Paranoid Utopia: The Nightmare World That Thrive Would Give Us.

The makers and fans of Thrive are fond of stressing that they want a better world. Their ideas for creating a better world involve, first and foremost, ending the conspiracies that they insist are screwing up the planet, and second, implementing far right-wing libertarian political and economic ideology on a broad scale. As I wrote in a blog a few months ago about how the world of conspiracy theories is changing, Thrive represents a progression along the road of using conspiracy theories to sell a particular ideology. Zeitgeist: The Movie pioneered this idea, but Thrive has taken it a step farther. Thrive is aimed at a new generation of conspiracy theorists who aren’t satisfied merely to spread their erroneous versions of what they think the facts are, but to remake the world in an image more to their liking.

The problem, of course, is that the conspiracy theories are false, and their adherents’ ideas for changing the world are based on an incorrect and often downright delusional view of reality. That means that their solutions will have very severe unintended consequences, because their solutions aren’t aimed at solving real problems in the real world, but rather solving fake problems that exist only in their fantasy world. This blog will explore what sort of world we might end up with if these people had their way.

This vision is, by definition, speculative. But then again, so is George Orwell’s 1984, a book that many conspiracy theorists cite as prescient gospel truth, and which many believe is literally coming to pass now (or already has).

This article is not a prediction of what I think will come to pass, just as Orwell’s wasn’t either. This article is a profile of what may come to pass if conspiracy theorists of the sort who support Thrive had free reign to build the world that they say they want.

Setting the Scene: After the Next American Revolution.

Conspiracy theorists sometimes try to warn me about what’s going to happen to me in the future. They like to say things like I’m a “traitor” and a “collaborator,” and that I’ll get some kind of just deserts at some point in the future. This reasoning, which is (like most things conspiracy theorists believe in) not fully thought out, assumes that there will be some sort of “revolution” where presumably the current political order will be undone, the conspiracies that these people believe in will be halted, and those who supported them will be punished.

Thrive does not explicitly speak of such a revolution, but it’s clear that its adherents implicitly look forward to one. Foster Gamble talks about “obsoleting” the Global Domination Agenda. He is unwilling to be more specific than this, but it’s clear that he has in mind some sort of radical inversion of the current status quo. That is one way to describe a revolution.

This is a vision of the United States that exists approximately 50 years after a revolution, spearheaded by political and economic thinkers who believe (like the makers of Thrive do) in the most dominant conspiracy theories of today’s world, has swept away the old political and economic order. Whether that revolution is achieved by peaceful or institutional means, or (probably more likely) by violence, is not relevant. This article also presupposes that the conspiracy thinkers who take power believe in the same sort of far right-wing libertarian ideology that the makers of Thrive advance. This is not too farfetched. Libertarian ideology is becoming increasingly identified with conspiracy theories and conspiratorial belief systems—witness the high levels of support Ron Paul has received from people who believe in conspiracy theories. (Foster Gamble supports Ron Paul for President).

In this article I’ve included a section that demonstrates not only Thrive’s ideology, but also that proposed by followers of the Zeitgeist Movement, who similarly believe in conspiracy theories and have used them to advance an ideological plan for the future. Zeitgeist: The Movie was a key progenitor of Thrive, and many of its followers have shared the same goals, tactics and mindset, so it’s appropriate to treat them together.

Without further ado, let us travel ahead in time to the world conspiracy believers have built.

The Money System: No Fed, No Fiat, No Funding.

Just as in our world today, the key factor in the America that conspiracy theorists have built is money. The problem, however, is that there isn’t any. In a post-conspiracy America, there are no banks or formal financial institutions. In the past 50 years, conspiracy theories regarding banks, finance and currency—infused with libertarian propaganda—became so prevalent that the banks either collapsed, were outlawed, or were driven out of business. Needless to say the U.S. Federal Reserve was the first to go. “Fiat currency” is the ultimate evil, the tool of the Illuminati for world domination, so the very appearance of it is social taboo. Just as libertarians and conspiracy theorists today demand, the U.S. is back on the gold standard: all currency is backed by gold. However, early in the revolution, large corporations quickly purchased all of the gold bullion in the United States from the failing banks. All of this gold is still held in their vaults, heavily guarded. It never enters circulation. Gold and gold-backed currency are still traded by the large corporations, but in purely theoretical transactions that take place on balance sheets and in computer programs.

As a result of this situation, there is no currency in circulation. The U.S. Treasury stopped printing money decades ago. In fact, due to massive de-funding of government, the U.S. Treasury no longer exists. No one has seen a piece of paper currency or coin except in a museum.

But because the amount of gold bullion in the United States is only a tiny fraction of the amount of money needed to keep the economy moving, and because the gold reserves are under effective control of private corporations, America has become a land of barter economies. Corporations who wish to do business with each other trade favors, contractual obligations and customers; this form of barter has been unofficially institutionalized in the form of “credits,” which are not backed by any precious metals. Ironically, credits exactly mimic most of the features of “fiat currency” that has been supposedly outlawed and socially stigmatized. In rural areas, as we will see, the chief form of currency is ammunition. Needless to say, the ideals of a conspiracist economy and the realities do not match up.

The Cities: Corporate Feudalism.

The supplanting of democracy by conspiracist thinking and libertarian ideology had the effect, during the revolution, of dismantling government at all levels. Because there is no effective law and the economy collapsed, the result was large-scale anarchy. Major cities are the only islands of calm in a sea of violence and lawlessness.

These major cities are all run by an interlocking coalition of corporations—the same ones that control all the gold and all the wealth in American society. The major function of these corporations is to sell social services to city residents, and they are all monopolies. The Law Enforcement Corporation sells physical security. The Habitation Corporation sells housing. The Food Corporation sells food. The Justice Corporation sells access to the wholly-privatized court system. There is no economic competition. There is also no regulation. Prices are fixed, but in this environment prices don’t matter, as we’ll see.

The cities are walled enclaves, heavily guarded by military personnel, where residents have at least a chance at a life above the anarchy and poverty of the outside world—but at a huge cost. The price for a house alone in one of the cities is far beyond the amount of gold, credits or barter that any ordinary person could ever possess in a lifetime. Nevertheless, the corporations waive their prices and admit new residents in exchange for lifetime commitments to work for them—commitments secured by immense debt loads. This form of indentured servitude is essentially feudalism: the workers cannot quit, cannot lobby, cannot organize, and can be fired and expelled from the city for any reason or no reason. Social mobility is unknown. It is impossible for a common worker—one who cleans the streets, works in the restaurants, drives the bus, provides childcare, etc.—to rise above his or her station; the debt load that the common person has taken on in exchange for living in the city is insurmountable in a dozen lifetimes. In fact, the corporations have begun to tack the balance of peoples’ unpaid debts on to the debts of their children in exchange for agreeing to let their children continue to live in the city after they reach the age of majority. In this way, the corporations acquire an underclass of hereditary serfs, bound to the land and the lord, just like medieval feudalism. These serf-like customers are often traded between corporations as a form of barter.

The corporations have no incentive to treat the workers well. So many more people want to get into the cities than the number of slots available. Consequently the labor supply is cheap and inexhaustible, so any concessions to workers are an unnecessary drain on efficiency. Workers toil 14 hours a day, seven days a week. If they get sick, they are fired and sent out of the city. The workforce is all-white. African-Americans, Asians, Native Americans and especially Jews are forbidden from even entering one of the cities. Because there is no government left to enforce anti-discrimination laws and the Law Enforcement Corporation has a corporate policy to ignore them, even egregious discrimination goes completely unpunished.

Although they live better than anyone else in the society, the directors and managers of the corporations don’t live without fear. The influence of conspiracist thinking at all levels of society makes a stable existence very precarious. All it takes is one errant accusation that a person is working for the Illuminati, or even sympathizes with the Illuminati, and the person will be ostracized from society, fired from his job and quite possibly expelled from the city itself. Evidence is irrelevant, and legal process is unnecessary; an accusation, even an implausible one, is tantamount to guilt. Savvy businessmen routinely accuse their rivals of being Illuminati agents. Promotion and demotion within corporations is due far less often to merit and hard work than it is personnel shifts as a result of firings and expulsions from the city, most of them reactions to conspiracy allegations. Consequently, the corporations are poorly-run, grotesquely wasteful and rife with incompetence. Because they have a captive base of indentured customers, however, and competence and efficiency have no economic value, the ineptitude of the corporate managers has no effect on profits.

