “no it’s not” without any evidence whatsoever. I’m sure the site you quote has ample evidence, I’m just saying the section quoted is worse than useless.

        I don’t subscribe to the little-green-men-did-it theory, but I find it difficult to believe that you honestly think that lack of a thank you note to alien collusion in the building of the pyramids is anything but a straw man. No records exist as to how they really were built, but you assert that lack of “thnx Zaphod” is proof of your position.

        I could go on but I have to make a hat from tin-foil and find medicines from twigs & plants like willow, neem, foxglove etc.

  28. Adamu says :

    Wow, what a waste of my life’s time that above article has taken! 

    The only thing it has “Debunked” is it’s writer- what a small minded idiot who is desperation for simple answers due to his own insecurities. 

    I mean what’s more plausible if for a moment you ignore the scepticism that surrounds the word “ALIENS” 

    We have an almighty magic god that controls everything and is everywhere at all times ….. 

    Or for the fact that there are more suns in the galaxy than there are grains of sand on Earth and for every sun there is a handful of planets – so for on just one of them planets there is a more advanced species than ours that visited earth all them years ago to witch our bible and other religious texts are based and written, about things they witnessed and storeys they were told any they described in the with the only words they knew, bare in mind things like the word “rocket” was unheard of… 

    You take a modern man back thousands of years …… To local civilisation he would be a god …… With his glowing Stone (his iPhone) his gold and silver bracelet (his watch) and the ability to command Fire upon his will (a lighter) 

    Yes the magic god route is more believable …….. Pft

    • Lee says :

      You are under the mistaken impression that Muertos is religious or a Christian.

    • muertos says :

      Where in this article do I assert anything about God or Christ?

    • Anastasio says :


      “Or for the fact that there are more suns in the galaxy than there are grains of sand on Earth and for every sun there is a handful of planets – ”

      Fact? But surely the estimates for the amount of stars in the Milky Way range from 100 to 400 billion:

      And according to this estimate (which only accounts for beaches and not deserts) the amount of individual grains of sand on earth comes to around 7 and a half quintillion:

      The comparison I presume you meant to draw up was between the amount of grains of sand on earth and the amount of stars in the universe; which could be anyone’s guess given that we have observed but a tiny fraction of it.

      It could well be a likely notion there are more stars in the universe than grains of sand on earth but that is no more a “fact” (which if it were you would have misunderstood/expressed it incorrectly anyway) than a rhetorical tool used to persuade others of the existence of extraterrestrial life, usually in the context of debates such as this.
      And given that no one on this blog has dismissed the possibilty of extraterrestrial life existing at all, your ‘fact’ sticks out at somewhat irrelevant and unconvincing anyway.

      “so for on just one of them planets there is a more advanced species than ours that visited earth all them years ago to witch our bible and other religious texts are based and written”

      Which planet, bible and religious texts in particular are you referring to in particular? The ancient Greeks wrote of a woman with living serpents in place of her hair and of a half-man, half-bull abomination that lived in a labyrinth. I’m sure these accounts were pretty convincing at their time of writing but I personally wouldn’t vouch for their accuracy nor would I feel comfortable using their content as evidence of Gods or aliens, although some people certainly don’t seem to have a problem with doing just that

  29. rock says :

    this is what everyone wants to know, but does not realize it…ancient aliens or not?…then ,can either fit with creation or evolution?…then, does either confirm or disprove intelligent design or randomness ( a fluke),…and eventually, i not have to wake up on Sunday mornings to go to church anymore (phew)…or , does it mean that my prayers are not wasted ….

