My Open Letter to Foster Gamble: Turn Your Back on Conspiracy—Don’t Let Thrive Define You. (UPDATED!)

This blog, originally published April 30, 2012, was updated May 4, 2012. Scroll to the end for the update.

Dear Mr. Gamble:

I have been motivated to write this letter by yours and Mrs. Gamble’s response, posted yesterday on your Thrive website, responding to John Robbins’s recent statement entitled “Humanity and Sanity: Standing for a Thriving World.” The text of that statement has been reproduced here on John Robbins’s website. I was quite interested to hear what your response would be to Mr. Robbins’s critiques. As I pointed out to the readers of my blog in a recent article, one of the main reasons why John Robbins has felt the need to dissociate himself from your film—its advancement of conspiracy theories—is the core basis of the disagreement I have with Thrive. In fact, John Robbins’s statement expresses my disagreements with you and your film in some ways better than I can myself.

Consequently, I was extremely disappointed by your response. You have not only failed to address the substantive criticisms of the film, but your dismissive and reductive attitude toward the most serious issues with Thrive makes it harder, not easier, to move forward in assessing what’s wrong with the world and how we can make it better. More troubling than that, at least for me, your response indicates that you’ve become very deeply invested in conspiracy thinking and conspiracist ideology—and you’re not doing the world any favors by trying to advance this ideology through your film.

I wish to make several major points here. Some will deal with your response to critics such as John Robbins, while some will go beyond that. I hope you take this criticism in the spirit in which it is intended—which is to help right what I see as a dreadful wrong being done, especially to the young people who’ve seen Thrive and who may choose to believe it without thinking critically about exactly what it is you’re asking them to accept.

You are not a bad person. You are an intelligent, thoughtful, well-meaning person with a very deep desire to help make the world a better place. This much has been extremely obvious from the get-go. If I met you in person I think I’d like you, and you might be surprised to find that I am considerably less nasty or trollish than some of your fans seem to think I am. But, Mr. Gamble, you’re wrong. You’re as wrong as you can possibly be, and you’re becoming part of the problem—you’re not helping us get to a solution. I’m just a blogger on the Internet. I don’t have the resources or clout at my disposal that you do, and I don’t claim to be an activist trying to save the world. But I’m not alone in my criticisms of your film; some very prominent people feel the same way I do.

What is the basis of John Robbins’s disagreement with Thrive?

In your statement, Mr. Gamble, I believe you have seriously mischaracterized the nature of John Robbins’s disagreement with your movie. Your statement yesterday, and previous statements made by you responding to critics of the film, seem to indicate that you think the main basis of disagreement is political—that the film is caught in the traditional left-right divide that you say you want to transcend. This is not the case, and it’s very clear from Mr. Robbins’s statement that this is not the case. He says:

“[T]he Thrive movie and website are filled with dark and unsubstantiated assertions about secret and profoundly malevolent conspiracies that distract us from the real work at hand.  The conspiracy theories at the heart of Thrive are based on an ultimate division between “us” and “them.”  ”We” are many and well-meaning but victimized.  “They,” on the other hand, are a tiny, greedy and inconceivably powerful few who are masterfully organized, who are purposefully causing massive disasters in order to cull the population, and who are deliberately destroying the world economy in order to achieve total world domination….If the ills of the world are the deliberate intentions of malevolent beings, then we don’t have to take responsibility for our problems because they are being done to us.  Thinking this way may provide the momentary comfort of feeling exonerated, but it is ultimately disempowering, because it undermines our desire to be accountable for the way our own thoughts and actions help to create the environmental degradation and vast social inequity of the world in which we live.”

Your response was:

“We believe this is an uninformed and dangerous interpretation that undermines people’s ability to recognize the power we have to change the dynamic.

If you feel you are personally responsible for the mortgage fraud, for the devaluation of the dollar, for the wars of aggression killing millions of innocent people with your money, for the lack of decent health care, and for the lies of the corporate media, then what THRIVE offers is not for you. If you instead believe that we have been deceived and deprived of our power and feel ready to reclaim it, then we encourage you to join with the millions of people empowered by THRIVE to come together in this bold time of awakened action to stand up for our lives and our future.”

This fundamental misunderstanding of John Robbins’s central argument is nothing less than tragic. John Robbins takes Thrive to task for establishing a pernicious “us vs. them” mentality, which he finds (and I agree) dangerous and counterproductive; in your response, however, you get right back up on the soapbox, point an accusing finger at the evil “them” and rage at the people you blame for “deceiv[ing us] and deprive[ing us] of our power.”

In your worldview, Mr. Gamble, bad things are done to us by evil people. Of course I can’t speak for him, but my interpretation of what John Robbins is saying is that we have done this to ourselves. There is no “Illuminati” out there trying to enslave the world. Who put the politicians into office who rolled back regulation of our economic and banking systems, thus leading to the 2008 economic collapse? We, the people did. Who supports, works for and buys the products of the corporations who are profiting from the destruction of our environment? We, the people do. Who is buying the fuel-inefficient cars that are contributing to anthropogenic global warming? We, the people, are. Who is consistently voting against property tax measures that fund schools to educate our children? We, the people, are doing that.

You want to blame a “Global Domination Elite,” or people who happen to be born with the names Rockefeller or Rothschild, for these problems. What I read from John Robbins’s letter is that, instead of looking for someone named Rothschild to blame for our problems, we should instead look in the mirror.

How is it that you don’t understand this is what he’s saying?

Do you not see what you’re doing, Mr. Gamble? You’re holding up a small group of people and telling the viewers of Thrive that they—this evil, sociopathic “other”—is responsible for their problems. You are encouraging the viewers of Thrive to hate those evil people who supposedly did this to us. This is so horrendously destructive, so antithetical to the central ideas of civil cooperation in a democratic society. But the conspiracy theories you espouse, and that you’re pushing through Thrive, reduce the complexities of our modern problems to a very simple and very cynical solution: hate them, the evil “other,” for doing this to us. As soon as the “other” is overcome, our problems will be over.

I cannot get behind this worldview. From my reading of his essay, I think it’s clear that John Robbins can’t either. Speaking only for myself, a worldview such as this is so harmful, negative, toxic and divisive that it absolutely negates the effect of what you think is the positive work you’re doing to improve society. You can do better, Mr. Gamble.

David Icke: do you believe in his “reptilian shape-shifting aliens” theories or don’t you?

Another key part of Mr. Robbins’s disagreement with the film is his objection to the presence of David Icke in Thrive. I agree. I would have to say that, if I were to make a list of the things that bother me the most about your movie, I’d probably put David Icke as #1.

You said:

“Robbins also does not feel comfortable being in a movie with David Icke, who he says “advocates utterly bizarre theories” –although none of the theories John objects to are in THRIVE. Instead, Icke provides a very sound critique of the money system: that banks have the power to create money out of nothing; that the Federal Reserve can rig “booms and busts” by lowering and raising interests rates; and that “the greatest prison people live in is the fear of what other people think.” We benefitted from this analysis, and find that millions of others feel similarly, which is why he’s included in THRIVE. We stand by what Icke says in the film.”

Mr. Gamble, I believe this is totally disingenuous.

You could have gotten any number of people to appear in your film to give a “very sound critique of the money system.” Instead, you chose to get David Icke. Why?

As I pointed out in my article profiling Mr. Icke, I believe the reason you chose David Icke to make this statement, as opposed to someone far less controversial who doesn’t bring the baggage to the table that Mr. Icke does, is because you wanted access to David Icke’s built-in audience of conspiracy believers—an audience that I think you felt, probably correctly, would be uniquely receptive to Thrive. Given the anti-Semitic flavor of David Icke’s ridiculous and untrue theories, if you had done even the slightest bit of due diligence you would have seen that Mr. Icke is absolutely radioactive from a public relations and credibility standpoint. Don’t get me wrong—I think you knew full well what baggage David Icke carries—but you elected to put him in your film anyway. So, my question is, why?

More importantly, if you’re willing to make a distinction between the “very sound critique of the monetary system” (which isn’t that sound, by the way) that David Icke espouses in your film, and his bizarre theories about reptilian shape-shifting aliens from Draco which he does not espouse in your film, are you willing to go on record as repudiating that very significant portion of David Icke’s belief system? You say it’s unfair of Thrive’s critics to taint you with the extremities of Mr. Icke’s belief system—if that’s the case, will you denounce the beliefs of Mr. Icke that have given John Robbins, and me, and many others, so much consternation?

Are you willing to state, Mr. Gamble, unequivocally and without qualification, that you reject the “reptilian shape-shifting aliens” theories of David Icke, that you dissociate yourself from them, and that you denounce them for the harmful paranoid conspiracy theories that they are?

Don’t just stand on the disclaimer that you’re fond of quoting from Thrive. Tell your audience clearly and without equivocation what you think of David Icke’s reptilian theories. Do you believe them or don’t you?

If you’re willing to make this statement, I think it may help clear the air. If you are not willing to make this statement, would you please tell us (A) what your views are on Mr. Icke’s reptilian shape-shifting aliens theories, and (B) why you included him in your film, when any number of others could have made the same statements about banking that he makes in your film?

What about Eustace Mullins?

In your statement, Mr. Gamble, you breeze casually past the objections to G. Edward Griffin by saying you don’t endorse the John Birch Society. But an even more important objection that Mr. Robbins raised was your apparent endorsement of the theories of Eustace Mullins. Mr. Robbins stated:

“Another of Thrive’s primary sources, and another of the authors Foster Gamble told me I should read in order to better understand Thrive, is Eustace Mullins.  I honestly find it difficult to convey the level of anti-semitism in Mullins’s books, without it seeming that I am exaggerating.  So I will let Mullins’s own words speak for themselves…”

Mr. Robbins then quoted three utterly disgusting paragraphs, dripping with hateful anti-Semitic vitriol, from this book by an author he claims you recommended highly to him. You do not comment on Eustace Mullins at all in your response. Why not?

There’s obviously something you like about Eustace Mullins, if you recommended him to Mr. Robbins. (If he was in error in claiming you did, now’s a perfect opportunity to set the record straight). This is all the more puzzling because I do not believe you are an anti-Semite; Mr. Robbins did not make that accusation either, and it’s clear that you’re not. But the fact is, once you cut out the anti-Semitism, there’s not much left of Eustace Mullins’s philosophy that stands on its own. So please, Mr. Gamble, educate us. Which parts of Eustace Mullins’s philosophy you like, and why? Furthermore, why did you not even mention this very key point of John Robbins’s criticism of Thrive in your response?

Global Warming Denial—Ignoring the Elephant in the Room.