Because the corporate management class clearly understands that their power and influence is based on the conspiracist order, they have a vested interest in perpetuating belief in conspiracy theories. In addition to the “legitimate” corporations ruling the cities, there is also a shadowy Conspiracy Corporation. The service this corporation provides is to stage violent incidents, plant fake evidence and deliberately sow distrust and fear among the cities’ populations. The Conspiracy Corporation’s customers are the other corporations who run the city, and who pay it to create havoc as a means of controlling the customer-serfs through fear. Every few weeks the Conspiracy Corporation instigates a random shooting or other act of violence in a public place, which is heavily publicized and blamed on the Illuminati. This fiction maintains the public’s belief that the Illuminati exists and is actively seeking to undermine society. Ironically, in a society built on reaction to nonexistent conspiracies like the Illuminati or New World Order, something very close to what the Illuminati was imagined to be has come into actual existence—thus turning conspiracy theorist beliefs into a self-perpetuating cycle.

The Countryside: Mad Max With Pogroms.

If life is bad in the cities, it’s even worse in the countryside. Government—feared and vilified by conspiracy theorists as the root of all evil—simply does not exist, although the laws, including the U.S. Constitution, are still technically on the books. Outside the cities, there are no police, no local or state officials, and no organization of any kind. There are no courts. There are no hospitals. There are no schools. Roads crumbled into dust decades ago because no one was around to maintain them. No one provides any private social services. For one thing, the big corporations have nothing to gain by selling their services outside the city; the rural population has no money to pay for them anyway. For another, they don’t need the business; they’ve got more customers than they can serve within the walls of the cities. Outside those walls, people manage to survive—barely—by tilling their own tiny farms at a subsistence level.

The level of violence in the countryside is shocking. During the revolution, the only personal liberty that was even remotely respected was the right to bear arms, and out in the country you can’t survive without heavy firepower. Family farms are defended by minefields, barbed-wire fences and kids toting automatic weapons. In many areas, warlords have managed to take over the more productive farms, resulting in irregular patchworks of fiefdoms that are constantly fighting with each other. In addition to outright barter, ammunition is the chief de facto currency in these areas. Heavy weaponry looted from abandoned U.S. military bases is the chief source of power. Life in this libertarian paradise is, in the famous words of Thomas Hobbes, “nasty, brutish and short.”

Disease takes a terrible toll on all sectors of society, including the rich in the cities, but out in the countryside it’s particularly bad. Vaccines of any kind are distrusted as tools of the Illuminati. As a result, diseases that are easily preventable—polio, measles, rubella, chicken pox, etc.—kill and cripple tens of thousands every year, especially children. Infant mortality is frightful. There are no doctors in these outlying areas. They too were denounced long ago as tools of conspirators; during the revolution many doctors, accused of hiding cancer cures and collaborating with Illuminati-controlled pharmaceutical companies, were massacred or driven out of business. Even medical knowledge itself is dying out since all the medical schools were closed long ago.

The people who fare the worst in this society are Jews. Universally blamed for the imaginary conspiracies that supposedly brought society to the brink of ruin, Jews are refused entry to the cities, and in the countryside they are ruthlessly persecuted and massacred with regularity in horrific pogroms that resemble those of medieval Europe—except with automatic weapons. What few Jews remain have walled themselves up in heavily-armed ghettos with even worse conditions than the countryside whose virulently anti-Semitic (and heavily-armed) population they are hiding from. Nevertheless, as much as they hate Jews, the common people and the more powerful warlords of the countryside cannot organize any collective efforts to exterminate them, as much as they would like to. This inability is the only thing that allows the insular Jewish communities that still exist to carry on, hopeful that someday conditions will change and the world will come to its senses.

Zeitgeist City: A Special Corner of Hell.

One of the walled cities that exists in the anarchic countryside is a medium-sized settlement in swampy Florida. It was established during the revolution as a “Test City” for the RBE or “Resource Based Economy” model, advocated by an almost-forgotten conspiracist organization called the Zeitgeist Movement. Everyone calls this place “Zeitgeist City” for that reason. Inside its heavy steel walls, the convergence of paranoid conspiracist thinking and failed utopian ideology has created a very special kind of hell.

Zeitgeist City is a city of contrasts. In the center of its broad circular plazas there stands a gilded statue of Peter Joseph, creator of the Zeitgeist films, who is regarded in the city as sort of a savior and saint. Beyond the buildings and well-trimmed lawns, however, Zeitgeist City resembles Calcutta on a bad day. Thousands of people are crammed together in pathetic hovels with no running water or electricity. Except for the tasks assigned (without pay, of course) by the city’s ruling elite, there are no jobs; the ideology of an RBE society has outlawed labor as unnecessary. Crime is rampant, but, as the existence of crime conflicts with RBE ideology, it is generally ignored. Most people survive on a black market barter economy, the existence of which is ignored because it is also inconsistent with RBE ideology. Nearly everyone lives a hair’s breadth above starvation level. Although a central feature of the city is large-scale hydroponic vertical “farmscrapers,” these buildings are so energy-intensive and inefficient that they cannot grow very much food, and are not even functioning most of the time.

Everything in Zeitgeist City—every article of clothing, every shoddy consumer good, every plastic tub of tasteless processed food—is catalogued with a bar code. The worst offense in Zeitgeist City is to be caught possessing anything that doesn’t have a bar code. Armies of inventory control techs armed with laser scanners fan out through the city every day, scanning everything. All the codes are fed daily into a central computer system, which then allocates the resources according to a mysterious algorithm. Goods are then redistributed every morning according to the computer’s dictates. Thus, if the computer has decided that a spoon you own is better allocated to the family living next door to you in your squalid apartment, you must give it up to them. This redistribution occurs every day at the distribution centers, where Zeitgeist City dwellers spend most of their time waiting in line either to give up their possessions or receive somebody else’s. The lines, the distribution center and even the computer making the decisions are all under the control of the city’s elite rulers, who call themselves the Allocators. They enforce their dictate through violence. Anyone caught disobeying the dictates of the computer, or possessing property not officially allocated to them, is rounded up by the Allocators’ heavily-armed thugs and sent out of the city as slaves.

In theory the computer allocates resources based on “the scientific method.” Because this concept is meaningless when applied to resource allocation, however, in reality the computer distributes resources purely by random chance. That the resource allocation algorithm in the computer is actually a random number generator was such a closely-guarded secret that knowledge of it has died out. Even the Allocators themselves believe the computer has a methodology; they mistake the random decisions of the computer for “the scientific method,” and they don’t possess enough scientific acumen to notice the difference. Therefore, belief in the infallibility of the distribution computer has become a religious belief in Zeitgeist City. No one dares to question it.

Because Zeitgeist City produces virtually nothing, not even for its own people, it is entirely dependent upon imports of food and needed supplies from nearby Miami, a corporation-controlled walled city. Zeitgeist City compensates Miami by sending it regular shipments of slaves to replenish its labor force. In order to keep this arrangement going the Allocators insist that they possess a short-range missile, tipped with a nuclear warhead, with which they will obliterate Miami if the flow of aid ever stops. In reality there is no warhead and the missile is a non-functioning mock-up stolen from an aerospace museum, kept poised menacingly to the south in a public park surrounded by flowers and hedges. Zeitgeist City’s walls are heavily defended with heavy-caliber machine guns and SAM missiles. The Allocators tell their populace that the city is constantly under siege by Illuminati goons—referred to as Trolls—who are seeking to destroy the city in order to eliminate the proud example of RBE superiority. In reality the city is not under siege and the Trolls do not exist, but the Allocators fire the weapons along their walls a few times a day to promote the illusion that the siege is continuing. As in any other walled city, accusations of Illuminati complicity are routinely used as tools of terror to keep the populace in order, and an unending stream of pro-RBE and conspiracist propaganda flows from the Allocators’ many loudspeakers all over the city, within which every inhabitant is forever in earshot.

The Allocators claim, and not without some foundation, that Zeitgeist City is “the most progressive community in the United States.”