  30. Want to be More than Ordinary says :

    You honestly can’t see past your boxed in and closed minded beliefs and ideal paradigms to realize that somethings just were impossible for the people of that time to reasonably construct by themselves. I’m not saying that every idea proposed is fact, but you cannot disregard the undeniable evidence that something beyond us intervened at times in our distant past. It would not invalidate religions but rather reinforce our beliefs in them. The ancient texts are all factual accounts, it is just that regions own experience that inspired their religious beliefs. You cannot go based on the summing of the evidence but review it all carefully. I’ve personally watched Ancient Alien series four or more times, it really grasps at common sense you just need an open mind. Every account in the world throughout time should not just be disregarded as a lie, fable, or myth. Individuals know the consequences of admitting these beliefs, and saw beyond that to it’s importance to be known by all. No one wants to be regarded as crazy or having ideas that make them seem insane, but one can only deny the obvious truths around us for so long. I hope that you can see that it is not an evil to believe this, and that people do need a spiritual awakening more than ever. It just may not be the one expected, I myself struggled with religion since junior high. Was a self proclaimed atheist since high school, now I am anything but. I had many reasons religions just didn’t make sense to me then, and all of this just answered my uncertainties. – you must watch the entire series (but one of my favorites was S:1 E:3), in order to see the truths in it because it’s easy to disregard something as false when you don’t know enough about it. Your making a decision with inconclusive evidence, so be patient and don’t watch with huge time gaps in between. Try to watch soon after one another, and not everything theorised is true some are obviously wrong but this was a series with peoples own evidence and interpretations so be aware but don’t get impatient. Mostly all of it is more than reasonably believable, a lot of it will make your mind spin. In my opinion it’s best to watch with someone who is also interested to talk it over with, makes it more fun to learn.

    • Lee says :

      I think you underestimate the ability of our ancient ancestors.

    • Gary Smith says :

      I have watched the series regularly. It gives me a good chuckle. Come on, really. Its just a bunch of people who probably regard or think themselves as atheists desperate to believe in something greater than themselves instead of seeing the beauty and wonder of just being human and happy with that. Which of course doesn’t make them atheists but creators of a new belief system. The universe is an incredible place and what it took to get us here as we are, could be regarded as miraculous but so is the universe itself. Miracle? No. Undeniably beautiful, dangerous, spectacular and wonderous. But “created’ , give me a break. That brings the conversation around to free will. What is it? is it real? I believe so based on what credible scientific facts we have to this point in time. but that’s just it. Whats believed one year. decade, century may be proven wrong in the next, but that’s the beauty of who we are, Self aware Humanity. Curious by nature. That’s all anybody needs if they would only just look, not just at the universe but at themselves and the wonder of being here right now typing this. Being human, living and dying for our species, ourselves, not for or by anything else.

  31. Professor Pious says :

    Here is a debunking web site for the History Channel’s series “Ancient Aliens.” Many of the misinterpreted art and artifacts in the series overlap with content in Thrive.

    • Edward says :

      To all of you nonbelievers. I say forget religious texts, science, astronomy, architecture, and all the other bs. Aliens and their UFOs do exist. I saw one over 20 years ago and that thing was centuries above anything we even have today. The beings flying these things that are seen all over the world have been around for millions of years to be that advanced, while homo sapiens have been around for maybe 500,000 years and that is pushing it. So could these highly advance beings visited earth lets 50.000 years ago? You bet your asses they could have.

      • a rational person says :

        i saw a ufo over columbus, ohio in 1978…know what it turned out to be? two aluminum pie plates and a flashlight…u don’t have a single butt nugget of proof that what u saw was a spaceship flown by aliens…u talk to these “beings”? how do you know they’re advanced? that guy in gulf breeze florida back in the 80s…yeah, remember him?…he kept a ufo hoax going for years with a polaroid camera and a couple of pieces of balsa wood…i mean, wtf is that? u have no idea how gullible people are especially if they want to believe bullshit like this…listen hoss, there ain’t no aliens…but there is a whole industry of book publishers and makers of bullshit movies and “documentaries” who want u to believe in aliens so they can sell you more of their ridiculous crap about how “omg its being suppressed”…face it hoss, you been duped. i know it ain’t pretty to admit it but its the truth so u better start learning how to accept it. nuff said

      • alysdexia says :

        Betty and Barney Hill abduction: left starmap of Zeta Reticuli, whose planèt is in Goldilocks zone by Bode’s law; magnètic melt spots on their car hood; a stain on her dress

      • conspiracykiller says :

        “Betty and Barney Hill abduction: left starmap of Zeta Reticuli, whose planèt is in Goldilocks zone by Bode’s law; magnètic melt spots on their car hood; a stain on her dress”

        Yeah and that turned the world upside down right.

