Thrive Is Free: New Fans, New Approach, and a Fresh Welcome to This Blog.

The big news in Thrive-land this week is that the movie is now free. Originally released on the Internet on November 11 of last year—a date that supposedly has some kind of cosmological significance in New Age circles—the film was initially available only as a download for $5, although it was ripped to various torrent sites and even YouTube within hours after its release. Now it seems that Foster Gamble and Clear Compass Media don’t care if you pay for the movie anymore. You can now download the film from the Thrive website for free. We can speculate as to the motives for taking this new approach to the movie, but up until now there certainly have been those—even people highly complimentary of the film—who criticized the fact that you had to pay to see it. This move is likely to silence those critics.

Yesterday, coinciding with the release of Thrive free, I noted a sudden and dramatic upswell in page views here on the Thrive Debunked blog, which is now more popular than it ever was. Each of the last two days has been a record-breaker for page views. As people discover the film, in many cases they discover the debunking at the same time. One of the most common ways people come to this blog is by clicking from various forums, some conspiracy-related, others not, where a link has been posted. In almost all cases the paradigm is the same. A user on a forum will make a topic to the effect of, “Hey, have you seen this movie Thrive?” Usually the user posting the topic will be complimentary toward the film. Within a few replies someone will take a different view of the movie, and they’ll very often provide a link to this blog. I’ve seen forums from Germany, Romania, Italy, Poland, Hungary, Australia and Israel where this blog has been mentioned and discussed. This tells me that Thrive Debunked is doing exactly what I hoped it would do: it’s serving as a powerful counterpoint to make people think about the issues before blindly accepting the spurious claims in Thrive as gospel truth.

Because we now suddenly have many more readers thanks to the free release of the film, I thought I would provide a fresh welcome to those who are discovering Thrive Debunked for the first time. This blog has now been around for about five months. There’s a lot of material here and a lot of discussion especially in the comments. Here, therefore, is a quick guide to what parts of the film have been debunked, what remains to be done, and where you might be able to find answers to some of the most common questions about the movie and its claims.

Comprehensive Debunkings

Full Debunking of Thrive, Part I. This article, by our contributor SlayerX3, is the first of three to try to go through Thrive very quickly, tackling many of its claims in sequence. Not every claim in the first third of the film is dealt with here, but you’ll find comments on the film’s intro, the “torus” shape with which Foster Gamble is so entranced, the “Flower of Life” claims (which are dealt with in much greater detail in other articles), the supposed 64 energy units, Steven Greer and his UFO claims, more UFO material from Edgar Dean Mitchell, Clifford Stone, Harry Allen Jordan, Dwynne Anderson and John Callahan; and finishing up with crop circles. All of these subjects are roundly debunked.

Full Debunking of Thrive, Part II. SlayerX3’s second outing, this one at the middle section of the film. Here you’ll find debunkings of the UFO and energy claims of James Gilliland and Daniel Sheehan; the movie’s nonsensical distortions of the work of Nikola Tesla; free energy suppression; Adam Trombly (himself the subject of two additional articles), John Bedini and John Hutchinson, who all claim to have invented “free energy” machines; and Eugene Mallove, who was not killed (as the movie claims) because of his work on cold fusion.

Full Debunking of Thrive, Part III. The third in the full debunking series by SlayerX3 debunks the following: oil and energy empires; Foster Gamble’s misstatements about the Green Revolution; loss of biodiversity and environmental harm; Vandana Shiva; free trade agreements and globalism; a fake quote from Henry Kissinger; NEA and the Rockefellers; John Taylor Gatto; Deepak Chopra; alt-med quackery from R. Royal Raymond Fife, Rene Cassie, and Max Gerson; and the controversial Hoxsey Therapy.

Debunkings of Specific Topics and People

Crop Circles—Debunked! This article demonstrates how and why we can be sure that crop circles are not created by extraterrestrials, are not mysterious or unexplainable, and certainly are not messages from aliens telling us how to turn spinning electric donuts into “free energy” machines. In terms of page views, this is one of the most popular articles on the blog and seems especially offensive to fans of Thrive. It was the response to this article that began to convince me that the target audience of Thrive is the New Age religious crowd. For some reason I do not understand, the notion that crop circles are not extraterrestrial in origin is deeply offensive to many people in the New Age milieu. This article has surpassed the David Icke exposé as the single most controversial piece we’ve ever done on this blog.

Thrive Makers Back Down on “Flower of Life” Claim: This article details an extremely rare event—a factual correction by the Thrive makers. In this case they admitted that the claim, made in the movie by Nassim Haramein, that the “Flower of Life” design at the Osirian Temple in Abydos, Egypt is somehow “burned into the rock at the atomic level,” is in fact false. Nevertheless, despite this retraction, many Thrive fans continue to believe that the “Flower of Life” was put there by aliens and not by crafty Egyptian artisans.

Who Is Nassim Haramein? This article is a profile of Nassim Haramein, the person who makes the “Flower of Life” claim and most of the “ancient astronauts” claims in the film. As this article shows, Mr. Haramein has a history of making pseudoscientific and pseudohistorical claims that are met with extreme skepticism by members of the legitimate scientific community. An example of such a claim is his inventive “Schwarzschild Proton” theory, which postulates that every atom is a mini-black hole, despite the fact that this theory flies in the face of established physics. Yet, according to many Thrive fans in the comments, Mr. Haramein is a scientific visionary right up there with Galileo, Copernicus and Einstein. I’m not ready to book my plane tickets to Oslo for Mr. Haramein’s Nobel Prize acceptance ceremony quite yet.

Ancient Astronauts—Debunked! This article takes apart the ridiculous notion that Egyptians, Mayans and Incas were too stupid, backwards and ignorant to have created great works of ancient engineering, which Thrive claims must have been built by aliens instead. As you’ll see in the article, this idea rests awkwardly on a single untenable assumption that manages to offend historical fact, scientific reality and cultural sensitivity all at the same time. If there’s an old paperback copy of Erich von Däniken’s Chariots of the Gods on your bookshelf, you need to read this article.