Your statements regarding anthropogenic climate change are, like your mischaracterization of John Robbins’s central argument, profoundly unfortunate. The fact that you deny the irrefutable scientific proof that climate change is being caused by human activity is deeply depressing, and not just to me. Your denial of global warming seems to have been the key reason why Adam Trombly turned against you. It is also one of the key reasons why I find Thrive, and conspiracism in general, so pernicious, because it’s a prime example of how conspiracy theories divert attention away from real problems.

You stated:

“We do not question that the climate is changing…What’s called for here is to distinguish between denying that the climate is changing (which we do not) and valuable inquiry into some of the deeper issues surrounding climate change (which we do). This is a distinction we feel would serve people far more than name-calling and disassociation.”

So, you don’t deny that climate is changing; you just deny the evidence of what’s causing it. This distinction is utterly meaningless.

If you deny that human activity is causing global warming, you are endorsing an excuse to do nothing about it. By definition, if it’s natural, it will resolve itself on its own, right? If global warming isn’t being caused by greenhouse emissions and industrial processes, then there is no meaningful action that we have to take; in fact we shouldn’t take action at all because that would be tampering with a natural process. It seems that you don’t want us to take any action at all about global warming, other than to overcome the “Global Domination Elite” that you say is withholding “free energy” from us. Once we overcome them, all our problems will be solved. Isn’t that the take-home point from Thrive?

Your claim that you’re simply looking out for people in the hopes that carbon taxes don’t take away their freedom is a chimera. There are other ways to fight global warming besides carbon taxes. (For the record, I don’t believe that carbon taxes are the answer, and everyone who knows me knows that I’m passionate about the issue of fighting global warming). What actions by governments, business interests and individuals are you willing to support, Mr. Gamble, to reverse anthropogenic global warming?

You can’t deny the causation of the problem and then pretend like you’re still interested in solving the problem. This is the biggest problem on the planet today. What do you suggest we do about it?

Will you please tell us, Mr. Gamble, what action you are willing to support—besides reliance on “free energy” machines—in order to combat and reverse anthropogenic global warming?

HAARP—the Final Frontier of Conspiracist Thinking.

Your statement makes clear that you do believe in HAARP—one of the most farfetched, unsupportable and bizarre conspiracy theories out there, with the possible exception of David Icke’s reptile theories—after all. This is deeply distressing to me. Your attempt to address this subject simply digs you deeper into the hole:

“John Robbins claims we said Japan’s earthquake was caused by HAARP – an electromagnetic antenna array project in Alaska that can focus 3.6 billion watts of radio-frequency energy into a single area of the atmosphere. We hope John said this because he misremembered and was not just distorting this for effect. In fact, what we said is that we check into major earthquakes now that we are familiar with HAARP’s involvement in causing other quakes. We currently have no evidence of HAARP causing Japan’s earthquake, however, there is ample evidence of HAARP involvement in both the Chile and Haiti quakes.”

Okay—so Japan wasn’t HAARP, but Chile and Haiti definitely were!

Do you really think, Mr. Gamble, that this makes you seem any more in touch with objective reality regarding this subject than if you had asserted that the Japan quake was caused by HAARP?

You believe in a magical machine, controlled by the U.S. government, that can cause earthquakes anywhere on earth with the push of a button? Really? Do you appreciate how expressing beliefs such as these negatively affect your basic credibility as someone claiming to have answers for moving the world forward?

When you say things like this, can you really blame us for being skeptical?

The Disease of Conspiracy Thinking

Mr. Gamble, I’ve been debunking conspiracy theories, in one form or another, for seven years now. I’ve seen many tragic examples of what conspiracy thinking can do to a person. I had a friend, a young man, who was a believer in UFO/alien conspiracies and NESARA, a supposedly secret law that will bring unlimited plenty to the whole world if only the Global Domination Elite and their evil alien allies would stop obstructing it. This young man chose not to go to college or to prepare for any sort of meaningful future, because he believed NESARA would be implemented any day now and there would be no need to work or provide for himself. Another man, also a believer in the Global Domination Elite, decided to home-school his children because he feared they were receiving “Illuminati indoctrination” through the public schools. The “home schooling” he gave them consisted of making them watch Alex Jones and other conspiracist videos on YouTube, all day, every day, day after day. You may remember the “Don’t taze me, bro!” incident from a few years ago where a man was attacked with a taser gun at a John Kerry rally. Most people don’t know that the man involved in that incident was a conspiracy theorist; he was convinced Kerry was a member of your Global Domination Elite and was shouting questions about Kerry’s involvement with Yale’s “Skull and Bones Society.” These are but a few examples of the harmful effects conspiracy beliefs can have on a person.

Conspiracy theories are like a virus. They infect a healthy person, replicate inside of them, and then spill out to infect others. A person who believes in one conspiracy theory rarely stops there. Usually they end up swallowing them all. The person infected is no more to blame than someone who catches pneumonia or the flu. I know all too well; I myself recovered from this disease. I am a former conspiracy theorist.

I would like to ask you to think—just think—about your conspiracy beliefs in these terms. Suppose, just for the sake of argument, that the Global Domination Agenda doesn’t exist, that HAARP can’t create earthquakes, and that anthropogenic global warming is real. If it is possible that the things you believe are factually incorrect, how could you have come to believe them so fervently? Could there be an explanation in the way you’ve thought about them, the sort of evidence you find convincing, the questions you ask, or the people you seek out for information? I’m suggesting this because thinking along these lines is what got me out of conspiracy thinking. The more I insisted upon real evidence, solid arguments, and knowledgeable experts, the flimsier and falser became the conspiracy theories that I thought I believed in. I wouldn’t be surprised if you go down the same road someday. In fact I think it’s likely you will, and someday you may repudiate Thrive, the way Dylan Avery did with Loose Change.

We are all members of this society. We all have a stake in making the world a better place for our children. All I’m asking you to do, Mr. Gamble, is consider approaching these problems from a rational, skeptical and logical standpoint. If you do, it doesn’t mean you feel any less or that your passion for improving peoples’ lives is at all diminished. It’s not about taking the government’s word for anything. Approaching the world with skepticism doesn’t mean that you become more gullible, more trusting or more capable of being manipulated. In fact, you will find that the opposite is true. Let’s approach the world from the standpoint of what’s really out there. The disease of conspiracy thinking makes that very difficult, but this disease, thankfully, has a cure: critical thinking.

You Want to Talk About Solutions? Let’s Talk About Solutions.

In your statements you’ve emphasized that you’d rather talk about solutions to world problems than the problems with your movie. Okay, I have a few solutions. Let’s talk about them. As I said earlier, I lay no claim to being an activist, and I don’t pretend to have a plan to save the world. But with as many fans of your movie as have asked me what my solutions are, I guess somebody wants to hear them.

Solution 1: Stop promoting baseless conspiracy theories.

Diverting attention from real problems in the real world is not helping anybody—in fact, it’s hurting quite a bit. The central teaching of the disease of conspiracy thinking is “they are bad.” Whoever they are changes, but it’s always an external enemy, some super-powerful source that’s opposed to what’s good and proper. So long as we’re trying to overcome them, whoever you think they are, we’re not moving forward.

This is why Thrive is not productive, is not constructive, and is not helpful. It has nothing to do with your intentions, which I believe are good. But the simple truth is that the so-called “facts” your movie promotes are just not true. There is no “Global Domination Agenda.” Banks are not tools of the Rothschilds for world domination. 9/11 was not a “false flag” operation. These things just aren’t true, and it’s very easy to ascertain that they aren’t true. So let’s stop promoting them.

Solution 2: Fight anthropogenic global warming.

The warming of our climate, greatly accelerated to disastrous levels by the activity of human beings, is the single greatest threat to this planet right now. Inaction or denial is unacceptable. Neither can we wait for a “transition” to some nebulously-defined future utopian society in order to save us from global warming. We need action now—a mass program of cooperation between governments, business interests, individuals, and non-governmental organizations, on local, national and trans-national levels. We must reduce carbon emissions. We must change the game to make existing forms of clean energy—not magical “free energy” devices—economical and desirable, things like solar, wind and water power. We should have started doing this 35 years ago. We didn’t. Every day we delay means that the effects of our measures will pinch us that much more in the future.

Solution 3: Promote smarter, better, more compassionate government.

There are very few people in America who believe that our political system couldn’t stand drastic improvement. We need to reduce the impact of corporate money on politics. We need to make sure that government makes decisions that benefit real people before corporations and business interests. We need to increase funding for public education at all levels—and by increase I mean a vast increase, an increase of staggering proportions, a massive diversion of a significant chunk of America’s GDP to education. If we spent on public schools what we spend every year to fight the war in Afghanistan, the entire country would begin to reap immediate and dramatic benefits. Even a five-year program to fund schools at the level that we today fund military expenditures would profoundly transform this country. Education is the cure to so many problems in our society, and it’s a cure that exists now, without waiting for magical technology to swoop down from the sky, as Thrive asserts.

We, the people, have the power to enact these solutions. We can do it right now, in our existing communities; the politicians we send to our statehouses and to Washington, after all, are put there by us. This is what I think John Robbins meant, Mr. Gamble, when he talked about the problems being caused by us. But we have to recognize what our problems really are. Your film does not present the problems as they really are.

Why Listen to Me At All? Because It’s Not Just Me Saying This.

I doubt you’ll think very much about my solutions. Your past statements have indicated that the price of admission to a debate you’re willing to have about solutions is acceptance of the conspiracy theories contained in Thrive. Most likely you won’t take me seriously because I reject those theories. You took a similar tack toward Rob Hopkins and Georgia Kelly, both of whose criticisms you refused to entertain. What you’re doing, therefore, is to close yourself off into an isolated universe—where only the voices of fellow conspiracy believers are heard, a universe where the key litmus test of legitimacy is conspiracist thinking, and where input from the fact-based world is rejected as a mortal threat. Forgive me for being skeptical that any reasonable solutions to societal problems can emerge from such a universe.

If it were just me, some random guy from the blogosphere, saying this, that would be one thing. It would be very easy to dismiss me. Your spokesperson, Lee, has come to this blog several times to insist that because I don’t advertise my name on this blog, somehow this makes my criticisms unworthy of attention, as if the facts and reasoning I present here have no persuasive value unless my name is attached to them. I think this is nothing more than an excuse for refusing to engage with the serious problems surrounding Thrive. You’re fond of citing statistics on the number of people who have seen your movie, or the fact that it’s been translated into such-and-such languages. These statistics do nothing to bolster the veracity of your claims. In fact, they underscore the urgency of the mission of this blog. You claim your film has been seen a million times; my blog has been read by about 100,000 people. If an untruth can circle the world while the truth is still putting its shoes on, those of us who profoundly disagree with your movie have a great deal of work ahead of us.

