Tag Archive | analysis

The Lonely Battle Against “Disinformation Agents”: A Conspiracy Theorist Analyzes Me.

I received an interesting email recently from a reader of Thrive Debunked who often forwards me leads and information. The subject was a conversation about me and this blog that recently went on between someone who has frequently commented on this blog (sometimes in support, but often in opposition) and another person who is evidently a filmmaker of some stature. The filmmaker, whose name I do not know, claimed to have done an analysis of me by reading Thrive Debunked. Just for fun I thought I’d present it here, as I find it both very amusing and very sad, and unfortunately typical of the conspiracy mindset behind Thrive. I’ll also offer some comments on the analysis by SlayerX3, the other frequent contributor to this blog.

I should state before we begin that who this person is doesn’t matter to me. I could not be less interested in their identity. It’s the content of the analysis that is interesting here.

The “Disinformation” Trope—Again.

“Muertos is a very interesting character. I’ve gone through a good bit of that site. I just want you to know that, in my considered opinion, this is all what it looks like: purposeful and intentional disinformation. This is NOT the efforts of a few intelligent skeptics who are determined that the public know the “truth”. This is a strategically mounted, carefully conceived and administered campaign to shift public opinion away from having a sincere interest in these topics.

Who would want to do such a thing is not a conversation for email, as far as I am concerned. Too complex, murky, and too detailed to write about. I just wanted you to know that disinformation has been a topic of interest of mine for a long, long time. There are reasons my films generally withstand certain kinds of scrutiny, in that I’ve always had a bit of a natural style and methodology that results in well-knit story structure and coherence.

But what’s going on now with Robbert (and with Foster and Thrive), is a step or two beyond the usual “civil vigilantism for the truth”. There’s something happening with guys like “Muertos” (who I suspect is probably more of a team than an individual) that calls for being very, very careful. One thing to notice about this “guy” is that he is very, very well informed about what it is he goes after- and I mean down to the history, the players, the real detailed nuances — and yet all he has to offer is dissention, ridicule and disbelief.”

This person evidently believes, as many readers of this blog do, that I’m a “paid disinformation agent.” This is a classic fallacy of conspiracy theorist thinking. Conspiracy theorists live in a shuttered universe, intentionally separated from any sources of information that would challenge their belief system. In this closed universe, no one could or would disagree with their conspiracy conclusions honestly, rationally or on their own. The only way they would ever disagree with conspiracy theories is if they’re being paid and/or criticizing conspiracy theories as part of some ideological, political or economic campaign. That’s what the term “disinformation” means in this context.

Repeating once again that I’m a totally ordinary private citizen, that I am one person working alone, and that I’m not being paid or directed by any government, agency, cartel, business interest, activist group, or any person at all to write Thrive Debunked is as pointless now as it ever was. Fans of Thrive who choose to accept this film’s misguided premises as their primary belief system will never accept that I’m not “working for someone.” I find it amusing that the accusation continues to be made, and repeated among my critics as if it is settled truth. It’s simply ridiculous.

Thrive fans aren’t the first conspiracy believers to accuse me of being a “paid disinformation agent,” nor the first to accuse me of being more than one person or having some sort of staff. In August 2011, a few months before Thrive came out, Peter Joseph Merola, the leader of the Zeitgeist Movement and creator of the conspiracy film series Zeitgeist (itself a major progenitor of Thrive), made the same accusations against me on his forum. I wrote an article about that incident on my other blog. Most amusing to me is the idea that I have a “staff.” I take it as a backhanded compliment. If people look at my blog and think it’s impossible that one guy can do all of this in his spare time, I suppose I must be pretty good at blogging!

I also take as a compliment the analyzer’s warning that I’m “very, very well informed about what it is he goes after- and I mean down to the history, the players, the real detailed nuances.” Yes, I am. A lot of research goes into the articles here. For various articles on Thrive Debunked, I have read numerous books, reviewed Congressional hearing testimony, conducted my own independent interviews, consulted newspaper archives, and emailed scientific experts to make sure my facts are right. This is, in fact, the difference between what I do and what Thrive does. I’d like to think this is a mark of quality. Thrive Debunked is listed on Rationalwiki.org’s page about the Thrive movie. It is also now a go-to source on the Debunkatron, a clearinghouse of conspiracy theory and woo belief debunkings. You don’t get listed on these sites by offering shoddy, poorly-researched material and just shouting opinions, which is what many angry Thrive fans accuse me of doing.