Who Is Adam Trombly? This article must be read in conjunction with Exclusive: Allegations About Adam Trombly Present Potential Credibility Crisis for Thrive. The first article, the earliest person profile on the blog, began our descent into the Adam Trombly saga. Adam Trombly claims to have invented a “free energy” machine that will solve all the world’s energy problems. As you’ll see in the second article, another inventor, David Farnsworth, came forward in March 2012 and claimed that the machine shown in the movie and identified as Trombly’s was actually invented by him (Farnsworth), and that it can’t do what Thrive claims it can do. I don’t know what the absolute truth is here. Despite a lengthy back-and-forth between Mr. Farnsworth and Mr. Trombly, as well as additional comments from Mr. Trombly’s daughter and Foster Gamble himself, the two questions I have about the machine—(1) did Adam Trombly really build it? and (2) can it do what Thrive says it can do?—remain unanswered.

Global Domination Agenda—Debunked! This is my personal favorite of all the articles on this blog. In it I debunk the idea that the Illuminati or New World Order, which Foster Gamble calls the “Global Domination Agenda,” actually exists and is trying to control the world. In fact it does not exist, but the article attempts to explain why believers in this bizarre conspiracy theory are not only utterly convinced that it does exist, but why everything they see and hear seems to confirm their belief. Hint: it’s a self-reinforcing delusion that is specifically designed to be impervious to anything in the way of reason or evidence. My one regret about this article is that its length probably scares away most casual readers, but you can’t really describe the issues involved in Illuminati/New World Order conspiracy theories without using a lot of words.

False Flag Attacks—Debunked! This article attacks a small section of the film where Foster Gamble is guilty of serious historical distortions, especially regarding the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident that was a prominent milestone on the U.S. road to involvement in the Vietnam War. In the article I explain why Gulf of Tonkin was not a “false flag” attack, how and why conspiracy theorists get the whole idea of “false flag” attacks totally wrong, and why, contrary to what the film asserts, belief in the bizarre and ridiculous “9/11 was an inside job” theory is in fact declining rather than increasing. Hint: it’s declining because the idea that “9/11 was an inside job” is a bunch of crap, and the vast majority of the American public knows it’s a bunch of crap. Nevertheless, the true believers have chosen to go down with the sinking ship on this one; devotees of conspiracy theories are ferociously resistant to the reality that fewer people believe 9/11 conspiracy theories now than at any time since the disaster itself.

Who Is David Icke? Formerly the most controversial piece on this site–until surpassed by the crop circles article–this article profiles British conspiracy theorist David Icke, who, if Thrive had a conventional cast list, would probably get top billing as the star of the film. Mr. Icke believes that the world is secretly run by an evil race of reptilian shape-shifting aliens. “But wait!” you protest, “he doesn’t say that in Thrive!” This article explains why, and it also explains why Mr. Icke’s reptilian shape-shifting alien theories are especially dangerous and offensive.

Thrive’s Philosophy, Purpose and Broader Context

Should We Give Thrive a Pass on its Facts, And Instead Praise its “Message?” This article answers many of the objections Thrive fans have to why I don’t just go quietly into the sunset. Although the point of the movie seems to be to establish conspiracy theories as a theodicy for New Age belief systems (see the article for an explanation of what that means), it does still purport to be a documentary, and as such it has a duty to present the facts responsibly.

Progressive Think Tank Slams Thrive’s Political Agenda. This article could also go into the feedback/response section, but I put it here because it’s a good exposure of the neo-libertarian, pro-Ron Paul political subtext of the film, which many viewers who don’t follow politics may miss entirely. Much of this article is my critique of a progressive reviewer’s take on the film, and my thoughts on how conspiracy theories, such as those advanced by Thrive, are increasingly becoming intertwined with libertarian political ideology. The progressive reviewer herself chimed in in the comments section, as well as an especially shrill Ron Paul supporter.

A Post at the Sister Blog: Thrive Demonstrates How the Conspiracy World is Changing. This is a portal to an article I posted on my other blog, which is not specifically limited to Thrive, dealing with how the world of conspiracy theories is changing in the wake of the ignominious death of the “9/11 Truth Movement.” The article mentions Thrive as an example of how conspiracy theories are increasingly being deployed either as recruiting tools for particular groups or as marketing angles for ideological, political and even religious belief systems.

Reception and Reaction to the Film

JREF Reviews Thrive! This article, fairly short, showcases a review the film received from a writer for the James Randi Educational Foundation, a group devoted to skepticism and busting woo beliefs. Needless to say, the Randi folks didn’t exactly have Thrive on their best-films-of-2011 list.

Another Negative Review of Thrive Hits the Nail on the Head. This article presents the thoughts of a noted UK environmentalist blogger and activist on Thrive. Predictably, he savaged it, and many of the arguments he made against the film echo criticisms that had already been made on this blog. Be sure to see the comments on this one, where the UK blogger himself chimes in, and gets some heavy flak from outraged Thrive fans.

Thrive—A Flop? This article is somewhat outdated. Thrive seems to have become much more popular recently, but in December there were some indications that it had peaked. Nevertheless, there is still some topical material here, such as the controversy among conspiracy theorists as to whether the film is “disinformation” and especially whether its promotional poster contains “Illuminati symbolism.” It astonishes me that anyone could be so loony as to think that, but conspiracy theorists never cease to amaze me with what they’ll be willing to swallow.

Just for Fun

Poll: Is the Creator of This Blog a “Paid Disinformation Agent?” This article is a specific response to those readers (you know who you are) who insist that no one in their right mind could ever criticize the shining truth of Thrive, and therefore anyone who does so must be an agent provocateur paid by _________ (fill in the blank—the government, the Rockefellers, the oil industry, or whoever you most love to hate). In the poll at the end of the article you get the chance to vote on whether I am really a “paid disinformation agent,” but be careful—I might be logging your IP and telling the Illuminati death squads exactly where to find you!