But it’s not just me. Look at the main points I’ve made here. I take issue with your inclusion of David Icke, with your praise of Eustace Mullins, with your assertions about HAARP, and your conspiratorial worldview. Your friend John Robbins was bothered by these exact same points. Others are too; I’ve talked to many of them, some of them your personal friends and acquaintances. Your response to their very cogent criticisms has done nothing to ameliorate our concerns. If I went off into the sunset or deleted my blog tomorrow, these concerns about Thrive would still remain. That’s one reason I say that this blog is not about me.

Mr. Gamble, I believe you are a good, kind, compassionate and intelligent man. That’s one reason why Thrive bothers me so much, because I think you can do better. We could all benefit from your immense energy and passion to help the world, if it was directed toward that end. Please, Mr. Gamble: turn away from conspiracism. Don’t let Thrive define you.

Sincerely,

Muertos

Update 4 May 2012

Foster Gamble responded to this letter. His response is reproduced in its entirety here, along with my own remarks regarding his thoughts.

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62 responses to “My Open Letter to Foster Gamble: Turn Your Back on Conspiracy—Don’t Let Thrive Define You. (UPDATED!)”

  1. Mike says :

    Wow. This reminds me of some thoughts that came to me while watching a debate between Noam Chomsky and Alan Derschiwitz. I kept thinking of the Marshal Mcluhan addage, the media is the message. The two debaters appeared to me not as us and them debating but them with me being us. The content of the debate was superfluous and the message was they were in a peer competition and the debate was the format it was taking.

  2. Cristina says :

    I was originally excited by the trailers for Thrive. But when it was made available on the web for a fee, something kept me back. When it was finally released for free a few weeks ago, I watched it. My instincts were spot on about paying to see it. I too, was upset about the rehashing of conspiracy theories–some which are embraced by the left when the Right holds power, but when the Left holds power, they become embraced by the Right. One of my friends e-mailed a group of us the retraction statement from Praxis which had the retraction of support by all the progressives who appeared. The backlash was quick–check Snopes! Can’t be true! But the retraction only reinforced the bad feelings I had about the movie and its emphasis on conspiracies. I agree with Robbins assessment, as well as your analysis that it is We the People who have gotten ourselves in this mess. We don’t teach critical thinking in school and it is an elective in many colleges. Science and statistics should be required courses no matter one’s major. We have turned our brains to mush with our junkfood diet and reality TV. Thank you for being the voice of reason.

  3. SlayerX3 says :

    Is it really hard for them to understand if the premises of a problem’s cause are wrong so will be the solutions ?

  4. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    For those who would like to do what Foster Gamble asks, that is to perform “due diligence,” then here is a link to a 28 page booklet written by Eustace Mullins in 1968 entitled THE BIOLOGICAL JEW. I post a sample of 5 excerpts.

    (What I found so ironic about these quotes is that taking them out of context as I do here actually makes them sound better. When read in their full context, they sound much worse.)

    http://ia700506.us.archive.org/19/items/BiologicalJew/Biological_Jew.pdf

    “The Jew has always functioned best as a panderer, a pornographer, a master of prostitution, an apostle of sexual perversion, an enemy of the prevailing sexual standards and prohibitions of the gentile community.” (page 21)

    “This religious ceremony of drinking the blood of an innocent gentile child is basic to the Jew’s entire concept of his existence as a parasite, living off of the blood of the host.” (page 25)
    “Treason, fraud, perversion, all the hallmarks of Jewish life among the gentiles in the Diaspora. And it is parasitism.” (page 28)

    “…the existence of the Jewish parasite upon the host is a crime against nature, because its existence imperils the health and the life of the host. Thus, everything that the Jew does in connection with this parasitic existence is a criminal act, and part of an overall criminal existence.” (page 28)

    “The Jews do not want anyone to know what Nazism is. Nazism is simply this – a proposal that the German people rid themselves of the parasitic Jews….And how futile it all was, because today, Jewish bankers own sixty per cent of German industry, and their holdings are protected by the occupation army of America.” (page 32)

  5. Hollywood Tomfortas says :

    More due diligence!

    Here is Eustace Mullins’ appreciation for Hitler published in the October 1952 issue of the “National Renaissance Bulletin” an anti-Communist publication printed monthly from 1950 to 1953.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/24860672/Adolf-Hitler-an-Appreciation-by-Eustace-Mullins

    HITLER: AN APPRECIATION by Eustace Mullins

    Eventually America must admit her debt to Adolf Hitler for it was Hitler who first called upon all Aryan people to unite and challenge Jewish economic and political power. It was Hitler who first enunciated the doctrine of national self-determination and led the armies of Christian Europe in a great crusade against the godless Jews of the Kremlin. Hitler, like Christ before him, was crucified on a Cross of Gold through the duplicity of his own Christian people. America will never forget that the Jewish International bankers, together with Franklin D. Roosevelt, their tool, led us into World War II. Why? Because Hitler drove the economic leeches of the Rothschild and Warburg families out of Germany.

    The Jewish “refugees” poured into America and enlisted us as cannon fodder and errand boys in Europe. Hitler warned America in 1945, that we would have to face the ultimate battle against the Jewish Frankenstein Monster of Communism alone. America had helped created the monster, now it would destroy her. It is no longer a question of defending America’s independence. It is a question of defending the remainder of Western Civilization from the colored hordes of Asia and Africa led by Jewish Communism toward the ultimate goal of Jewish World Domination. The Jew plays for high stakes; world domination or the extermination of their race.

    America is the last obstacle in the path of Jewish conquest. Either the Aryan or the Jew must yield in the world struggle. The goal of our National Renaissance movement becomes clearer.

    • muertos says :

      I’m hesitant to allow this toxic shit to appear on my blog in any form, even to deride it. I can’t even look at this bullshit without feeling extreme revulsion. Yet this type of extreme belief is unfortunately very common among conspiracy believers.

  6. jon says :

    I would truly love for the author of this evil website to “debunk” anything written by Ludwig von Mises. Perhaps being by actually reading “Human Action”. Of course, this website is probably set up by the powers that be, and this comment will likely be rejected.

    • muertos says :

      Why is this an “evil” website? Because I do not believe conspiracy theories that totally lack the slightest shred of factual support? Why is it “evil” to question such assertions?

      Why would you think that this comment would be rejected? As you can see, I approved it, as I have done every other comment that isn’t obviously auto-spam. My views on Ludwig von Mises are not relevant to this blog and therefore I have no interest in refuting them, as the focus of this blog is how and why the movie Thrive is factually incorrect, harmful, and misleading.

      • jon says :

        Your views of Ludwig von Mises are entirely absent, but if you watched the movie, you’d see his name was mentioned (and for a reason). Please at least educate yourself before assuming to understand how the world around you works. You are blinded by your ego. Seriously, read “Human Action” or any other works Mises has written about money and credit (Austrian Economics). Your eyes will begin to open up. Albeit, “evil” may not be a proper term…. especially if you don’t realize what you are talking about.

        “Economics must not be relegated to classrooms and statistical offices and must not be left to esoteric circles. It is the philosophy of human life and action and concerns everybody and everything. It is the pith of civilization and of mans human existence.” – Ludwig von Mises

        “Used to the conditions of a capitalistic environment, the average American takes it for granted that every year business makes something new and better accessible to him. Looking backward upon the years of his own life, he realizes that many implements that were totally unknown in the days of his youth and many others which at that time could be enjoyed only by a small minority are now standard equipment of almost every household. He is fully confident that this trend will prevail also in the future. He simply calls it the American way of life and does not give serious thought to the question of what made this continuous improvement in the supply of material goods possible.” – Ludwig von Mises

      • jon says :

        You can begin by reading this free pdf text. It is a series of lectures given by Mises on money and inflation. He was denied a teaching position at every American public education system. Read it, and then ask yourself why he was never given tenure.

        http://library.mises.org/books/Ludwig%20von%20Mises/Ludwig%20von%20Mises%20on%20Money%20and%20Inflation.pdf

      • anticultist says :

        I see that you,John, like your hero Foster Gamble have a knack for ignoring what was said to you.

        Muertos said he was not going to debate Von Mises, nowhere did he say he did not understand or had even read his words.

        Yet you continue to blither on as if he somehow does not understand or has never encountered the details.

        Once agin this blog and its contents are a collection of pieces that discuss the content of Thrive, at present you have multiple different collections up on the right hand side dealing with all the fallacies and fabrications within the movie thrive. Those alone are enough to stand up on their own. If Muertos did indeed at some point decide to discuss Von Mises in the articles then I am absolutely certain that it would again take the factual side on the subject.

        The fact is Muertos’s eyes are not in need of “being opened”, as conspiracy theorists ignorantly use, in fact the latter is likely true.

      • anticultist says :

        *reverse – not latter

      • Emmanuel Goldstein says :

        Muertos, who’s responsible for 9/11 ?

      • anticultist says :

        “Muertos, who’s responsible for 9/11 ?”

        He doesn’t post here any longer, but I can answer that for you.

        The terrorist organisation referred to as Al Qaeda, who managed to conduct a well planned yet simple attack on US soil.

        Now if you want to play dick and post conspiracy theories about it please don’t bother, we have all heard every single argument and point that conspiracy theorists present for 911, every one of the is false.

  7. DiscoPro_Joe says :

    Interesting letter,…although I choose not to get directly involved in trying to “change the world.” If the natural course of my own life ends up inadvertently changing the world, though, then so be it.

    As a “passive” libertarian, and as a general nonbeliever in conspiracy theories, my views are as follows:

    A. Your worst enemy (and the biggest threat to your freedom) is *yourself*: making unwise decisions, remaining in situations that don’t suit you, and blaming yourself for other people’s problems.

    B. The second-most-significant threat to your freedom is your own government: confiscating a large portion of your income, stifling the economy, attempting to micromanage every facet of your life, and putting you at risk of rogue attacks and terrorist acts because of your regime’s insane foreign policies.

    C. Foreign enemies (and terrorists) pose *very little* threat to your freedom — especially when compared to yourself and your own government. Politicians, the mainstream media, and some of their major lobbyists and advertisers love to fool people away from this obvious fact.

    D. “Phantom” enemies, such as the “New World Order,” “Global Domination Elite,” evil space aliens who supposedly visited Earth, etc., pose ***absolutely zero*** threat to your freedom whatsoever. Why? Because they simply don’t exist; that’s why!

    Now imagine how much better most people’s lives would be if each of them focused 97 percent of their personal energy on (A), three percent of their efforts on (B), almost nothing on (C), and absolutely zilch on (D). Wow…it’s amazing, isn’t it!

    Instead of watching B.S. films like *Thrive*, most people would be much better-off reading my favorite book *How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World* by the late, great Harry Browne. (You can download the E-book version from the author’s website.)

    In this self-help book, he says, “You need only one [lover], one job, one place to live, one set of friends. To find them, is it really necessary to become involved in a social movement to change the thinking of millions of people?”

    Music to my ears,…which I could groove to!