        You believe in the electric universe theory and aliens visiting earth and abducting people, it’s probably wise people give you a wide berth.

      • Joel T. says :

        The “starmap” was sufficiently vague so as to make proper identification impossible. Even assuming Betty’s experiences were real, her drawing was inexact enough that its impossible to determine what might be a “valid” identification of the map and what’s simply apophenia.

        I can’t find any evidence that the hood of their car was melted. Indeed, I can’t find any statement from the Hills indicating that it was. Perhaps you’re thinking of the magnetic dents they reported? Alas, it doesn’t appear that those were ever examined by anyone other than them.
        The “stain” on Betty’s dress was supposedly a powder that blew away, leaving no trace behind. Again, we only have their claims that it was ever there at all.

        Against the Hills was the fact that Betty was an UFO enthusiast long before the “event,” that by their own testimony she immediately jumped to a UFO conclusion as soon as she saw something she didn’t recognize, and that Barney changed his story over the years.

        There’s more evidence that spaghetti grows on trees than that the Hills were reporting a factual account.

  32. Mariana says :

    Ha ha. This article was interesting. If youre going to “debunk” something, you need to be flawless…this article was anything but…

    To quote the great Tesla

    The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.
    Nikola Tesla, Modern Mechanics and Inventions. July, 1934

  33. adamhuntuyoxkal says :

    I am Kinich Ahau

    • adamhuntuyoxkal says :

      I believe he is inside me

    • Mr. Anon says :

      OK? I think you might want to consider seeing someone.

      • Wyboth says :

        Like maybe a psychologist, or, something more up his alley, say, an exorcist?

      • adamhuntuyoxkal says :


      • adamhuntuyoxkal says :

        i am a psychologist. and i am an exorcist

      • adamhuntuyoxkal says :

        i talked to some Mayan experts about this. they answered that I very well may be a manifestation of Ahau — they also said that many people are manifestations of kinich ahau. so maybe you should go tell them that they need to see someone (a psychologist, or an exorcist). but I highly doubt that they will agree — as they probably know more about Ahau then either of you do. Blessings. Remember, if you are upset by this then it means that there is something wrong with your spirit.

      • adamhuntuyoxkal says :

        look them up: The Pakalian Group of Mexico. Or find their thread ‘King Pakal’s Death Ceremony – Preparing for the Inevitable’

      • adamhuntuyoxkal says :

        i’ve decided not to follow this ahau path in life. it just does not give me a good feeling. YOU don’t give me a good feeling. so i am going to follow a Christian path instead. strangely enough, i prayed the night before you commented, what i prayed for was that someone might push me in the right direction in my life. Though your comments were harsh, thank you.

  34. adamhuntuyoxkal says :

    But let’s get back to the thread and stay on topic. Human beings – from what I have studied – had much larger pineal glands a very long long time ago. The energies of the universe eventually caused pineal glands to shrink, which caused humans to lose intelligence and technological abilities. When humans had larger pineal glands, they were much much smarter and had abilities far beyond our own. With this kind of intelligence, they were able to make incredible advancements in the technology world – far beyond our own. With such amazing technology, of course humans were able to cut stones with lasers and other technology far beyond our own. The only thing that I can think of to help you realize this is: ancient hieroglyphs have carvings of helicopters, airplanes, and space ships – this proves that humans had great technology thousands of years ago. I’ve also seen ancient carvings of people wearing helmets with antennas on them, the antennas beaming messages up to hovering space ships above. Another point that I’d like to make is this: there are pyramids in mexico as well as egypt, a row of 3 pyramids perfectly aligned with Orion’s Belt. A row like this of 3 aligned with the belt in Egypt, and a row of 3 aligned with the belt in mexico. I learned – on the history channel – that these pyramids and the structures around them resembled giant microprocessors – like giant replicas of the small micro processors used in modern computers today. That being said, it is obvious humans had great technology to make pyramids, but later lost it.