As for offering only “dissention, ridicule and disbelief,” this is, of course, false. I offer facts, evidence, and logical reasoning. Just to name a few at random, I offered the fact, backed by eyewitness testimony and historical data, that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was not a “false flag” operation. That fact had the effect of directly refuting Foster Gamble’s claim in Thrive about the Gulf of Tonkin affair. I offered the fact, backed by scientific evidence, that St. Sofia in Istanbul was constructed in the 530s (A.D.) using a process of earthquake-proof cement that was unknown to modern engineers until 2002—thus demonstrating that questions of ancient engineering do not indicate, as Thrive would have you believe, that certain structures must have been created by aliens. Most controversially on this blog, I offered the fact that crop circles of flawless geometric precision can be and are made by human beings in a short period of time with a few simple tools—a fact you can verify with your own eyes by watching it being done in the YouTube video embedded on that page.

Thrive fans do not like facts such as these, because they impugn the film’s conclusions. I have no control over what the facts are. As I’m fond of saying to conspiracy theorists, don’t blame the facts if they lead to a conclusion you don’t like.

So, What’s My Motivation?

The analysis goes on:

“Plus, (from what I can tell) he’s also not someone like Peter Sorenson, or Colin himself, having been a former true believer who for some reason became disillusioned. No, this guy “Muertos” appears to be a total independent, and a newbie at that. So, what’s his motivation? Why put so much effort into researching and debunking people and topics that you fundamentally don’t have any true regard for? There’s a disconnect here that deserves some attention, I think.

And the way he operates is 100% political — you can see that in the construction of the language he utilizes. There is certainly no real room in his approach for any sort of “open discussion” on the “possibilities” of what is real. So my question is: “what’s really going on here?”

“Colin” is Colin Andrews, a crop circle researcher who recently exposed the fraudulent video being supported by Nancy Talbott of BLTResearch.com, which is Thrive’s main source for the false claims made about crop circles at the beginning of the film. I’m not sure I understand the distinction the analyzer is making between “true believers” and “independents.” It is true, however, that the vast majority of high-commitment conspiracy theorist debunkers are former conspiracy theorists themselves. In fact, I am one of them. I used to believe very fervently that John F. Kennedy was assassinated by a government/CIA/Mafia conspiracy, and I also used to believe that TWA Flight 800, which exploded overLong Island in July 1996, was secretly shot down by the U.S. Navy. It was my recovery from this sort of conspiracy thinking that motivated me to try to prevent others from falling into it.

I am also not a “newbie.” I’ve been debunking conspiracy theories for over seven years. Although Thrive only came out a few months ago, I have a great deal of experience in researching and refuting conspiracy theories, from “9/11 Truth” to JFK, to cults, MLM scams  and other forms of what I call organized deception.

I strongly dislike conspiracy theories. They are harmful to society, corrosive to democracy, and inimical to rational and critical thinking. This is my motivation for speaking out against them. Nothing more, nothing less. (If you need a fuller explanation for this, see this article). Anyone who knows me knows that I do nothing by halves. If I committed myself to refuting the movie Thrive, it makes no sense that I would not try to do it as competently, completely, and persuasively as I possibly can. Otherwise I just wouldn’t do it. I find it bizarre that critics use the amount of effort I put into this blog to try to “prove” that I must be a “paid disinformation agent,” because no “real” person would put so much effort into refuting something they don’t like. That argument is ridiculous and ignores the powerful motivations that ordinary people find to speak out against things that they think are harmful.

My model in matters of debunking is a fellow named Mark Roberts. In 2005, Mr. Roberts committed to refuting and debunking the asinine conspiracy theorist film Loose Change, which claimed that “9/11 was an inside job.” Mark Roberts, who was known as Gravy on the JREF Forum, put together a website that is absolutely magnificent in its accuracy, its breadth of coverage, and its total refutation of the lies and errors contained in Loose Change. Who is Mark Roberts? He’s not a “paid disinformation agent.” He runs a tour service in New York City. He’s a totally normal guy. He achieved with Loose Change far more than I have with Thrive. But if you need proof that ordinary people really do get motivated enough to push back against conspiracy movies that are hurting people, all you need do is look at Mark Roberts’s website.