    • jon says :

      It is astonishing how so many people simply say “there’s no such thing as the NWO”. They provide no evidence to support that claim, while there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to support the fact that there is one.They cannot believe there are people this corrupt and disregarding for human life. They refuse to believe there is even a possibility that they have been fooled their entire lives. I will challenge anyone on this site to an “evidence contest”. Then, lets’s have a “history contest”. Then let’s put all those together with a “logical debate”. Let’s get it going…

      Let’s begin with this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a9Syi12RJo

      • muertos says :

        If you haven’t already looked at it, definitely check out this article:
        https://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/global-domination-agenda-debunked/

        It explains why so-called “evidence” for existence of the NWO/Illuminati/GDA is not in fact evidence, why believers will never accept it, and (most importantly) why it is up to them to prove the existence of this conspiracy, rather than the burden of proof being on those who deny it to disprove it.

        The NWO does not exist.

    • muertos says :

      Joe, I’m not in the “saving the world” business either, but as so many Thrive fans seem to think that you have to be before you dare to utter a single word of criticism against the movie, I thought I’d say a few words about it.

  8. jon says :

    I read your “debunking” of the NWO evidence. It seems elementary at best. The truth is that facts must be selected and ordered in accordance with judgments of importance, and such judgments are necessarily tied into the historian’s basic world outlook.

    If you are not a trillionaire, that is you have a monopoly over the world reserve currency (the US dollar), then you in fact do not think like a trillionair; nor do you have the slightest idea what your world view would be. However, most semi-intelligent individuals understand that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That’s not my opinion, that is the history of the centralization of power; financial or lawful.

    Why haven’t their plans succeeded? That is not the question you should be asking. You should be asking “why are they, or are they not succeeding?” Indeed they “are succeeding”.

    An excellent academic publication you might like to read is entitled “The Road to Serfdom”. The gist of the literature is how finanicial and/or government power always leads to absolute tyranny over the course of time. Those in office may even have good intentions when passing laws over the course of time, but their economic ignorance blinds them to the unintended consequences of the laws they pass. When laws are passed to impede peaceful exchanges in the market-economy, few notice when they are passed slowly over the couse of time. People adjust and move on. If in the 18th century Obama stepped into power and signed the NDAA (blatantly antithetical to the US Constitution), he’d be assasinated the same day. Today, however, we’ve been psychologically conditioned to believe that laws passed never lead to horrific things. More and more power is granted to government with these laws and ultimately the “bad guy” takes office and uses that power to do harm, or simply carry out his world view that he believes is benevolent and virtuous for mankind. Anything can be justified, depending on one’s world view.

    Those who were crying, ranting, and raving over Adolf Hitler hadn’t the slightest clue what lied ahead. Even the elites of academia were fooled by his marvel.

    Even in modern-day warfare it is internationally known that physical torture is often inefficient in extracting information. Psychological control over a person is far superior because if you control the mind, you control the man. Laws that are passed to enslave the masses must be done methodically and slowly, as to not awaken people to the reality that they may one day wake up under absolute tyranny (this is key, because once the people wake up, decades of the elites’ efforts to decieve is ruined). Once their normalcy bias sets in and they see nothing bad has happened, they forget about it and go about their daily lives….. we are ALL guilty of this.

    The burdeon of prood lies neither on those who believe, nor disbelieve. Everyone is in the same boat.

    • Lee says :

      Jon, if you want to waste your life being scared of phantoms then please do so yourself without trying to get others into it. In other words, please share your crazy beliefs somewhere else.

      Of course you have the right to share your crazy beliefs here but you’ll be wasting your time, if you think that we’ll be convinced by them. And by the way, the burden of proof still lies on you to prove that your fears are real.

      If you still want to share your beliefs with other people through the internet, then it is better for you to do it in your own blog. To do it in somebody else’s blog is rude IMO.

      • jon says :

        Oh, thank Lee! Great insight. Clearly, 2+2 does not equal 4 to people on this blog. Critical thinking is a big “no no”. Thanks again, Lee!

  9. jon says :

    The ultimate given is individual human action. Only individuals like yourself think, reason, and then act on those thoughts. As you think about this, you will realize that you are currently in a state of action. You may be moving your arm, your finger, your head, your leg, or blinking your eyes. Even if it was possible for you to be perfectly still, your bodily organs, including your brain, are always in a state of action. So long as life exists, action will too.

    With action necessarily comes choices. This means you are choosing to listen to this video rather than an inconceivable number of other things you could choose to be doing. You could be riding a bike, calling your friend, watching CNN, burning down your house, or buying a plane ticket to go see pyramids in Egypt. The point here is that free choice is inherent in you. It is an inescapable reality of your human existence.

    You think, even if it is for a milisecond, before you put that thought into action. Every bodily move, or action, you make is the result of a choice you make in your mind (this doesn’t include involunatary actions such as coughing, sneezing, or getting chills). Each choice you make is an attempt to replace your current sense of well-being with a sense of well-being you believe is going to be more satisfactory to you. The choices you make are based on how your past actions and experiences dictate your beliefs about the future, and thus what choices you make proceeding into it. For example, when you do something nice for someone else, you do it because you believe it will make you feel good to know that it made the person you are going to help also feel good. When you cross your legs while sitting down, you do so in an attempt to become more comfortable.

    Another example could be as simple as brushing your teeth. You choose to brush your teeth because you believe it will make you feel more content that you have reduced the likelihood of your teeth turning yellow or getting a cavity. Based on your past experiences of having brushed your teeth, doing something nice for someone, or crossing your legs, you believe that by doing these things again, a similar sense of well-being can be achieved. You can apply this principle to any choice you make for the rest of your life.

    With every action, you employ means to attain your ends. When you brush your teeth, you employ your toothbrush as your means to attain your ends, which is to prevent the likelihood of your teeth from turning yellow or getting a cavity. When you move your body from your bedroom to your bathroom to go brush your teeth, you employ the use of your legs to get there. When you go to work, you must adopt some form of means to get there; your ends being arriving at your destination, your means being walking, riding a bike, or driving a car. If someone’s ends is to build a skyscraper, their means will be human labor, resources, and tools to attain that end, which is a completed skyscraper. Means and ends are necessarily inherent in all human action. Again, you can apply this principle to every choice and outcome you will experience throughout your entire life, regardless of your race, culture, religion, or level of affluence.

    Now that you may be more in touch with your own reality, you may be wondering, “what does any of this have to do with government?” The answer: everything. In the words of Frederic Bastiat, “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” By your very human nature, you are a capitalist. You adopt means to produce ends. Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production.

    Government does not produce anything. People, individuals (you), produce everything. The term “government” or “America” is a simplified way of describing individual people, just like you, striving to better their lot in life by cooperating with other people trying to do the same thing. Nobody has to tell you or force you to do this. All that is necessary is for you to desire a greater sense of well being, and then choose to act in such a way as to make it come about. ——— So when government spends more than it takes in from tax revenue, how do you think it covers the rest of the bill? Answer: by the printing press — digitally creating money out of thin air —- leading to inflation — which you pay through higher prices.

    Man invented the wheel because it helped him move objects from point A to B much more quickly and efficiently than his body, alone. He innately possessed the logic to overcome things he viewed as problematic to attaining what he wanted. Man invented the lightbulb, the airplane, the bulldozer, etc. all for the same reason. He makes things that enable him to enjoy more output per unit of input. For example, both a car and bicyle will take man from point A to point B, but he most often prefers a car because he finds it more enjoyable and allows him more time to do other things he may prefer more than walking. He chooses the more liesurely alternative. This is not a good or bad thing, but rather human nature. I think you get the point. You can apply this principle to anything man-made.

    Private ownership existed before government ownership. The private sector created the institution of government. This means that every country can be measured only in varying degrees of capitalism. Communism is the polar opposite of capitalism. Communism is where the government owns and controls the means of production. But remember, people are first and foremost always the first means of anything that is produced. In a communistic society, the individuals in government, that is those who write laws and order police to enforce them, own and control all the individuals in the private sector. The more laws there are to dictate the free-will of people in the private sector, the less capitalistic society becomes. In this light, communism can be viewed as a form of slavery… Except in this case a majority doesn’t own and control a minority… a minority owns and controls a majority.

    Individuals in government are no different than individuals in the private sector. All individuals think, choose, and act based on their subjective desires. The fundamental difference, the only difference, between those in government and those in the private sector, is the power of law. Those in government can force by law those in the private sector to do as they are
    told. The ends sought by the government may be a percentage of something you have produced. If you own a business and those in government say, “we need money, give us some of yours”, they can employ police, which would be their means, to attain your money, which is their ends.

    Some laws are indeed necessary to prevent those in the private sector from hurting, cheating, or stealing from one another…. which are all disruptive to individual freedom. But just because governmnet possesses the power to do this does not make government a good thing. Freedom doesn’t mean simply to live free from impeding forces of your fellow men in the private sector, it also means to live free from impeding forces of your fellow men in government. YOU own your life, body, thoughts, and wealth produced from YOUR labor.

  10. jon says :

    I thought I’d provide a very basic explanation on what money is, and how it developed not by a central, ruling authority, — but naturally in the market through the voluntary actions of individual people exchanging what they wanted:

    Once upon a time, the world was created. How it was created is a separate issue.Sometime after the world was created, life came into existence. Among the various life-forms were human beings. What separates man from the animal kingdom is his superior and innate ability to reason. Through his use of reason, man is able to employ scarce resources (limited in quantity) found in various parts of the world in order to improve his material standard of living.

    It is important to note that no other living thing had to force or order man to improve his own standard of living. He was simply dissatisfied with his current circumstances and decided to do something about it. Life did not ask man what he wanted, but rather presented him with options from which he had to choose.

    Equally important to note is that only individual humans make choices. Only individuals think, choose, and act. Buildings, countries, states, governments, religions, armies, or groups do NOT think, choose, or act. They are merely metaphorical terms to generalize individual humans who possess their own thoughts, ideas, beliefs, and desires. Thus, the truth is that there is no such thing as right or wrong, but only what works or does not work in pursuit of whatever goals are being sought by an individual (you say “ta may toe”,
    I say “to mah to”)

    As more individual humans are born into the world, new skills, ideas, and material items are developed. For tens of thousands of years, a material good could be attained only by the individual producing it for himself, or by trading what he knew how to produce for what he really wanted —– and that only someone else had the means (knowledge and resources) to produce. In other words, a barter economy preceeded an indirect exchange economy (use of money, which is a general medium of exchange for the things people actually want). For example, a corn farmer may trade corn for a fisherman’s fish.