    • adamhuntuyoxkal says :

      i’m just giving the message, this is all information that i have learned from the history channel and other reliable sources. But…again..I am at a similar crossroad, where I feel that studying ancient history is not my path EITHER! I think I am just going to go to church alot. Christian Church is something that I have done my whole life and i am not going to stop now. As for psychology, i have aspergers syndrome. this means that i take evrything literally. so, IF i learn something that i find logical, i believe it to be true until someone teaches me otherwise. I’m done with this debunking alien history stuff, this mayan stuff, and this conspiracy stuff. Thank u all for everything

    • a rational person says :

      wow…u are a nutbag.

      • Wyboth says :

        I think he just did an about-face in his recent comment. I only intended the comment as satirical sarcasm, but I’m glad it helped.

      • edward says :

        Hey dumb shit I have no type of hoax on what I said early and have nothing to gain. No fake picture or other bs. Just a memory and trust me you fucking dumbass it was real.

      • anticultist says :

        Edward just because you saw something it doesn’t make it what you believe it to be.

  35. Brent says :

    Thank you for making this blog! You write very well, and after watching Thrive I was quite relieved to find someone who had ripped it apart so thoroughly.
    You may have already heard of it, but this is a really good site for debunking Ancient Astronaut type theories and other foolish theories about archaeology.

    The 2 guys who run it are really well educated and will respond to any questions people may have. I have asked them for information a few times and they always came through.

    • badal says :

      What bullshit , lf we are open to believe in god then why not aliens.

      • anticultist says :

        No one said aliens don’t exist, they said aliens have not visited Earth and built cities or put pretty drawings in farmers fields.

        Aliens may well exist somewhere in the universe, you can’t then make leaps to claim they are here on Earth though.

        Plus there is more evidence for the xistance of aliens than a god, you obviously are not aware of the Cartesian theatre principle.

      • Wyboth says :

        Damn it anticultist, you sniped me again.

  36. jigga babii says :