As for whether I am “open” to “possibilities,” I am open to anything—so long as the evidence demonstrates it is true. With regard to free energy, for example, I’ve stated many times that, although I believe free energy is impossible and a sham, if someone were to produce a free energy machine and demonstrate that it does what is claimed of it—in a public forum, and in a way where reputable scientists can verify and duplicate the machine’s operation—I will take down everything I’ve ever said about free energy. But Thrive fans can’t present that evidence. Nor can they present evidence for any of the other weird claims they make. Until and unless that evidence appears, it is entirely rational and justifiable for me to denounce these claims as false.

I would like to ask the person who wrote this analysis—what’s so unreasonable about asking for evidence?

“Disinfo” Again. There’s Something Going On!

“Something is definitely going on in my opinion, and there are few of us who are even aware of it, let alone oriented towards finding a way to deal with it. It’s a very dicey situation, and long-term, I feel. Someone is trying to “manage history” here, and we are in the crosshairs, so to speak. Your manner of reply, which is very similar to what Foster has attempted, has a lot of limitations in terms of really countering these initial disinformation salvos. Too much detail (for one thing), and not enough “sizzle”, and NO clout.

Disinfo is a very interesting game (and one I am not adept in — I just have an long-standing interest in it). It plays, of course, upon the lowest common denominator, upon common fears, and upon reinforcing existing and limited worldviews. Easy to do if you know the techniques, I would think.  Effectively countering it is a separate and unique process, I believe — and one I have tremendous interest in.”

Ooh, look at that! I’m trying to “manage history!” That term is silly. All I’m trying to do is present the facts, and educate people about the factual and logical deficiencies of the claims in Thrive. Is this “managing history?” What does that even mean?

As for this person’s interest in “disinformation,” I’d be glad to enlighten him/her. Whoever wrote this analysis is welcome to ask me any question they want about how much I’m being paid to write this blog ($0.00), who’s paying me (no one), what agenda I’m serving (none), how I do my research, or how I come up with subjects to cover. Seriously. I’ll totally honor this person’s anonymity if they like. My email is muertos@gmail.com. If they are so interested in “disinformation,” I offer myself as a resource to explore that interest.

The upshot of these last two paragraphs is another backhanded compliment. The person who wrote this is throwing up his or her hands and conceding that they know of no way to counter the hideous “disinformation” I’m spewing with my evil blog. That is not surprising; the facts speak for themselves. Conspiracy theorists, when confronted with facts they can’t deny, usually run away from them. That’s what’s happening in this case, except it’s not “disinformation” at all—it’s fact.

So yes, there is “something going on”: someone out there is viewing this blog through a very paranoid mindset, and seeing a number of things that simply aren’t there. Even to make the allegation that I’m some sort of “disinformation agent” betrays a level of paranoia that I frankly find very difficult to fathom. Another thing I have often told conspiracy theorists is that I don’t quite understand how their paranoid fantasy world works, but however it does, I’m glad I don’t live there.

SlayerX3’s Response to the Analysis

[SlayerX3 is a contributor and author of several articles on this blog including the three full-length debunkings, and the fine “Follow The Money” Debunked article. I do not pay him, I don’t direct what he writes, and he’s not working for anyone. Like me, he does this in his spare time and out of his own motivations.]

It is indeed a clear headed analysis but it also stumbles on the same problem when skeptics debunk or criticize events or theories: we eventually end up being either called “naysayers,” or worse, “disinformation agents.”

Topics like these are complicated to deal not with their subjects—since these are relatively easy to prove and show why they are wrong—but with the people who believe in them. Challenging an idea is easy. People can change or even shape ideas to correct fallacies and mistakes, but beliefs aren’t that easy [to change]. Since they have become rooted in people’s minds, challenging them will be always met with degrees of hostility or denial, along with other justifications by the believers to reinforce their beliefs but without addressing the questions that challenge those beliefs (such as the classic reasoning of, “If they are attacking me that means I’m right,” or “You are being paid to disagree with me”).

It is true some of those areas are far from being something we’d care about if there weren’t people trying to pass it as if those “happenings” were 100% true. I do not care if people believe in UFOs or Jewish shape-shifting reptilians, but I do care if people start spreading their version of a “truth” that doesn’t have any connection with reality, or a twisted interpretation of real-life facts to convey their own beliefs and convince other people to share them in a quasi cult-like manner. (It is worth it to cite groups like Desteni as an example of what can go extremely wrong with those beliefs).