Debunkings We Have Not Done Yet

This site is not yet complete. There are several topics I’d still like to tackle at some point, but, as I do have a job, a life, loved ones etc., I can’t spend all my time working on this blog (contrary to what some people think). While I can’t guarantee I’ll get to all of these topics, here are some topics I’d like to cover in the future.

  • Claims regarding fractional banking and the Federal Reserve. There is a lot of demand for a debunking of Thrive’s views on this topic, but as anything to do with banking bores me silly, it’s not a topic I relish taking on. However, SlayerX3 is reportedly working on an article along these lines. I think it will be a crucial addition to the site.
  • UFOs. Thrive traffics in so much UFO folklore and apocrypha that it seems incomplete for a site devoted to debunking it to not have an article specifically devoted to UFO claims.
  • Global warming denial. Thrive doesn’t hit it that hard, but I observe from other sources (interviews, etc.) that there are some indications that Foster Gamble is a global warming denier. I don’t know that for sure, but I do know that many conspiracy theorists deny the proven scientific reality of anthropogenic climate change, so it’s relevant enough to be included here. This is a topic I know much about and have written about before on other blogs. As it’s not a huge part of Thrive, it’s a lower priority, but I do hope to get to it.
  • Other claims regarding free energy. This is a very rich topic and I’ve learned a great deal about it in the past five months. Lately with the Trombly-Farnsworth debate we’ve focused a lot on energy claims, so the time is not right to do another article on it quite yet. However, it may be coming in the future.

Conclusion

Contrary to what it may seem like at first glance, I don’t dislike Thrive fans. I want to reach them and get them to expand their thinking. My whole point here is to educate people and get them to ask for evidence before accepting someone’s word for anything. In that spirit, I welcome all the new Thrive viewers who will be attracted to the movie now that it’s free. Read the articles, join the discussion, and understand what this movie is about, why it exists and what it’s telling the world. I already feel that this blog has been phenomenally successful, and I look forward to the discussions to come.

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39 responses to “Thrive Is Free: New Fans, New Approach, and a Fresh Welcome to This Blog.”

  1. Mr. Anon says :

    Doesn’t Gamble clearly claim that he is a skeptic of climate change on his website?

    • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

      Gamble vs. Gore
      Right here:
      http://www.thrivemovement.com/critical_issues#critical_issues/695

      . . . those who point to man-made global warming often have their own conflicts of interest. Global leaders, bankers, and corporations have a lot to gain from man-made global warming being accepted as truth and they plan to capitalize on it. They have funded and framed global warming as “the biggest issue of our times, that could end life as we know it if we don’t do something fast.” As a result, the public accepts substandard solutions, such as the global cap and trade system.

      . . . . Cap and trade is the elite’s response to an oversimplified and self-serving interpretation of global warming and sets the stage for the next market bubble for the bankers to pump up and then dump. This is a typical strategy used by the global elite – they create or capitalize on a “problem”, instill fear in the people to get a certain “reaction”, and then propose a “solution” that will benefit themselves, at our – and our planet’s – expense.

      Cap and trade also seems to be a preliminary step in establishing an international tax system and governing body. The global elite can use cap and trade as a way to get people accustomed to international taxes, while also consolidating and giving themselves more power.

      And since Foster Gamble is on track to become the Libertarian’s Al Gore, then consider his action plan for discussion (or is it discussion plan for action?)

      To confront important information about “climate change” consider the following questions and discuss them with others. It ‘s vital for us to engage in open, honest debate about something so consequential.

      *** If other planets in our solar system are heating up too, then might not the Sun itself be the major cause of global warming?

      *** Why is there no live, televised public debate about global warming? Why do Al Gore and the scientists of the IPCC refuse to engage?

      *** Is there a financial incentive for Al Gore to have people believe his data about global warming?[6]

      *** If CO2 is the cause of global warming, why do Al Gore’s own graphs show that temperature changes in fact lead, rather than follow, the changes in CO2?

      Have temperature fluctuations happened before? Did they happen before humans were using fossil fuels? Why are proponents of a global carbon tax, like the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit, hiding data such as the Medieval Warm period from public discussion?

      Wouldn’t you love to see a mud-wrestling match between Foster Gamble and Al Gore? OK, I understand. How about UFC match in the cage? Nah, I think their level and speed would be . . . . Lucha Libre?

      • Mr. Anon says :

        Thanks Tom. Gamble’s views neatly fit in with that of Ron Paul.
        Muertos, while I get just as bored as you do when debating about banking stuff, these issues like the Federal Reserve and global warming have the potential to make people end up voting for an extremist like Paul, and I think it is important that you clear up some myths. Again, I don’t know much about banking, but RationalWiki has cleared up some myths about fractional-reserve banking (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking) and you might want to use that for your debunking.

        If I’m free (though I probably won’t be), I’d love to help you fill out the remaining parts of your blog.

      • muertos says :

        Thanks. I agree that the banking stuff needs to be addressed on this blog, especially because it does motivate people to vote for dangerous wingnuts like Ron Paul (who themselves support conspiracy theories–Paul was recently outed as a 9/11 Truther). I’ve got someone working on a banking article but thanks for the offer to help.

  2. Mr. Anon says :

    There’s also an core of Gamble’s movie that I think needs to be dealt with directly: claims about the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, and Morgans. There three families are always at the center of conspiracy theories, and (supposedly) can be linked to everything bad in the world.

  3. Mr. Anon says :

    OK, looking into the actions of Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), there is no way his family is directly linked to the war actions of Bush. He was one of the most ouspoken critics of the Iraq War and even ordered an investigation of the activities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Rockefeller#Iraq_War). Of course, conspiracy people will claim this is part of a very elaborate plot, but it still sheds evidence to the contrary.