    would like to make this clear to u. U r an idiot. I simply googled ancient astronaut videos becuz ihave become a deep believer because of the FACTS that u say arent logic. I have never even hear of Thrive or u or this rediculous article. Now im goin to watch Thrive after having read this garbage and see wat ive been missing. Now, to u and ur idiot-ness. For the completely moronic question that u say no ancient astronaut believer would answer “Der, Y dnt the aliens cum hlp us NOW and stuff since theyre so REal??? huh huh???” Ok, the entire a.a theory is based on ARCHEOLOGICAL ARTIFACTS FOUND BY ACHEOLOGISTS, -NOT- the egyptians and their pyramids. that theory came long after the a.a theory was proposed, and that theory as well is based on ARCHEOLOGICAL GEOLOGICAL AND SCIENTIFIC FACTS DISCOVERED. basically saying that the complexity of the pyramids design is far to flawless without some to of computing or extremely advanced knowledge and engineering and architectural skill. the great pyramids measurements equal pi. did u kno that? egyptians never used or had need for advanced mathmatics. the great pyramid measurements also go on to equal the golden number wen using advanced mathematics. google the golden number and tell me wat u think about ur own thoughts. back to the stupid question. the whole point is that they gave us an otherwise undiscoverable knowledge. if u look at the sumerians, who USE to be the oldest civilization discovered, they were simple people. every single civilization before the very first discovered ancient astronaut theory historical artifact was a simple hunter gatherer existence UNTIL the ancient aliens came and gave them technologies languages writing so on and so forth. even in the bible if u think about it, did God not say he gav man the animals an fruits and plants and knowledge of how to til the land and woman for his company. THERE IS NO RELIGION, NO CULTURE, NO CIVILIZATIONS HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS AND ARTIFACTS, that date bck to before man had metallurgy and aqueducts roadways and other certain technological advancements, that doesnt give hundreds sometimes thousands of extreme suggestions and in my opinion clear proof that we are not where we are today without a serious boot through technological existence. did u know that there are artifacts that been recently discorvered that are around 2.8 billion years old. they are smooth surface rock spheres that hav a groove perfectly carved around it and a round hole just above it. nothing in nature can create this. google it by the way. the oldest now known intelligent existenc of man only dates back 4 MILLION years. in fact from modern sciences stand point the earth is only 4 billion years old. that these artifacts were created wen the planet was jus a baby on a cosmic scale. still whining and weining in space burping plooms of magma and chemical elements. according to todays science there was NO life on earth 2.8 biilion year ago and the said artifact are not logical or possible to exist. yet they are here today, in a museum. still 2.8 biilion years old, still not acknowledged. ofcourse the a.a theorists would acknowledge it, which would giv it even less significance to modern scientists becuz they would take it as an insult coming from that everything that theyve spent their lives working on and , everything that their kids know and/or are taught, everything that we know as mankind is only a single digit in the complex equation of the story of man. but as with all math, it breaks down to the basics, the beginning, addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. In the beginning subtracts the gods and angels and demons and devils and magic carpets and mt olympus where zues and the greek gods lived, and add the E.T leader of an expedition across space and time with his under ranking officers and workers etc and add the possibility of mutany from wanting to control the simple people of this planet to the equation to giv us the fallen angels or the exiled individuals and followers of said mutanies. the very same individuals who would go on to become tyranus demons or monsters or watever described by the “simple us” because they had their technology and easily frightened us into control. which bred different religions by which we followed simply because we believed them to be devine. now multiply these things by a planetary scale, say about a billion for the number of people on the planet ate the time, and divide it by the number of different gods from all religions and u have a base equation to start with. imay have screwed up my multiplication and division metaphores up a bit but u get the point im sure. and im not an archeologist or any type of researcher, this perceptive interpretation is all frm imagination but it make perfect sense. and our recorded history DOES NOT unless u will CHOOSE to believe what is a “simple us” way of thinking, that God did everything 4000 years ago heavens and the earth yada yada. well u should google the term Infinite Being and dwell on that a bit. God is far far more complex than a guy on a throne in the clouds sumwhere judging us by right or wrong actions. heaven and hell is all 2real but far more complex than the “simple us” written interpretations from the bible could explain. and to finally answer that stupid question that u probably thought i forgot about or just couldn answer, they wont hlp us now because they already gave us the technology to do it ourselves DUMBA**, all our techs today stem from simple techs ages before, y would they come this far again to help us build a f****** dam with their complex techs which probably couldve done it in seconds when we hav the knowledge to do it ourselves. nothing about ur article makes sense simply becuase U have NO FACTS or PROOF that disproves or even makes an arguement against them. U DONT EVEN HAVE ANY REAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WTF -THEY- ARE TALKING ABOUT, how can u write an entire article about a whole movie about something u know NOTHING about. do u know how much time and thought it takes to come with something as comlex as a movie about s***… remember ihavent even seen the movie and just based on what UR articles states by QUOTING the movie or giving examples from etc, U R AN IDIOT. whoever made the movie had to have knowledge of so many different mathematical concepts and theories and different religions anand cultures, knowledge of different ancient documents and artifacts and readings and books,so much knowledge that would be considered esoteric by someone like u. just base on ur article ican perceive just how much more intelligent the person or people who mad the movie was than u. i can also perceive by the article that u may have some type of degree or consider your of college entry level intelligence, well just to lessen the high opinion of your small mind if a tablet was discovered tomorrow that showed exactly how the pyramids were built, it would only further prove the A.A theory because it would show exactlexactlyy y it was a powerplant. chemicals that are found NOWHERE in nature within nearly a thousand miles of the ppyramids are found in the great pyramid. chemicals which wen mixed create nitrogen which we know today as a powerful clean burning energy source. egyptians had no use or knowledge for nitrogen. but yet their texts explain that pyramid was built for the gods to help them. they further explain that they were with the tools and help of them. y is it that wen we establish something as man to be a fact today and discover something that completely defies wha we thought was a fact, it gets swept under the rug. because no one would be able to accept the fact that we are not who we think we are. and no one wants to be told that u dont knkw who u are at 40 50 60 years old. same reason the tesla coil was never used wen it clearly worked and ha been proven today, because there would trillions of dollars lost from electric companies an so on. the main reason being to protect people from their own ignorance. and by the way u r still an idiot for this article. it ur point of view makes sens only because of the box ur mind lives in. u may have tried to save yourslf a few times bby going aalong with us but the simple fact the u came up with all this nonsense base on NO PROOF OR LOGICAL RESONING OR FACTS OR RESEARCH OR -ANYTHING- AT ALL basically says that u r an idiot in a box. intelligence is the currency of the universe, smoke weed and read.