Knowledge—Forbidden Fruit.

The revolution that brought the conspiracy order to power was profoundly anti-intellectual. Experts on anything—especially scientists (who explained how things really worked), economists (who argued against the economic changes), historians (who explained how the past had really occurred) and doctors (who were accused of suppressing cancer cures and tainting vaccines)—were mercilessly persecuted and massacred. In the revolution, all the universities were closed. Many libraries were burned or destroyed, their books distrusted as tools of the Illuminati. The Internet was regarded as a much more pure and reliable source of knowledge, because the Internet contained “the truth” about conspiracies and books did not. As a result, in this conspiracist order, systemized education barely exists, libraries are virtually nonexistent, and most books are locked away and forgotten in vaults owned by the major city corporations—similar to the way books in the Middle Ages were locked up in monasteries.

The corporate managers of the cities, understanding that their power rests upon the perpetuation of conspiracy theories, carefully control what knowledge gets out to the common people. Any book or document that even remotely refutes or even questions conspiracy theories has been destroyed or altered after the fact to support conspiracy explanations. In this world, Osama bin Laden is lauded as a martyr, on whom the Illuminati unfairly blamed 9/11 and then assassinated him for this imaginary crime. Books or websites about Adolf Hitler routinely omit the Holocaust and instead laud his pro-free-market policies. American history books are wildly inaccurate, and present the country’s history as a relentless narrative of exploitation and conspiracies by the Illuminati and the Jews. Even science books contain numerous errors and omissions.

But, not many people read these books anyway; in fact, literacy has declined greatly because education as we now know it has ceased to exist. Most common people get all of their information from the Internet, which is controlled by the Information Corporation. There is very little written text on the Internet. Most material is either in the form of pictograms or videos. Almost all are either pornography, or simple morality plays dramatizing the evil and immorality of the Illuminati and the Jews. Most of these videos are less than a minute long and feature some hideously gory act of violence. Even very young children are desensitized to the most horrible images of human suffering, having been exposed to an unending stream of images of brutal retributions carried out against Illuminati sympathizers. Schools in the cities—at least for the common customer-serfs—consist almost entirely of pods where children surf the Internet for a few hours a day. Elite parents send their children (at exorbitant cost) to schools run by the Education Corporation, and in these schools there is some basic instruction in reading, math and shoddy third-rate science, but interspersed with very heavy doses of conspiracist and libertarian propaganda.

As the knowledge of true history, true science and critical thinking gradually fades, society is rapidly losing any real sense of its past or itself. Almost all events in history are reduced and simplified to a one-note narrative of exploitation by the Illuminati followed by the redemption of the revolution. Ancient history and the origins of man are described as being the result of extraterrestrial visitation. No one in this society knows that humans built the pyramids; even well-educated elites accept and honestly believe that all prehistoric structures of this nature were constructed by aliens. The major religions are all waning in practice. There are very few churches left. No one in this society has read or even heard of Shakespeare, of Tolstoy or of Leonardo Da Vinci. No one has ever been to an art museum or a music concert. In 100 years’ time, the collective store of human knowledge existing on Earth will have been reduced by half or more. It is truly a new Dark Age.

The Environment—A Rising Tide of Disaster.

Because there is no government, no environmental regulation and the city corporations have no incentive to be environmentally responsible, America is a stinking cesspool of environmental degradation. The corporation-run cities generate power through burning coal and oil—all reserves privately owned and controlled, of course. The cities export their garbage to the countryside where it sits in rotting heaps, breeding diseases and cancer clusters among the semi-feral rural population. Rural dwellers routinely build and furnish their own houses from the refuse of the cities, much of it contaminated. Because the corporate-run cities have no need for water treatment facilities—they can simply pump their sewage into the rivers at zero cost—rivers downstream of the major cities are indescribably foul. There are few forests left, the rural residents having deforested their lands for firewood.

The worst problem is global warming. Because the conspiracist order denounced anthropogenic global warming as a scam and a hoax by the Illuminati, even mentioning the existence of this problem is absolutely forbidden. Absolutely nothing has been done to ameliorate global warming—in fact, America’s carbon emissions since the revolution have increased, despite having much less industry, because the corporations that run the cities have changed over to dirtier and more inefficient means of energy production and industrial usage. Rising sea levels have inundated coastlines. In the larger coastal cities like New York, makeshift seawalls have been built to hold back the ocean (built by slave labor of customer-serfs), but in rural coastal areas, the rising sea levels have turned many areas into fetid swamps. These swamps breed mosquitoes, which results in a high incidence of malaria in areas where it had once been thought to be eradicated. Combined with society’s distrust of doctors—thanks to conspiracy theories about suppressed cancer cures and tainted vaccines—the mortality from tropical diseases is much higher than it was before the revolution.

Global warming has also made peoples’ jobs of feeding themselves much harder. Food crops are more difficult and costlier to raise, invasive and parasite species are hardier and more difficult to kill, and erosion of desiccated topsoil has turned Nebraska, Iowa and Kansas into semi-arid wastelands incapable of cultivation. The increased strength of hurricanes due to global warming results in large swaths of the Atlantic coast being decimated at regular intervals—and because there is no government there are no relief agencies. No one pays any attention to these problems. In the cities, even mentioning the words “global warming” will mark you as an Illuminati sympathizer; in the countryside, the scientific knowledge to explain what’s happening no longer exists. In the meantime greenhouse gases continue to foul the atmosphere at an ever-increasing rate. The disaster of global warming is now, fifty years after the revolution, far beyond man’s capacity to reverse it.

When the sun sets on this bleak country, filled with pollution and decay, its rays bleed through layers of carbon dioxide vapor and sulfuric acid. It sets on mosquito-infested marshes that were comfortable beachfront communities 60 years before. The clouds approaching on the horizon are filled with acid rain. Their caustic drops fall on acres of landfills and junkyards, oozing poison into a water table already contaminated with toxic chemicals and human feces. This is the brave new world that conspiracy ideology has built.

Conclusion

No sane person would wish for a world characterized by these specific results: desperate impoverishment, corporate feudalism, widespread violence, resurgent disease, intellectual and cultural stagnation, and environmental devastation. But this could very well be the world that would result from the policies and ideologies advocated by conspiracy theorists. Failure to understand the world and its problems as they really are, and blind adherence to ideologies and systems of thought that are clearly at odds with objective reality, will undoubtedly result in unintended consequences.

Yet, on some level, this is exactly the world Thrive wants to give us. This is a world where no one pays taxes, where there is no government coercion, where the Federal Reserve has been abolished and currency backed by gold, where the “free” market is totally unfettered, and where the populace is vigilant against conspiracies of any kind. This is a world where all people thrive.

Well—maybe not all.

About these ads

Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

86 responses to “Paranoid Utopia: The Nightmare World That Thrive Would Give Us.”

  1. The Locke says :

    Sounds like a dystopia novel…

  2. SlayerX3 says :

    Terrible world to live, excellent setting for a cyber punk game.

    You know what? I’m taking this to make a Eclipse Phase or D20 Modern game setting.

    Oh wanna know an even more specific game that almost completely matches this? Syndicate, both new and old versions.

    • CyborgJesus says :

      Fallout: Highlands County

      Exclusive features: Amero replaces bottle caps, all of the energy weapons are patented but none of them actually work, all ghouls carry a copy of Atlas Shrugged and securitons hand out copies of Zeitgeist V: “We’re still around” before shooting you in the head.

  3. CyborgJesus says :

    If TVP’s movie followed this post’s scenario, I might actually watch it.

  4. Nameless says :

    That’s a great idea for a movie. But as ‘Thrive movement’ is definitely a New Age form of conspiracism and part of the same general social movement as represented by the likes of other New Age conspiracist phenomena, like Project Camelot, David Icke and David Wilcock’s Divine Cosmos etc, then in this future world scenario surely there would also be a religion involving self-appointed prophets and channelers spouting imaginary dogma and stories about UFOs, aliens, humans from the future, reptilians, crystals, Atlantis, reincarnation etc and promoting all sorts of quack medicine to keep the citizens amused.