Personally, I think the greatest motivation debunkers have is to force engagement with facts, in my case correcting the erroneous interpretation of physics and the pseudo-science in Thrive. Debunkers in general don’t have an agenda behind them besides showing where the mistakes and misinterpretations are.

[The analysis] mentions that we try to “manage history,” but this argument could be thrown back at them the same way they are throwing it at us. Movies like Loose Change and Zeitgeist attempted doing so for their own agenda, like the cuts in the 9/11 footage to insinuate the attacks were done by cruise missiles instead of planes (the Pentagon case in Loose Change) or to re-write history with false facts and misinterpretation of religions (the “Christ conspiracy” falsehood in Zeitgeist). The “disinformation” accusations are not something we take so lightly. When we debunk we’re not just saying “no, it didn’t happen like this PERIOD”—we focus on a more objective approach by doing research about the subject, showing from where and how we took the data werre using and taking a look at both sides before we reach any conclusions. And, more importantly, we never cease asking questions.

The difference is when we [debunkers] ask questions and look for answers, once we find one that is consistent with facts and reality we drawn our conclusions. Something I’ve noticed about conspiracy theorists is that no matter how much we prove their beliefs wrong and answer their questions, they keep asking questions until someone gives the answers they want to hear. (It doesn’t matter if this someone is telling the truth or not).

Perhaps the questioning is what really scares people in conspiracy theory circles, not the followers but the people responsible for spreading and making the [conspiracy] content. [The analysis] said we have a political agenda, which may or may not be true, I don’t in my case. But so do the creators of those movies, whether be it for money (Like Zeitgeist’s Peter Joseph Merola), to push a political agenda (Thrive’s Gamble) or simply for fame (I think David Icke fits). Debunkers, both professional and amateur, are seen as a threat by those people, a stone wall  between their beliefs and the people they feel they need to reach to accomplish these goals.

The phrase “Disinfo is a very interesting game (and one I am not adept in — I just have an long-standing interest in it). It plays, of course, upon the lowest common denominator, upon common fears, and upon reinforcing existing and limited worldviews” left me in awe a bit, since this is exactly what conspiracy theorists prey on. 9/11 conspiracy theories preyed on the broken sense of security among Americans; Zeitgeist and Thrive prey on the inequality and poverty problems around the world, blaming them on conspiracy groups and elites. The Protocol of the Elders of Zion (which David Icke refuses to say is fake) preys on hatred against the Jewish population. And it is clear these thoughts can be dangerous. They can either shift the attention to the wrong place or instigate hatred against a particular group of people.

There is an observation that should be reinforced about debunkers, the same one I stated in the beginning of this text: debunkers are called “disinformation agents” because we ask questions that will bring inconsistencies, fallacies and mistakes to the surface, and not only ask these questions but find views and facts to verify if the statements made by conspiracy theorists are factual or not. Since conspiracy theories tend not to be factual we’ve yet to find facts and evidence supporting conspiracy theories.

Remember the founding base of debunkers is skepticism. We won’t believe something outright without definitive proof.

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The First (Partial) Debunking of the Full-Length Thrive Movie.

This is Part I of the first debunking done on the full-length Thrive movie. More parts will be uploaded in coming days, and there will be additional debunking material that is more detailed, both on the full movie and on various individual aspects of it. This debunking is not by me, but by gabrieltech, who will (we hope) be a contributor to this blog.

——————————

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

The intro:

The movie begins with Foster Gamble’s early story and memories, introducing himself and showing his revelation where he apparently found a pattern involving a torus which is according to him, imbued to basically everything involving energy other common geometric patterns through history.

The torus:

First, I’d like to say that the torus is a very common shape and patter in nature, especially when it is related to magnetism, electromagnetism and magnets (how do they work?), then he introduces the vector equilibrium and states that those two are related to several physical phenomena including the creation of the universe and in all scales showing global weather patterns, the airflow from helicopters and a few things more.

No real problem so far but at around 15 minutes into the video he states that inventors using the torus have created devices that generate energy without using combustion, then he proceeds to use buzz words such as zero point energy, radiant or free energy and rebrands them as New Energy Technology.