    One day the fisherman wanted more corn, but the farmer did not want more fish. The farmer told the fisherman he instead wanted wheat. Coincidently, the fisherman happened to know a wheat grower who was in need of fish. Although the farmer had no desire to eat the wheat, he used his reason to figure out how
    the wheat could be used to acquire what he really wanted to eat; corn. So the fisherman went to see the wheat grower and exhanged some fish for wheat, and then returned to the corn grower to exchange the wheat for corn.
    All parties involved ended more satisfied through voluntary transactions, with wheat playing the role of money.

    Money developed into many things such as bark, feathers, slaves, etc.
    Ultimately, GOLD and SILVER became society’s preferred form of money. Just like prison inmates trading cigarettes as a medium of exchange, nobody knows a “correct” answer as to why humans prefer one medium of exchange as opposed to another. The market decides; not a ruling elite.

    What makes them the only justification to act as money in modern society is the fact that they cannot be produced in a cheaper way by any government bureau, committee, institution, agency, etc. The usefulness of the gold standard consists in the fact that it makes the supply of money depend on the profitability of mining gold. Money MUST remain scarce in relation to existing goods and services, or else prices rise! This is not a debatable issue, even the ignorant Keynesian economists that work for Democrats and Republicans agree on this.

    So, who chose the American dollar to be America’s money?
    Who chose:
    The Japenese Yen?
    The Swiss Franc?
    The German Mark?
    The Chinese Yuan?

    Answer: Government leaders and bankers; not society at large.

    • SlayerX3 says :

      I’m going to put in simple terms. Does commodity backed money keep tabs on inflation ? Yes. Does it allow easy trade ? NOPE.

      Guess which one the world considers more important.

      Also you know that the people in charge of the government in most countries, at least in the democratic ones, were put in charge by the people of said countries.

  11. Foster Gamble says :

    Mr. Dead Ones (Muertos)
    I was told before launching THRIVE that I would know we were having significant impact when debunkers started devoting entire websites to negative-only commentary. So I guess I should thank you for fulfilling that role.
    You claim there are no real conspiracies – despite vast documentation and court cases. You state there are no real zero point energy devices – despite a huge number of eyewitnesses, gag orders, court cases etc. You write off the possibility of contact with UFOs / ET – despite thousands of credible reports, hundreds of hours of footage, over 500 high level military, government, pilot and FAA accounts, and other country’s formal acknowledgement of UFO’s. You seem to think there is not any chance we could actually thrive with freedom for EVERYONE.
    Clearly, we disagree. That’s fine- I just wonder what you base your opinions on?

    If our predicament on this planet is the result of coincidence and incompetence, why do you hide your true identity? You claim to be afraid of repercussions from actually taking a transparent stand – Afraid of whom? What integrity is there is hiding and then deliberately trying to thwart the efforts of those who would transparently stand for our values, for deeper truths and for new paradigm solutions? I believe such cowardice and shortsightedness feed into the much more dangerous looming police state that you end up supporting through your denial.
    If there is no destructive conspiracy to be concerned about and if you are sincere, why not just post your real name, picture, bio and affiliations?
    I highly recommend that you take a fraction of the vast amount of time you put into creating only negative and baseless smears against THRIVE and actually do some real investigation so that we can engage in an informed dialog that will add something of value in these perilous times.

    I am pausing to take some time to expose some of your most blatant misrepresentations of THRIVE. My input to your assessment is in all caps below.

    How Does Thrive Divert Attention from Real Problems?
    Thrive is deeply misguided because it’s diverting its viewers’ attention away from the real solutions that we must pursue to these very real problems. My core grievance with conspiracy theories is that they are false.
    FG – I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU RELY ON COINCIDENCE THEORY AND NOTIONS OF GOVERNMENT INCOMPETENCE TO EXPLAIN THE CONSOLIDATION OF POWER THAT HAS THE MAJORITY OF THE WORLD IN SHACKLES AND AMERICA CAREENING TOWARD A POLICE STATE. I USED TO BELIEVE THAT ALSO. THEN I IMMERSED MYSELF IN RESEARCH AND FOUND CREDIBLE EVIDENCE ACTUALLY MADE MORE SENSE THAN THE MODEL OF INTERPRETATION YOU ARE RELYING ON. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THESE “33 CONSPIRACIES THAT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE?
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread531572/pg1
    However, it’s the effect of that falsity in the real world which is why opposing conspiracy theories matters. Conspiracy thinking reduces the world into a simplistic black-and-white, good-versus-evil, lightworkers-versus-disinformation paradigm. Against that background, nothing productive can get done.
    FG – AS A 3RD DEGREE BLACK BELT IN THE NON-VIOLENT MARTIAL ART OF AIKIDO, I LEARNED AND TAUGHT THAT THE FIRST IMPERATIVE OF DEFENDING ONESELF AND OUR LOVED ONES IS AN ACCURATE AND THOROUGH ASSESSMENT OF REALITY. CONSIDERING THE VIABILITY OF A CONSPIRACY AND UNDERSTANDING THE CLAIMS OF THOSE OF US WHO SUPPORT CONSPIRACY ANALYSIS IS FRUITFUL- NOT FOR YOU TO BELIEVE IT WITHOUT YOUR OWN DEEP ASSESSMENT, BUT TO CONSIDER IT SERIOUSLY. WHAT IS IT THAT SO MANY INDEPENDENT RESEARCHERS DISCOVER AND RISK THEIR LIVES TO SHARE? WHY JUST DISMISS IT WHEN SO MUCH IS AT STAKE? AN HOUR ON OUR WEBSITE, MUCH LESS AN OPEN-MINDED VIEWING OF THRIVE, WILL MAKE IT VERY CLEAR MY VIEW IS NOT SIMPLISTIC AND NEITHER ARE OUR SOLUTIONS UNPRODUCTIVE. MY INTENTION IS TO EXPOSE THE AGENDA SO THAT OUR SOLUTIONS CAN BE INFORMED. IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS INTENTIONALLY CORRUPT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO LOOK TO THEM TO BAIL US OUT OF THE MESS THEY GOT US IN TO. OR IS IT THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS IS ALL OUR FAULT? I HAVEN’T YET MET A PERSON WHO BELIEVES THEY RIGGED THE ECONOMIC SYSTEM TO SCREW THEMSELVES.
    ALREADY CITIES ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE SELF ORGANIZING INTO SOLUTIONS GROUPS BASED ON WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES AND GROUNDED SOLUTIONS THAT ADDRESS THE REAL PROBLEMS WITH RESPONSES. THIS IS THE VALUE OF PUTTING THE UNDERSTANDING THAT OUR RESEARCH AFFORDS INTO ACTION.
    Here’s how Thrive operates in this regard.
    Problem: environmental degradation caused by reliance on fossil fuels.
    Real solution: Work toward developing economically and socially realistic alternatives to fossil fuels, such as renewable energy resources (solar, wind, water power, etc.) as well as smarter solutions in building, land use and lifestyle.
    FG – ALL THAT IS GREAT…AND THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS TO SUPPLEMENT THESE IMPORTANT EFFORTS.
    Thrive solution: “Free energy” machines developed from technology given to us by aliens will save the world without us having to do anything (except to oppose the “Global Domination Elite.”).
    FG – YOUR PROPOSAL THAT WE ARE ADVOCATING DOING NOTHING UNDERMINES YOUR WHOLE ASSESSMENT OF THRIVE FOR ANYONE THINKING FOR THEMSELVES. AND IF THERE WERE “FREE ENERGY” DEVICES ALREADY DEVELOPED BY CURRENT INVENTORS IN VARIOUS COUNTRIES (WHICH I HAVE SEEN), WOULD YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THEM? AND DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GOVERNMENT DOES ALL THESE RAIDS, GAG ORDERS, INTIMIDATIONS AND EVEN ASSASSINATIONS ON HOAXERS? THERE IS HUGE EVIDENCE THAT THEY RECOGNIZE THE REAL INVENTORS BECAUSE THEY HAVE THESE TECHNOLOGIES THEMSELVES. WE HAVE SEEN DEVICES THAT PRODUCE MORE ENERGY THAN THEY USE- THAT IS A FACT. GIVEN THE REALITY OF THIS TECHNOLOGY, AND THE TREMENDOUS POTENTIAL IT HAS FOR RESTRUCTURING THE POWER DYNAMIC ON THE PLANET, HEALING LIVES, CLEANING WATER, RESTORING THE ENVIRONMENT, AND SO MUCH MORE THAT WE MUTUALLY WANT, WHY DO YOU CHOOSE TO PROMOTE SUCH AN UNIFORMED AND CYNICAL RESPONSE? WHY NOT CONSIDER SERIOUSLY THE SENSE IT MAKES THAT AN OIL ECONOMY WOULD DENY THE EXISTENCE OF TECHNOLOGY THAT WOULD OBSOLETE THE OIL ECONOMY? YOU SIMPLY LEAVE YOURSELF OUT OF MORE MEANINGFUL AND FRUITFUL DIALOG BY SHOWING NOT JUST YOUR LACK OF RESEARCH, BUT YOUR LACK OF INSIGHT.
    Problem: income disparity and poverty.
    Real solution: Work toward meaningful and fair reform of the economic system, policies that promote economic opportunity at the bottom, and make sure businesses and corporations pay their fair share and contribute to our society.
    FG – SOUNDS NICE. HOW DO YOU DO THIS? WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLE IT’S BASED ON? HOW IS IT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE HAVE BEEN HOPING FOR ALL ALONG THAT HASN’T WORKED? NOW WE ARE SPIRALING TOWARD TYRANNY AND YOU ARE HOPING THAT IT MIGHT JUST SOMEHOW START WORKING? I THINK THAT’S REFERRED TO AS THE TRIUMPH OF HOPE OVER EXPERIENCE– NOT A GOOD STRATEGY WHEN ALL OF LIFE IS ON THE LINE.
    Thrive solution: Take out the “Global Domination Elite.” Taxation is theft; abolish it.
    FG – NOT “TAKE OUT” AS IN “KILL.” BUT YES, REMOVE THEM FROM THEIR POSITION OF DOMINATION OVER AND DESTRUCTION OF BILLIONS OF LIVES. WOULD YOU LEAVE THEM IN PLACE WITH MONOPOLIES ON MONEY-MAKING AND FORCE? CAN YOU DISTINGUISH BETWEEN OBSOLETING AND KILLING? IT’S A VALUABLE ONE TO RECOGNIZE. WE HAVE THE POWER TO OBSOLETE THROUGH NON-VIOLENT NON-PARTICIPATION, AND THAT IS WHAT WE CLEARLY ADVOCATE.
    THE INCOME TAX IS ONLY 100 YEARS OLD – DURING WHICH TIME OUR ECONOMY AND THAT OF THE WORLD HAS BEEN DECIMATED BY THE SAME BANKING ELITE YOU SUGGEST WE LEAVE IN POWER AND HOPE TO REFORM. REVIEW OUR 3 STAGE SOLUTIONS STRATEGY – WHICH YOU HAVE NEVER MENTIONED ONCE – TO SEE THAT THE DISNFRANCHISED WILL BE CARED FOR IN STAGE ONE TRANSITION – NOT WITH NEW TAXES, BUT WITH MONEY FROM STOPPING THE WARS, CUTTING THE IMPERIALISM BUDGET OF THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX EISENHOWER AND KENNEDY WARNED ABOUT, AND FROM ABOLISHING THE FEDERAL RESERVE.
    IF SOMEONE TAKES THE MONEY YOU EARNED UNDER THREAT OF VIOLENCE IT IS THEFT. THAT IS HOW INCOME TAX OPERATES. I BELIEVE THE KEY QUESTIONS TO HELP US MOVE BEYOND THIS FAILING OLD PARADIGM ARE:
    1) If there were a way to have accessible and good roads, education and healthcare, help for the poor, a respected system of justice etc. – without anyone being violated against their will – as in involuntary income tax – would you want that?
    FG – IF SO, THEN WE CAN ENGAGE IN THE IMPORTANT AND DIFFICULT WORK OF FIGURING OUT HOW TO DO THAT. LUCKILY MANY PEOPLE HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND THEIR INSIGHTS AND STRATEGIES CAN HELP INFORM US. THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE EXPLORED IN DEPTH ON OUR WEBSITE IN HOPES OF SAVING PEOPLE TIME BY OUTLINING KEY PRINCIPLES SO THAT TOGETHER WE CAN FORGE A NEW PARADIGM OF SOLUTIONS TO GET BEYOND TWEAKING THIS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED AND FAILING SYSTEM.
    2) Just exactly when, for you, is it OK for one human being to take the rightfully gained property of another under the threat of violence?