    Liquid Buddha Studios, the company that produced the special effects integral to the Thrive movie, have had among their past clients Michel St Clair, who makes astrological predictions and sells magic crystals, the Institute of HeartMath, which is listed in QuackWatch and sells stress-reduction gizmos, and associated project WingMakers which produces New Age frippery in the form of a multi-media fantasy art concept. As far as I know the Torus was featured in a WingMakers DVD ten years ago.

    • Karolyn says :

      How do you know “new age” “frippery”is not true and real? Spirituality and all it entails is not something to be scoffed at.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        If there is a medical claim that appears to defy our basic understanding of medicine and the human body, then it requires significant evidence. It is not our job to prove that “spirituality” is false, it is your job to prove that it is valid.

      • Karolyn says :

        At this moment I don’t have time to post links; however, experiments have been conducted that prove that prayer works in healing people. The power of the collective consciousness exists. There is also much evidence that natural healing methods work without enriching the pockets of Big Pharma and without side effects.

      • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

        Dear Karolyn,

        You are obviously a paid information agent of the Thrive Movement. So just how much money is Foster Gamble paying you to come on this blog and try to bully anyone who dares disagree with your employer’s movie?

        Have you no shame, young lady?

      • Karolyn says :

        Why is it that when I post on a blog that I have some disagreement with I am always confronted with the same accusations? Sad – Very sad. I try to get opinions from all corners, which does tend to be confusing. However, I believe it is important to hear what everyone has to say before coming to a conclusion on anything. However, there are a few things I do not compromise on. Does everybody agree in YOUR perfect world?

      • Sarah says :

        Karolyn, please be more specific, which experiments and what evidence?

      • karolyn says :

        Well, here is one link with a list of studies.

        http://blog.beliefnet.com/prayerplainandsimple/2009/10/for-prayer-skeptics-studies-that-show-the-health-benefits-of-prayer.html

        There is really so much info out there. A very interesting subject. So much wonder! It really has nothing to do with religion either. There is a mind-body connection. People who receive bad news and sink into depression are more apt to be sick than those who are optimistic. That’s just logical. You probably don’t believe the soul or spirit lives beyond the body either. Sad. Spirit is energy, and energy lives forever. Thought is energy. Everything is energy.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        Karolyn, if you are claiming that prayer can work as a placebo, you aren’t going to find any disagreement. That seems to be the gist of your claims.

      • Nameless says :

        Karolyn, I don’t scoff at spirituality but New Age has very little to do with spirituality. The New Age is a sector of the consumer market where a certain target audience is susceptible to various types of misguided idealism, quackery and fraud. The same audience for whom Liquid Buddha Studios are creating imagery. WingMakers is certainly real but it is not true, not least because the author describes it as a modern myth or a mixture of fact and fiction. I call it New Age frippery because it is a frivolous re-cycling of New Age and occult clichés in a very extravagant artsy multi-media format. Its aesthetic and the “philosophy” behind it in fact would appeal to New Agers and no other type of audience. It’s a form of New Age conspiracism, as is Thrive.

      • Karolyn says :

        New Age is just a label given to people who believe in spiritual “law” rather than the accepted Biblical view. In the early days, it was called New Thought and some still use that term. I have felt that there is no better way to make money than in helping others, which many in the field are doing. The more people who join the movement, the more positive energy there is to help reverse all the negative energy put out. The New Thought movement is not joined at the hip with “Thrive.” As a matter of fact, it is somewhat of a crossover vehicle in my view. I am a newcomer to Debunking Thrive and am fascinated. As an open-minded New Thinker, I investigate all sides to many issues to formulate my own conclusions. At this point I lean more to the “yay” side rather than the “nay” side when it comes to Thrive. There is much good in it. Having an inquiring mind can be a bit confusing at times. :-)

      • Karolyn says :

        Mr. Anon – How do you account for prayer assisting sick people who don’t even know they’re being prayed for?

      • Mr. Anon says :

        Can you show strong evidence that can be replicated in a controlled setting?

      • Sarah says :

        Karolyn, there is a brain-body connection. Without the brain nothing in the body works. Both physical and emotional changes are the results of chemical reactions. The brain reacts to stimuli by releasing chemicals that make the person feel a certain kind of way. If someone receives bad news, the brain will release some chemical(s) [I don't know which] that will make that person feel sad, distressed, upset, etc. Being more prone to disease while being depressed may be due to a weaker immune system caused by those chemicals that made the person feel depressed in the first place. I’m in no way an expert on this so I suggest you go read about it on your own.
        This is the last paragraph of the article for which you provided the link:
        “Granted: These studies do not prove that God works in prayer. They do demonstrate a clear connection between spirituality and a corresponding physical and emotional health.”
        To me, all this proves is that prayer is, like Mr. Anon wrote, a placebo. It makes sense for the person who is praying to feel better about him/herself because the prayer takes their concentration away from whatever is afflicting them but for this to work you have to believe in it. I don’t believe it works, so no matter how much I pray, it won’t make me feel any better or healthier. When something works, it works regardless of my opinion of it.

        “How do you account for prayer assisting sick people who don’t even know they’re being prayed for?”
        How do you know it was the prayer that was assisting them? There is no way to prove this. There is nothing to measure, nothing to test.

      • Nameless says :

        Karolyn, sure, New Thought is one aspect of multifarious influences on New Age and the amorphous pseudo-philosophy that goes by that name. The Human Potential Movement and Theosophy being two others.

        But I don’t see there is any law that is spiritual, whether or not such a thing is supposed to be opposed to Biblical or any other religious scripture. The term, “spirituality” has been thoroughly debased by the New Age consumerist religion, which panders to narcissism of charlatans, false idealism and irrational fantasies.

        New Age might seem to be a label given to spiritual people, but it is more a mode of consumer marketing aimed at spiritual or religious people.

        As shown at this blog, New Age cons like “Thrive” merely serve as extreme right-wing libertarian propaganda, designed to appeal to conspiracy theorists, and folks into paranormal and ufological myths.

        I would tentatively suggest you could maybe explore the positive in a negative light and vice versa. Consider the evidence.

      • muertos says :

        I think the “New Age” aspect of Thrive is very important. One of the key functions of this movie is to explain the failure of New Age ideas. Foster Gamble is heavily involved in a milieu of aging Baby Boomers, many of them centered on the west coast, who have been into New Age stuff for 30 or more years. Most of the major purveyors of New Age ideas–Carlos Castaneda, J.Z. Knight, Shirley MacLaine, etc.–are either dead or are no longer active on the scene. Yet after 30 years of crystals, gurus and self-help books, New Age ideas have failed to transform society in the ways promised back in the 70s and 80s.

        Thrive offers an explanation for this. New Age hasn’t worked because the evil “other” (the Global Domination Agenda) has stepped in to suppress it.

        You see this assumption in action all over this blog. While many commenters probably would not self-identify as New Age followers, they certainly have internalized many of its ideas. A lot of the anger directed at me from Thrive fans stems from a judgment that I’m standing in the way of the development of human potential. This is exactly the narrative Thrive wants its viewers to subscribe to–that they (Thrive) have the answers, but the evil “others” (like Muertos) are suppressing it. This also represents the seamless melding of New Age ideas and conspiracy theories.

      • Karolyn says :

        The “New Age” movement has made tremendous strides in the paste few years due to the internet. There are those working to reach more and more people to have more of a global conversation. it is thought by some that if we can rich a tipping point, the world will change. So many theories abound it is very confusing. I have actually only watched Thrive once and downloaded it onto my computer for later viewing. The whole thing has become very confusing to me. I have been a regular reader/poster on Personal Liberty, which you may know is a conservative, rather libertarian site. Most of the conservatives and libertarians on PLD are VERY Christian and do not hold with New Age. I am having a hard time blending your idea of libertarianism as New Age with what I know of libertarians.

        Personally, I do not see that the “evil others” are suppressing the movement. I see it as growing exponentially despite the Christian suppression of it. Of course there are people capitalizing on it. As far as I’m concerned, as long as they don’t hurt anybody and are spreading the word, good for them. They are helping people more than hurting them. I have been helped tremendously by the many excellent teachers out there. What better way to make a living than by helping others (which has been my motto for many years)?

        In all areas of my life, I focus on good, giving only passing attention to “bad.” That is what is most important in New Thought. “As ye think, so shall ye be.”