Later Gamble states that much of the suffering in the world is directly linked to the lack of energy. While this is true in some cases, he completely ignores geopolitical, ethnical, religious and nationalistic conflicts and tensions. Gamble states that free unlimited free energy would improve the living condition of many and become a great break through(thanks captain obvious we didn’t notice), and then he asks who knew about such “potential” torus based devices.

The “Flower of Life”

Following this question Gamble proceeds showing several pieces of ancient works of art, sculptures paintings and even alphabets, most of those have spiral and circular patterns and drawings, claiming that the torus has been encoded in such works(some of the most notable are the Orobus snake and the Giza pyramid).

The flower of life in the Temple of Osiris in Abydos Egypt is mentioned and Hassim Haramein claims those have been burned into the atomic structure of the rock. No support is provided for the claim that it is “burned into the atomic structure of the rock.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_of_Life

http://www.floweroflife.org/folindia.htm

http://www.kch42.dial.pipex.com/egypttour_osirion.html

First, I have failed to find in any respectable source citing or confirming the veracity of this statement.

Second, this shape isn’t exclusive to the Egyptians. It has appeared in several cultures along the ages, given how Egypt was a cultural hub in the period of these markings those certainly were brought by foreign travellers and were imported to other regional cultures, this shape held a significant religious and philosophical meaning in representing life and time.

Third, while it is related to torus it isn’t limited to one shape of solids such as pyramids and tetrahedrons but a vast array of regular shapes.

Later Gamble claims the expanded 3D view of the Flower of life holds the vector equilibrium, but when I searched for more information regarding this aspect I could only find sites and articles made by Nassim Haramein or citing him as a source. Those who didn’t cite him as a source were either exoteric or another conspiracy theory websites that had no respectable sources or weren’t even sourced at all. No other serious academic report or article has been made to support such claims.

Gamble claims the flow of power in the structure is the torus (so far, this has been nothing but nonsense, as any regular shape can be fitted inside a spherical shape, making such claims proves nothing but basic geometric concepts).

After that Gamble brings that the same shape is also in the forbidden city in China. I stated earlier this shape is common in several cultures and it’s not surprising others also decided to reproduce it in their own works (it’s is a very beautiful pattern it’s easy to see why it was copied during history).

The sixty-four energy units:

Apparently the meaning of life, the universe and everything is 64. Most of the claims were hazy at best, the flower of life circles have been reproduced by several cultures during a time span ranging millennia from middle east (probably its origin, then it was exported to other countries) to as far as India and China.

One peculiar interesting claim was that the human DNA helix “has an alphabet of 64 codons that is used to encode our human DNA”.

Since I have no authority in genetics I can’t properly refute this claim, instead I’ll leave a link and a quote for you to make your own conclusions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA#Transcription_and_translation

Quoting from Wikipedia (yes, I quoted Wikipedia and yes it was from a reliable page so shut up).

“the codons of a gene are copied into messenger RNA by RNA polymerase. This RNA copy is then decoded by a ribosome that reads the RNA sequence by base-pairing the messenger RNA to transfer RNA, which carries amino acids. Since there are 4 bases in 3-letter combinations, there are 64 possible codons (43 combinations). These encode the twenty standard amino acids, giving most amino acids more than one possible codon. There are also three ‘stop’ or ‘nonsense’ codons signifying the end of the coding region; these are the TAA, TGA and TAG codons.”

Gamble along with Haramein imply an alien origin for the tetrahedron, the flower of life along the human knowledge of engineering, writing and science being passed to humanity through sun gods descending to earth to spread knowledge, later inferring that said gods were advanced extraterrestrials with an exposition of paintings as old as the first biblical representation of god and more recently from the Renaissance and 18th century paintings.

That is an off-shot that any major in both theology and history can properly refute and explain, unfortunately I’m neither.

[Muertos comment: I am a historian, and I can and will properly refute and explain these issues in a future entry.]

But the point is simple: Gamble is coercing the viewer into believing that ancient myths and creeds are tied to the existence of aliens and their coming to earth regardless of that being true or not, it doesn’t show any conclusive evidence besides paintings whose interpretation can vary from viewer to viewer.

The first interviews:

Steven Greer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSETI

What I know so far about him is that he is legally formed as a physician and became an ufologist.

He created the CSETI and the Disclosure project and has featured in several congresses about UFOs and abductions. One of the most notable appearance was in the History Channel’s Ancient Aliens show (which is very well known for its lack of credibility).