    FG – IF IT IS NOT OK THEN HOW DO WE MOVE BEYOND THE INVOLUNTARY TAX-BASED SYSTEM INTO NON-VIOLATING, VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATIONS? ISN’T THAT WORTH CONSIDERING SERIOUSLY TO YOU? IF NOT, PLEASE GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO EXPLORE AND STRATEGIZE A PROCESS THAT WILL TRULY CARE FOR PEOPLE IN THE PROCESS, USING THE BEST OF THE PROGRESSIVE AND CONSERVATIVE WORLD VIEWS BUT ULTIMATELY TRANSCENDING THEM TO A PRINCIPLE-BASED NEW PARADIGM OF HUMAN INTERACTION AND ORGANIZATION.

    I TRULY HOPE YOU WILL TRY TO ANSWER THESE TWO QUESTIONS SINCERELY AS I BELIEVE OUR RESPONSES TO THEM, AND OUR ABILITY TO CREATE SOLUTIONS TOGETHER WILL DETERMINE THE SURVIVAL AND THRIVAL OF OUR SPECIES.
    Problem: government corruption.
    Real solution: Meaningful campaign finance reform; eliminate (or at least reduce) corporate/business influence in politics; punish wrongdoers; elect honest candidates.
    FG – FULLY AGREED…ALL GOOD…WE LIST CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM AMONG THE TOP 10 RECOMMENDED ACTIONS. BUT WHEN THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WERE AGAINST THE IRAQ WAR, THE AFGHANISTAN WAR, THE BAILOUTS, THE PATRIOT ACT, THE NDAA ETC. AND THEY GO AHEAD ANYWAY…AND THEN OBAMA DICTATES WITH HIS EXECUTIVE ORDER SIGNED MARCH 16 THAT HE CAN TAKE OVER ALL RESOURCES, INDUSTRY, LABOR ETC AND RE-INSTITUTE THE DRAFT – JUST BY DECLARING A NATIONAL EMERGENCY -…. MAYBE THERE IS MORE TO THIS PICTURE THAN CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM CAN ACCOMPLISH ON ITS OWN. THE PURPOSE OF OUR FOLLOW THE MONEY PYRAMID ON THE WEBSITE
    http://www.thrivemovement.com/followthemoneypyramid
    IS TO SHOW THAT THERE ARE AT LEAST 5 LEVELS OF CONTROL ABOVE THE SO-CALLED “GOVERNMENT.” THAT IS WHY THRIVE SOLUTION STRATEGIES ENGAGE AT ALL THE LEVELS.
    AND THAT IS WHY WE WANT TO ENVISION AND WORK TOWARD A WAY OF LIFE THAT TRANSCENDS INVOLUTARY GOVERNMENT SYSTEMS THAT RELY ON INVOLUTARY TAXES – COERCION- AND BEGIN THE DISMANTLING OF THOSE CORRUPT SYSTEMS. IF WE HAD THE MONEY THAT WE NOW PAY IN INTERST TO THE CORRUPT PRIVATELY OWNED FEDERAL RESERVE AND CUT THE PENTAGON BUDGET IN HALF, WE COULD AFFORD TO DECIDE FOR OURSELVES HOW TO CARE FOR OURSELVES AND EACH OTHER. WE WOULD HAVE THE MONEY NEEDED TO RESTORE THIS PLANET AND CARE FOR PEOPLE.
    WE BELIEVE THAT WHEN PEOPLE HAVE WHAT THEY NEED, THEY WILL BE RESPONSIBLE AND COMPASSIONATE. AND WE DO NOT SUGGEST TAKING AWAY GOVERNMENT SUPPORT UNTIL PEOPLE HAVE THE RESOURCES- WHICH IS WHY YOU AND WE BOTH CONSIDER CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM AND HONEST VOTING AND UNDOING CORPORATE PERSONHOOD TO BE SO VITAL.
    WHY NOT ENGAGE IN HOW TO BE SURE PEOPLE ARE CARED FOR (AS WE ADDRESS IN STAGE 1) AND ENGAGE IN A THOUGHTFUL EXPLORATION WITH US? WHAT IF THERE WERE RULES PROTECTING EVERYONE’S HUMAN RIGHTS, CONTRACTS, PROPERTY ETC. BUT NO RULERS WITH AGGREGATED RIGHTS TO TAKE MONEY, WAGE WAR, BAIL OUT CRONIES ETC.? REMEMBER THE “NATION STATE” IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE VIOLENCE AGAINST ITS OWN PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER ENTITY IN HISTORY.
    Thrive solution: All corruption is the fault of the “Global Domination Elite.” Rise up against them and destroy them, and everything will be fine.
    FG – OF COURSE IT IS NOT “ALL CORRUPTION.” BUT THE BIGGEST AND MEANEST TRACES BACK TO THEM TIME AFTER TIME. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WITH ENOUGH POWER IN PLACE TO BE SO VASTLY CRUEL. “DESTROY THEM?” I NEVER SAID THAT AND NO ONE CAN FIND A PLACE WHERE WE HAVE EVER SUGGESTED THAT. OBSOLETE THEM? ABSOLUTELY! AND SOME TRUTH, RECONCILIATION, RESTORATION AND PROSECUTION TO GO WITH IT!
    Problem: disease in the developing world.
    Real solution: Develop medical technology and healthy vaccines, and put social and political institutions in place to distribute medical care to as many people as possible.
    Thrive solution: Vaccines are evil tools of the “Global Domination Elite” and should be banned.
    FG – I NEVER SAID ALL VACCINES ARE EVIL TOOLS. I SAID MANY VACCINES ARE DANGEROUS AND THEY HAVE ALSO OFTEN BEEN USED TO HIDE TOXINS AND ENDOCRINE DISRUPTORS, LIKE MERCURY, SQUALENE AND MORE, AND USED TO SICKEN OR STERILIZE COVERTLY. THIS IS FULLY DOCUMENTED ON OUR SITE. PLEASE DO YOUR HOMEWORK IF YOU ARE GOING TO SPEAK PUBLICLY AT SUCH A CRITICAL AND DANGEROUS TIME.
    Problem: anthropogenic global warming.
    Real solution: Massive worldwide mobilization by governments and business interests to develop clean technology as rapidly as possible, reduce carbon emissions and mitigate areas impacted by global warming disasters. International cooperation on political, economic, and scientific levels.
    FG – AH…DEVELOP CLEAN TECHNOLOGY! AND IN ADDITION TO THE SOLAR, WIND AND GEO THERMAL (ALL GREAT – MY HOME RUNS ON SOLAR – BUT EACH TAKES SUBSTANTIAL RESOURCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE TO BUILD AND OPERATE). WHAT IF DEVICES HARMONIOUSLY TAPPING THE LIFE FORCE – RATHER THAN RADIATION – ALREADY EXIST AND ARE BEING REPRESSED AS COUNTLESS EYE WITNESSES AND COURT CASES AND GAG ORDERS ATTEST? WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN THAT? IF IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ON, THAT’S FINE- BUT WE DO. WHY IS IT EITHER/OR? ISN’T THIS THE BLACK AND WHITE THINKING YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OF?
    Thrive solution: The problem does not exist. Global warming is a hoax, a sham and a conspiracy by the “Global Domination Elite.”
    FG – THIS IS AN UTTERLY FALSE CLAIM. WE DO NOT BELIEVE AND HAVE NEVER SAID THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX. WE SAID AND DO BELIEVE THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS USED AS AN EXCUSE FOR THE GLOBAL TAX. NOTE THE DISTINCTION. THAT THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING IS NOT IN QUESTION- IT’S WHAT IS CAUSING IT, WHAT SHOULD COMMUNITIES BE DONG TO PREPARE, AND HOW CAN WE STOP IT FROM BEING USED TO CONVINCE GOOD PEOPLE TO SUPPORT A TAX TO FUND THEIR OWN DEMISE.
    GLACIERS DON’T MELT ON THEIR OWN. AND WE NEED TO STOP POLLUTING OUR ATMOSPHERE – AS THE ALTERNATIVE ENERGY DEVICES WOULD ACCOMPLISH FASTER THAN ANYTHING. (ALONG WITH PROSECUTING THE INDIVIDUALS RUNNING THE CORPORATIONS WHO ARE DOING IT.)
    I AM ASTONISHED THAT JUST QUESTIONING IF THE SUN IS PLAYING A ROLE IN THE WARMING AND WANTING TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE ON THE SUBJECT HAS HAD YOU AND OTHERS WRITE US OFF AS CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS. THIS IS A CRITICAL ISSUE AND SOME DISCTINCTION HERE WOULD GO A LONG WAY. CLEARLY PEOPLE NEED TO STOP POLLUTING. OUR WORK WITH FREE ENERGY IS IN PART TO HELP IN THIS REGARD.
    BUT IT IS A FACT THAT THERE ARE OTHER PLANETS IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM WHICH ARE WARMING ALSO, AND I DON’T THINK IT’S OUR CARS AND FACTORIES THAT ARE DOING THAT. WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT THE INTERFACE OF HUMAN AND COSMIC FORCES WITH REGARD TO OUR PLANET’S CLIMATE. FOR REAL SELF-DEFENSE…AN ACCURATE AND THOROUGH ASSESSMENT OF REALITY MUST COME FIRST…NOT PARTY POLITICS OR CLAIMING ALL SICIENTISTS AGREE WHEN AT LEAST 31,000 CREDIBLE SCIENTISTS, MANY FORMER AGW ADVOCATES HAVE COME OUT AGAINST THE THEORY THAT HUMANS ARE THE SOLE CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE.
    NO MATTER WHAT THE CAUSE, IT IS HAPPENING, AND WE NEED TO STOP HUMAN-CAUSED POLLUTION – BUT NOT BY LETTING THE CORPORATIONS AND THE RICH BUY THEIR WAY OUT AND THEN TAX PEOPLE TO CREATE THEIR GLOBAL POLICE STATE!
    I AM AFRAID THAT IF WE STAND AROUND BICKERING WE MISS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR COMMUNITIES AROUND THE WORLD TO PREPARE ADEQUATELY FOR CLIMATE CHANGE THAT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO BE AVERTED BECAUSE EITHER 1. IT IS CAUSED BY WHERE WE ARE IN OUR CURRENT ORBIT IN RELATION TO THE SUN OR 2. CARBON TAX AND OTHER INNANE RESPONSES ARE INADEQUATE TO MEET THE CHALLENGE IN TIME. IN EITHER CASE, WE NEED TO BE STRATEGIZING TOGETHER AND SUPPORTING THE INVENTORS WHO ARE DEVELOPING THE NEW TECHNOLOGIES- LIKE FREE ENERGY- THAT CAN TRULY IMPACT THIS IN THE SHORT TERM.
    I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET A SINGLE PERSON WHO IS IRREVOCABLY IDENTIFIED WITH A PARTICULAR POLITICAL PARTY TO ENTER INTO A MEANINGFUL DEBATE ABOUT ALL OF THIS…STARTING WITH SERIOUS RESEARCH FROM ALL PERSPECTIVES AND ADDRESSING AT LEAST THESE QUESTIONS:
    What is causing other planets in our solar system to warm at the same time as our planet?
    What caused the medieval warming period?
    Why can’t polluters be prosecuted directly instead of letting the corporations buy their way out of responsibility with cap and trade?
    Are you aware of the plan to make carbon credits the new “one-world currency”?
    Why doesn’t someone like Al Gore debate someone like Bjorn Lomborg or anyone publicly?
    Why does Gore not mention that in his hockey stick graph the rise in temperature precedes the CO2 instead of vice versa? Since this was pointed out he refuses to discuss it.
    Is it possible that the good intentions of environmentalists are being manipulated to create a global tax paid to the world bank that would transcend national sovereignty and fund the one-world government?