        To complicate me more, I recently found a skeptic site with information that the Rothschilds/Rockefellers, et al, contributed to the libertarian movement. I want to find a libertarian who can explain that away.

        Excuse me for rambling, but there is so much in my head; and I’m trying to sort it out.

      • muertos says :

        Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think New Age beliefs are inherently bad–any more than Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc. are inherently bad. All religions have negative and destructive aspects. Most of them have very positive aspects too. Despite what most people may think, I do not oppose faith-based belief systems (I’m not, for example, an atheist, as the vast majority of conspiracy debunkers are). But what happens in the realm of faith and belief stays in that realm and is not appropriate to explain real facts in the real world. You aren’t seeing the Virgin Mary in a piece of toast because the toast has been blessed by God; you’re seeing it because something in your brain makes you recognize random patterns as the Virgin Mary.

        That said, I think New Age beliefs have been a breeding ground for charlatans, cranks and frauds. There are certainly these kinds of hucksters in most religions, and especially Christianity, and we should oppose them not because they are Christians or New Agers, but because they’re cranks and frauds who are hurting people. Jim Jones, for example, employed a lot of trickery to convince followers he could heal people with prayer. Jim Jones was a sick and evil man. It had nothing to do with Christianity, but he was a sick and evil man independently of that, as the events at Jonestown in 1978 proved.

        I also agree with you that New Age ideas have been at least traditionally incompatible with right wing political ideology. That’s one reason why Thrive is so bizarre and aberrant–it’s attempting to justify far right wing libertarian ideology through New Age principles. Any use of religion for political ends is usually bad and Thrive is no exception.

        What I truly object to about Thrive is (as always) its promotion of conspiracy theories. New Age has, in recent years, veered uncomfortably close toward conspiratorial terrain. Foster Gamble is only making it worse. This is what’s so unfortunate about Thrive–it’s already got the New Age crowd behind it, and now it intends to introduce the New Age crowd to conspiracy theorizing and hard-right libertarian ideology. This is an ominous development, and, while I don’t follow New Age beliefs, I would think any self-respecting New Ager would reject Thrive and its harmful ideologies as inimical to the tenets of New Age beliefs.

      • Karolyn says :

        Thank you Muertos. That is something that has confused me. It is very hard to integrate my spiritual beliefs with conspiracy thory. At first watch, I felt the correlation was made. I think I’m going to watch the movie again this weekend. With the new info I’ve received here, I might have a different view.

      • Karolyn says :

        Nameless – “The term, “spirituality” has been thoroughly debased by the New Age consumerist religion, which panders to narcissism of charlatans, false idealism and irrational fantasies.”

        Of course, there are people who use movements to their own benefit. As far as I’m concerned, as long as they believe in what they are teaching, they are not charlatans. I have learned much and grown from what I have been taught by the likes of Neale Donald Walsch, Abraham-Hicks and Wayne Dyer. I do not believe my mental state would be in as good a shape as it is if it were not for those people and others. I am most certainly better for having studied their works. Those “irrational fantasies” you write of just might be real. I am very grateful to be a “seeker” and to have experienced everything from being a Christian filled with fear to a free spirit recognizing the goodness in everybody.

        As far as New Age being right wing, that is way out in left field. The majority, if not all, of right wingers I have interacted with will have nothing to do with New Age. They are, for the most part, Christians and believe it is of the devil.

      • Nameless says :

        Muertos, you wrote:
        “New Age ideas have been at least traditionally incompatible with right wing political ideology”

        Some New Age ideas are on the surface incompatible with right-wing ideology, yes, I agree, but most of the basic, fundamental New Age ideas are well known to have traditionally influenced right-wing ideologies. There is an undercurrent of extreme right-wing ideology in all New Ageism and it can be traced back to Blavatsky’s theory of “root races”, re-interpreted by the Nazis. Some New Age conspiracists concede to this.

        Rudolf Steiner expressed racist views. There would be no New Age without Steiner or Blavatsky. The list goes on. Elizabeth Clare Prophet, for example.

        Many of these paragons of New Ageism were or are anti-Semites, fascists or have contributed to contemporary neo-Nazism and/or right-wing libertarianism. This is historical fact. Contemporary New Age proffers a theocracy with fascistic undertones, often involving militaristic ETs in uniform, but usually a fantastical “higher”, new race of spiritually evolved humans beyond human. Check Barbara Marx Hubbard.

        For more info link to http://mysticbourgeoisie.blogspot.com

        Karolyn, you wrote: “I have learned much and grown from what I have been taught by the likes of Neale Donald Walsch, Abraham-Hicks and Wayne Dyer”

        There is something to learn there and grow out of, sure, but most of what such people like that get their information from like discarnate beings or G*d is sheer fraud or at best imagination. Their basic premise is false. They equate spirituality with purchasing information from a mythological source that presents itself as above and beyond.

      • Karolyn says :

        Nameless – Wrong! What these people I spoke of teach is of a Universal Intelligence present in each of us at our core. There is no racism in New Thought. Ever heard of Neville Goddard? He used the Bible in his teachings; however, not in the same translation as traditional Christianity. God is in everything and everyone. Source is within, and we are all one. Everyone is inherently good rather than born in sin. Children forget who they really are via the influence of what is around them. The Law of Attraction is universal law. Those are some of the basic tenets.

      • Circle Maker, of a different variety says :

        Hollywood Tomfortas,

        wow, accusing someone of being paid by a movie maker? Who’s the conspiracy theorist now?

      • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

        Well, you must remember that this is not just any old film maker. This is Foster Gamble, heir to the Procter & Gamble fortune and here is the conspiracy theory about P&G
        http://www.666truth.org/history/666-antichrist-myths/articletype/articleview/articleid/901/pageid/910.aspx

  5. Mason I. Bilderberg says :

    Reblogged this on Illuminutti and commented:
    The blog “Thrive Debunked” always has something worthwhile to say.

  6. JG says :

    I really like the part about how the absence of a regulated credit system would give way to indentured servitude. I never thought of regulated personal credit as an equalizing or democratizing force.

    • Mr. Anon says :

      Regulated personal credit ensures that loans are given out reasonably, and that interest rates are kept under check. If anything, it prevents the “debt slavery” that conspiracy theorists yell about.

  7. Mr. Anon says :

    I’d also like to note that Foster Gamble may not specifically endorse some of the ideas presented in this, such as anti-semitism and racism, but the conspiracy theories that he advocates do point to this stuff. Libertarians like Ron Paul want to eliminate virtually all federal government power, justifying it by claiming “states will handle this”. But what Muertos points out though is that this kind of reasoning will be applied to states as well, until government only exists at local levels, at which point enforcement of laws becomes very difficult and corporate power exceeds any authority governments have.

  8. Jim says :

    Sorry, Muertos and the others commenting here, but you seem to misunderstand Libertarianism and confuse it with Anarchism. Libertarians support the minimum amount of government needed, and prefer as much as possible to move some functions to the state or local level because it improves the response of the government and helps prevent waste.

    • Lee says :

      Jim, I believe that Muertos didn’t misunderstand Libertarianism. What he tried to show with his speculative fiction is that Libertarianism eventually leads to anarchy instead of improving government response and prevent waste IMO.

    • Mr. Anon says :

      The problem with libertarianism is that it favors moving power “down the ranks”. Crime is not to be handled by the federal government, it is to be handled by the states. That seems nice, but states like Mississippi that do not have very much resources will not be able to function very well. Furthermore, libertarians at the state level will prefer moving power down to the local level. At the local level, as Muertos has pointed out, only big cities will be able to function as a government, and will be extremely susceptable to corporate influence. Worse, conspiracy theorists behind this will be suspicious of any power at all in the government, so they will prefer decreasing that as well.

      Laws may still be in place, but there is little power to enforce them. Since corporations would control the currency, and would have little to no oversight, they would essentially create slavery.

    • SlayerX3 says :

      The problem is when the government goes minimum corporations will eventually fill the void, yet the government will be too small to counter the corporation power. Damn even with the relatively small sized (you want to see a big infective government? Just try to live in Brazil or Argentina for a few years) US government is already encroached with corporate influences.

      There is an ongoing issue with privatization vs. state control.