After a brief introduction, Greer makes a comment about the certain possibility of the existence of alien races as advanced or more than the human race and proceeds to show several footage containing alleged UFOs, several of which can be attributed to natural phenomena such as ball lighting and meteorites or pure mistaken sightings of weather balloons (I know this is a cliché explanation but it’s true), aircraft and even hoax videos who are manipulated to show an UFO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights#Explanations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning

One of the most baffling videos was the Mexico City skyline in 1997, an already admitted hoax.

http://brumac.8k.com/MexCityAug697/MexCtySmearAnalysis.html

Edgar Dean Mitchell, Sergeant Clifford Stone, Harry Allen Jordan, Col Dwynne Anderson and John Callahan.

These five men have two things in common: they used to work for the government (Mitchell was an astronaut, Stone and Jordan were military servicemen, John Callahan is a former FAA head of Accidents and Investigations) and all of them believe that the US government knows about the existence of aliens and actively tries to cover their existence.

Most of the reports I could find about them were either tied to other conspiracy theory sites some of which being the Greer’s Disclosure Project and an interview with Sergeant Stone on Burlington news.

There isn’t much official data about Mitchell besides his career as an engineer, astronaut and his mission as the pilot of Apollo 14. His views of aliens and UFO have the same issue that many others UFO and aliens advocators suffer from: lack of credible and verifiable sources.

He also believes a remote healer with the pseudonym of Adam Dreamhealer helped with the cure of his kidney cancer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell#cite_note-13

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/stone.html

http://www.nicap.org/articles/631002jordan_testimony_article.pdf (Jordan’s views of the event in the Disclosure project)

The incident they mention with UFO’s disabling nuclear missiles can be found in those articles

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8026971/Aliens-have-deactivated-British-and-US-nuclear-missiles-say-US-military-pilots.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1315339/Aliens-hit-nukes-They-landed-Suffolk-base-claim-airmen.html

The crop circles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_circle

Perhaps one of the most sensationalist parts of the documentary involves crop circles, which Gamble and his friends claim are made by extraterrestrials. There are several sites that either debunk or give detailed instructions about how those circles were man-made.

[Muertos comment: as I will cover in a future entry, if there is a rational explanation, supported by evidence, that crop circles are man-made, the rules of logic require you to assume that they are man-made until and unless proven otherwise–and that “proven otherwise” has a very high standard of proof. I say require because you simply don’t have a choice. Jumping to the conclusion that crop circles are extraterrestrial in origin, when there is a much easier and more rational explanation at hand, is simply bad logic. I consider this point absolutely conclusive regarding crop circles, but SlayerX3 is certainly correct to marshal the evidence, as he does, that they are man-made.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_opN9ghPKQ

Here is a link with the how-to guide into making convincing crop circles covering even the bent stalks, magnetized soil and exotic patterns:

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Crop-Circle

http://www.wikihow.com/Explain-Crop-Circles

“Could hoaxers have created all 5.000 of these patterns?”

Do not underestimate human boredom, publicity and search for attention.

The NASA message and the Chilbolton crop circle:

Perhaps the most extravagant crop circle, the crop circle in Childbolton in England is a quite interesting one first I’ll show what the NASA message is called the Arecibo message

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message

The message contains basic information about the Human Race such as location in our solar system, a sample of our genetic code and numeric system.

It wasn’t considered an attempt to make contact but simply a show of technical prowess as the clusters of stars where this message is aimed at is 25.000 light years away from earth, and is highly unlikely that an advanced species had picked up the message what was originally transmitted in 1974 and answered it in 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilbolton_Observatory

There is a radio scope and observatory no further than 200 meters away from the crops, it doesn’t help that previous crops have been targeted with pranksters (from the Childbolton’s observatory, possibly) and the crew of the Observatory is possibly familiar with the Arecibo message don’t give much credibility to this crop “circle” as it could be a detailed practical joke from the observatory’s crew.

http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/arecibo.html

http://www.rense.com/general13/mistakes.htm

http://www.rense.com/general13/arc.htm

http://www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=260

Author note: I had difficulty in finding mainstream and more reliable sources for this event, so make your own conclusions, along the links I’ve sent.

Later Gamble makes a bold and unfounded statement about how the crop circles, the torus, vector equilibrium are coherent and carry messages on how to access clean and unlimited energy and transportation.

More material from gabrieltech’s debunking of Thrive will be posted at a later time.