  4. Pickles says :

    Have any of you guys read David Wilcock’s section “Financial Tyranny” which goes into some considerable detail about the financial conspiracy, and offers lots of “evidence”.

    http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1023-financial-tyranny

  5. Roman says :

    Hello muertos, tom, Hello users,

    muertos, you once “debunked” the global domination agenda, the most important part of the movie, beside the FED’s part, which you consequently and eloquently deny to associate with the “elite” or even to address.

    Please have a look at this recent (unfortunately German) piece of allegedly investigative journalism and share one more time your debunking-skills with us:

    Personally I was not convinced by your GDA debunking. You argued with the lack of evidence “for all the bad(!) consequences CTs allege the Bilderberger with”. I argue with the lack of evidence “for all the good(!) things, we should have seen”, like global social stability and everyone’s freedom of speech and persuit of evolvement and eudaemonia (this hopefully goes ahead with the swarm intelligence), but yet we live in a world infested with the Dollar/Capitalism/Debt/Greed-Virus spreading collapses, fear and war. An economic and psychological warfare with the money-/banking-/industry-system directly effecting on our lifes, existences and the planet.

    (great opportunity to learn some German, but it’s an 15min animation film, so let the pictures do the work :))
    Max von Bock – Wie funktioniert Geld (How does money work)
    oder: 10 Punkte Plan zu effizienten Ausbeutung eines Planeten mit halbintelligenten Lebensformen
    or: 10steps for an efficient exploitation of a planet with half-intelligent life forms

    Let’s finally hear your thoughts about the FED’s perverse system. And the Bilderberger’s.. damnit, IWF’s brand new ESM-bank(ing-system) opening up in Europe by mid July 2012. But let me spoiler it: They’re doing it again, the whole fucked up “more and more”-debt-bullshit with interest and fractional reserve banking”.

    http://www.efsf.europa.eu/attachments/esm_treaty_en.pdf

    Just two highlights:
    “The Board of Governors shall decide an appropriate course of action for ensuring that the ESM Member concerned settles its debt to the ESM within a reasonable period of time.”
    – HOW will we ever be able to address our debts with this system?!

    “The ESM shall have full legal personality; it shall have full legal capacity to: acquire and dispose of movable and immovable property;
    contract;
    be a party to legal proceedings; and
    enter into a headquarter agreement and/or protocols as necessary for ensuring that its legal status and its privileges and immunities are recognised and enforced.”
    BUT
    “The ESM, its property, funding and assets, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall enjoy immunity from every form of judicial process”
    PLUS
    “The property, funding and assets of the ESM shall, wherever located and by whomsoever held, be immune from search, requisition, confiscation, expropriation or any other form of seizure, taking or foreclosure by executive, judicial, administrative or legislative action.”
    PLUS
    “In the interest of the ESM, the Chairperson of the Board of Governors, Governors, alternate Governors, Directors, alternate Directors, as well as the Managing Director and other staff members shall be immune from legal proceedings with respect to acts performed by them in their official capacity and shall enjoy inviolability in respect of their official papers and documents.”

    And it goes on and on and on. Aren’t you.. concerned about where this leads to?

  6. Roman says :

    Edit: sry, overlooked your agreement to address the FED-part. Lookin’ forward to it🙂

  7. Anastasio says :

    I’m not sure if this has been posted before but what the hell..

    http://www.santacruz.com/news/2012/04/10/author_john_robbins_other_progressives_denounce_thrive

    Perhaps this warrants a section of its own if there is any substance to it?

    • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

      Excellent find, Anastasio! I just made the first comment which links to the blog here. Also, I am getting on the hot line to Foster with more than a little self-righteousness and schadenfreude.

      Also, Santa Cruz is where Foster lives, so we can quote from the Gospel of Luke, Chapter 4, verses 23 and 24 (NIV translation)

      Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself! Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.”

      “I tell you the truth,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown.”

    • muertos says :

      This is absolutely huge. It also represents (finally) a public statement of what I’ve been hearing privately for months–that some of the people interviewed in Thrive are horrified at the finished product, and that Foster Gamble misrepresented the film to them.

      You can bet that there will be an article on this coming up in the next few days. Thanks so much for posting this!

  8. andy mather says :

    I am curious on your perspective on JFK? I too don’ t believe in the 911 inside job. Iraq does bother me. Wasnt a British Prime Minister brought before a committee too basically admit that the British Intelligence knew there were no weapons of mass destruction prior to the invasion?

    • muertos says :

      The evidence in the JFK case indicates that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. That’s exceptionally difficult for people to understand, and I didn’t believe it myself at first, but when I delved into the evidence and tried to understand it on its own terms there was simply no other conclusion available. Vincent Buglioisi’s book “Reclaiming History” is far and away the best book on the JFK case and it’s comprehensive. The case that Oswald acted alone is absolutely conclusive, as shocking and counter-intuitive as that must sound to most people.

      It seems equally clear to me that both the United States and British governments knew, in advance of the 2003 invasion, that Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction. I believe George W. Bush actively lied during the run-up to war in 2002/03. However, this conclusion does not make it any more likely that other plots alleged by conspiracy theorists–such as “9/11 inside job” or other nonsense–are true. That’s a point most conspiracy nuts don’t understand, but it’s hopeless to explain it to them, because in their simplistic and reductive world of stark black and white, good and evil, all bad acts are of equal magnitude, and lying about shaky intelligence is no different than actively committing the murder of 3,000 innocent Americans. In most cases you simply can’t get through to conspiracy theorists on this level. They’re not ready to accept that the world has such complexity in it. A cartoonish, comic-book world of good guys and bad guys is all they can handle. Unfortunately many of them never get past that simplistic stage of thinking.