    FG – WHAT INTERESTS ME IS AN OPEN, HUMBLE EXPLORATION OF THIS CRITICAL AND VAST ISSUE.

    Do you see how this works? This is why Thrive is worth speaking out against.
    FG – YES, I HOPE THIS IS BEING HELPFUL FOR YOUR READERS IN SEEING HOW THIS WORKS, WHAT THRIVE IS REALLY ALL ABOUT AND WHY I AM TAKING THE TIME TO ADDRESS SOME OF YOUR CARELESS MISREPRESENTATION.
    One Last Example: the HAARP Earthquake Machine.
    A totally shocking detail included in Mr. Robbins’s letter is his statement of Foster Gamble’s statements about the Fukushima earthquake and tsunami which devastated Japan early last year. Mr. Robbins says, “He has said that “they” have a machine in Alaska that enables them to create earthquakes at will, anywhere on earth, and of any desired strength.”
    This is a very old conspiracy theory called HAARP. You can read a debunking of HAARP conspiracy theories from noted skeptic Brian Dunning here. It’s one of the stupidest, most irrational and most paranoid conspiracy theories out there, but many people, unfortunately, believe it. I didn’t know until I saw Mr. Robbins’s letter that Foster Gamble has expressed belief in HAARP, but it doesn’t surprise me. It’s also a perfect illustration of how conspiracy theories, once they get inside a person’s head, can totally corrode their ability to think rationally about world problems.
    If people who believed in HAARP had any significant positions of power, what sort of world would we have? An earthquake and tsunami in Japan, caused by tectonic stresses and geologic processes, would be interpreted through the lens of this conspiracy theory as a man-made act of war, quite naturally inviting some sort of retaliation or response. If Foster Gamble could identify a specific individual or groups of individuals that he thought caused the Fukushima disaster, I would venture a guess that he would want those individuals to be held accountable in some way. This is in the total absence of any evidence whatsoever that an earthquake and tsunami in Japan was caused by HAARP.
    Can you see how dangerous this type of thinking is? Furthermore, does the fact that this sort of thinking is on the rise scare you as much as it scares me?
    FG – THIS IS A GOOD ONE TO END ON BECAUSE IT EXPOSES SO CLEARLY THE LACK OF RESEARCH THAT YOU DO, OR WORSE, THE AGENDA THAT YOU MAY HAVE. HAARP IS NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY OR A BELIEF. IT IS A GOVERNMENT / CORPORATE OWNED ANTENNA ARRAY IN ALASKA – THE LARGEST OF ITS KIND IN THE WORLD.
    HAARP CAN FOCUS 3.6 BILLION WATTS OF RADIO-FREQUENCY ENERGY INTO A SINGLE AREA OF THE ATMOSPHERE. WE NEVER SAID WE THOUGHT HAARP WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR JAPAN’S QUAKE. IN FACT, WHAT WE SAID IS THAT WE CHECK INTO MAJOR EARTHQUAKES NOW THAT WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH HAARP’S INVOLVEMENT IN CAUSING OTHER QUAKES. WE CURRENTLY HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF HAARP CAUSING JAPAN’S EARTHQUAKE, HOWEVER, THERE IS AMPLE EVIDENCE OF HAARP INVOLVEMENT IN BOTH THE CHILE AND HAITI QUAKES.

    BOTH THE CHILE AND HAITI QUAKES IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED MAXIMUM CHARGING OF THE HAARP ANTENNA – WHICH WAS CUT OFF JUST AS THE QUAKES STARTED. IN THE CASE OF HAITI, THE US JUST HAPPENED TO HAVE 10,000 TROOPS AT THE SOUTHERN TIP OF FLORIDA WHO MOVED QUICKLY TO TAKE OVER THE HAITIAN CAPITOL AIRPORT. CLINTON AND BUSH SR. TOOK OVER THE RELIEF EFFORT, WHICH HAS DONE LITTLE. MEANWHILE, THE GOLD AND OIL DISCOVERED IN A RECENT RESOURCE ASSESSMENT BY PRESIDENT ARISTEDE BEFORE HE WAS OUSTED IN A CIA-BACKED COUP, ARE NOW LOOKING LIKE THEY WILL END UP IN THE COFFERS OF THE NORTHERN ELITE. THERE ARE MANY PICTURES, PATENTS, VIDEOS, BOOKS, CONTRACTS ETC. WHICH PROVE HAARP’S EXISTENCE – MANY OF WHICH ARE AVAILABLE HERE ON THE THRIVE WEBSITE: http://WWW.THRIVEMOVEMENT.COM/HUMAN-GEO-ENGINEERING-CHEMTRAILS-AND-HAARP.
    WE SPENT A DECADE DOING ALL OF THIS TO SAVE LIVES AND TO SAVE PEOPLE TIME. WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO USE IT.

    PERHAPS THEN WE CAN GET ON WITH AN INFORMED AND RESPECTFUL DIALOG THAT CAN REALLY HELP GENERATE EFFECTIVE SOLUTIONS FOR THRIVING.

    • SlayerX3 says :

      I could go through the beginning of your comment I couldn’t bear to read rest and had to the the TL;DR route because your comment was almost entirely written ALL IN CAPS !

    • internetjimjesus says :

    • muertos says :

      Mr. Gamble, thank you for your response to my letter. I will have a more detailed reply coming soon.

    • jon says :

      1.) Minimal government.
      2.) Eradicate central banking.
      3.) Eliminate public education.
      4.) Allow unrestrained free-market capitalism to flourish.
      5.) Imprison anyone who infringes on the liberty of someone else.
      6.) End offensive war.
      7.) Sound money.
      8.) Return the legal system to the US Constitution.

      9.) Re-educate brainwashed Americans that haven’t the slightest clue why steps 1-8 are all that are necessary.

      Real solutions means the antithesis of massive bureaucratic solutions.

      • muertos says :

        These “solutions” are prescriptions for the suicide of a free society, and the foundation of a nightmarish, paranoid and thoroughly nihilistic world far more oppressive and ugly than anything Orwell could have imagined. If this is what you think will help the world become a better place, you’re seriously out of touch with reality.

  12. SlayerX3 says :

    *couldn’t bear to read the rest and had to take the TL;DR route*

  13. DiscoPro_Joe says :

    You wouldn’t believe the number of people I’ve met who view me with utter contempt, just because I *don’t* share most of their conspiracy beliefs. And this is in spite of the fact that I’m a staunch libertarian and goldbug, and am a huge fan of natural and holistic health practices.

    But, I guess those things don’t matter to fanatical conspiracy theorists.

  14. Ron says :

    It’s clear that conspiracy theories are your “them” and accepting what the establishment says at face value (or as you define it “factual evidence) is your ax to grind. Thrive is far from perfect. I’m sure Mr. Gamble is far from perfect. I’m sure all Mr. Gamble’s interviewees are less than perfect. Your intellectual and well-written critiques are punctuated by your ad hominem attacks of “conspriacy theorist” and “global warming denier”. People have a right to disagree about how we got to where we are. The fact is Mr. Gamble made an effort to start a process of making change. His solutions are outstanding. Perhaps, we should focus on them instead of creating “debunking” sites that amount to the establishment’s own version of conspiracy theory.

  15. Mycenae says :

    Okay, to begin with, I agree with you that Thrive could have toned down the conspiracy theories. I think you go a bit far in demonizing conspiracy theories, but I basically agree with that particular criticism, and it’s my main criticism of Thrive. Aside from that, however, I found Thrive to be quite inspirational, it lines up with my own beliefs, and I think it provides a good model for making the world a better place. I am also interested in what Gamble and Adam Trombley has to say about free energy, I’ve done some additional research on it, and I plan to do more.

    I appreciate your willingness to engage in civil discussion on the issues surrounding Thrive. However, I have some concerns about your credibility. It appears to me that you are pretty much repeating talking points used by the current political establishment; this is evident in your uncritical dismissal of alternative explanations for climate change and your vague appeal that we should “build better government,” which frankly sounds like you just took one of the Democratic Party’s talking points and recycled it. You also indicate in this article (https://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/global-domination-agenda-debunked/) that you support the PATRIOT Act, or at the very least do not view it as a threat to freedom. I quote:

    “The PATRIOT Act was passed 10 years ago, with all these expansive powers that have very seldom, if ever, been used in the past ten years. Some of its provisions have been used against suspected terrorists—but if the GDE really intended the PATRIOT Act as a major tool of oppression, why haven’t courts and enforcement officials been making more and ever-increasing use of it?”