      There are fields like services, production and economy where private companies and corporations are the most effective and preferable option.
      But some like security, social wealth, essential services (Education and health) and regulations are better off (for the people) at the hands of the state.
      At Federal level you can enforce anti-discrimination/harassment laws and be sure every citizen has the same rights regardless of the state, regulate the industry to make sure all standards are met and no state is launching law/tax wars to attract business at the cost of people’s rights or environment.
      And of course, what would you rather have? A state/federal police applying the law or a private/local militia/patrol groups enforcing their own views of the law? (Just imagine you being a black man in Alabama walking in a white majority rural area or a Hispanic in Arizona).

      The problem with giving a state too much power over the federal mandate is some states have some utterly retarded people voting and in politics. I don’t doubt some states specially those in the Bible Belt would have much respect for the rights of anyone who isn’t a while christian male.

  9. maja says :

    wow. Dear Muertos, I have read somewhere on your blog that you personally describe yourself as a “recovering conspiracy theorist.” I’m afraid you have not recovered. You have taken a completely OCD stance on the opposite extreme of the spectrum and now you have a conspiracy theory against the conspiracy theorists. weird. Best of luck to you, I hope you find balance as nothing is ever so extreme one way or the other.

    • Mr. Anon says :

      The difference between Muertos and conspiracy theorists is that Muertos is not claiming there is an intent towards this. He is claiming that misinformation will only enable corporations to seize power. He’s not suggesting that corporations are secretly running conspiracy campaigns; rather he is saying that conspiracy theorists inadvertently acting against their own interests.

  10. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    THIRD MAJOR PHASE OF THRIVE MOVEMENT IS NOW LAUNCHED!!!!

    http://www.thrivemovement.com/foster-gamble-announces-new-thrive-solutions-hub.blog

    Foster Gamble announces THRIVE Solutions Hub and Toolkit with 12-Sector Model!
    —————————-

    Muertos, you can still repent and join the THRIVE Team. All will be forgiven.

  11. Antidom says :

    Excellent post!

  12. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Jennifer Lake has compiled quite a massive blog entry about THRIVE where the reader is in danger of drowning in all the quotes from the movie, but it’s worth the marathon paddling in her pool, especially when she adds more stuff of her own in the comments.

    http://jenniferlake.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/thrive-or-threat/

    I quote a few snippets from her page:

    ————————————–

    This is a “notebook” post on content and background of the film THRIVE, released on 11-11-11 to the internet.

    Throughout the long introduction to Thrive, Gamble uses Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP) techniques called lost performatives and presuppositions:

    “Lost performatives are when someone is talking about a personal belief, but presents it as though it was a universal truth. We then accept it as true without questioning it as we would if we heard it as someone’s personal opinion.”

    “A presupposition is an innocent sounding statement that can only be understood if certain facts or ideas are accepted as being true.”

    THRIVE, in fact, is loaded with hypnotic speech patterns:

    Cause and Effect patterns, embedded commands, presuppositions, syntactic ambiguity and lost performatives.

    Enter the ETs. The first 45 minutes of THRIVE are actually devoted to ‘proving’ the existence of extraterrestrials.

    If Santa Cruzians want to battle over what to make of Thrive, right there on the Gambles’ home turf, the rest of us might step aside and take a lesson. There’s not a New Age enclave in America that isn’t feeling some pain by now. A Progressive commentator at Praxis writes, “So we and many others (including some interviewed in this film) are wondering out loud, What the bleep is actually going on?”

    I’ll toss in the pitch for MIND CONTROL on the grounds that no legitimate political party seeking public endorsement would commit something to print as contemptible as the last sentence on the THRIVE Environment Solution: “Labeling of food- such as GMO’s proposed in Stage 2 (limiting government) – would no longer be mandatory or enforced by government. Rather, people would be forced to compete… In fact, GMO’s would likely be obsolete because their vendors would be continually sued for violating others and would become unable to purchase insurance…”

    Nobody at Praxis seems to have noticed that some of the Thrive Solutions website pages are void of content (i.e. Science, Spirituality) so this veil gets pretty thin exposing THRIVE as a strawman for progressivism (gradualism) in the Dialectic.

    Crop circles, UFOs, and alien abductions, as subjects with a long and murky past in hardcore mind control, suggests going soft doesn’t change anything –it’s still hardcore. So what are the makers of Thrive trying to prove? Is this a “mass-action social experiment”?

    • JG says :

      I really did almost drown in that.

    • JG says :

      I got one for you. Maybe I’m late in the game on this one, but you can get a Diploma in Thriving from a seemingly accredited university: http://www.gaiauniversity.org/diploma-thriving

      • anticultist says :

        gaia university is hardly a credible institution with respectable scholars and academic tutors. Hell even the name is new age bunk

    • Fancy Feet says :

      “Is this a mass-action social experiment?”

      It appears to be.

    • Zovos says :

      “Lost performatives are when someone is talking about a personal belief, but presents it as though it was a universal truth. We then accept it as true without questioning it as we would if we heard it as someone’s personal opinion.”

      This is exactly how the bloggers on this site portray their information; with the additional use of slandering buzzwords.

      • Wyboth says :

        That’s a quote from Gamble, not from this site.

      • Wyboth says :

        Wait, nevermind, no it isn’t. But how is that what we’re doing?

        1. We don’t assert personal beliefs.

        2. We would never portray something as universal truth nor accept it as such unless it is proven to be so with the Scientific Method.

        Maybe you should read the articles and see what they’re actually there to do. They address statements made in Thrive and prove or refute them based on evidence. What you’re accusing us of isn’t even close.

  13. VA veterans says :

    We all do want a better world. But it takes more than what we think to make our world better. I enjoy looking through an article that can make men and women think. Also, thanks for permitting me to comment!

  14. Karolyn says :

    Wow! Some of this is appropos; however, I believe that Christians would have more of a place. Most conspiracy theorists/libertarians I’ve known have been Christains. Instead of there being no churches, people would be forced to go to church. Also, there really is no need for doctors, since people have been educated in how to take care of their bodies.

    • Joel T. says :

      Doctors would still be necessary because 1) New diseases arise, which the body’s own immune system is unfamiliar with and thus fundamentally incapable of fighting off, 2) People develop immunities over a lifetime, thus sickness if a necessity at an early age, 3) People’s immune systems decrease with age (as well as with decreasing hormone levels, particularly estrogen), 4) Strong genetic factors can outweigh all environmental influences (it’s possible to have a monogenic deletion that causes you’re body to not produce leptin, for example), and 5) Accidents happen even to the most careful of individuals.

      • Karolyn says :

        I believe that “As ye think, so shall ye be.” Everything that happens to us is something that we attract. We are responsible for everything in our lives, whether it has to do with health, wealth, or whatever.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        That is a libertarian view, Karolyn, one that has never worked (look at countries like Sudan that have similar worldviews).

  15. bensteigmann says :

    Advocates of that position assume that you have to have a “libertarian” alternative to a “collectivist” agenda. The problem is, both libertarianism and collectivism are funded by the same people. As shown by Reece Committee Investigations, most Collectivist/Internationalist orgs were funded by the Carnegie Endowment, Ford Foundation, and the Rockefeller Foundation: http://archive.org/details/TheTax-exemptFoundations-Excerpts

    As for the libertarian paradigm, the following quote from a review of the latest Mises Institute biography of their hero will suffice:

    “Many readers may be surprised to learn the extent to which the Graduate Institute and then Mises himself in the years immediately after he came to United States were kept afloat financially through generous grants from the Rockefeller Foundation. In fact, for the first years of Mises’s life in the United States, before his appointment as a visiting professor in the Graduate School of Business Administration at New York University (NYU) in 1945, he was almost totally dependent on annual research grants from the Rockefeller Foundation.”: http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=692

    The following, on manipulations of discourse within a controlled dialectic, will provide insight: http://wwws.forummotion.com/t66-dialectics-vectors-vector-leaders