      • andy says :

        I have read the warren report and I have to admit reading this one Government backed commission I too would say the JFK was case closed. I went on to read “The Search For Lee Harvey Oswald by Robert J. Groden. The 6.5mm or Carcano 91/38 model was purchased by mail order in Oswald’s name. There exists several photos of Oswald holding this gun in front of his home. The claim in the Groden book is that these photos have been doctored. Poorly by today’s standard but incredible for 1963. They go on to say who would have the technology to create these fake photographs? The claim shows you what is missing in the Gun/Oswald photo’s where is the shadow from the gun? You can clearly see Oswald’s shadow to his right and behind him. The gun however isn’t casting a shadow?
        Further more if you look at the photo of President Kennedy’s head in the Warren report. You will see a nice little hole you could probably squeeze your index finger into. I have seen actual film of the Doctors working on the President in the Dallas hospital and there was a flap of scalp that was hanging off the back of the Presidents head. The Doctor lifted this flap and exposed a hole big enough to fit your fist in. Bullets go in small and come and exit large. That is a none arguable fact. The President died instantly in that back seat. Recently the man responsible for the protection of the first lady has a new book that stats Mrs. Kennedy was trying to retrieve something that was blown out of her husbands skull. This first man on the scene said there was skull fragments and brain matter all over the rear of the car and Mrs. Kennedy was trying to retrieve it. I don’t buy it, Mrs. Kennedy was in full flea mode. I don’t blame or fault her one bit. But of course there is the magic bullet theory. If you have ever hunted or shot a living target be man or beast. The bullet comes into contact with a hard surface it causes the lead in the bullet to flatten or mushroom. The bullets path can be altered by hitting various other hard objects. The most important fact in the Zapruder film is the vapor trail blowing out of the back of President Kennedy’s head. The fatal bullet came from the front of the motorcade. The vapor trail follows behind the bullets path. Not unlike the trail of comets.

        Anonymous phone call to police to say where Oswald could be found? The Dallas policemen who was shot to death? The secret security who cleared the parking lot behind the grassy knoll?
        I know I am off topic here but its a conspiracy that bothers me greatly. I don’t accept the Official version. Bobby Kennedy’s live recorded broadcast of his assassination has from expert forensic study 11-13 shots fired. Sirhan Sirhan’s .22 caliber only held eight bullets. Further more the killing bullet came from the rear and Sirhan was directly in front of Bobby Kennedy and to his left. No officers fired their guns in the official report.

        Now lets say this banker rule the world thing is all crap… Why the Bilderberg meetings all over the globe? Why was Abraham Lincoln assassinated? Why is the official report missing any reference to his ridding the United States of the fractional Banking system? Why was Andrew Jackson almost assassinated save for two guns miss firing? Who also managed to rid the USA of fractional banking. Why is fractional banking not main stream knowledge and anyone that mentions it called a tin hatter?

        I really don’t know what to think anymore. If given a problem I try to be rational and most often the simplest solution is always the right solution. So I am sitting at home and I hear President elect Barrack Obama is spending 650 million dollars to win a 2.5 million dollar job(2008 campaign). This is not rational, there has to be more to this equation? Who is supporting this man and who is benefiting by it? I have no idea what spending 650 million dollars feels like. Who among us can comprehend this amount of spending for what amounts basically to advertising?

      • Mr. Anon says :

        I know very little about the JFK assasination – I’ll leave Muertos to address these arguments. However, regarding your other claims…

        “Now lets say this banker rule the world thing is all crap… Why the Bilderberg meetings all over the globe?”
        Muertos addresses this. The Bilderberg fgroup is actually well known. Footage of the meetings has been posted online, and the group itself reports all its members. Outside of David Rockefeller, there aren’t really any names that tick off conspiracy meters (no Rothschilds, Morgans, etc).

        “Why was Abraham Lincoln assassinated? Why is the official report missing any reference to his ridding the United States of the fractional Banking system?”

        Booth’s motives are well known, and they have nothing to do with fractional banking. However, if Lincoln was against fractional banking as you claim, why did he pass the National Banking Act, which established national banks, a key part of fractional reserve banking. You’ll find that Lincoln’s views on banking were essentially the opposite of Jackson’s.

      • andy says :

        These are not my claims these are claims I have been learning through internet history lessons. I know the source has to be weighed. I am going to go back on the Lincoln / Jackson banking system support to find out more.

        Maybe you can address something I also read. No leader in any of the western nations has become a Prime Minister or President without first attending a Bilderberg meeting? Is this claim true?
        Also if your claim, that the rich are not controlling the so called free nations of the world why is it that the western nations are now all passing similar laws? Why did I read four years ago that the powers that be wanted to raise retirement age to 67? This increase just passed in the House of Commons. I also read Greece was being singled out for passing an age 55 retirement. France was about to pass a similar retirement age.

        I am also reading a bunch on Obama who is pretty much assured a second term. The claims I am hearing are watch for Gun Control a direct attack on the American Constitution.

        The USA senate passed a law that prohibits a person to claim bankruptcy on credit card debt. This law failed to pass in Canada. I am not sure if it passed in the UK or France but I would bet that this law was addressed in their legislative assembly.

      • andy says :

        I went to bed with the thought of the Bilderberg group not having the names of any Rothschilds on their roster. Then I remember the part in Thrive that has a part on it about chain of command. Those servants of the pyramid are only told on a need to know basis. Lets face it the Rothschilds have managed to keep fractional banking system a fairly unknown commodity. I literally learned of this system three months ago and everyone and anyone I talk to have no idea that the bank of Canada has nothing to do with the Government of Canada. They are private like all banks the world over. The last publication in any public forum about this system was in 1934 in a Vancouver newspaper.