    • Wyboth says :

      “the great pyramids measurements equal pi.”

      What measurement? Be specific, and cite it. I also highly doubt that, since pi has to do with circles, not rectangular prisms.

      “Ok, the entire a.a theory is based on ARCHEOLOGICAL ARTIFACTS FOUND BY ACHEOLOGISTS, -NOT- the egyptians and their pyramids. that theory came long after the a.a theory was proposed, and that theory as well is based on ARCHEOLOGICAL GEOLOGICAL AND SCIENTIFIC FACTS DISCOVERED.”

      Ancient astronauts theory is based on biased interpretations of ambiguous artifacts. There is no actual evidence that aliens ever visited Earth thousands of years ago, just some drawings that look like aliens, but could be many other things. Besides, the aliens would have no knowledge of our existence back then since we didn’t have radio broadcasts, and even if they did know, the immense distance between stars would have greatly hindered their journey. There is no evidence for AA theory, and lots of evidence against it. Until it can come up with some real evidence and can debunk the evidence against it, nobody should believe it.

      I’m not even going to waste my time with the rest of your comment.

    • anticultist says :

      haha a wall of text, a lot of random capital letters used, and a whole lot of crazy belief.

      jigga babii you are crazy !

  37. passing by says :

    why didnt they erect a stone tablet and write blah blah blah.. what would it be wrote in english? whos to say that certain hiroglyphs mean that? you cant really debunk an opinion with another opinion 🙂

    • a rational person says :

      egyption hieroglyphics were decoded in 1822 by champollion using the rosetta stone. so we do know what they mean.

      “whos to say that certain hieroclyphs mean that?” uh, how about the people whose job it is (egyptologists) to read hieroglyphics?

      so it is not an “opinion.” and u are a fucking idiot nutbag. but thanks for passing by.

      • passing by says :

        haha aggression..hmm keyboard warrior, forgot these people were there at the start of time.. all of a sudden studying something for so long makes you never wrong.. an open mind is something that ‘passes by’ your fucking head, thats like saying vicar/priests are experts at reading there bibles and suddenly the whole things true..tosspot

      • a rational person says :

        lemme be sure i understand you, hoss…we’ve been able to read hireoglyphics since 1822, but you think all the people that have been studying them for almost 200 years somehow missed evidence that aliens built the pyramids?

        do u actually have evidence of this?

        i think i know the answer to that but i wanna see what u say.

      • Joel T. says :

        You’re confused, PB. The short is, yes, studying hieroglyphs for over 200 years does in fact mean that there is no possibility that we are wrong on how we translate them.

        You see, when we can’t translate a language, we know that we can’t translate it. The reason is very simple: if the model we are using to translate a language isn’t correct, the translation it produces will be gibberish. Even very good, but ultimately incorrect, models can’t produce intelligible seeming translations all the time. Only the real thing can do that.

        We can’t translate Linear A (and probably never will) because we have too little text for any model to be tested thoroughly. Egyptian hieroglyphics, on the other hand, are quite plentiful: if our translation model was wrong, there would have been numerous examples of it failing over the last 200 years.

        Let’s consider your claim that the measurements of the pyramids equals pi. That’s a reference to John Taylor’s supposition that pi was intentionally incorporated into the Great Pyramid, based on the observation that if one divides its perimeter (1760 cubits) by its height (280 cubits), one will get a number vaguely close to 2pi. Taylor’s argument wasn’t that the Egyptians were able to calculate pi accurately, but that they knew of it, and incorporated it into their buildings. Given that we only have estimates for the original size of the pyramids (good estimates, but by no means exact), any claim of precision in pi is total gibberish. A problem with Taylor’s suggestion is that the ratio of base to height that the later pyramids use is also particularly stable: deviate too much from it, and one starts to run into structural problems. Given that we know that the Egyptians experimented with proportions and got it wrong on occasion, its more likely that they stumbled across those proportions through trial and error, rather than great knowledge. If aliens had visited earth, one would hope that they would be able to impart information to us that would not be easily gleaned from trial and error. Also, one would have to wonder at what point the aliens stepped in: we have archeological evidence showing the steady progression from simple burial mounds to giant pyramids. Surely, the aliens didn’t have to teach the Egyptians how to pile dirt on top of a dead body.