    Arguing against global warming skepticism is one thing. But no one on either side of the political aisle seriously believes that the PATRIOT Act is anything less than a fundamental threat to our freedoms — no one except propaganda spokespeople working for the political elite and the corporate media. You’ll understand if I have some concerns about this position of yours.

    In addition, you have claimed multiple times that Foster Gamble is against the official theory of global warming. Are you referring to what he says in Thrive, or are you referring to other statements that he’s made? Because if you are implying the former, then this claim is blatantly false.

    • muertos says :

      Thank you for your comment.

      You are totally wrong about my conception of the PATRIOT Act. I do not support it. I think it’s a terrible law that should never have been passed. I opposed it in 2001 and I oppose it today. That said, it’s totally incorrect for conspiracy nutters to claim that it’s “evidence” of some “Global Domination Agenda.” That’s a totally ridiculous and unsupportable claim. I don’t need to support the PATRIOT Act substantively to point this out. You’re simply mistaken here.

      As for Foster Gamble’s stance on climate change, it’s very clear that he is a global warming denier. He claims he’s not by stating that he doesn’t deny that the Earth’s climate is getting hotter–he’s just denying that it’s human beings who are causing it. This is a distinction without any meaningful difference–it’s sort of like O.J. Simpson acknowledging that Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were murdered, and then claiming that he’s still “looking for the real killers.”

      Does Mr. Gamble really think that this stance is going to fool anybody? Really?

      Anyone who denies the settled scientific fact that human activity is the chief cause of climate change is a global warming denier and a conspiracy theorist. Think about it. If you deny that human beings are causing climate change, you’re asserting that it’s a natural process, and human agency in combating global warming becomes not only superfluous, but actually harmful. By saying “I acknowledge global warming, but I question what’s causing it,” Foster Gamble is making an argument for ignoring the fact that warming is occurring.

      Human beings are causing climate change. Period. No question. No doubt. No lack of consensus. It is settled. It is fact. It is beyond reasonable doubt. I’ve seen the evidence myself–the raw data, which is out there in the open, totally available to anyone who chooses to investigate it. I’ve spent months investigating it for myself. The raw data is clear and unequivocal. There is no other conclusion anyone can possibly reach. Foster Gamble hopes to fool people into thinking that his stance on global warming is somehow reasonable or supportable. It is not reasonable. It is not supportable. It flies in the face of all legitimate scientific analysis. He is denying scientific fact, just as sure as if he claimed gravity did not exist or that the sun goes around the earth.

      So what’s next–Foster Gamble is going to claim that gravity is a conspiracy by the “Global Domination Agenda”?

      • Mycenae says :

        In Thrive, Gamble generally assumes that global warming is caused by humans. From some of the other quotes you’ve posted on here, it looks like he’s neutral on the issue and wants an open dialog, and he doesn’t support attacking people for thinking it might not be caused by humans — I think that this is a pretty reasonable position.

        It’s good to know that you don’t actually support the PATRIOT Act, but you do not seem to be aware of the trend toward totalitarian government we’ve been on since 9/11. For one thing, the PATRIOT hasn’t just been used against terrorists, as you claim; it’s actually been used repeated to target activists. I’ve even heard from activists saying that protesting has been more difficult since 9/11. There are also numerous other laws which were passed during the Bush administration which have stripped away civil liberties, including FISA, the Military Commissions Act, and one law they tried to pass saying people could be charged as terrorists simply for being against the government. After the economic crash in 2008, troops were deployed throughout the United States to police our streets, and people in Congress were told that if they didn’t pass TARP, martial law was going to be declared. Dick Cheney also started the practice of targeting people for assassination without trial, which Obama has now become notorious for.

        So you really can’t deny that we’ve been on a consistent trend which is turning America into a police state. I don’t know if it’s caused by some global conspiracy or not, but you can’t deny that it’s happening.

      • muertos says :

        Actually, I do deny that we’ve “been on a consistent trend which is turning America into a police state.”

        How many people do you know who have been charged as terrorists for simply being against the government? How many people do you know who have been detained without trial or brought before a military commission? How many troops did you see patrolling the streets after the economic crash in 2008? I lived in a major metropolitan area and worked in a central business district during the 2008 economic crash. I did not see a single uniformed troop patrolling anything.

        How many times have police or military personnel arrested you, personally, for your political or personal beliefs? How many of your family members have been detained, jailed or shot? How much of your property has been expropriated by force? How many of your friends have disappeared without explanation? How many books have you been forbidden to read? How many times has your church been closed down by order of the government? This is the kind of thing that happens in a police state.

        Which people have Obama targeted for assassination without trial? Oh, you mean Osama bin Laden? Yeah, his assassination sure turned America into a police state, didn’t it? We killed a terrorist, not an American citizen, who had attacked the United States. Oh my, what an egregious abuse of civil liberties! What an outrage! What tyranny!

        So yes, I can and do deny that “it” (turning America into a police state) is happening.

      • Mycenae says :

        “Which people have Obama targeted for assassination without trial? Oh, you mean Osama bin Laden? Yeah, his assassination sure turned America into a police state, didn’t it? We killed a terrorist, not an American citizen, who had attacked the United States. Oh my, what an egregious abuse of civil liberties! What an outrage! What tyranny!”

        Actually, no, Osama bin Laden is not the only one who’s been targeted for assassination. There have been multiple cases where Obama has ordered American citizens to be taken out by drones, without any trial whatsoever. No one has even been allowed to represent them in court, because in order to represent a terrorist suspect, you need permission from the government.

        This is a fairly mainstream fact which anyone who does the research should be able to confirm, and people both on the left and on the right have called Obama out on this. People in both parties are also concerned that America is, in fact, turning into a police state. And I’m not talking about hardcore conspiracy theorists either. I’m talking about people on the mainstream left, and in the Tea Party.

      • muertos says :

        You haven’t answered any of my questions.

        –How many people whom you personally know have been charged as terrorists for simply being against the government?
        –How many people whom you know have been detained without trial or brought before a military commission?
        –How many troops did you see patrolling the streets after the economic crash in 2008? Please provide an exact number.
        –How many times have you been arrested and charged with terrorism as a result of your political beliefs?
        –How many of your family members have been detailed, jailed or shot?
        –How many books have you been forbidden to read?
        –How many times has your church been closed down by order of the government?

        My guess is that the closest you’ve ever gotten to a “police state” is a pat-down at the airport by a TSA agent. That’s annoying, intrusive and insulting, but it’s not even close to a “police state.”

        Try living in Czechoslovakia in the 60s. That’s a “police state.” What we have today is not a “police state,” nor is it anywhere even arguably close.

      • Mycenae says :

        I never said that we are currently living in sixties Czechoslovakia. I said we’re heading in that direction and that, legally speaking, we’re pretty much there. This stuff might not be happening on regular basis right now, but if we keep going the way we’re going, that’s where we’re going to end up.

      • Mycenae says :

        Tell me this story isn’t the sort of thing that would happen in sixties Czechoslovakia:

        http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/05/19/nato-3-came-to-chicago-to-commit-terrorist-acts-of-violence-cpd-fbi-secret-service-claim/

  16. Frankie says :

    Honestly.. if Mr. Foster wasnt a compiracist… we might have had another Carl Sagan.. Imagine if Dr. Sagan wasted his time with conspiracies! that would surely suck

  17. AeolusRIder says :

    Hmmmm. I never saw the promised detailed response to Foster Gambles remarks of May 4, 2012. Other than some complaints about using the CAPs which is the norm when responding to questions so as to keep things separate.
    There has been a lot of water under the bridge since last year, Obama re-elected, DHS buying up enormous amounts of ammunition ( hollow points for target practice? ), Benghazi.. ( buy back of stinger missiles cover up ), IRS targeting of conservative groups, DOJ targeting of AP reporters and even FOX news reports. But don’t worry folks, these are just conspiracies. Let’s see, what else is going be revealed? They are conspiracies when they are true.
    Oh, yeah, it’s not just the Earth warming up, its the entire Solar System. Mars polar caps shrinking. Damn martian SUV’s you know…..

    • AeolusRIder says :

      Ooops. Refaced. Found the response…. Kind of like that writer for John Stewart who twittered about the Tornadoes in Oklahoma the other day before realizing that people had been killed. This is not as bad but still embarrassing.🙂.

  18. internetjimjesus says :

    Cool, nothing like getting a stream of crazy in your inbox from Thrivetards in denial. Now to figure out how to disable e-mail notifications.

  19. AeolusRIder says :

    LOL. Nice Ad Hominem attacks. This site has been debunked. adios.

    • anticultist says :

      The only thing you managed to debunk was yourself with your attraction to pseudoscience and inability to discern fact from fiction.

  20. Jason P says :

    Why is it when someone comes up with an alternative medicine or energy it’s aggressively boo-hoo’d & cried down?

    • a rational person says :

      hmm, maybe its because when someone comes up with this crap it always turns out to be crazy woo bullshit that can’t be proven and usually violates the laws of science?

      whaddaya think, hoss?

    • anticultist says :

      Because dear Jason there is a thing called evidence that is required, this is the basic premise of anything that claims scientific superiority over previous evidenced facts.

      • Jason P says :

        I’ve not seen the film yet, probably wont bother now after reading the reviews. I just noticed a trend attacking alternative beliefs. It’s true they loose all credibility when they start going on about fairies, clairvoyance & spaceships. Maybe these nonsense conspiracy theories are chucked in the arena to distract from the true conspiracy that hydrogen, water & the sun are fairly cheap renewable sources & will last as long as life.

      • anticultist says :

        Yeah the film is really badly stitched together ideas, all of them are conspiracy theories from various fields of thought, all of them knocked together with new age thought and government agendas.

        Quite honestly it’s just another in a long line of bad documentaries that appeals to people’s fantasies under the guise of researched information. The reality is something different, it’s just a made up story board of bad materials.

      • Jason P says :

        Horrendous. Gonna give it a skip. Can’t stand mainstream flying saucer nonsense! Thanks for debunking🙂

    • Mr. Anon says :

      Generally, when something is mocked by the scientific community, it isn’t because there’s some conspiracy to destroy competing beliefs. It’s often because those beliefs are based on very flawed evidence, rely on leaps of logic, and fly in the face of the scientific method. In short, when something is mocked by the scientific community, it’s usually because it is worth mocking.

      • Jason P says :

        Yawn! what a boring answer. It’s been debunked, I’m not watching the film. Move on…

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