    On the seeming contradiction of the top capitalists working in cahoots with the top communists, we luckily have an answer. In the late 1940s, minutes of the NKVD interrogation of Christian Rakovsky and associated materials were found in the house of the individual who transcribed them, for the convenience the party elite, but who also made copies from himself. They were published in Spain as Sinfonia en rojo Mayor and later translated by George Knuppfer as “Red Symphony”. They confirm the Illuminist origins of the World Revolution, that Marx was creating a false liberation ideology and the role of the Rothschilds as the “hidden hand” in all of this, the fact that Jewish Bankers associated with the House of Rothschild and Kuhn, Loeb, & Co. funded the Trotskyist-Leninist Bolshevik state and then, when Stalin arose, funded Hitler as a dialectical antithesis (though he eventually bit the hand that fed him), ultimately desiring to dominate a World System that would be a synthesis of Capitalism and Communism. The document can be read here: http://americandeception.com/index.php?action=downloadpdf&photo=PDFsml_AD/Red_Symphony-Landowsky-1968-30pgs-POL.sml.pdf&id=340

    Mikhail Bakunin confirmed one of Rakovsky’s statements, noting that Marx was creating a false liberation ideology at the behest of the Rothschild dynasty: http://www.connexions.org/RedMenace/Docs/RM4-BakuninonMarxRothschild.htm

    Incidentally, on p. 272 of “The Jews: ancient, mediæval and modern”, James Kendall Hosmer, former Librarian Emeritus of the Minneapolis Public Library, noted, when discussing the 1848 revolution [this one was in Germany, there were revolutions all over Europe at that time], that “the house of Rothschild … floated buoyant on the waves of the stormy upheaval, saw the Prussians enter with little regret, and was even spared by the Commune, when all else was subject to destruction or pillage”: http://tinyurl.com/3qwlkjy

    The December 12, 1918, United States Naval Secret Service Report on Paul Warburg stated the following:

    “WARBURG, PAUL: New York City. German, naturalized citizen, 1911. was decorated by the Kaiser in 1912, was vice chairman of the Federal Reserve Board. Handled large sums furnished by Germany for Lenin and Trotsky. Has a brother who is leader of the espionage system of Germany.”: http://tinyurl.com/bpuewge

    The Jewish Communal Register of New York City, 1917-1918, Second Edition, Kehillah, New York, (1919), p. 1019, noted that

    “Mr. Schiff has always used his wealth and his influence in the best interests of his people. He financed the enemies of autocratic Russia and used his financial influence to keep Russia from the money market of the United States.”: http://tinyurl.com/3nvlyat

    In the beginning of his documentary giving an alternative view on Bolshevism, Juri Lina produces a document from Jacob Schiff inviting Trotsky to New York prior to the Bolshevik takeover (@5:45): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4__jeW7D-o

    Henry Wickham Steed was one of the most distinguished journalists of the twentieth century, was foreign correspondent of the London Times at Rome (1897-1902), Vienna (1902-1913), foreign editor of the Times (1914-1919), and editor (1919-1922). Among his many books, he wrote and published “Through Thirty Years” in 1924. On p. 302 of Volume Two of that book, he said:

    “That day Colonel House asked me to call upon him. I found him worried both by my criticism of any recognition of the Bolshevists and by the certainty, which he had not previously realized, that if the President were to recognize the Bolshevists in return for commercial concessions his whole `idealism’ would be hopelessly compromised as commercialism in disguise … I insisted that, unknown to him, the prime movers were Jacob Schiff, Warburg, and other international financiers, who wished above all to bolster up the Jewish Bolshevists in order to secure a field for German and Jewish exploitation of Russia.”: http://tinyurl.com/3voj6sv

    The Hoover Institution scholar, Antony Sutton, who specialized in the role of Western Technological and financial transfers in building up the Soviet State, while denying the Jewish role in the Bolshevik revolution in other works, still noted that the role of Schiff’s firm of Kuhn, Loeb, & Co. in supporting the Bolsheviks continued beyond the revolution in his Hoover Institution study on Western aid to the Soviets, writing “there is a report in the State Department files that names Kuhn, Loeb & Co. (the long established and important financial house in New York) as the financier of the First Five Year Plan. See U. S. State Dept. Decimal File, 811.51/3711 and 861.50 FIVE YEAR PLAN/236.” (Sutton, Antony. Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development, Vol. II. Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace, Stanford University, 1973. p. 340n).

    In the book “Geneva versus Peace” (Sheed & Ward, New York, 1937), Comte de Saint-Aulaire, French Ambassador to Great Britain in the 1920s, discussed his meetings with Kuhn, Loeb, & Co. financiers. They had discussions regarding why they [the Kuhn, Loeb, & Co. bankers] financed the Bolshevik Revolution. One of them said (p. 80):

    “You say that Marxism is the very antithesis of capitalism, which is equally sacred to us. It is precisely for this reason that they are direct opposites to one another, that they put into our hands the two poles of this planet and allow us to be its axis. These two contraries, like Bolshevism and ourselves, find their identity in the International. These opposites, which are at the antipodes to one another in society and in their doctrines meet again in the identity of their purpose and end, the remaking of the world from above by the control of riches, and from below by revolution.”; and: “Our mission consists in promulgating the new law and in creating a God, that is to say in purifying the idea of God and realizing it, when the time shall come. We shall purify the idea by identifying it with the nation of Israel, which has become its own Messiah. the advent of it will be facilitated by the final triumph of Israel, which has become it’s own Messiah.”

    This same financier also said (pp. 83-84):

    “… our essential dynamism makes use of the forces of destruction and forces of creation, but uses the first to nourish the second. … Our organization for revolution is evidenced by destructive Bolshevism and for construction by by the League of Nations which is also our work. Bolshevism is the accelerator and the League is the brake on the mechanism of which we supply both the motive force and the guiding power. What is the end? It is already determined by our mission. It is formed of elements scattered throughout the whole world, but cast in the flame of our faith in ourselves. We are a League of Nations which contains the elements of all others. …Israel is the microcosm and the germ of the City of the future.”

    Relevant excerpts from this remarkable document are here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/87400800/Geneva-Versus-Peace

    People like Henry George, who attempted to reconcile capitalism and socialism, and the Social Credit movement seem to have actual solutions to these things: http://libertyrevival.wordpress.com/

    BTW, on the subject of vaccines, information on their lethality comes from the medical journals themselves: http://archive.org/details/HorrorOfVaccinationExposed

    • muertos says :

      More copy n’ paste wall-o-text from Ben! Did you actually read it this time, or are you just spamming wholesale as is your usual M.O.?

      I would think that of all people you, Ben, as a deeply committed conspiracy theorist, would be one of the few to actively welcome the sort of world I described in this article.

      • bensteigmann says :

        How would I be able to create facsimiles if I didn’t read the texts. Again, it is comfortable to imagine that I am just downloading inaccurate information from extremists. Actually though, I am quoting people in positions of influence. Of course some of this is cut and paste, it is a compilation of some things I have written elsewhere.

  16. Mr. Anon says :

    Today is July 14th, or in France, Bastille Day. Today celebrates the storming of the Bastille in 1789, the beginning of the popular phase of the French Revolution. While celebrated even today as symbolic of free expression, it should be noted that the day resulted in many deaths. The storming itself, though actually lit off by the firing of Necker, was fueled in the weeks prior by conspiracy theories regarding the monarchy and the elite. Conspiracy theories fueled much of the revolution, and caused many unneeded casualties.

  17. Mr. Anon says :

    Muertos, have you heard of the book Sacred Economics by Charles Eisenstein? I’m putting this here since he seems to advocate something similar to Zeitgeist’s “resource based economy”, although he does not pander to conspiracy theories.

  18. ZeroFrequence says :

    A brilliant idea for dystopian sci-fi movie. Donate (each of you) 25$ and I’ll make it.

  19. panthervariable says :

    Something in this reminded me of some other conspiracies I’ve read about recently, by the way: Freemen on the Land and Sovereign Citizens.

  20. Fancy Feet says :

    This should be made into a movie!

  21. Jay says :

    I think this is a shocking mis representation of what real people are trying to do. I read a couple of articles on this blog and its obvius the maker of this blog is just trying to defend capitolism. The Zeitgeist Movement doesn’t stand for the things this blog says. It is not about “conspiracy theories” but its about applicating a systems approach to society. We do want to build a test city but it will demonstrate why the RBE systems approach works and what it can do to help people. I don’t understand why you think trying to help people is wrong. Its like you’re labeling everything you don’t like a “conspiracy theroy”. I think you need to see Zeitgeist again and pay attention this time because you obviusly didn’t get it the first time. If you have ever seen it at all. Which I think maybe you haven’t. Please educate yourself. We are just trying to make a better world.