        Regarding written language, again, archeology gives us records of its development. It started off as literal drawings of the things, and then over time morphed into stylized forms. If aliens gave us written language, then the aliens had all the sophistication of a 4 year old drawing cartoons with crayons.

        But what of spoken language? Alas, here physiology confounds the alien idea. We had to evolve, both mentally and physically, to use language. Thus, if aliens came too early, we couldn’t have physically talked, or if they came too late, we were already talking. But perhaps they drove human evolution, you say? No, that’s not a valid option. Geneticists know the rate at which mutations arise and can be selected for to drive evolution. They can and have created models determining when particular mutations in humans (say, our ability to see blue, or the lactose tolerance of some groups) arose. Those models are based on modern observations and theories, yet conform to the archeological evidence of human evolution as well. The problem there is that there have been no sudden leaps forward in human evolution that are outside this genetic model, as one would expect if aliens were involved.

        That’s the problem with the ancient astronaut “theory.” If there were aliens, they were so lackluster as to be entirely forgettable, like a straight to video movie.

      • a rational person says :

        joel, good explanation, but this nutbag doesn’t wanna hear it. it’s always more fun when experts are wrong, when study doesn’t mean anything, and when all those people who spend years studyng stuff like this end up wasting their time and money and some asshole can come along with a yutube video and totally rewrite the history of the human race, or nassim “con man” haramein can rewrite the laws of physics.

        passing by wants to believe in aliens, damn it! and he will believe aliens built the pyramids no matter what evidence is out there to prove he’s wrong! dont confuse him with the facts! his mind is made up!!!!!!!!!!!!

        this is how nutbags think…its sad but its the truth. this is why ppl like this shouldnt be allowed to breed.

  38. bob dylan says :


    • a rational person says :

      wow. u are a world class nutbag. jeezus christ. lay off the caps lock key a little bit, ok hoss? damn. so much stupidity in one post. bet you never read a book about ancient history in your life. lemme guess, u learned everything you know from yutube videos, right?

  39. Joshua Roman says :

    HEY! get it together. quit slackin! my tax dollars pay for this?

  40. M says :

    Many things are just theories,not facts..the only fact is that everyone has an opinion and thinks that at some point the right to call someone else ignorant..
    bring me a time machine and i will get some real answers,until that happens whatever is a “fact” today tomorrow can be bullshit..

    • conspiracykiller says :

      That’s relativism, and it’s not completely realistic. Some things are beyond reasonable doubt, that’s as close to fact as you can get. To overturn those things requires a mountain of evidence.

      So until a mountain of evidence is supplied to overturn things facts remain facts.

  41. tetragrammaton says :

    “If Ancient Astronauts Helped Ancient Peoples Build Things in the Distant Past, How Come They Haven’t Helped Us Build Anything in Recorded History?”

    because they fucked off after a major cataclysmic event, leaving these traces of their existence.

    its crazier NOT to think that this is the likely hood of what happened.

    The universe is approx 14 billion years old, comprising of 500 Billion galaxies, which hold 500 billion stars each.

    Using the Kepler Telescope they have already discovered countless planets that could sustain life… just in a small part of our galaxy.

    If one of those planets in the universe, not just the galaxy had life just 1 million years more advanced than ours (in a time frame of 14 Billion years), can you image what they’d be doing….. would they be debunking obvious possibilities & outcomes, or extending out their consciousness and traveling around the universe.

    now take humanity back to when the earth was flat….. even before that, before humans knew what the fuck space was…. and referred to it as the Heavens….. and being came down from Heaven to the Earth.

    ….im not saying it was Aliens……… but Aliens.

    and why the fuck would any other intelligent life want to come to this garbage dump of a planet we’ve created. Would you? or would you keep going till you found and decent Civil-isation.

    • Joel T. says :

      And you know that said “major cataclysmic event” happened… how?
      Indeed, and you know that the aliens left, how?

      The rub is, humans are entirely capable of doing everything themselves, thus why postulate ancient astronauts without reason?

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