        You have that pyramid in Thrive….. where the bank teller is serving the customer at the counter and the branch manager waits for instructions from the head office all the way up to the CEO….Why risk further scrutiny by adding your name to a list. Why not have your worker bees risk the condemnation? Probable deniability? The list of attendees for the 2011 meeting don’t include any of the Rothschilds names on it. But how many of these attendee’s work for the Rothschild family? Furthermore do you deny the claim that the Rothschild family has never attended a Bilderberg meeting? One last thing do you deny the Rothschild family were not one of the original masterminds behind the creation of the Bilderberg Group in 1954?

        thank you for your answers!
        andy mather

      • muertos says :

        All of your questions proceed from the assumption that the Rothschilds are hiding something or that their involvement with the Bilderberg Group, whatever it is (or is not), is somehow suspicious. That assumption makes no sense unless you already buy into the conspiracy ideology on some level. Since there is no evidentiary basis for believing that either the Rothschilds or the Bilderberg Group are especially suspicious for any reason, I think the answers to your questions are largely irrelevant. Whatever those answers are do not make it any more likely that the conspiracy nonsense that people spin about these groups is any closer to being true. Honestly I care very little about either the Rothschilds or the Bilderberg Group. Conspiracy theorists are obsessed with them for entirely illusory reasons.

      • andy says :

        I can not see gravity. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You dismiss any claim against a organized intelligence working in the back ground of our Governments. Yet you fail to answer why are Governments all over the so called free world, continuing to pass similar laws? To me this is proof someone of something has an agenda and is working simultaneously within all Government the world over. Do you suggest there are also no such thing as lobbyists? Does the public really understand what these bought and paid for lobbyists are up too? I think your assumption that mankind is good is naive to the point of ignorance. I am asking for you expert opinion not your condescending dismissal of my argument.

        I have no idea what is going on but I am curious. I know the flu pandemic of 2009 was a larceny against my Government in Canada for a staggering 1.5 billion tax payer dollars. The USA paid out 2.5 billion for the same scam.This didnt stop big pharma or the media from trying the Swine flu pandemic in 2011.

      • muertos says :

        Please show me where, in my articles or my comments, I ever state either that “mankind is good” or that lobbyists don’t exist.

        You seem to be engaging in the same binary and reductive thinking that blinds most conspiracy theorists. In their eyes if you don’t believe in conspiracy theories you must support every action by every government or business interest, everywhere, totally, for all time. The world doesn’t fit into such neat binary categories, I’m afraid. You may want to read the FAQ page and see where I address some of these types of arguments and similar ones.

      • andy says :

        I feel compelled to do something about the world yet feel helpless, small, and insignificant. My family tells me to get on with my life and leave this topic alone. I can’t help but feel doing nothing is tantamount to supporting it.

        There is no doubt this topic has been destroying my happiness. I just hope I am not like the poor Jewish father in 1939 Berlin thinking this too will pass. In less then four years this same father watched his entire family loaded on cattle cars and shipped like animals to slaughter. Don’t tell me there weren’t people in 1939 Germany saying this is going to end badly for us all! I wonder if they were ridiculed for speaking out against the system? I remember in the movie “Schlindlers List” there is one part were a Jewish women says they won’t kill us. They need us, were essential workers!

        Watch for Gun Control in Obama’s next term. If it comes the beginning of the end is in play. The rich on this planet have no regard for the poor. Every City the World over is now using closed circuit TV to watch its citizens. Why? What is there to fear? This is a direct violation of our civil liberties. Why is my Government so interested in watching me?

        The line between the haves and have nots is growing. There is going to be a breaking point. I believe the collapse of 2007 was a small bump in the road to what is coming. This economic bump was caused mainly through a couple of small European countries failing to meet loan payments. (Greece Spain Portugal) Now think about the United States of America declaring bankruptcy and the World wide repercussions.

        If you or I are spending more then we are making we have two choices.
        We cut back on spending or we increase our earnings.
        The current administration of the USA is in this exact situation and is still spending at an unprecedented level. They are refusing to raise taxes to offset spending. They are full speed ahead and going for bankruptcy. I heard a news report the banks are asking for another cash injection from the Fed. This will further decrease the value of the American dollar and increase the chance of a total market collapse. The only thing needed to complete this collapse will be for the Federal Reserve to call in loans.

        I believe it doesn’t take a PHD. in economics to understand mass transfers of wealth happen mostly in times of depression. This generation of the truly rich have never had the absolute zeal that comes from the larceny of either the 1812 British Stock Market crash or the September 29, 1929 stock market crash on Wall Street. The likes of the Rothschilds Morgans Rockerfellers didnt loose their mass fortunes in these crashes they made them. This is a fact not a conspiracy theory. The crash of 2007 who were the victims and who were the victors. Again the Rothschilds Morgans Rockerfellers made out pretty dam good and the poor american’s lost their pensions. Nobody went to jail….

        They wont crash this until they are assured the American public won’t rise up against them in a revolution. That is why they need the Gun Control first. Once they have the Gun Control in the United States the crash will come. It will be a crash of personal freedoms and the people will have nothing left to defend themselves from this next wave of theft. Britain and Canada have huge gun laws to prevent a revolt on the establishment. The US is the only country with both the population and the means to fight for freedom.

      • muertos says :

        Your family is right. Leave it alone.

        If this topic is destroying your happiness, you absolutely need to move on. Nazis are not going to come for you and load you onto a train. Obama is not going to come take your guns. If this is what you’re worried about, you seriously need to chill out.

        The Global Domination Agenda does not exist. The Illuminati does not exist. The New World Order does not exist. It’s pointless to worry about what they’re going to do, because they do not exist.

        Listen to your family. Move on. Stop watching conspiracy videos, stop watching Thrive, stop watching Zeitgeist and Fall of the Republic, and turn your attention toward something else. What you describe in your comment is an unhealthy obsession with conspiracy thinking. I’ve seen that destroy people. Please stop, before you wind up going down that road too.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        “Watch for Gun Control in Obama’s next term. If it comes the beginning of the end is in play. The rich on this planet have no regard for the poor. Every City the World over is now using closed circuit TV to watch its citizens. Why? What is there to fear? This is a direct violation of our civil liberties. Why is my Government so interested in watching me?”

        Can you please properly define “gun control”? There’s a difference between Obama making it harder for dangerous people to own guns and Obama banning guns altogether.

        “The line between the haves and have nots is growing. There is going to be a breaking point. I believe the collapse of 2007 was a small bump in the road to what is coming. This economic bump was caused mainly through a couple of small European countries failing to meet loan payments. (Greece Spain Portugal) Now think about the United States of America declaring bankruptcy and the World wide repercussions.”

        The United States is nowhere near bankrupt (a high national debt, yes, but this is not bankrupcy).

        “If you or I are spending more then we are making we have two choices.
        We cut back on spending or we increase our earnings.
        The current administration of the USA is in this exact situation and is still spending at an unprecedented level. They are refusing to raise taxes to offset spending.”

        That is not true. Obama has made proposals for revenue increases several times. It is Foster Gamble who proposes eliminating most sources of revenue.

        “They are full speed ahead and going for bankruptcy. I heard a news report the banks are asking for another cash injection from the Fed. This will further decrease the value of the American dollar and increase the chance of a total market collapse. The only thing needed to complete this collapse will be for the Federal Reserve to call in loans.”

        See the link I posted somewhere else about myths on the Fed. The federal reserve pumped a lot of money into the banks, yes, but the vast majority of it was paid back. Altogether, the Fed only increased the total money supply by roughly $1 trillion (a lot, yes, but not nearly as much as people claim).

        “I believe it doesn’t take a PHD. in economics to understand mass transfers of wealth happen mostly in times of depression. This generation of the truly rich have never had the absolute zeal that comes from the larceny of either the 1812 British Stock Market crash or the September 29, 1929 stock market crash on Wall Street. The likes of the Rothschilds Morgans Rockerfellers didnt loose their mass fortunes in these crashes they made them. This is a fact not a conspiracy theory. The crash of 2007 who were the victims and who were the victors. Again the Rothschilds Morgans Rockerfellers made out pretty dam good and the poor american’s lost their pensions. Nobody went to jail….”

        I don’t think you understand the differences between those times. All of theose happened due to sources of underegulation. The Federal Reserve is one of the many bodies the government has to regulate the national banks. Before it, economic collapses happened much more often.

        “They wont crash this until they are assured the American public won’t rise up against them in a revolution. That is why they need the Gun Control first. Once they have the Gun Control in the United States the crash will come. It will be a crash of personal freedoms and the people will have nothing left to defend themselves from this next wave of theft. Britain and Canada have huge gun laws to prevent a revolt on the establishment. The US is the only country with both the population and the means to fight for freedom.”
        Again, you need to properly define “gun control”.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        Edit: Muertos is right, Andy. You should take a couple days off from this blog. Your family is probably right, and you are using a great deal of hyperboly here.

      • andy says :

        Oswald acted alone? Really… Two people saw Lee Harvey Oswald on the second floor of the Texas book depository. His boss and a Police Officer. Thirty seconds after the last shot was fired. Lee was in the workers lunch room at the opposite corner of the building. He was eating his lunch and did not appear to be out of breath. The run alone would take more then thirty seconds from the sixth floor. Thirty to fifty individuals were seen running up the grassy knoll chasing what they all thought to be the shooter. This was an eye witness report by a journal list who was on the street as the shots were fired. He even took a photo of the American Citizens who ran up the hill to confront the gunman.

        Your lack a daisy answer to this question is extremely disturbing. It makes me think you are not as clever as you think you are or you are being paid to say these things in order to forfeit the truth?

        I watched a documentary on JFK assassination from the actual day it happened including the autopsy at the Dallas General. The Doctor doing the examination flipped a flap of The presidents scalp over and there in the back left portion of the Presidents skull was a gaping hole you could easily fit your hand into. This is not the picture that is in the Warren report? I own the book and the picture in the Warren report is bullshit!

        Why is the Warren report only mentioning one Gun when there were two found? Experts have often question if Lee was the real assassin why didnt he start firing as the President came directly towards him. This would make his target become larger and larger in his telescopic sights and make it the ideal shot. Instead we are told Lee waits for the target to pass. He now has to stick his gun out of the window. There is a large oak tree in his path blocking his shot. The Presidents car slowed for the corner and is now speeding up making his target smaller and smaller. Lee now has the added benefit of shooting directly into the sun.

      • muertos says :

        You have a lot of misconceptions about the Kennedy assassination. Every “fact” that you state here in your comment is incorrect. All of these issues are dealt with exhaustively in Vincent Bugliosi’s book “Reclaiming History,” which I highly recommend you read. Once you read it, I’m confident you will conclude, as any rational person would, that the evidence of Oswald’s guilt is overwhelming and extremely well-proven, and that there is absolutely zero evidence that he worked with anyone or was part of any conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy.

        Nevertheless, the JFK assassination is not one of the primary subjects of this blog. I direct you to the Bugliosi book, which is comprehensive. Thanks for your comment.

      • andy says :

        I have not read the Bugliosli book… You have apparently not read “The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald book by Robert J. Groden, which is extremely comprehensive and the most complete pictorial collection concerning this matter. In 1976 the US Government reopened the investigation of this murder and reclassified this murder as Highly probable conspiracy!

        Further more if you have ever seen the Zapruder film and see the back of JFK’s head explode in a crimson mist coming from the back of his head all over the back of the limo then you are an idiot to say JFK was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald who was a block and a half behind the Presidents. If indeed Oswald fired the killing shot the bullets path would have left a small hole in the back of JFK’s head and blown his face into the front seat. The Warren commission picture supports this shot. However find the pictures taken of JFK in Dallas right after the shooting. That man died instantly in the back seat of that car. No matter what you read or what anyone tells you. I know what death looks like from a fatal gun shot. Watch the presidents head slump over to his left shoulder. The last thing that went through the presidents mind November 22, 1963 in Dallas was a bullet shot from in front of the motorcade.

        A recent article concerning this event has come to light. Jacqueline Kennedy’s body guard was the first secret service member to reach the President and you can see him push Mrs. Kennedy back into the car. He says Mrs. Kennedy was trying to retrieve brain matter blown out of JFKs head that was all over the trunk. This is bullchit. She was in full flee mode. She wanted to get the hell out of that back seat as quickly as she could. Until you are sitting beside someone whos head suddenly explodes you dont have the right to condemn her for her reaction. None of us know how we will react in this type of situation. If the plane you are on starts to fall from the sky are you going to sit there and accept your fate or are you going to scream like a little school girl?

        Now my mind is always open to new concepts. It seems your mind has already been closed to this issue. No matter what I present you are not going to accept anything but your version of the truth. Now I always say a mind should never set. Concrete sets but a mind never should. Usually in life if one wants to solve a crime, one should look at who benefits the most by a persons demise. This doesn’t hold true in sex crimes but they are much rarer then Hollywood would have you believe. This is why police investigations focus so much attention on family members when a murder occurs.

        Now I am not suggesting a member of the Kennedy family killed their own but instead who was going to benefit the most from this mans death? Well it is well known Kennedy didnt want a war in Vietnam. Further more why was Bobby Kennedy also murdered? How is it possible that Sirhan Sirhan was in front of Bobby to his left yet the killing shot came from behind Bobby? Why is there 11-13 shots heard on the audio tape of the killing when Sirhans gun held only 8?

        So you see the world isn’t the nice little safe place you think it is. There are people in it that will do terrible things to keep it going their way. You have two different justice systems one for the poor and one for the rich. As far as I know not one multimillionaire sits on death row in the United States. This is clearly a punishment for the impoverished. You have very rich people who own the media. I think the count of people who controlled the networks in 1945 was around one hundred fifty individuals. It has now shrank to five.

        Democracy is bullshit scam that is now clearly run by the rich to ensure the laws remain in their favor. If I rob a bank and get caught I am going to jail. Yet these crooks change the banking system when their boy Clinton got to the whitehouse they used him to deregulate Wall Street. They reaped about 20 trillion dollars of investors money from this one scam. Now I know there is a guy in New York doing an investigation in this fiasco but I am not holding my breath for prosecutions coming down.

        The tipping point for the US will come in 2014. If by some miracle Ron Paul makes the ballot in November you will see another assassination as sure as I have a nose on my face. They are not going to let him change the game this late in.

      • muertos says :

        This blog is about Thrive. I engaged in limited discussion of the JFK assassination because commenters have brought it up, but I’m not going to waste my time refuting all of the factually incorrect nonsense you’ve posted especially when it’s already been debunked in Bugliosi’s 1700-page book. If you want to discuss it further, read the Bugliosi book and post your thoughts on it at my other blog (muertos.blog.com) where there is specifically a JFK-related post.

      • andy says :

        Of course you’re not. Your type never does. I could say black and you would say white. Your type likes to argue no matter what position I take you will take the exact opposite. If you didnt there wouldnt need to be a conversation. The Zapruder film clearly shows anyone with half an IQ where the bullet came from. You can not argue this fact not even the dick head with 1700 pages of bullchit can dismiss the crimson trail blowing out the back on JFK’s head. There was a debunking the Zapruder film that was also debunked. Your type also sees the necessity of spending 650 million dollars to win 2.5 million dollar job. You get a book deal too! Your type believes that the Governments of all the so called free nations passing similar laws is just a mere coincidence and that there is no intelligent agenda behind this strange phenomenon. Yet certain European countries must accept conditions before their country will receive financial aid. Who are these people demands such conditions? Where do these peoples allegiances lie?

        Perhaps, you one of their pawns bought and paid for. Your job is to present misinformation to confuse or too deny. btw the book is 1612 pages not 1700. If you are going to state facts get them right.

        Check out the picture of Lee Harvey Oswald holding the gun in front of his rented apartment notice the square chin. Oswald had a slender narrow pointed chin with a cleft. Who is holding the gun in front of his rented apartment? This fact is documented in Lee Harvey Oswalds Navy Photo taken in 1959. Also his mug shot taken November 23. 1963. So debunk my so called factually incorrect nonsense with something more then your words. I have posted facts. Where all you post is this 1612 page book from some prosecutor who’s claim to fame is Charles Manson prosecution. What… prosecutors are Gods and they have a gift on truth. What about OJ Simson? What about all the innocent poor people on death row? I will guaranty you the picture of JFK’s head with the fist size hole in the back of it, is not in your miracle Bugliosi book.

        I think you are a fucking idiot and a complete waste of my time…

      • muertos says :

        What does this have to do with the deceptions, distortions and factual errors in the movie Thrive? That’s the subject of this blog. Why don’t you want to talk about that? What are you afraid of?

  9. Sonya says :

    Hey all people on the comment thread. Did you ever stop to think who is writing this debunked page?…At least Foster Gamble says his name and did not hide…Ever wonder if we actually researched the guy writing this stuff we might find just as much negative information as he is spouting out about the Gambles?…This is the biggest farce I have ever seen. PUT YOUR FACE OUT TO THE PUBLIC!! COME ON! Or are you scared that you will no longer have a blog to write if people found out who you are?

  10. Noah Neuno says :

    You invite people to read the posts and explore the site to “…understand what this movie is about, why it exists and what it’s telling the world….” I beg you to spare me the many lifetimes it would take to digest all the vitriol in this “discussion” and simply express your opinion “…what this movie is about, why it exists and what it’s telling the world.”

  11. daniel911 says :

    Andy you are my hero man.
    muertos u seem to avoid everything he throws at u, yet he seems to be able to make a rebuttal towards everything u threw at him. hmmmm

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