    • anticultist says :

      You are just caught up in an online cult mate, period.

      The sooner you give your head a shake and realise you are the better.

      • Jay says :

        An “online cult”? Lol. The Zeitgeist Movement is not a “cult”. But I do know that the government is so afraid of them that they pay trolls to trash it. It is because we are going to do away with the money system and institute RBE. The government does not want the test city to be built and they do not want the truth to come out about who really run society. I do not know why you don’t understand in helping people out of money slavery, the only reason I can think of that you don’t want that is maybe you benefit too much from the money system and are afraid of the Movement?

      • anticultist says :

        Nah I see you as a foolish and gullible person for allowing yourself to believe something as ridiculous as the zeitgeist movement, that’s the straight honest answer.

      • a rational person says :

        zeitgest movement? jesus christ, the nutbags are breeding aren’t they…

        i met one of those fuckers from the zeitgest movement once…stupidest fucker i ever came across…at least til i came to this site…babbling bout 911 inside job, robots, micro chips, all sorts of bullshit…the stupid made my head hurt.

        we should start holding nutbag races…see which one of em goes to the insane asylum first.

      • anticultist says :

        Yeah you have to pity them in all fairness, they are unable to evaluate their own mental conditions. They are entrenched in belief and unable to honestly assess their claims without the filter of stupidity.

        There are so many fuck wits on the internet eager to fall into the same insane belief systems as them too. This is because as human beings they need to explain complicated subjects with easy answers, black and white thinking is a much more simplistic state of mind for them.

        Us vs Them, where everyone who doesn’t agree with their stupid beliefs is evil or on the other team, it’s fucking childish and unrealistic. They create false dichotomies, then elevate themselves and their cause to the highest social standing, and put you in the lowest common denominator position.

        In actuality, there are multiple possibilities and conspiracy theorists are members of the socially unwell of our society. The asylum is indeed a stop for these people if they go at this belief hardcore.

      • Jay says :

        From your comments I see that you people are definitely paid disinformation agents. There is no person in the world who could believe 9/11 was not an inside job or that TZM is some sort of “cult” w/o being paid. I don’t understand how you people can live with yourselves. What amount of money in the world can make you turn against your own people?

      • anticultist says :

        You are all just internet retards, seriously none of you planks are my own people, I wouldn’t associate with a single one of you. The crazy beliefs you all hold are enough to keep sane people at a safe distance.

  22. autistickyuubi says :

    If America was the only country affected, this conspiracy theorist “paradise” would not last long. because 1=foreign intervention would quickly restore the current system and closely monitor it to see that it stays, 2=there would be large amounts of people who don’t believe in the conspiracy theories, so they would leave for other countries such as canada, mexico and europe. 3=they are not powerful enough to overthrow the government. but quite accurate though.

  23. kaiwenwordpress says :

    10/10 Bravo Sir!
    This is one of the most entertaining things Ive ever read!
    You MUST write a dystopian novel based on this! It would rival the likes of 1984 and Brave New World. As bonus it makes for excellent trolling material for Libertarians.

  24. The Phoenix says :

    You are insane! You “information” and skewed assumptions are sickeningly inaccurate. I suggest you do some real research and get the REAL facts straight before spewing hateful lies like this long-winded drivel! You are obviously relating mere opinions as fact (which they are not) and don’t know, or have ever held a lengthy discussion with anyone who agrees with Thrive, TZM or TVP. It’s people like you, who obviously only pretend to be knowledgeable (in areas which you so obviously have none to speak of), and spread lie after lie based on biased fear and hate. I hope you are forced to see just how wrong you are some day.

    • a rational person says :

      u are obviously a nutbag who worships peter joseph and foster gamble. u probably think 911 was an inside job and believe in lizard people. usual conspiratard bullshit. i bet you believe in zeitgest. I BET YOU DO!!!!!!! YOU DO, YOU BELIEVE ZEITGEST IS ACTUAL TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jeezus…what a stupid fucker. nobody in their right mind could actually believe in zeitgest or thrive. its all a bunch of shit. these people shouldn;t breed.

      • Karolyn says :

        Wow! That tirade sure didn’t sound rational. Do you have irrefutable proof that Zeitgeist and Thrive are fake? That no conspiracies exist? I think not. NOBODY know anything for sure!

      • a rational person says :

        yes, i have irrefutable proof that thrive and zeitgest are fake. for thrive, take a look at this blog and all the debunking done. the movie is torn to shreds. for zeitgeist, just do a google search for “zeitgest debunked” and you;ll find a whole bunch of debunkings. its been torn to shreds too.

        these movies are total feces.

      • Karolyn says :

        Having not watched the movies in some time, I can’t speak to specifics I can understand some of the material not being true; however, I don’t think it’s a good idea to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Valid points are made that people should be aware of rather than sticking their heads in the sand. I am by no stretch of the imagination a conspiracy theorist, but I do question standard acceoted “facts” or information.

      • Wyboth says :

        “Do you have irrefutable proof that Zeitgeist and Thrive are fake? That no conspiracies exist?”

        We are not the ones who must come up with the proof; the burden of proof is on Thrive and Zeitgeist, and they have not proven themselves. Many of the claims they make can’t be easily disproven, so unless they have convincing evidence behind them, there’s no reason to believe them.

        “Nobody knows anything for sure.”

        Now that deserves a spot in the dumbest quotes hall of fame.

      • Karolyn says :

        Wyboth – I wish I were the kind of person who knows everything, like you appear to be. Must be nice. And there really is no need for personal attacks. if that is the way you try to get your point across, good luck with trying to sway anyone to your side.

      • Wyboth says :

        I don’t know everything, nor do I pretend to. And I wasn’t attacking you personally, I was saying that your comment was stupid. This would be a personal attack:

        Person X: I believe a.

        Person Y: You’re stupid.

        But I did this:

        Person X: I believe a.

        Person Y: A is stupid.

      • a rational person says :

        thrive is stupid.
        zeitgest is stupid.
        conspiracy theories are stupid.

        i bet karolyn believes 911 was an inside job.

        amirite??????

      • anticultist says :

        ” I don’t think it’s a good idea to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Valid points are made that people should be aware of rather than sticking their heads in the sand.”

        Ah the old trope of not debunking something in it’s entirety because there was one thing said out of the hundreds that was of a sane standard.

        Listen Karolyn, the whole throwing the baby out with the bath water shit is just an excuse used to allow movies like thrive and zeitgeist to go unchecked and onto further levels of stupid.

        Anyone who has watched zeitgeist or thrive is well aware that anything in it that is good is usually an iteration of points said elsewhere by liberals and greenies who themselves are trying to save the planet from pollution, deforestation, and species culls. I happen to agree with a lot of then things these people believe in, although as soon as they go full retard and start blaming conspiracy theories they might as well have just committed social suicide.

        The baby is not in the bathwater with thrive or zeitgeist, the bath water is too dirty to even put a baby in it. The baby was washed and cleaned in bath water other people ran.

      • Wyboth says :

        Hey, Rational, I heard that you like laughing at conspiratards. I think you’ll really like this website. It basically makes fun of dumb conspiracy theorists, and shows some really stupid ones. Give it a try.

      • a rational person says :

        hahaha, i hate reddit but i did look at that…what a bunch o fuckkin retards.

  25. Nebuchadnezzar says :

    Seems to me that unrestrained capitalism eventually leads to slavery and chaos… seems to me that heavy handed socialism eventually leads to slavery and chaos… seems to me like computer based tecnocracy eventually leads to slavery and chaos… seems to me that man left to his own devices travels by many roads to the same destination…

    • Anastasio says :

      It seems to me that you have the anaphora thing down but do not yet understand the meaning of ‘contradiction in terms’. Slavery and chaos are at odds with each other by simple definition.

      Also, I highly doubt you have the authority to advise on where technocracy leads, given it has yet to be implemented into any social system on a significant scale.

      Thanks for sharing how wonderfully pessimistic and paranoid you are though, for what ever it good it did you.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 133 other followers

%d bloggers like this: