Why We Fight: Progressive Leader Who Repudiated Thrive Explains Why Its Conspiracy Theories Are Harmful.

This week I had an email conversation with John Robbins. Mr. Robbins is a well-known environmentalist author and lecturer, undoubtedly a leader in the intellectual progressive movement in this country. He appears in Thrive, and is one of the ten people who signed an open letter declaring their disassociation from the movie. I wrote an article about this development earlier this weekend, which includes the text of that letter.

The text of the letter does not mention conspiracy theories. I was curious whether Mr. Robbins had an opinion on the conspiracy content of Thrive and whether this was a motivating factor in his decision to disassociate himself from the film. The response I got from him was very interesting and illuminating. When I read it, I was amazed at how cogently he was also expressing my own reasons for opposing the movie.

The Text of John Robbins’s Letter to Me

Mr. Robbins gave me permission to post his response here on this blog. Here it is.

“There is a great deal about Thrive that I find untrue and dangerous.   You ask if I have any comment on the film’s promotion of conspiracy theories.  Yes, I do.

There is no doubt that staggering wealth and power is today concentrated in the hands of a tiny minority of humanity.  The combined net worth of the world’s richest thousand or so people — the planet’s billionaires — is almost twice that of the poorest 2.5 billion.  This disparity is nothing less than an indictment of our civilization.  It is also certain that networks exist among the most powerful people that enable a remarkably few people to shape the world’s economy,  to determine what is known and what is not, which views are accepted and which are not, and what priorities and values will prevail.  They decide whether we will live in war or peace, how our treasure will be spent, and they have proven to be eminently successful at enriching themselves at the expense of the common good.

But fantasies about secret conspiracies distract us from the work at hand.  Those few who hold immense wealth and power are still people.  They are not reptiles in human form.  They are perhaps pathologically competitive or greedy, but still human, riven with differences and egos, and not particularly good at sustaining relationships, much less of organizing massive secret cabals to dominate all life on this planet.

Thrive promotes conspiracy theories that are based on an imaginary division between “us” and “them.”  “We” are many and well-meaning but victimized; while “they” are a tiny, greedy and immensely powerful few who are masterfully organized, who are purposefully causing massive disasters in order to cull the population, and who will do absolutely anything in their quest to achieve total world domination.  I think the allure of this way of thinking is that it distracts and absolves us from the troubling truth that the real source of the problem is in all of us, and in the economic systems we have collectively produced.  As Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn wrote, “The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart.”

Foster Gamble has said that the earthquake that caused the tsunami that wreaked havoc on the nuclear plants in Fukushima was deliberately created by those seeking absolute world domination  to punish the Japanese for not acceding to their wishes.   He has said that “they” have a machine in Alaska that enables them to create earthquakes at will, anywhere on earth, and of any desired strength.  In my judgement, this is the thinking of someone who has lost all grounding in reality.

Thrive advances the idea that vaccinations have been purposefully created by the global elite to decimate the population, an idea that I find both ludicrous and dangerous.  There is no doubt that vaccinations have troubling side effects.  Some of them may be more toxic than we know.  But it was a vaccine that enabled the elimination of smallpox, a scourge which was responsible for approximately 500 million human deaths in the 20th century.  Thrive promotes the idea that the U.N. and world treaties are the work of evil-doers intent on total world domination.  These institutions are far from perfect.  But it was only through the concerted efforts of the global health community and the World Health Organization that smallpox, perhaps the killer of more humans than any other in world history, was eradicated.

There are many things that are terribly wrong in our world.  All living creatures are poisoned and compromised by surging levels of man-made toxins that spew into our world, relatively unchecked.   We are experiencing unprecedented levels of heart disease, cancer, obesity and childhood diabetes.  Our financial institutions and to a large extent our political system have been hijacked by greedy, sociopathic individuals who seem to feel no sense of responsibility to the well being of the whole.   Our  military industrial complex with its voracious appetite for new markets, and its obscenely paranoid world view, expands unchecked with frightening and horrific speed.

But holding these tragedies as the intentional acts of a tiny group of families seeking to rule the world distracts us from the arduous work of confronting the real challenges before us.

I hope this is helpful.

Warmly,

John”

My Own Thoughts

I find myself in virtually total agreement with the points Mr. Robbins raised in his letter. He’s not only expressed his own reasons for turning his back on the film, but he’s very neatly and eloquently summarized my own motivations for opposing it.

Some readers of this blog may be surprised to see this. The tone taken in many comments by Thrive fans who disagree with me seems to indicate that many of them assume that because I don’t believe in the film’s conspiracy theories, this must mean I agree with every action taken by the government or by economic interests, or that I don’t think there is corruption, or that I must think our current economic system is fair and just. Although I’ve stated repeatedly, beginning in the FAQ, that I don’t hold any of these views, many—perhaps even most—Thrive fans just don’t get it.

I believe that income disparity is a huge problem in the United States and the world. I believe that the economic system in America isn’t functioning fairly or properly. I believe business and corporate interests have too much influence and control over policy. I believe that we spend too much on wars and military interventions and not enough on helping Americans here at home. Above all, I believe that anthropogenic global warming is a dire threat to our planet and that immediate and decisive action must be taken—by governments, by businesses, and by individuals—to combat it. From his statement, I gather that Mr. Robbins probably shares these views.

How Does Thrive Divert Attention from Real Problems?

Thrive is deeply misguided because it’s diverting its viewers’ attention away from the real solutions that we must pursue to these very real problems. My core grievance with conspiracy theories is that they are false. However, it’s the effect of that falsity in the real world which is why opposing conspiracy theories matters. Conspiracy thinking reduces the world into a simplistic black-and-white, good-versus-evil, lightworkers-versus-disinformation paradigm. Against that background, nothing productive can get done.

Here’s how Thrive operates in this regard.

Problem: environmental degradation caused by reliance on fossil fuels.

Real solution: Work toward developing economically and socially realistic alternatives to fossil fuels, such as renewable energy resources (solar, wind, water power, etc.) as well as smarter solutions in building, land use and lifestyle.

Thrive solution: “Free energy” machines developed from technology given to us by aliens will save the world without us having to do anything (except to oppose the “Global Domination Elite.”).

Problem: income disparity and poverty.

Real solution: Work toward meaningful and fair reform of the economic system, policies that promote economic opportunity at the bottom, and make sure businesses and corporations pay their fair share and contribute to our society.

Thrive solution: Take out the “Global Domination Elite.” Taxation is theft; abolish it.

Problem: government corruption.

Real solution: Meaningful campaign finance reform; eliminate (or at least reduce) corporate/business influence in politics; punish wrongdoers; elect honest candidates.

Thrive solution: All corruption is the fault of the “Global Domination Elite.” Rise up against them and destroy them, and everything will be fine.

Problem: disease in the developing world.

Real solution: Develop medical technology and healthy vaccines, and put social and political institutions in place to distribute medical care to as many people as possible.

Thrive solution: Vaccines are evil tools of the “Global Domination Elite” and should be banned.

Problem: anthropogenic global warming.

Real solution: Massive worldwide mobilization by governments and business interests to develop clean technology as rapidly as possible, reduce carbon emissions and mitigate areas impacted by global warming disasters. International cooperation on political, economic, and scientific levels.

Thrive solution: The problem does not exist. Global warming is a hoax, a sham and a conspiracy by the “Global Domination Elite.”

Do you see how this works? This is why Thrive is worth speaking out against.

One Last Example: the HAARP Earthquake Machine.

A totally shocking detail included in Mr. Robbins’s letter is his statement of Foster Gamble’s statements about the Fukushima earthquake and tsunami which devastated Japan early last year. Mr. Robbins says, “He has said that “they” have a machine in Alaska that enables them to create earthquakes at will, anywhere on earth, and of any desired strength.”

This is a very old conspiracy theory called HAARP. You can read a debunking of HAARP conspiracy theories from noted skeptic Brian Dunning here. It’s one of the stupidest, most irrational and most paranoid conspiracy theories out there, but many people, unfortunately, believe it. I didn’t know until I saw Mr. Robbins’s letter that Foster Gamble has expressed belief in HAARP, but it doesn’t surprise me. It’s also a perfect illustration of how conspiracy theories, once they get inside a person’s head, can totally corrode their ability to think rationally about world problems.

If people who believed in HAARP had any significant positions of power, what sort of world would we have? An earthquake and tsunami in Japan, caused by tectonic stresses and geologic processes, would be interpreted through the lens of this conspiracy theory as a man-made act of war, quite naturally inviting some sort of retaliation or response. If Foster Gamble could identify a specific individual or groups of individuals that he thought caused the Fukushima disaster, I would venture a guess that he would want those individuals to be held accountable in some way. This is in the total absence of any evidence whatsoever that an earthquake and tsunami in Japan was caused by HAARP.

Can you see how dangerous this type of thinking is? Furthermore, does the fact that this sort of thinking is on the rise scare you as much as it scares me?

Why is conspiracy thinking and conspiracy ideology on the rise? Because of people like Alex Jones, Eustace Mullins, David Icke, and Jeff Rense—and because of movies like Loose Change, Zeitgeist, and yes, Thrive.

So, those of you who wonder why I created this blog, why I speak out so forcefully against conspiracy theories and conspiracy thinking, you now have your answer.

When I open my email inbox every morning to see the host of comments posted on this blog during the night—the majority of them highly negative—I sometimes think of this old song by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. “You can stand me up at the gates of Hell, but I won’t back down.”

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78 responses to “Why We Fight: Progressive Leader Who Repudiated Thrive Explains Why Its Conspiracy Theories Are Harmful.”

  1. Mr. Anon says :

    Excellent article Muertos. You and Mr. Robbins express well why Thrive is ultimately a dangerous movie that distracts its viewers from real issues out there.

    • john says :

      These are the solutions proposed on the thrivemovement website. Tell me; regardless of possible or opinionated probable inaccurate evidence, what is wrong with the message? We can critique the movie all we want but I see none of these things as anything but productive and healthy movements.
      1.
      Get Informed, Speak Up & Connect with Others
      2.
      Bank Locally
      3.
      Buy and Invest Responsibly
      4.
      Join the Movement to Audit and End the Federal Reserve
      5.
      Keep the Internet Fair & Open
      6.
      Support Independent Media
      7.
      Support Organic, Non-GMO Farming
      8.
      Require Election & Campaign Finance Reform
      9.
      Advocate for Renewable and “Free” Energy
      10.
      Take Part in Critical Mass Actions

      • muertos says :

        The very tepid and vague solutions on the Thrive Movement site–which are added largely as an afterthought–are far from the whole story. Thrive’s main purpose is not to advance these solutions. Its main purpose is to engender belief in conspiracy theories and libertarian political/economic ideology, as well as New Age religious thought.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        4 is a flaw, because the Fed is audited every year. The Fed has important functions as well, like lowering interest rates which has prevented large-scale recessions for the last century.
        9. This is a large part of the problem. Advocating “Free energy” is pointless, because “free energy” does not exist. If people begin advocating “free energy” instead of solar, wind, and arguably nuclear (all of which are denounced as being puppet industries created by the GDA).

        The rest of the goals are good, but they are extremely vague. However, if these goals were all Gamble wanted, why did he make a movie about conspiracy theories and new age nonsense? These goals can be conveyed by a completely different movie.

  2. Viktor says :

    I agree with most of your article. I think Thrive goes too far with its conspiracy theories. But some of your ‘Thrive solutions’ are too simplistic and you make it seem like everything in Thrive isn’t worth considering. The free-energy concept wasn’t given by aliens. Nicola Tesla started with it and a lot of other people (for example Bedini) experimented with it. At the Technic University of Delft (Netherlands) was a demonstration a functioning ‘free-energy’ machine. I actually never heard of it again. I wonder why …

    I don’t like how all the information is being presented in the film. I feel like I’m watching some kind of educational film for childeren, instead of a film meant for adults. And there is too much emotion and too little objectivity, but that’s the only way to reach the American public.

    Still this film has some truth in it. The whole systeem is corrupt. When a cure for cancer has been found, but the man who found it, is being made to stop, something is wrong. There is a long list of inventors, went missing, killed, or sent to a mental hospital, because they invented something that could endanger some big companies.

    The problem is this capitalistic world view. It’s all about profit. Money and profit. Hospitals need to make money, schools need to make money, governments need to make money, etc. This is also the reason why renewable products and free-energy don’t really make it into the system. You can’t make as much profit with it, as with most of todays products.

    PS: Sorry for the bad grammar and English in general, it’s not my native language.

    PPS: Nice music link :D

    • Viktor says :

      I did a little bit of research and the man at Delf was a fraud. Sorry for the misinfo.

    • Bruce says :

      “The problem is this … world view …” – Exactly! No need for a conspiracy, when you have a set of cultural beliefs that virtually all members of the culture unthinkingly accept and live by.

      In fact, postulating a conspiracy ignores the power of how culture works through our minds. We carry our culture around inside our heads as a bundle of assumptions and conditioned reactions – it exists nowhere else. We live every day based on our assumptions and conditioning. That’s all.

      One example that causes trouble: we assume that conflict is the only way to change anything (War on Drugs, War on Poverty, Fight Disease, Fight Violence (lol)). It’s all around us in the media. We assume many other things that limit us or lead us into self-defeating behavior as a society.

      Conspiracy is conscious. Culture is unconscious. Culture is far and away more powerful than any conspiracy could ever be.

      Changing the culture would be a great way to control the people, except that it’s almost impossible to change a culture the way you’d like to. It wiggles and gets out of control. Look at Communist China. More and more of the people there are acting like capitalists! Oops.

      If you want to find out what’s really controlling you, check out what your culture believes. It’s a little hard to do, but it’s possible.

      If you do gain real freedom of choice, you’ll discover that your culture is far more powerful in enforcing conformity than any conspiracy could ever be. No need for secret informants or command structures. Literally everybody in your city – everybody you meet during the day – will automatically try, endlessly, to make you conform to your culture.

      Who needs conspiracies when you have cultures?

      The good news is that you can slowly change a culture from the inside. But only if the people find something helpful or good about the change.

      Education without confrontation is the best way. Pointing out new alternatives and staying out of arguments. Planting seeds and leaving them to sprout. It requires lots of patience and long-term effort. It’s our best and only hope.

    • sberry3@hotmail.co.uk says :

      Just to add, i’m not 100% sure but didn’t Tesla get humiliated within the science world and discredited for his ground braking work for it being impossible, on the scale needed to have an impact within the modern world? I was also told he invented several other things including the radio wave, which was then accredited to some one else? Either way this guy was a legend and I was under the impression he was mysteriously bumped off for the same reasons implied before?!

  3. freesoulinvesting says :

    Hey there, Muertos. I’d appreciate your thoughts on the following documentary.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5576670191369613647

  4. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    Every Sunday, my itinerant private tutoring duties take me past the ABC-Disney Studios, the vast campus in downtown Burbank, and last Sunday, while driving past the wrought iron fences — which all have the tops of their posts shaped into Mickey Mouse ears — I experienced an amazing revelation: that what Foster Gamble has done with his movie THRIVE was to “disneyfy” and thus brighten and make optimistic the normally dark and pessimistic world of deep conspiracy theories.

    And then as I gazed over at all the wrought-iron Mickey Mouse ears passing by on the fence top, I was brought back in fond childhood memory to the wonderfully optimistic era when the first Mickey Mouse club appeared on television in 1955. The Mousketeers! Yes, there was Bobby and Darlene, and Cubby and Karen and of course Annette! [Sigh!]

    Suddenly I found myself singing the Mickey Mouse Club “Alma Mater” song, that always marked the end of a TV season for the Mousketeers. Please listen to the 1:25 rendition of the song here:

    The Mickey Mouse Club Alma Mater Song
    (as sung at the end of Season 3 in 1957.)

    I found myself singing new words to the song. Instead of “Mickey Mouse,” I was singing “Foster Thrive.” Instead of seeing the chorus of sweet and smiling Mousketeers, I saw much older but still childish Thriveteers. Instead of them all wearing Mickey Mouse Ear hats, I saw Foster Gamble and his band of Thriveteers all wearing a wondrous torus hat. (Of course when designing such a hat, we must take care with the size of the opening, lest it appear too much like a Sufi turban, but we’ll iron out the details later.)

    And so “ladies and gentlemen,” now regressed by Thrivish nostalgia to “boys and girls,” I lovingly composed new lyrics to the alma mater song and now offer the lyrics here as a tribute to Foster Gamble and all his Thriveteers everywhere.

    ——————————-
    New Lyrics for the Foster Thrive Club Alma Mater as written by Tomfortas of Hollywood. Please sing with a slow and moving tempo, that befitting a requiem, as this might be the end of the first season for the movie THRIVE)

    [TECHNICAL NOTE: In singing the spelling of the individual letters, we need to cheat a little on the last name. While MOUSE has 5 letters, THRIVE has 6, but we’ll spell it out as T-H-R-I-V, and since we pronounce the letter V anyway as “vee,” then just give an extra beat of pronouncing the “ee” and that will solve the syllable problem. Oh, and at the appropriate time, Foster and all the Thriveteers are to raise their torus hats high.]

    ++++++++++++++++++

    What on earth . . . . will it take . . .
    For folks like you and me? . . .

    F–O–S . . . . .T–E–R . . . . T–H–R–I–Ve
    Foster Thrive . . . .[Chorus]: Foster Thrive!
    Foster Thrive . . . .[Chorus]: Foster Thrive!
    Forever let us hold our torus high, . . . high, high, high!

    Through the years . . . we’re sure to thrive . . .
    Wherever we may be . . . .

    F–O–S . . . . .T–E–R . . . . T–H–R–I–Ve
    Foster Thrive . . . .[Chorus]: Foster Thrive!
    Foster Thrive . . . .[Chorus]: Foster Thrive!
    Forever let us hold our torus high, . . . high, high, high!

    Now it’s time . . . to say good-bye ….
    To all conspiracies . . ..

    F–O–S . . . . .T–E–R . . . .
    T–H–R–I–Veeeee

    • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

      What a wonderful response I just got from the THRIVE Team!

      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      Hi Tom,

      Thanks for your interest in Thrive and thanks for sharing your new rendition. I have forwarded it to Foster and I’m sure it will put a smile on his face.

      Kind regards,
      Mitch
      The THRIVE Team

      ===================

      Dear Mitch,

      Thanks so much for your kind response. I’m sure at this heavy time of “growing pains” for the movie THRIVE, Foster could use some cheering up. So tell him to take heart, don’t let the bastards wear him down, and that I am now hard at work on creating a new old program called “Mister Gamble’s Neighborhood.”

      Best regards,
      Tom
      The SCRIVE Team

    • Foster Gamble says :

      For Tom Mellett, alias hollywoodtomfortas, alias tombuoyed

      I had to leave a Yahoo group because of the vicious, uninformed ways you were attacking me. You have twice apologized and then started in again almost immediately.

      Now you have been emailing me personally, and you got my home phone and called me, admitting that you are battling with trying to get off psychotropic medication and that you have been in depression and dealing with both homicidal and suicidal thoughts, even referring to the “Bin Laden” side of your personality. You have hounded me publicly and privately with venomous attacks on me and on THRIVE.

      My wife and I are accustomed to a wide range of people and their opinions. However, we consider you to be dangerous and have notified authorities of the threat we believe you pose.

      You are hereby warned that if you come to an event where we are or call or write to us we will seek intervention to protect ourselves from your sad and serious condition.

      I know from our personal conversations that you are admittedly uninformed: you have not read David Icke thought you constantly attack him, nor have you done your homework on Free Energy, conspiracy, extraterrestrial phenomena, or economics. You have acknowledged you have no interest in solutions, but want to take others down with you. You are obviously personally motivated and have stepped beyond the line of public dissent to personal violation and threat.

      This is my public request that you cease and desist all Emails, phone calls, visits or any other attempts to attach yourself to me or to my work.

      Seriously,
      Foster

      PS – Obviously our customer service person below had not yet been alerted as to who you were.

      • anticultist says :

        Ouch, I have to agree with Foster here though, this Tom dude comes across as warped in the head. Good luck keeping the crackpots away from you, but you chose to go down this path of entertaining the crazy peoples beliefs.

        Crazy people go with the territory of conspiracy theories.

  5. Nick says :

    hi muertos

    just been watching the film, really really loved it !!
    then wanted to know what people thought
    finally found your blog (googling for “thrive+debunk”)

    thanks for this blog which helps merging the movie into everyday life I think
    (without being “brainwashed”, I mean without taking everything in the movie for 100% true and acting upon it)

    especially about the real problem in sinking too deeply into conspiracy theories
    which is forgetting the problems that are to address
    by too much focusing on a (hypothetical, yet to judge) culprit

    thank you for making me “take the power back” this way !!
    I still love the movie and will watch it again and again

    what about you ? may I ask you a couple of questions ?

    * I suppose you totally not into the “occupy wall street” thing ? Or are you ? What do you think of growing number of people in the world not wanting of the “ol’system” anymore ?

    * what make people make movies like Thrive or Zeitgeist in your opinion ? is there a conspiracy behind “conspiracy movies” ?

    cheers from france
    nick

    • Sonya says :

      Hey all people on the comment thread. Did you ever stop to think who is writing this debunked page?…At least Foster Gamble says his name and did not hide…Ever wonder if we actually researched the guy writing this stuff we might find just as much negative information as he is spouting out about the Gambles?…This is the biggest farce I have ever seen. PUT YOUR FACE OUT TO THE PUBLIC!! COME ON! Or are you scared that you will no longer have a blog to write if people found out who you are?

      • anticultist says :

        If you bothered to look about the guy doing the debunking of this shitty movie called Thrive has already made himself public, he is not hiding his identity or who he is. You simply don’t know who he is and are making out that he is somehow being devious, this is completely untrue.

        Besides, whether you know who he is or not is irrelevant, because what he is saying about the movie on this blog is accurate and legitimate.

        Thrive is a complete pile of crap and the blog here makes a valid and effective case for why this is so.

  6. Janet says :

    The Thrive movie is great and you don’t have to believe everything in it to get something out of it. The last half hour is devoted to solutions that I find to be quite grounded and uplifting. I recommend everyone watch it with an open mind and come to their own conclusions.

    To Muertos: what is your real name? why should we believe what you say over others when we don’t even know who the real author is behind the articles?

    • anticultist says :

      Fallacious reasoning, his points about the movie are relevant whether you know his identity or not. The kind of reasoning you just exhibited shows exactly why people who love Thrive are incapable of critical thinking.

  7. David Parkes says :

    Muertos you are rationalist and a scholar, kudos/

  8. Sonya says :

    Hey all people on the comment thread. Did you ever stop to think who is writing this debunked page?…At least Foster Gamble says his name and did not hide…Ever wonder if we actually researched the guy writing this stuff we might find just as much negative information as he is spouting out about the Gambles?…This is the biggest farce I have ever seen. PUT YOUR FACE OUT TO THE PUBLIC!! COME ON! Or are you scared that you will no longer have a blog to write if people found out who you are?

    • Colin kavanagh says :

      I’d write under an alias too if I was actively debunking conspiritard clap-trap. Death threats and stalking are par for the course with pro-thrivers and conspiracy theorists in general. I guess that is what one has to resort to when there is no actual evidence for one’s beliefs.

    • anticultist says :

      Again fallacious reasoning and exhibiting an inability to use critical thinking,.

      Your paranoia about who Muertos is does not count for anything in the real world, it is only conspiracy theorists who would get so paranoid about a persons identity.

  9. Marshall says :

    John says right up front, “There is no doubt that staggering wealth and power is today concentrated in the hands of a tiny minority of humanity. The combined net worth of the world’s richest thousand or so people — the planet’s billionaires — is almost twice that of the poorest 2.5 billion. This disparity is nothing less than an indictment of our civilization. It is also certain that networks exist among the most powerful people that enable a remarkably few people to shape the world’s economy, to determine what is known and what is not, which views are accepted and which are not, and what priorities and values will prevail. They decide whether we will live in war or peace, how our treasure will be spent, and they have proven to be eminently successful at enriching themselves at the expense of the common good.

    But fantasies about secret conspiracies distract us from the work at hand.”

    He describes the reality with vivid clarity, then says that to think about it as somehow being an intentional plan, held in place by those who set it up and control it, is a fantasy and distraction? John… slap some cold water on your face. You are obviously very informed about the situation. Face it head on. It does not care whether you suffer at its hands or not. The system, and the people themselves who are running it, are corrupt and immoral, but they are not inept fools who happened upon a lucky treasure. It was designed to create just the outcome you describe, and it is nearly succeeding at acquiring control of all that we are ourselves will soon have no choice to change if we don’t recognize that and be forthright about it. Take a step back and reassess what you wrote so eloquently as quoted above.

    And muertos… do as Sonya challenges you to do, use your real name, be a real living person, not a dead one. Muertos means “dead”. That says a lot about where you’re coming from.

    • anticultist says :

      There is no need for him to use his real name, this is after all a blog about a movie which is fanatically loved by nutcases. Nutcases who are driven to violent actions or threats when people disagree with their paranoid worldviews.

      Conspiracy theorists are some of the most vile people on the internet, if not the most. Muertos has made his name public and what he looks like and does on the internet, but since you are incapable of actually finding out for yourself I guess you will not know.

      Just because Muertos’s name is unknown to you, does not mean shit.

      • LeeW says :

        Anticultist – odd, I have been working in this space day in, day out for over 24 months and have not yet met one person I would consider to be a “nutcase.” Nor have I met anyone driven to violent actions or threats and I see every email that comes in. I have, however, met a bunch of open-minded, well informed, caring, transparent, honest and loving human beings who want to live life to the fullest and wish the same for everyone who they encounter. Is this your idea of a nutcase? As these are all people who see the value of THRIVE and the conversation it has opened. Working for THRIVE on the front line I can tell you quite certainly, we have heard from no-one who I would consider to be a nutcase.

        Or, is it that name calling is what it has come down to to try and help debunk a wonderful movie that has opened up a very real and profound conversation, a conversation that garners thousands of new supporters each day, much to your chagrin? I know – I see the figures ;)

        Especially now, that your pseudonyms are being challenged…

        To clarify – there is no paranoia from anyone as to who Muertos is – if I really wanted to know, I could pay for that information pretty easily, or have someone find it out, but really, it isn’t that important. It’s actually better for me that it remains this way. I do find it amusing though and I enjoy asking Muertos to come out of his closet on a regular basis as I don’t know what it is he feels a need to hide from. But before you say it, I know, I know, this blog isn’t about him and it never will be.

        (*yawn*)

      • anticultist says :

        “Working for THRIVE on the front line” LOL

        That just sounds so retarded Lee. You think you are some kind of battle ground to prove that aliens have given us free energy in the form of a doughnut shaped energy field.

        Listen up Lee, you might think you have some kind of moral superiority over other people who don’t believe your shit, but I am telling you this now as an adult. Everything you and people like you believe is all purely superficial, and no matter how right you think you are you will just be proven wrong when you die and nothing you believe turns out to be true and everything you wanted never happens on Earth.

        You should just quit with your moral superficiality and try be a little more grounded in your beliefs, at the moment you lot just sound like a bunch of crazy bastards trying to convert everyone else to the cult.

      • Frankie says :

        i want to see muertos, how does he look like? just wondering. i am not a conspiratard.

  10. LeeW says :

    Here is a more recent response to John Robbins’ latest article Standing for a Thriving World (and challenging the Movie Thrive) from Foster Gamble and Kimberly Carter Gamble. Please take a moment to read. Thanks Muertos. http://www.thrivemovement.com/foster-and-kimberlys-response-to-john-robbins-critique-of-thrive

    • muertos says :

      Thanks Lee. I’m working on a response to this extremely disappointing, evasive and misleading statement by the Gambles yesterday. It will be posted as a separate blog article.

  11. LeeW says :

    Happy scribing Muertos.

    There is no evasion on our behalf, and if you think that there is, as we say in the article, “We invite any and all of the dissociate pioneers to step forward and engage in a direct public discussion with us about anything that THRIVE actually says stands for.”

    We will be more than happy to engage publicly in this conversation with anyone who would like to. As we have said many times before, we think this is the most important conversation of our times and we will be happy to devote time to it.

  12. Foster Gamble says :

    Mr. Dead Ones (Muertos)
    I was told before launching THRIVE that I would know we were having significant impact when debunkers started devoting entire websites to negative-only commentary. So I guess I should thank you for fulfilling that role.
    You claim there are no real conspiracies – despite vast documentation and court cases. You state there are no real zero point energy devices – despite a huge number of eyewitnesses, gag orders, court cases etc. You write off the possibility of contact with UFOs / ET – despite thousands of credible reports, hundreds of hours of footage, over 500 high level military, government, pilot and FAA accounts, and other country’s formal acknowledgement of UFO’s. You seem to think there is not any chance we could actually thrive with freedom for EVERYONE.
    Clearly, we disagree. That’s fine- I just wonder what you base your opinions on?

    If our predicament on this planet is the result of coincidence and incompetence, why do you hide your true identity? You claim to be afraid of repercussions from actually taking a transparent stand – Afraid of whom? What integrity is there is hiding and then deliberately trying to thwart the efforts of those who would transparently stand for our values, for deeper truths and for new paradigm solutions? I believe such cowardice and shortsightedness feed into the much more dangerous looming police state that you end up supporting through your denial.
    If there is no destructive conspiracy to be concerned about and if you are sincere, why not just post your real name, picture, bio and affiliations?
    I highly recommend that you take a fraction of the vast amount of time you put into creating only negative and baseless smears against THRIVE and actually do some real investigation so that we can engage in an informed dialog that will add something of value in these perilous times.

    I am pausing to take some time to expose some of your most blatant misrepresentations of THRIVE. My input to your assessment is in all caps below.

    How Does Thrive Divert Attention from Real Problems?
    Thrive is deeply misguided because it’s diverting its viewers’ attention away from the real solutions that we must pursue to these very real problems. My core grievance with conspiracy theories is that they are false.
    FG – I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU RELY ON COINCIDENCE THEORY AND NOTIONS OF GOVERNMENT INCOMPETENCE TO EXPLAIN THE CONSOLIDATION OF POWER THAT HAS THE MAJORITY OF THE WORLD IN SHACKLES AND AMERICA CAREENING TOWARD A POLICE STATE. I USED TO BELIEVE THAT ALSO. THEN I IMMERSED MYSELF IN RESEARCH AND FOUND CREDIBLE EVIDENCE ACTUALLY MADE MORE SENSE THAN THE MODEL OF INTERPRETATION YOU ARE RELYING ON. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THESE “33 CONSPIRACIES THAT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE?
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread531572/pg1
    However, it’s the effect of that falsity in the real world which is why opposing conspiracy theories matters. Conspiracy thinking reduces the world into a simplistic black-and-white, good-versus-evil, lightworkers-versus-disinformation paradigm. Against that background, nothing productive can get done.
    FG – AS A 3RD DEGREE BLACK BELT IN THE NON-VIOLENT MARTIAL ART OF AIKIDO, I LEARNED AND TAUGHT THAT THE FIRST IMPERATIVE OF DEFENDING ONESELF AND OUR LOVED ONES IS AN ACCURATE AND THOROUGH ASSESSMENT OF REALITY. CONSIDERING THE VIABILITY OF A CONSPIRACY AND UNDERSTANDING THE CLAIMS OF THOSE OF US WHO SUPPORT CONSPIRACY ANALYSIS IS FRUITFUL- NOT FOR YOU TO BELIEVE IT WITHOUT YOUR OWN DEEP ASSESSMENT, BUT TO CONSIDER IT SERIOUSLY. WHAT IS IT THAT SO MANY INDEPENDENT RESEARCHERS DISCOVER AND RISK THEIR LIVES TO SHARE? WHY JUST DISMISS IT WHEN SO MUCH IS AT STAKE? AN HOUR ON OUR WEBSITE, MUCH LESS AN OPEN-MINDED VIEWING OF THRIVE, WILL MAKE IT VERY CLEAR MY VIEW IS NOT SIMPLISTIC AND NEITHER ARE OUR SOLUTIONS UNPRODUCTIVE. MY INTENTION IS TO EXPOSE THE AGENDA SO THAT OUR SOLUTIONS CAN BE INFORMED. IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS INTENTIONALLY CORRUPT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO LOOK TO THEM TO BAIL US OUT OF THE MESS THEY GOT US IN TO. OR IS IT THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS IS ALL OUR FAULT? I HAVEN’T YET MET A PERSON WHO BELIEVES THEY RIGGED THE ECONOMIC SYSTEM TO SCREW THEMSELVES.
    ALREADY CITIES ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE SELF ORGANIZING INTO SOLUTIONS GROUPS BASED ON WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES AND GROUNDED SOLUTIONS THAT ADDRESS THE REAL PROBLEMS WITH RESPONSES. THIS IS THE VALUE OF PUTTING THE UNDERSTANDING THAT OUR RESEARCH AFFORDS INTO ACTION.
    Here’s how Thrive operates in this regard.
    Problem: environmental degradation caused by reliance on fossil fuels.
    Real solution: Work toward developing economically and socially realistic alternatives to fossil fuels, such as renewable energy resources (solar, wind, water power, etc.) as well as smarter solutions in building, land use and lifestyle.
    FG – ALL THAT IS GREAT…AND THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS TO SUPPLEMENT THESE IMPORTANT EFFORTS.
    Thrive solution: “Free energy” machines developed from technology given to us by aliens will save the world without us having to do anything (except to oppose the “Global Domination Elite.”).
    FG – YOUR PROPOSAL THAT WE ARE ADVOCATING DOING NOTHING UNDERMINES YOUR WHOLE ASSESSMENT OF THRIVE FOR ANYONE THINKING FOR THEMSELVES. AND IF THERE WERE “FREE ENERGY” DEVICES ALREADY DEVELOPED BY CURRENT INVENTORS IN VARIOUS COUNTRIES (WHICH I HAVE SEEN), WOULD YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THEM? AND DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOVERNMENT DOES ALL THESE RAIDS, GAG ORDERS, INTIMIDATIONS AND EVEN ASSASSINATIONS ON HOAXERS? THERE IS HUGE EVIDENCE THAT THEY RECOGNIZE THE REAL INVENTORS BECAUSE THEY HAVE THESE TECHNOLOGIES THEMSELVES. WE HAVE SEEN DEVICES THAT PRODUCE MORE ENERGY THAN THEY USE- THAT IS A FACT. GIVEN THE REALITY OF THIS TECHNOLOGY, AND THE TREMENDOUS POTENTIAL IT HAS FOR RESTRUCTURING THE POWER DYNAMIC ON THE PLANET, HEALING LIVES, CLEANING WATER, RESTORING THE ENVIRONMENT, AND SO MUCH MORE THAT WE MUTUALLY WANT, WHY DO YOU CHOOSE TO PROMOTE SUCH AN UNIFORMED AND CYNICAL RESPONSE? WHY NOT CONSIDER SERIOUSLY THE SENSE IT MAKES THAT AN OIL ECONOMY WOULD DENY THE EXISTENCE OF TECHNOLOGY THAT WOULD OBSOLETE THE OIL ECONOMY? YOU SIMPLY LEAVE YOURSELF OUT OF MORE MEANINGFUL AND FRUITFUL DIALOG BY SHOWING NOT JUST YOUR LACK OF RESEARCH, BUT YOUR LACK OF INSIGHT.
    Problem: income disparity and poverty.
    Real solution: Work toward meaningful and fair reform of the economic system, policies that promote economic opportunity at the bottom, and make sure businesses and corporations pay their fair share and contribute to our society.
    FG – SOUNDS NICE. HOW DO YOU DO THIS? WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLE IT’S BASED ON? HOW IS IT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE HAVE BEEN HOPING FOR ALL ALONG THAT HASN’T WORKED? NOW WE ARE SPIRALING TOWARD TYRANNY AND YOU ARE HOPING THAT IT MIGHT JUST SOMEHOW START WORKING? I THINK THAT’S REFERRED TO AS THE TRIUMPH OF HOPE OVER EXPERIENCE– NOT A GOOD STRATEGY WHEN ALL OF LIFE IS ON THE LINE.
    Thrive solution: Take out the “Global Domination Elite.” Taxation is theft; abolish it.
    FG – NOT “TAKE OUT” AS IN “KILL.” BUT YES, REMOVE THEM FROM THEIR POSITION OF DOMINATION OVER AND DESTRUCTION OF BILLIONS OF LIVES. WOULD YOU LEAVE THEM IN PLACE WITH MONOPOLIES ON MONEY-MAKING AND FORCE? CAN YOU DISTINGUISH BETWEEN OBSOLETING AND KILLING? IT’S A VALUABLE ONE TO RECOGNIZE. WE HAVE THE POWER TO OBSOLETE THROUGH NON-VIOLENT NON-PARTICIPATION, AND THAT IS WHAT WE CLEARLY ADVOCATE.
    THE INCOME TAX IS ONLY 100 YEARS OLD – DURING WHICH TIME OUR ECONOMY AND THAT OF THE WORLD HAS BEEN DECIMATED BY THE SAME BANKING ELITE YOU SUGGEST WE LEAVE IN POWER AND HOPE TO REFORM. REVIEW OUR 3 STAGE SOLUTIONS STRATEGY – WHICH YOU HAVE NEVER MENTIONED ONCE – TO SEE THAT THE DISNFRANCHISED WILL BE CARED FOR IN STAGE ONE TRANSITION – NOT WITH NEW TAXES, BUT WITH MONEY FROM STOPPING THE WARS, CUTTING THE IMPERIALISM BUDGET OF THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX EISENHOWER AND KENNEDY WARNED ABOUT, AND FROM ABOLISHING THE FEDERAL RESERVE.
    IF SOMEONE TAKES THE MONEY YOU EARNED UNDER THREAT OF VIOLENCE IT IS THEFT. THAT IS HOW INCOME TAX OPERATES. I BELIEVE THE KEY QUESTIONS TO HELP US MOVE BEYOND THIS FAILING OLD PARADIGM ARE:
    1) If there were a way to have accessible and good roads, education and healthcare, help for the poor, a respected system of justice etc. – without anyone being violated against their will – as in involuntary income tax – would you want that?
    FG – IF SO, THEN WE CAN ENGAGE IN THE IMPORTANT AND DIFFICULT WORK OF FIGURING OUT HOW TO DO THAT. LUCKILY MANY PEOPLE HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND THEIR INSIGHTS AND STRATEGIES CAN HELP INFORM US. THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE EXPLORED IN DEPTH ON OUR WEBSITE IN HOPES OF SAVING PEOPLE TIME BY OUTLINING KEY PRINCIPLES SO THAT TOGETHER WE CAN FORGE A NEW PARADIGM OF SOLUTIONS TO GET BEYOND TWEAKING THIS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED AND FAILING SYSTEM.
    2) Just exactly when, for you, is it OK for one human being to take the rightfully gained property of another under the threat of violence?

    FG – IF IT IS NOT OK THEN HOW DO WE MOVE BEYOND THE INVOLUNTARY TAX-BASED SYSTEM INTO NON-VIOLATING, VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATIONS? ISN’T THAT WORTH CONSIDERING SERIOUSLY TO YOU? IF NOT, PLEASE GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO EXPLORE AND STRATEGIZE A PROCESS THAT WILL TRULY CARE FOR PEOPLE IN THE PROCESS, USING THE BEST OF THE PROGRESSIVE AND CONSERVATIVE WORLD VIEWS BUT ULTIMATELY TRANSCENDING THEM TO A PRINCIPLE-BASED NEW PARADIGM OF HUMAN INTERACTION AND ORGANIZATION.

    I TRULY HOPE YOU WILL TRY TO ANSWER THESE TWO QUESTIONS SINCERELY AS I BELIEVE OUR RESPONSES TO THEM, AND OUR ABILITY TO CREATE SOLUTIONS TOGETHER WILL DETERMINE THE SURVIVAL AND THRIVAL OF OUR SPECIES.
    Problem: government corruption.
    Real solution: Meaningful campaign finance reform; eliminate (or at least reduce) corporate/business influence in politics; punish wrongdoers; elect honest candidates.
    FG – FULLY AGREED…ALL GOOD…WE LIST CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM AMONG THE TOP 10 RECOMMENDED ACTIONS. BUT WHEN THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WERE AGAINST THE IRAQ WAR, THE AFGHANISTAN WAR, THE BAILOUTS, THE PATRIOT ACT, THE NDAA ETC. AND THEY GO AHEAD ANYWAY…AND THEN OBAMA DICTATES WITH HIS EXECUTIVE ORDER SIGNED MARCH 16 THAT HE CAN TAKE OVER ALL RESOURCES, INDUSTRY, LABOR ETC AND RE-INSTITUTE THE DRAFT – JUST BY DECLARING A NATIONAL EMERGENCY -…. MAYBE THERE IS MORE TO THIS PICTURE THAN CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM CAN ACCOMPLISH ON ITS OWN. THE PURPOSE OF OUR FOLLOW THE MONEY PYRAMID ON THE WEBSITE
    http://www.thrivemovement.com/followthemoneypyramid
    IS TO SHOW THAT THERE ARE AT LEAST 5 LEVELS OF CONTROL ABOVE THE SO-CALLED “GOVERNMENT.” THAT IS WHY THRIVE SOLUTION STRATEGIES ENGAGE AT ALL THE LEVELS.
    AND THAT IS WHY WE WANT TO ENVISION AND WORK TOWARD A WAY OF LIFE THAT TRANSCENDS INVOLUTARY GOVERNMENT SYSTEMS THAT RELY ON INVOLUTARY TAXES – COERCION- AND BEGIN THE DISMANTLING OF THOSE CORRUPT SYSTEMS. IF WE HAD THE MONEY THAT WE NOW PAY IN INTERST TO THE CORRUPT PRIVATELY OWNED FEDERAL RESERVE AND CUT THE PENTAGON BUDGET IN HALF, WE COULD AFFORD TO DECIDE FOR OURSELVES HOW TO CARE FOR OURSELVES AND EACH OTHER. WE WOULD HAVE THE MONEY NEEDED TO RESTORE THIS PLANET AND CARE FOR PEOPLE.
    WE BELIEVE THAT WHEN PEOPLE HAVE WHAT THEY NEED, THEY WILL BE RESPONSIBLE AND COMPASSIONATE. AND WE DO NOT SUGGEST TAKING AWAY GOVERNMENT SUPPORT UNTIL PEOPLE HAVE THE RESOURCES- WHICH IS WHY YOU AND WE BOTH CONSIDER CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM AND HONEST VOTING AND UNDOING CORPORATE PERSONHOOD TO BE SO VITAL.
    WHY NOT ENGAGE IN HOW TO BE SURE PEOPLE ARE CARED FOR (AS WE ADDRESS IN STAGE 1) AND ENGAGE IN A THOUGHTFUL EXPLORATION WITH US? WHAT IF THERE WERE RULES PROTECTING EVERYONE’S HUMAN RIGHTS, CONTRACTS, PROPERTY ETC. BUT NO RULERS WITH AGGREGATED RIGHTS TO TAKE MONEY, WAGE WAR, BAIL OUT CRONIES ETC.? REMEMBER THE “NATION STATE” IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE VIOLENCE AGAINST ITS OWN PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER ENTITY IN HISTORY.
    Thrive solution: All corruption is the fault of the “Global Domination Elite.” Rise up against them and destroy them, and everything will be fine.
    FG – OF COURSE IT IS NOT “ALL CORRUPTION.” BUT THE BIGGEST AND MEANEST TRACES BACK TO THEM TIME AFTER TIME. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WITH ENOUGH POWER IN PLACE TO BE SO VASTLY CRUEL. “DESTROY THEM?” I NEVER SAID THAT AND NO ONE CAN FIND A PLACE WHERE WE HAVE EVER SUGGESTED THAT. OBSOLETE THEM? ABSOLUTELY! AND SOME TRUTH, RECONCILIATION, RESTORATION AND PROSECUTION TO GO WITH IT!
    Problem: disease in the developing world.
    Real solution: Develop medical technology and healthy vaccines, and put social and political institutions in place to distribute medical care to as many people as possible.
    Thrive solution: Vaccines are evil tools of the “Global Domination Elite” and should be banned.
    FG – I NEVER SAID ALL VACCINES ARE EVIL TOOLS. I SAID MANY VACCINES ARE DANGEROUS AND THEY HAVE ALSO OFTEN BEEN USED TO HIDE TOXINS AND ENDOCRINE DISRUPTORS, LIKE MERCURY, SQUALENE AND MORE, AND USED TO SICKEN OR STERILIZE COVERTLY. THIS IS FULLY DOCUMENTED ON OUR SITE. PLEASE DO YOUR HOMEWORK IF YOU ARE GOING TO SPEAK PUBLICLY AT SUCH A CRITICAL AND DANGEROUS TIME.
    Problem: anthropogenic global warming.
    Real solution: Massive worldwide mobilization by governments and business interests to develop clean technology as rapidly as possible, reduce carbon emissions and mitigate areas impacted by global warming disasters. International cooperation on political, economic, and scientific levels.
    FG – AH…DEVELOP CLEAN TECHNOLOGY! AND IN ADDITION TO THE SOLAR, WIND AND GEO THERMAL (ALL GREAT – MY HOME RUNS ON SOLAR – BUT EACH TAKES SUBSTANTIAL RESOURCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE TO BUILD AND OPERATE). WHAT IF DEVICES HARMONIOUSLY TAPPING THE LIFE FORCE – RATHER THAN RADIATION – ALREADY EXIST AND ARE BEING REPRESSED AS COUNTLESS EYE WITNESSES AND COURT CASES AND GAG ORDERS ATTEST? WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN THAT? IF IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ON, THAT’S FINE- BUT WE DO. WHY IS IT EITHER/OR? ISN’T THIS THE BLACK AND WHITE THINKING YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OF?
    Thrive solution: The problem does not exist. Global warming is a hoax, a sham and a conspiracy by the “Global Domination Elite.”
    FG – THIS IS AN UTTERLY FALSE CLAIM. WE DO NOT BELIEVE AND HAVE NEVER SAID THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX. WE SAID AND DO BELIEVE THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS USED AS AN EXCUSE FOR THE GLOBAL TAX. NOTE THE DISTINCTION. THAT THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING IS NOT IN QUESTION- IT’S WHAT IS CAUSING IT, WHAT SHOULD COMMUNITIES BE DONG TO PREPARE, AND HOW CAN WE STOP IT FROM BEING USED TO CONVINCE GOOD PEOPLE TO SUPPORT A TAX TO FUND THEIR OWN DEMISE.
    GLACIERS DON’T MELT ON THEIR OWN. AND WE NEED TO STOP POLLUTING OUR ATMOSPHERE – AS THE ALTERNATIVE ENERGY DEVICES WOULD ACCOMPLISH FASTER THAN ANYTHING. (ALONG WITH PROSECUTING THE INDIVIDUALS RUNNING THE CORPORATIONS WHO ARE DOING IT.)
    I AM ASTONISHED THAT JUST QUESTIONING IF THE SUN IS PLAYING A ROLE IN THE WARMING AND WANTING TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE ON THE SUBJECT HAS HAD YOU AND OTHERS WRITE US OFF AS CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS. THIS IS A CRITICAL ISSUE AND SOME DISCTINCTION HERE WOULD GO A LONG WAY. CLEARLY PEOPLE NEED TO STOP POLLUTING. OUR WORK WITH FREE ENERGY IS IN PART TO HELP IN THIS REGARD.
    BUT IT IS A FACT THAT THERE ARE OTHER PLANETS IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM WHICH ARE WARMING ALSO, AND I DON’T THINK IT’S OUR CARS AND FACTORIES THAT ARE DOING THAT. WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT THE INTERFACE OF HUMAN AND COSMIC FORCES WITH REGARD TO OUR PLANET’S CLIMATE. FOR REAL SELF-DEFENSE…AN ACCURATE AND THOROUGH ASSESSMENT OF REALITY MUST COME FIRST…NOT PARTY POLITICS OR CLAIMING ALL SICIENTISTS AGREE WHEN AT LEAST 31,000 CREDIBLE SCIENTISTS, MANY FORMER AGW ADVOCATES HAVE COME OUT AGAINST THE THEORY THAT HUMANS ARE THE SOLE CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE.
    NO MATTER WHAT THE CAUSE, IT IS HAPPENING, AND WE NEED TO STOP HUMAN-CAUSED POLLUTION – BUT NOT BY LETTING THE CORPORATIONS AND THE RICH BUY THEIR WAY OUT AND THEN TAX PEOPLE TO CREATE THEIR GLOBAL POLICE STATE!
    I AM AFRAID THAT IF WE STAND AROUND BICKERING WE MISS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR COMMUNITIES AROUND THE WORLD TO PREPARE ADEQUATELY FOR CLIMATE CHANGE THAT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO BE AVERTED BECAUSE EITHER 1. IT IS CAUSED BY WHERE WE ARE IN OUR CURRENT ORBIT IN RELATION TO THE SUN OR 2. CARBON TAX AND OTHER INNANE RESPONSES ARE INADEQUATE TO MEET THE CHALLENGE IN TIME. IN EITHER CASE, WE NEED TO BE STRATEGIZING TOGETHER AND SUPPORTING THE INVENTORS WHO ARE DEVELOPING THE NEW TECHNOLOGIES- LIKE FREE ENERGY- THAT CAN TRULY IMPACT THIS IN THE SHORT TERM.
    I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET A SINGLE PERSON WHO IS IRREVOCABLY IDENTIFIED WITH A PARTICULAR POLITICAL PARTY TO ENTER INTO A MEANINGFUL DEBATE ABOUT ALL OF THIS…STARTING WITH SERIOUS RESEARCH FROM ALL PERSPECTIVES AND ADDRESSING AT LEAST THESE QUESTIONS:
    What is causing other planets in our solar system to warm at the same time as our planet?
    What caused the medieval warming period?
    Why can’t polluters be prosecuted directly instead of letting the corporations buy their way out of responsibility with cap and trade?
    Are you aware of the plan to make carbon credits the new “one-world currency”?
    Why doesn’t someone like Al Gore debate someone like Bjorn Lomborg or anyone publicly?
    Why does Gore not mention that in his hockey stick graph the rise in temperature precedes the CO2 instead of vice versa? Since this was pointed out he refuses to discuss it.
    Is it possible that the good intentions of environmentalists are being manipulated to create a global tax paid to the world bank that would transcend national sovereignty and fund the one-world government?

    FG – WHAT INTERESTS ME IS AN OPEN, HUMBLE EXPLORATION OF THIS CRITICAL AND VAST ISSUE.

    Do you see how this works? This is why Thrive is worth speaking out against.
    FG – YES, I HOPE THIS IS BEING HELPFUL FOR YOUR READERS IN SEEING HOW THIS WORKS, WHAT THRIVE IS REALLY ALL ABOUT AND WHY I AM TAKING THE TIME TO ADDRESS SOME OF YOUR CARELESS MISREPRESENTATION.
    One Last Example: the HAARP Earthquake Machine.
    A totally shocking detail included in Mr. Robbins’s letter is his statement of Foster Gamble’s statements about the Fukushima earthquake and tsunami which devastated Japan early last year. Mr. Robbins says, “He has said that “they” have a machine in Alaska that enables them to create earthquakes at will, anywhere on earth, and of any desired strength.”
    This is a very old conspiracy theory called HAARP. You can read a debunking of HAARP conspiracy theories from noted skeptic Brian Dunning here. It’s one of the stupidest, most irrational and most paranoid conspiracy theories out there, but many people, unfortunately, believe it. I didn’t know until I saw Mr. Robbins’s letter that Foster Gamble has expressed belief in HAARP, but it doesn’t surprise me. It’s also a perfect illustration of how conspiracy theories, once they get inside a person’s head, can totally corrode their ability to think rationally about world problems.
    If people who believed in HAARP had any significant positions of power, what sort of world would we have? An earthquake and tsunami in Japan, caused by tectonic stresses and geologic processes, would be interpreted through the lens of this conspiracy theory as a man-made act of war, quite naturally inviting some sort of retaliation or response. If Foster Gamble could identify a specific individual or groups of individuals that he thought caused the Fukushima disaster, I would venture a guess that he would want those individuals to be held accountable in some way. This is in the total absence of any evidence whatsoever that an earthquake and tsunami in Japan was caused by HAARP.
    Can you see how dangerous this type of thinking is? Furthermore, does the fact that this sort of thinking is on the rise scare you as much as it scares me?
    FG – THIS IS A GOOD ONE TO END ON BECAUSE IT EXPOSES SO CLEARLY THE LACK OF RESEARCH THAT YOU DO, OR WORSE, THE AGENDA THAT YOU MAY HAVE. HAARP IS NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY OR A BELIEF. IT IS A GOVERNMENT / CORPORATE OWNED ANTENNA ARRAY IN ALASKA – THE LARGEST OF ITS KIND IN THE WORLD.
    HAARP CAN FOCUS 3.6 BILLION WATTS OF RADIO-FREQUENCY ENERGY INTO A SINGLE AREA OF THE ATMOSPHERE. WE NEVER SAID WE THOUGHT HAARP WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR JAPAN’S QUAKE. IN FACT, WHAT WE SAID IS THAT WE CHECK INTO MAJOR EARTHQUAKES NOW THAT WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH HAARP’S INVOLVEMENT IN CAUSING OTHER QUAKES. WE CURRENTLY HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF HAARP CAUSING JAPAN’S EARTHQUAKE, HOWEVER, THERE IS AMPLE EVIDENCE OF HAARP INVOLVEMENT IN BOTH THE CHILE AND HAITI QUAKES.

    BOTH THE CHILE AND HAITI QUAKES IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED MAXIMUM CHARGING OF THE HAARP ANTENNA – WHICH WAS CUT OFF JUST AS THE QUAKES STARTED. IN THE CASE OF HAITI, THE US JUST HAPPENED TO HAVE 10,000 TROOPS AT THE SOUTHERN TIP OF FLORIDA WHO MOVED QUICKLY TO TAKE OVER THE HAITIAN CAPITOL AIRPORT. CLINTON AND BUSH SR. TOOK OVER THE RELIEF EFFORT, WHICH HAS DONE LITTLE. MEANWHILE, THE GOLD AND OIL DISCOVERED IN A RECENT RESOURCE ASSESSMENT BY PRESIDENT ARISTEDE BEFORE HE WAS OUSTED IN A CIA-BACKED COUP, ARE NOW LOOKING LIKE THEY WILL END UP IN THE COFFERS OF THE NORTHERN ELITE. THERE ARE MANY PICTURES, PATENTS, VIDEOS, BOOKS, CONTRACTS ETC. WHICH PROVE HAARP’S EXISTENCE – MANY OF WHICH ARE AVAILABLE HERE ON THE THRIVE WEBSITE: http://WWW.THRIVEMOVEMENT.COM/HUMAN-GEO-ENGINEERING-CHEMTRAILS-AND-HAARP.
    WE SPENT A DECADE DOING ALL OF THIS TO SAVE LIVES AND TO SAVE PEOPLE TIME. WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO USE IT.

    PERHAPS THEN WE CAN GET ON WITH AN INFORMED AND RESPECTFUL DIALOG THAT CAN REALLY HELP GENERATE EFFECTIVE SOLUTIONS FOR THRIVING.

    • anticultist says :

      ALL CAPS RANT …..TOO LONG DIDN’T READ.

    • anticultist says :

      OK here goes, I will try and pick the above posters garbage apart piece by piece.

      “I was told before launching THRIVE that I would know we were having significant impact when debunkers started devoting entire websites to negative-only commentary. So I guess I should thank you for fulfilling that role.”

      How self concieted can you get ? you believe because a person makes a debunking website that automatically validates your content ? Are you just pretending to be delusional or does it come naturally to you ?

      Perhaps you are just being evasive and avoiding dealing with the fact your movies content is utterly superficial and meaningless, as well as being devoid of factual content.

      “You claim there are no real conspiracies – despite vast documentation and court cases. ”

      No he claims there are no conspiracy theories, IE made up crap on the internet about alien visitations, government cover ups of 911, false flag crap and other such paranoid coockoo stuff.
      Try looking up the difference between a vindicated conspiracy and a conspiracy theory, the two are completely separate.

      Likewise just because a thing such as Watergate occurred does not prove any other conspiratorial claim without evidence that proves it to be so.

      Making a claim it happened once therefore it happens all the time, and that makes you correct is utterly preposterous.

      “You state there are no real zero point energy devices – despite a huge number of eyewitnesses, gag orders, court cases etc.”

      Eye witnesses count for absolutely nothing without hard solid evidence pointing to their claims being real.

      You can’t try someone on a murder on the claim of an eye witness without any further solid evidence, let a lone without a body !!

      “You write off the possibility of contact with UFOs / ET – despite thousands of credible reports, hundreds of hours of footage, over 500 high level military, government, pilot and FAA accounts, and other country’s formal acknowledgement of UFO’s. ”

      UFO’s are exactly that. Unidentified flying Objects…going from there to this meaning aliens from the planet Draco are visiting us and messing with our livestock and rectums is yet another delusional leap of faith you make.

      No-one debates that UFO’s occur around the world every year, what they are is another matter, the very fact they are unidentified should give you a clue. Allow me to be the first to make sure you can’t label something identified when even the people who see them and experts can’t identify them.

      “You seem to think there is not any chance we could actually thrive with freedom for EVERYONE.”

      Where does he say this anywhere in his blogs ? If you can quote it and point to a source then you may have a point, but as far as I am aware this statement is just a straw-man to make it seem you have a moral superiority on the matter and that muertos is an uncaring individual. You are completely incorrect and out of line.

    • anticultist says :

      “If our predicament on this planet is the result of coincidence and incompetence, why do you hide your true identity? You claim to be afraid of repercussions from actually taking a transparent stand – Afraid of whom? What integrity is there is hiding and then deliberately trying to thwart the efforts of those who would transparently stand for our values, for deeper truths and for new paradigm solutions? I believe such cowardice and shortsightedness feed into the much more dangerous looming police state that you end up supporting through your denial.
      If there is no destructive conspiracy to be concerned about and if you are sincere, why not just post your real name, picture, bio and affiliations?
      I highly recommend that you take a fraction of the vast amount of time you put into creating only negative and baseless smears against THRIVE and actually do some real investigation so that we can engage in an informed dialog that will add something of value in these perilous times.”

      This whole paragraph is a plea to make muertos tell you and the rest of the crazies you have as fans who he is. Then you go on to elucidate that he is part of the problem of some “police state conspiracy”, well I didn’t see any police knocking on my door when I was a conspiracy theorist and out uncovering the crap i believed.

      Likewise muertos was a conspiracy theorist for a large portion of his life and neither did he encounter any police state officials or government psy ops in his life when he was. In fact the only thing that changes when you stop believing in conspiracy theories is your state of mind. The very fact you are paranoid about ‘them’ out to get you and ruin the world just makes you a comical footnote of the internet rather than a serious scholar.

      You have the nerve to assert that muertos should do some research to get to the level you are currently at, but don’t stop to consider that muertos was at the level you are at decades ago and has since outgrown such childish conjecture. Your arrogance precedes your good intentions and makes you completely unlikable.

    • anticultist says :

      “I HAVEN’T YET MET A PERSON WHO BELIEVES THEY RIGGED THE ECONOMIC SYSTEM TO SCREW THEMSELVES.”

      You haven’t talked to the wall street crooks who sold and bought invisible and toxic assets just to make money you mean ?

      In other words everyday folk who knew they were conducting dubious transactions, but like anyone else they wanted, perhaps needed to make money the only way they know how to.

      You make this out to be some kind of devious pre planned networked scheme of some higher order echelon of moguls. The fact of the matter is quite the reverse though, the housing market, and banking markets crashed because of an untethered buying/spending spree by everyday people on the markets. This includes wall street bankers, owners and also folks buying houses and mortgages they knowingly could not afford to do so.

      The very notion you consider this to be some pre planned control method of illions by a few is quite literally comical.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        Note Hanlon’s Razor, which is that ignorance is more likely than malice as a motive.

    • anticultist says :

      “AND IF THERE WERE “FREE ENERGY” DEVICES ALREADY DEVELOPED BY CURRENT INVENTORS IN VARIOUS COUNTRIES (WHICH I HAVE SEEN), WOULD YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THEM? ”

      Firstly seeing a machine on a table in a little black box, and having someone tell you it is a free energy device that makes energy from nothing and produces more than is put into it is not quite the same as understanding the principles and being able to scientifically explain and validate it.

      You say you saw something, wonderful !!! Now prove what you say is true otherwise your claim goes into the unbelievable bin with big foot and the rest of the crazy claims made.

      Once again you suppose that doubting the claims is an indicator of the persons intent to ruin the planet. Again loathsome of you. If such mechanisms truly existed and were proven to be true who in their right mind would be against them ? Other than of course those whose livelihoods were threatened, but those would be a few minor shareholders who would be of little consequence to the overwhelming movement of people who would utilise them everyday.

      No you need to quit asking such irrelevant and nonsense questions, and instead of playing the moral superiority cards, you need to prove your claims are factual and evidenced. Until you can do this, all your moral tinkering about how you want what is best for the world and we should to is just the plea of a child.

      “AND DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOVERNMENT DOES ALL THESE RAIDS, GAG ORDERS, INTIMIDATIONS AND EVEN ASSASSINATIONS ON HOAXERS?
      THERE IS HUGE EVIDENCE THAT THEY RECOGNIZE THE REAL INVENTORS BECAUSE THEY HAVE THESE TECHNOLOGIES THEMSELVES. WE HAVE SEEN DEVICES THAT PRODUCE MORE ENERGY THAN THEY USE- THAT IS A FACT. GIVEN THE REALITY OF THIS TECHNOLOGY, AND THE TREMENDOUS POTENTIAL IT HAS FOR RESTRUCTURING THE POWER DYNAMIC ON THE PLANET, HEALING LIVES, CLEANING WATER, RESTORING THE ENVIRONMENT, AND SO MUCH MORE THAT WE MUTUALLY WANT, WHY DO YOU CHOOSE TO PROMOTE SUCH AN UNIFORMED AND CYNICAL RESPONSE?”

      Evidence your claims that such gag orders are indicative of an actual fully functional machine, prove to the readers here your knowledge of the inner workings of these gag orders. Show us what technology was abandoned by their makers because of gag orders. Then go on to prove the technological feasibility of these claims.

      Again your words are empty and are filled with moral rhetoric.

      “WHY NOT CONSIDER SERIOUSLY THE SENSE IT MAKES THAT AN OIL ECONOMY WOULD DENY THE EXISTENCE OF TECHNOLOGY THAT WOULD OBSOLETE THE OIL ECONOMY? YOU SIMPLY LEAVE YOURSELF OUT OF MORE MEANINGFUL AND FRUITFUL DIALOG BY SHOWING NOT JUST YOUR LACK OF RESEARCH, BUT YOUR LACK OF INSIGHT.”

      How about you evidence what you believe to be true, get your evidence and scientific researchers and physics experts up on your website showing the world all this wonderful life saving technology.

      Of course you can’t because all you have are some rhetorical notions that everyone who somehow invents these machines are silenced, gagged, court ordered, eliminated, paid off by the government and business owners. This just leads the reader to see that all you have are empty claims and you expect us to believe you on your words alone.

      If you had any sense of urgency and dignity about you, you would add credence to your claims and provide us with this much needed technology and help the world, instead of posting how morally proper you are on the internet.

      Actions speak louder than words, put up or shut up.

      • stratoblaster says :

        I too would love to see these plans come to light, I want one in my back yard….. what is the holdup? If anybody has a device that works, share it. pretty please.

        This would all go a lot easier, things would change fast and we’d have better newer things to argue about.

        Gamble, tell your guys to get on with it.
        Release the tech. Publish it in every language, I’ll pitch in to pay for it.

        We’ll circle the wagons and protect ‘em en masse from Cheney and the Rothschilds…. and Blackwater….and Directed Energy Weapons,

        and the lizards.

      • anticultist says :

        nutter ^

      • Mr. Anon says :

        I’ve made a free energy device, right here at home. I can get a bunch of people, some of which are physicists and engeneers to confirm it. One thing though – I can’t show it. The reason is simple, if I show it to the world, then “they” will snatch it. How do I know? I build these devices before, and each time the device was snatched by “them”. I can’t show you a video of it working, because then “they” would stop me. For some reason though, I can publicly reveal my device online and not face the same threat.

      • muertos says :

        Of course! It’s made from tinfoil and a couple of 2x4s!

      • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

        You forgot the duct tape.

    • anticultist says :

      “WHAT IF DEVICES HARMONIOUSLY TAPPING THE LIFE FORCE – RATHER THAN RADIATION – ALREADY EXIST AND ARE BEING REPRESSED AS COUNTLESS EYE WITNESSES AND COURT CASES AND GAG ORDERS ATTEST? WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN THAT? IF IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ON, THAT’S FINE- BUT WE DO. WHY IS IT EITHER/OR? ISN’T THIS THE BLACK AND WHITE THINKING YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OF?”

      What if the claims were all false and made up and there was no evidence to back them up ?

      Can you ascertain the level of credibility needed to validate your claims and the claims of the people you are supporting ?

      • Mr. Anon says :

        What if I had a button that could instantly fix everything wrong with the world. As with my free energy devices, I have people that can testify for this button. Send me money and I’ll press it! What, deny that I have a button? Wake up, blind disinformation agent!

    • anticultist says :

      “I AM ASTONISHED THAT JUST QUESTIONING IF THE SUN IS PLAYING A ROLE IN THE WARMING AND WANTING TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE ON THE SUBJECT HAS HAD YOU AND OTHERS WRITE US OFF AS CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS. ”

      Because the evidence is already on the table that global warming is anthropogenic, It is only the likes of climate skeptics and folks ignorant to science who are questioning the source.

      “THAT THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING IS NOT IN QUESTION- IT’S WHAT IS CAUSING IT”

      Spoken in the same mannerism as a climate skeptic or someone clueless to the science behind anthropogenic climate change. And you wonder why people consider your views to be that of a climate skeptic when you question the authenticity of the evidence already in place ?

      Have you even studied it and actually understood it ? Or are you just counting on some website like above top secret to inform you of your world views again ?

      “BUT IT IS A FACT THAT THERE ARE OTHER PLANETS IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM WHICH ARE WARMING ALSO, AND I DON’T THINK IT’S OUR CARS AND FACTORIES THAT ARE DOING THAT. ”

      Which planets in our solar system are warming up ?

      What is causing the warming process ?

      If this is shown to be the suns radiation, does that planet have a climate system that interacts with the solar radiation in the same dynamics our does ?

      You can’t just throw something like that out and expect it to validate your claims.

      Once again you sound like a climate skeptic throwing these claims out that are intended to cast doubt upon anthropogenic climate change.
      Once again you wonder why people assume you are a climate skeptic

      “OR CLAIMING ALL SICIENTISTS AGREE WHEN AT LEAST 31,000 CREDIBLE SCIENTISTS, MANY FORMER AGW ADVOCATES HAVE COME OUT AGAINST THE THEORY THAT HUMANS ARE THE SOLE CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE.”

      Actually this is another spurious claim you make, there are not 31,00 climate scientists on record against it. This is totally fabricated, there may be 31,000 people who are on record about it. I can literally guarantee you that the majority of those have no authorship or credibility in the field of climate science.
      Yet again your throw out an aversion to anthropogenic climate change and wonder why you are being called a climate change skeptic.

    • anticultist says :

      “WHAT WE SAID IS THAT WE CHECK INTO MAJOR EARTHQUAKES NOW THAT WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH HAARP’S INVOLVEMENT IN CAUSING OTHER QUAKES. WE CURRENTLY HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF HAARP CAUSING JAPAN’S EARTHQUAKE, HOWEVER, THERE IS AMPLE EVIDENCE OF HAARP INVOLVEMENT IN BOTH THE CHILE AND HAITI QUAKES.”

      Yet again you just sound like another internet crank who thinks a scientific research laboratory up in Alaska is some covert military coup to suppress nations of the planet with weather modification.

      If such a thing existed and it doesn’t, you would have evidence for the technology behind it, how it worked and who was responsible for such despicable crimes.

      Yet here we are talking about some scientific research lab that does exist, and you are making bold assertions of its abuse of the planet and the people on it. I fail to see why we should take this claim seriously,

      Have you stopped to consider that there is no incidence of HAARP being used on a place on the planet where earthquakes are impossible to happen due to no fault lines ?

      I mean anyone with a sense of critical thinking could silence you with just a few questions of evidence for your claims.

      • anticultist says :

        Thermodynamic systems
        Open system – Exchanges both matter and energy with its surroundings
        Closed system – Exchanges energy, but not matter, with its surroundings
        Isolated system – Exchanges neither energy nor matter with its surroundings
        The universe is an isolated system since it is a term to describe the entire space-time continuum, including all of the energy stored in it. In reality, the universe is regarded as the only true isolated system, as perfect isolation on a smaller scale is impossible. The Earth can be viewed as approximately a closed system, although it is open in reality.

        Try again

    • stratoblaster says :

      Thank you Foster for taking the time, I’ve been bouncing around here poking holes in the attempted debunks, and I’ll I get is attitude and vitriol. There is a population who wont address my detailed questions directly, but instead resort to personal attack.

      for those interested in other responses to critique of the film there is a dialog:

      http://www.thrivemovement.com/public-dialogue-between-thrive-movie-filmmakers-and-pioneers

      i.e.
      from:
      http://www.thrivemovement.com/foster-gamble-responds-to-thrive-critiques.blog

      Though Charles writes in his book that “free energy technologies have been in existence for at least a century,” (SE, p.443), in his THRIVE review he contradicts himself by taking a swipe at our credibility in saying, “I won’t consider here the scientific plausibility of such technology, which appears to violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics.”
      Let me clarify that first, a toroidal technology, like an atom, a human or a galaxy is an open system and the 2nd Law applies to closed systems. It’s not the motion of the machine which is perpetual, (all matter wears down) it’s the source of energy! Second, what is the explanation for the fact that these inventors are getting raided, shut down, threatened and sometimes killed if they are actually all charlatans? It’s documented that the US Government has denied and confiscated over 3000 patent applications for alternative energy devices. Doesn’t it make sense that they might actually know something about how and which devices actually work?

      debunkers: when attacking the concept of better clean energy systems, keep this detail (2nd law applies to closed systems) in mind, please. We all want clean power, lets help that cause by being accurate.

      Muertos, where are you?
      Did you read Fosters reply to your critique?

      With this film, he’s encouraging you to participate in the literal renewal of our time here together on earth. A renaissance, a large order. He’s offered real techniques and solutions. I’m currently in the process of closing my BofA account. I don’t get flu shots…:) I’m buying gold and silver….. Making sure I know how to grow heirloom veggies. bugging you…..:)

      What are you doing?
      What are your better solutions if the Gambles have done so much harm to the truth with their film?

      The above reply is thorough and patient, to Gambles credit. His motives appear clear.

      Yours ?
      Im wondering

      • anticultist says :

        Comment above this one deals with your claims of snd law applications to open systems.

      • Frankie says :

        Hahahahaja! what a bunch of retarded shit! This is so comical.. !! hahahaha! dont make me laugh you nutbag! Get some real science book and get to study! that way you will learn real science!
        Seriously people, stop wasting time with conspiratard shit that doesnt take us anywhere. Conspiracy theories are a joke, a sham, woo..
        Its just so annoying that no matter how hard we try to debunk this bullshit, it just comes back.
        its like Majin Boo, no matter how much you hurt him, he comes back to attack! its the same with the conspiratards! They should be called Majin Woo… hahahaha!

    • stratoblaster says :

      I humbly request that plans for working torus energy devices be published asap. Do it world wide on the web, in multiple languages, all at once.

      Publish the plans
      Now
      Please

  13. anticultist says :

    “HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THESE “33 CONSPIRACIES THAT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE?”

    It’s called evidence Foster, you should try it out some day. Without evidence no corruption is ever uncovered, and corruption is something that happens all the time.

    Major world ruining conspiracies on the other hand are the stuff of legend and not once has anyone provided evidence that has uncovered a single one.

    By the way linking to one of the most conspiratorial joke websites on the internet for your source just shows how incredulous and gullible you are. If you were a true researcher you would have linked to scholarly articles identifying historical cases of corruption and how it was uncovered.
    This alone shows how base your level of research actually is, and notifies the reader that you just trawl the internet like any other cretin. You then have the nerve to make yourself into a pseudo expert because you have the money and networking to put yourself into the spotlight.

    Allow me to be the first of many to burst your bubble, you are clearly no expert, your opinion is as worthless as the other nutters who post on above top secret, and this blog.

    • stratoblaster says :

      I have evidence of a world running conspiracy for you anticultist:

      Bush/Cheney

      they made a helluva mess, were not Constitutionally elected….

      or is that coincidence?

      • anticultist says :

        They didn’t run the world, nor did they take over it. They messed up diplomatic relations for the USA,and conducted themselves poorly in politics and war.

        Still waiting on the proof for a nefarious illuminatti world domination plan.

      • stratoblaster says :

        I wonder how exactly did they gain access to make such a mess? How was a baffoon screw up like bush able to take office when not elected?

        Strings got pulled, this was not arbitrary, yes perhaps not world controlling (they have not achieved that yet hopefully, but appear to be trying, aggressively). I don’t think there’s a nefarious illuminatti, and I don’t recall Gamble saying that (he clearly lists the banks, corporations, and families he’s talking about). I think there’s some very rich people consolidating wealth and power/influence. We are letting them.

        For example, and forgive my very general explanation here….we pay off interest with our income taxes to the Federal Reserve which printed $ backed by our national treasure, which it (a private entity) confiscated to pay off interest on money it previously printed and lent to us, which was already ours (because we had national treasure (gold) to back it up until shady bankers (jp morgan et all) forced us off the gold standard..aaaaah….

        my explanation is rough I know, but this is why we need to be having this conversation that Gamble has made the effort to initiate, along with lots of other fallible but well intended folks. Let’s concentrate on what connects us all here. We’re being played by a very small group of rich kids.

        My point on Bush, is that it was a plan, initiated by the very “influential” to put him (Cheney, actually) in power. America certainly didn’t vote him in, twice.

        What we call them is irrelevant. What we do about it is crucial.

      • anticultist says :

        You clearly know nothing about how the banking system was set up or how it actually operates in the real world. Besides your monster on jeckyll island fantasies and your blame of the worlds situations on a few Jewish families, it is apparent that your limited worldview is obscuring your attention to the facts.

        If you really want to try and understand a fe details on how the banking system actually works read this: https://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/follow-the-money-debunked/

        And if you think the gold standard is the way forward, then allow me to point out that there is clearly not enough gold in America to cover all the transactions that are undertaken daily. How do you propose to resolve such a situation in your fantasy world, short of cutting back on everyone’s daily business transactions and purchases ?

        It is clear even to me, a mere amateur in the topic that your understanding of reality is way below even my own.

        Then onto your claims of political corruption and poll rigging getting Bush into office. Are you trying to insinuate that he was never voted into office at all ?
        There are questions about the whole rigging of the states votes and whether it was intentional or accidental is debatable. Although to attribute it to some nefarious plan is once again fantasy on your part. The notion that it could have been done for financial gain for certain people [assuming such corruption were true], does not indicate anything other than greed. Greed however is not a crime, neither is it illegal or punishable by law to be greedy or selfish.

        Political corruption however is punishable by law, and if you had such evidence to prove otherwise then you really ought to be lobbying for punishment instead of whining on an internet forum. That is assuming your words actually mean anything to you, or whether they just make you feel good about yourself venting on internet forums.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        Bush/Cheney was elected because of the stupid butterfly ballot. Ralph Nader also played no small part.

  14. bensteigmann says :

    On the subject of HAARP, you are mistaken. Dr. Michel Chossudovsky has noted that the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) is an operational weapon of mass destruction with the potential to be used against rogue states, with the power to alter the weather, disrupt regional electrical power systems, and modify the Earth’s magnetic field, as well as potentially trigger earthquakes and affect people’s health: http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO409F.html
    The EU Parliament, in a Report on HAARP, noted, “With its far-reaching impact on the environment HAARP is a matter of global concern and we have to ask whether its advantages really outweigh the risks. The environmental impact and the ethical aspect must be closely examined before any further research and testing takes place. HAARP is a project of which the public is almost completely unaware, and this needs to be remedied.”
    It furthermore noted the following chilling fact: “From the 1950s the USA conducted explosions of nuclear material in the Van Allen Belt to investigate the effect of the electro-magnetic pulse generated by nuclear weapon explosions at these heights on radio communications and the operation of radar. This created new magnetic radiation belts which covered nearly the whole earth. The electrons travelled along magnetic lines of force and created an artificial Aurora Borealis above the North Pole. These military tests are liable to disrupt the Van Allen belt for a long period. The earth’s magnetic field could be disrupted over large areas, which would obstruct radio communications. According to US scientists it could take hundreds of years for the Van Allen belt to return to normal. HAARP could result in changes in weather patterns. It could also influence whole ecosystems, especially in the sensitive Antarctic regions.
    Another damaging consequence of HAARP is the occurrence of holes in the ionosphere caused by the powerful radio beams. The ionosphere protects us from incoming cosmic radiation. The hope is that the holes will fill again, but our experience of change in the ozone layer points in the other direction. This means substantial holes in the ionosphere that protects us.”: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-%2F%2FEP%2F%2FTEXT+REPORT+A4-1999-0005+0+DOC+XML+V0%2F%2FEN

    You will probably attack Chossudovsky, despite the documentation in his article, as a “conspiracy theorist”, but attacking the EU Parliament is a bit more difficult.

    Regarding “global Warming”, you are wrong also. In the text “The First Global Revolution”, leading “intellectual elites” in the Club of Rome admitted that they manufactured the threat of anthropogenic global warming as a “unifying external threat” that would place the blame on humanity (and this would obviously make people sympathetic to the Globalist rhetoric of “global problems requiring global solutions”), and that appointed bureaucracies must replace any vestige of democracy as a governing force. The relevant chapter is called “The Vacuum”. Excerpts are as follows:
    “It would seem that men and women need a common motivation, namely a common adversary to organize and act together; in the vacuum such motivations seem to have ceased to exist‚ or have yet to be found.
    The need for enemies seems to be a common historical factor. States have striven to overcome domestic failure and internal contradictions by designating external enemies. The scapegoat practice is as old as mankind itself. When things become too difficult at home, divert attention by adventure abroad. Bring the divided nation together to face an outside enemy, either a real one or else one invented for the purpose. With the disappearance of the traditional enemy, the temptation is to designate as scapegoat religious or ethnic minorities whose differences are disturbing.
    [...]The old democracies have functioned reasonably well over the last 200 years, but they appear now to be in a phase of complacent stagnation with little evidence of real leadership and innovation
    Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead [so obviously the "intellectual elite" should take over decision making - as they have been doing for a very long time]. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.
    [...]The Common Enemy of Humanity is Man
    In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine, and the like would fit the bill. In their totality and interactions these phenomena do constitute a common threat which demands the solidarity of all peoples. But in designating them as the enemy, we fall into the trap about which we have already warned, namely, mistaking symptoms for causes. All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.”
    Interestingly, in the 1970s, this think tank was screaming about the threat of “global cooling” which would herald in a “new ice age”: http://www.scribd.com/doc/87504398/Goals-for-Mankind
    So – a think tank (really more of a syndicate) composed of billionaires and thought leaders admits to having been the main pusher of this propaganda for social engineering purposes, yet before it made exactly the opposite claims.
    Others caught on to this new ice age hysteria. Consider, for instance, this April 28, 1975 article from Newsweek: http://www.wmconnolley.org.uk/sci/iceage/newsweek-coolingworld.pdf
    Here’s an interesting excerpt:
    “Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve. But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality. ”
    Here’s an article from Harpers magazine in 1958 called “The Coming Ice Age”: http://www.harpers.org/archive/1958/09/0008810
    See also, the following, from Time Magazine, June 24, 1974 – “Science: Another Ice Age?”: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914,00.html
    Of course, we weren’t freezing to death, so we were led to gobble up the new scare story of anthropogenic global warming, a global problem that required a global solution, similar to the way in which, in the book 1984, people would suddenly stop war on Eurasia and begin war on East Asia, completely forgetting the previous propaganda.
    Now, of course, there are severe problems with the propaganda these characters are trying to promote, like the fact that US Navy records shows that arctic ice volume has increased 25% in last 2 years (http://tinyurl.com/3y85hyl).
    Countless scandals, like Climategate, Climategate 2.0, and actual analysis of the data itself, establish the fraudulence of the claims of AGW proponents. This is a very detailed subject, but an in depth dossier on this subject has already been written, for those who are interested (http://tinyurl.com/7tch258).
    The reasoning behind this is unsound. But there are tremendous advantages for those who want to increase their control over other people. There is a long history to this: http://tinyurl.com/7f3g9py
    Mikhail Gorbachev preached about the continuation of the authoritarian Communist system. Incidentally, the Librarian of Congress James Billington noted in his intellectual history of the revolutionary faith, “Fire in the Minds of Men”, that red was the revolutionary color of Communism, while green was the sacred color of Communism (p. 256): http://tinyurl.com/853by88
    This fits in perfectly with what Gorbachev would do after the “collapse” and convergence of the Soviet system in 1991. He founded Green Cross International, and co-wrote the Earth Charter with Maurice Strong (a collectivist document that, along with Agenda 21, came out of the initial events George Hunt exposes). He stated that the Earth Charter should replace the Ten Commandments (http://tinyurl.com/2bdejz3)
    He also stated: “The threat of environmental crisis will be the ‘international disaster key’ that will unlock the New World Order.” (http://tinyurl.com/72qtoqq)
    This of course ties into the documents from the UNCED 4th World Wilderness Congress that I obtained from George Hunt: http://www.scribd.com/doc/74349656/The-Cobden-Clubs-Papers

  15. Edem Agbotui says :

    A well crafted argument Muertos, critical discourse is essential in a world of misinformation.

    The truth is there are a lot of people who want a quick fix to the worlds problems without taking any personal accountability, if you truly look at nature and the universe at large there is actually a lot more ambiguity to it, it’s not as black and white as ‘Thrive’ would like to make you think which was my biggest bone of contention right from the the start. Most species on this planet play out a daily struggle for survival and we (humans) are no exception.

    Simply take a look at the mighty species of dinosaur that once roamed the Earth, they thrived for a while but their lack of adaptability when presented with challenges over survival ultimately lead to there downfall of many species.

    There is a tendency to conveniently playing the victim card when the realities of our unsustainable existence finally blows up in our face, looking to the heavens for some kind of answers or a savior to manifest will not help humanity, we’ve been doing that for at least the past 2000 years and nothing tangible has come of it. Maybe it’s this mindset that needs changing?

    We collectively as a species dug this hole, we’ll have to collectively climb out of it with practical solutions and yes… it may hurt a bit.

    Just because we are the the dominate species, it doesn’t make us divine.

  16. Amber says :

    I agree with the blog author’s points about why it’s important to debunk Thrive and other conspiracy theories. I would like to add something on a personal note and would appreciate comments- I have a dear friend who has gotten heavily into these types of theories and I am concerned for his mental health. I feel that this sort of thing is especially attractive to people who are emotionally or psychologically vulnerable. It’s one thing to feel a need to debunk things for the sake of society in general, (and I thank the blog author for that very much), and quite another when you are concerned for a friend who may go off the deep end in one way or another from getting too obsessed with conspiracy theories. I realize some people are simply not going to be convinced these theories are not true, unless they decide it on their own. On the other hand, I am wondering what can, in fact, be done when you care about someone who is vulnerable in this way.

  17. Mark says :

    Aliens among us …

    http://www.space.com/1810-space-aliens-mother-hallucinations.html

    Space Aliens: The ‘Mother’ Of All Hallucinations?
    by Bill Christensen
    Date: 28 November 2005

    People who claim to have been abducted by space aliens seem to invariably describe a very similar picture. Space aliens are described as having large heads, big eyes, gray skin, smooth features and small mouths.
    (Mom?)

    Psychologist Frederick Malmstrom, currently a visiting scholar at the U.S. Air Force Academy, believes that these ‘visions’ of space aliens are actually the image of the prototypical female face that is hardwired into every baby human’s brain. When Malmstrom altered a picture of a woman in a way consistent with the characteristics of a newborn’s vision (astigmatism and a shallow focal plane), the result looked very much like a big-eyed alien.

    • Mark says :

      fun fact: the first UFO “truth” group, called “NICAP” had the first director of Central Intelligence on its board. Here’s a conspiracy theory to digest — the intelligence agencies created the alien truth groups to cover up the unconventional aircraft they were actually developing in the desert. We call them “stealth” planes, today. Most of the stealth planes look remarkably saucerlike if you look at their cross section.

      • a rational person says :

        fun fact: there isnt a single shit nugget of truth to prove anything of what u just said. u conspiracy nutbags believe shit because you want to and because u’re paranoid loons who will swallow anything ur conspiratard gurus will say. “intelligence agencies created the alien truth groups…” hahaha hahahah ahahahah ahhaahhaha hahahaha! wtf do u think this is, a episode of dr. who? u conspiratards drive me to drink…jeezus christ, there is no line of shit you people won’t swallow.

      • Frankie says :

        Your brain is made of shit. You clearly cant think critically and you are a fucking stupid person with no brainpower. The second law of thermodynamics went to fast on uour brain! hahahhaa!

  18. Mike S says :

    Well, I’m glad Peter Joseph (Zeitgeist) excused himself from that movie, saying something to the effect that at the time he was into a lot of conspiracy theories, but then realized that they offered no solution and that things werent really how he thought they were. Then he made Moving Forward.

    • anticultist says :

      Still sells and promotes that shit on his websites to make money though doesn’t he, so he seems completely fine using conspiracy theories to get people to listen to him talk about other bullshit.

    • a rational person says :

      peter joseph is a nutbag and all of his zeitgest movies are crazy bullshit. the people who follow them are creepy brainless drones like zombies out of a monster flick. they scare the piss out of me

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