Global Domination Agenda–Debunked!

Contents

  • What is the “Global Domination Agenda”?
  • The Central Assumption Behind The Theory.
  • A diagram: the “Global Domination Agenda” and its logical links.
  • Example One: “The GDE deliberately created the global economic crisis!”
  • Example Two: “George H.W. Bush said he was instituting the New World Order!”
  • Example Three: “But the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission are real! You can’t claim they don’t exist!”
  • Mistaking Political/Economic Power or Social Status for “Evidence” of GDE.
  • A Logic Game: The Neighborhood Watch.
  • Questions Believers in “Global Domination Agenda” Should Ask Themselves.
  • So if there’s no GDE and the “Global Domination Agenda” doesn’t exist, who does rule the world?
  • You call this a “debunking”? You haven’t disproved the Global Domination Agenda at all!
  • Conclusion

One of the central messages of the Thrive movie—indeed, arguably the central message—is the assertion that the world is controlled by a conspiratorial group of persons, entities and business interests who are pursuing goals inimical to the best interests of humanity. On the Thrive website, this conspiracy theory is referred to as the “Global Domination Agenda,” though there are many permutations of this conspiracy theory which go by many different names. This article will debunk the notion that the world is controlled by a unified group pursuing a “Global Domination Agenda,” at least as that concept is elucidated in the Thrive movie.

Debunking “Global Domination Agenda” is at once simple and very complicated. The simple answer is, there is not a shred of evidence to support the existence of this conspiracy theory. However, explaining how and why this is so, and why it is illogical to believe in the existence of a “Global Domination Agenda,” is more complicated. It also involves the exact sort of reasoning and argumentation that is least likely to satisfy believers in this conspiracy theory.

This is a lengthy article. Before we begin, I’d like to ask all persons who intend to post comments on this article to read the entire thing before making comments. Please don’t raise an objection in the comments that’s already covered by the main bulk of the article.

What is the “Global Domination Agenda”? 

For purposes of this article I will refer to the conspiracy theory at issue as the “Global Domination Agenda,” because that’s the term used by the makers of the Thrive movie. I conceive of this conspiracy theory as being essentially synonymous with the idea of the “Illuminati” or the “New World Order,” both much more popular terms than “Global Domination Agenda.” Exactly what this conspiracy theory means, and what its details are, differ widely depending on who believes it. It’s impossible to come up with a description of this conspiracy theory that takes into account all permutations of it; however, the most commonly agreed-upon features of the theory generally hold: 

  1. That a group of persons, entities and business interests exert total, or at least significant, control over international relations, economics, media and technology on a global scale;
  2. That this group has some sort of internal unity—i.e., that its actors are working in concert toward a common goal or goals; and
  3. That either the direct goal of this group, or the effect of their goals, is to consolidate dictatorial power over all, most, or a significant portion of the world’s people.

Believers in a “Global Domination Agenda” are probably the most intractable and unyielding of all conspiracy theorists. Many debunkers simply throw up their hands when confronted with a believer in this theory, because it’s virtually impossible to convince them that this conspiracy theory is illogical and completely unsupported by evidence. Nevertheless, a full debunking of the Thrive film wouldn’t be complete without at least an attempt at addressing this conspiracy theory. Therefore, we will try to analyze why people believe in this conspiracy theory and what can be done to demonstrate that the “Global Domination Agenda” does not exist. 

The Central Assumption Behind The Theory. 

At its core, the “Global Domination Agenda” conspiracy theory is an assumption. Conspiracy believers simply assume that points 1, 2, and 3 are true. Once they make this assumption, virtually anything they see they will interpret as “evidence” supporting the truth of points 1, 2 and 3. Basically, they think it’s true because it’s true. The circular and self-reinforcing nature of the assumption admits no outside stimulus that can either support or refute the points of the assumption. 

How do we know that a group of persons, entities and business interests exert total, or at least significant, control over international relations, economics, media and technology on a global scale? Because they do, and if you don’t agree, you’re a blind brainwashed sheeple. How do we know that this group has some sort of internal unity—i.e., that its actors are working in concert toward a common goal or goals? Because they are, and if you don’t agree, you haven’t done your research. How do we know that that either the direct goal of this group, or the effect of their goals, is to consolidate dictatorial power over all, most, or a significant portion of the world’s people? Because it is. Wake up! 

This is a difficult point to grasp. At the risk of making this more complicated than it is, I’ll attempt to demonstrate it graphically. 

A diagram: the “Global Domination Agenda” and its logical links. 

Let us map out how this system would work if the “Global Domination Agenda” was true. A graph of it would look like a pyramid. There would have to be some sort of unified command, a group of ultimate decision-makers, at the very top. Let’s call this the “Global Domination Elite” or GDE for short (a term I just made up, but call it what you want—Illuminati, NWO, reptilians, whatever). There would have to be connections of some type between the GDE and the persons, entities, governments etc. that they use to do their bidding. Let’s call that layer the “Action Elements.” There would have to be connections of some type between the Action Elements and the individual acts or conditions that they create—the “Results” layer.

 

[Click to see a larger version.]

In order to prove that the “Global Domination Agenda” is true, you need to prove (I) that each layer of this pyramid exists; and (II) the connections between each layer. Without both I or II, the very idea of a “Global Domination Agenda” collapses. 

Believers in the “Global Domination Agenda” simply assume that I and II are either already proven, are self-evident, or can be proven by evidence that in fact does not point to either I or II. 

I don’t expect this statement to make much sense without concrete examples. So, we’ll get to some. 

Example One: “The GDE deliberately created the global economic crisis!” 

This type of claim is very common among “Global Domination Agenda” believers. In fact it is presumed in Thrive that the GDE deliberately tanked the world’s economy as part of whatever their plan is supposed to be. If you ask a “Global Domination Agenda” believer to prove this, he or she will usually offer two types of “evidence”: 

1. Links to news articles about wrongdoing by mortgage bankers, irresponsible economic decisions by governments or corporations, or trends about worsening economic conditions like foreclosure or unemployment.

2. Statements of opinion, often made by other conspiracy theorists, that the GDE or persons working for them created the economic crisis. 

But note what’s really happening. News articles about bad economic decisions, corporate malfeasance etc. only prove the existence of the results—not the cause, not the connections between the various layers of the pyramid. That sort of evidence goes to prove only these parts of the diagram…

 

[click to see larger] …not these.

 Think about it. A CNN.com news article that Acme Megabank made a series of disastrous loans between 2000 and 2008, when they should have known better, does not prove the connection between Acme Megabank and the GDE. All it proves is that Acme Megabank made a series of disastrous loans when they should have known better. An article about how youth unemployment is at 30% and getting worse does not prove the connection between the employers who are refusing to offer jobs to young people and the GDE. All it proves is that there’s a youth unemployment problem. But we know that already.

Proving one set of connections and then the other doesn’t work either. Thus, proving that the former CEO of Acme Megabank is now Assistant Secretary of the Treasury does not make the connection, because you still haven’t proven that Acme Megabank acted on the GDE’s orders to make those disastrous loans. You have to prove connection from the bottom up—from the result all the way up to the GDE. 

Furthermore, statements of opinion, or unsourced assertions, by other conspiracy theorists—“Guess what? The directors of Acme Megabank made those disastrous loans on purpose to further the Global Domination Agenda!”—similarly proves nothing. It does not prove the existence of the GDE, nor the connections between the GDE and the Action Elements. All it proves is that somebody thinks there are connections. But that is not proof that the connections exist.

Indeed, these pieces of “evidence” are totally meaningless unless you already accept the assumption that the “Global Domination Agenda” exists. Then, and only then, do they become relevant. This is an other illustration of the point that the “Global Domination Agenda” conspiracy theory operates on totally circular logic. 

Example Two: “George H.W. Bush said he was instituting the New World Order!” 

Believers in the “Global Domination Agenda,” when they are not providing “evidence” along the lines discussed above, will sometimes point to “incriminating” statements by persons they believe to be part of the GDE, supposedly indicating an “admission” of their true agenda. One of the favorites in this category is a speech made on March 6, 1991 by President George H.W. Bush in which he used the words “New World Order.” Supposedly this indicates an “admission” that the New World Order, as conceived by conspiracy theorists, exists, and that Bush was one of the people trying to implement it.

But does it, though? I doubt most conspiracy theorists have actually read Bush’s speech, in which he outlined his vision of a world following the Persian Gulf War. Here is the full text (http://millercenter.org/president/speeches/detail/3430). He does in fact use the words “new world order.” But, if you read the full speech—I won’t excerpt it here because I encourage you to read it for yourself—it’s very clear he’s not talking about global domination. He’s talking about a vision for foreign policy which, ironically, ultimately did not come to pass. How, then, does this prove the existence of a “Global Domination Agenda”?

Time and time again, believers in a “Global Domination Agenda” will serve up these sorts of tidbits, which do not stand for the propositions they claim they stand for. (At least Bush’s “New World Order” speech is real, even though it doesn’t say what they think he said. Often, quotes by high-ranking figures used by conspiracy theorists are simply false. For example, the Thrive movie claims that Henry Kissinger makes an ominous-sounding statement. I cannot find any reputable source—meaning, not another conspiracy theorist website—that even indicates Kissinger ever said this.) 

Example Three: “But the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission are real! You can’t claim they don’t exist!” 

Yes, the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderberg Group exist. But their simple existence does not prove the existence of the GDE or the “Global Domination Agenda.” Very often believers in conspiracy theorists will cite the mere existence of these groups as supposed evidence of their claims. This ignores that, again, an assumption is being made: that these groups really do have the power and the characteristics that believers in a “Global Domination Agenda” claim that they do. 

The Bilderberg Group is a rotating conference of politicians, business leaders and intellectuals who meet informally to discuss affairs of the world. The membership changes frequently, but usually includes high-ranking government officials, CEOs, etc. The Bilderberg Group has no official power. It controls no army, it can neither make nor enforce laws, and has no formal status under any government in the world. It’s a think tank. Its members talk about things they think their countries should be doing, but little else. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group 

The Trilateral Commission is a group of businesspersons who get together to discuss business relations between America, Europe and Japan. Like Bilderberg, it is populated by wealthy people who have a lot of influence. Also like Bilderberg, it has no official power, controls no army, can neither make nor enforce law, and has no formal status under any government in the world. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission 

Most believers in the “Global Domination Agenda” conspiracy theory believe these groups are either the GDE or members of it. They routinely cite the mere existence of these groups as affirmative evidence n favor of the “Global Domination Agenda.” 

What’s missing here is any evidence that these groups have the influence or power that the believers in a Global Domination Agenda say they have. Not a single shred of evidence has ever been produced that these groups have any power at all! The fact that they are made up by influential people, and that they discuss world problems, are the sole basis for conspiracy theorists’ claims that they control the world. In fact, while individual members of these groups may have significant power in their own governments or organizations, there is a complete lack of evidence that matters discussed or recommendations made by these groups have ever translated directly into policy. And yes, we do know what they discuss. Search WikiLeaks for “Bilderberg Minutes.” You can download hundreds of pages of extremely boring policy discussions. Not one of them proves conspiracy theorists’ claims. 

Where is the proof of control? Where is the proof of influence and power? 

Indeed, as with most “evidence” proffered by believers in the “Global Domination Agenda,” what they say and what they can actually prove are very far apart. However, these people will often frame the argument in terms of, you cannot disprove a “Global Domination Agenda” unless you deny that the Bilderberg Group or the Trilateral Commission exists. Whether they exist is not the issue. The issue is whether they have the power that conspiracy theorists say they have. They don’t. 

Mistaking Political/Economic Power or Social Status for “Evidence” of GDE. 

Another mistake, made almost universally by believers in a “Global Domination Agenda,” is to argue that the fact that a person, corporation, or group has political power, economic power or social standing is evidence that they are in fact a member of the GDE. This is, yet again, misapplication of evidence. 

Let’s take George H.W. Bush again. I could not imagine a single believer in the “Global Domination Agenda” not believing that George H.W. Bush is a member of the GDE. 

There is no doubt that George H.W. Bush is, or at least was, a very powerful and influential person. Even before he was elected the 41st President of the United States in 1988, he was from a very rich and prominent family, had many connections among business and political leaders, and was ambitious for political power at an early age. When he was in the White House, he commanded the armed forces of the U.S. and exerted significant influence on the economy. 

But ask yourself this: why is George H.W. Bush a powerful and influential person? Is it because he is a member of the GDE? Or is it because he is from a very rich and powerful family, has many connections among business and political leaders, and held significant positions of political and economic power? 

This distinction will be lost on many believers in the “Global Domination Agenda,” but it might become a bit clearer if you ask yourself this question: 

Is it possible for any person, anywhere in the world, to rise to a position of significant political/economic power or social status, without being a member of the GDE? 

If you answered “no” to this question, you have just engaged in circular reasoning. George H.W. Bush is powerful/influential because he is a member of the GDE; because George H.W. Bush is a member of the GDE, he is therefore powerful/influential. 

See the circular reasoning there? 

If you answered “yes” to the question, then ask yourself: how can you distinguish between someone who has political/economic power or social status because he/she is a member of the GDE, or someone who has that power/status for some other reason? Chances are you won’t be able to answer that question at all. 

We do not live in a society without class or social stratification. There are powerful and influential people. Rich people and business interests do have influence on government and economic policy. But be careful that you don’t mistake evidence that these things are true for “evidence” that a “Global Domination Agenda” exists. It’s very easy to do that, especially when you’re accusing people of being members of the GDE based solely on membership in a group or family or because they hold a particular office. If you’re doing that, you’re again illustrating that all “Global Domination Agenda” theories proceed from an assumption that is never questioned. 

A Logic Game: The Neighborhood Watch.

Let’s play a little game of logic and reasoning that I hope will help illustrate both how the “Global Domination Agenda” conspiracy theory works, and why believers in it are so incredulous that it can’t be real. 

Imagine a gated community in the suburbs. Five couples live there: Alan & Bess, Charlie & Dora, Ed & Flo, Gerald & Harriet, Irving & Joyce, and Kevin & Linda. The community is a planned development with covenants and a homeowner’s association. Alan & Bess are the richest people in the community and own the biggest house. Bess is president of the homeowner’s association. 

Kevin is a conspiracy theorist. He believes in the existence of a secret group called the “Neighborhood Watch” which he thinks controls everything that happens in the community. He believes that the Neighborhood Watch intends to rule the community with an iron fist and destroy all freedom in the neighborhood. In fact, the Neighborhood Watch does not exist. 

At a homeowner’s association meeting, Bess proposes a new rule that everyone in the community must mow their lawn once a week. The group votes. Kevin & Linda are opposed, but everyone else votes yes and the rule goes into effect. Kevin believes that this vote demonstrates that the Neighborhood Watch controls the homeowner’s association, and that Bess, and probably Alan, are members of it. 

A week later, Irving & Joyce’s young son is playing in the street when he’s hit by a car and injured. At the next homeowner’s association meeting, Bess proposes a new rule that no one’s kids are allowed to play beyond the confines of their own yards. The rule passes, again with Kevin & Linda opposed. Kevin begins to tell everyone that the Neighborhood Watch deliberately lured Irving & Joyce’s son into the street so he would be hit by a car, thus giving the homeowner’s association an excuse to pass a restrictive rule. Because everyone else but Kevin & Linda voted for the rule, Kevin begins to believe that all the other couples are also members of the Neighborhood Watch. 

A week after that, Gerald is accused of sexually harassing his secretary and is fired from his job. He and Harriet can no longer afford their mortgage, so they have to move out. They sell their house to Alan & Bess who buy it for a song. Kevin begins to tell people that the Neighborhood Watch framed Gerald for sexual harassment, so he would lose his job and have to sell out of the neighborhood. 

A week after that, it rains heavily. All the houses in the neighborhood have faulty siding and after the rain all the siding must be replaced. As it turns out, Ed works for Acme Siding Co. and he gets a good deal for his neighbors, most of whom buy their new siding from Acme. Ed gets a fat bonus check as a result of this. 

Kevin believes that this proves that Ed is a member of the Neighborhood Watch. He now starts telling people that the Neighborhood Watch can control the weather, that they made it rain so the siding would be ruined, thus providing Ed and Acme the opportunity to make a killing by selling new siding to the neighbors. 

Alan & Bess have a dinner party where they invite Ed & Flo and Charlie & Dora. None of the other couples are invited. Kevin starts telling people that the dinner party must be the secret meeting place of the Neighborhood Watch and it is there that they must be deciding on their nefarious plans to control the community. 

Kevin says he can prove that the Neighborhood Watch secretly rules the community. What is his “proof”? The fact that Bess is influential and on the homeowner’s association; the fact that Alan & Bess are rich; the fact that Irving & Joyce’s young son got hit by a car; the fact that Gerald lost his job; the fact that Ed works for Acme Siding; and the fact that Alan & Bess had a dinner party. 

All of these facts are undeniable. What’s missing is the connection between them. Kevin has not proved—and cannot prove—that the Neighborhood Watch exists. All he can do is prove these various facts to be true, and then tell you to “connect the dots.” But the alleged “connection” between these events makes sense only if you accept Kevin’s basic assumption—which is that the Neighborhood Watch exists. If you question whether or not it exists, the facts that Kevin states suddenly don’t seem as connected as he insists that they are. 

This is exactly the reasoning engaged in by believers in the “Global Domination Agenda.”

If this Neighborhood Watch example seems pretty silly to you, it should. It’s a prime example of bad reasoning and faulty logic. But it also explains why Kevin will choose to view everything that happens in the neighborhood—every rule, every meeting, every accident, every association between everyone else—as “evidence” supporting the existence of the Neighborhood Watch. This is why believers in the “Global Domination Agenda” are shocked when you claim there is no evidence for their claims. “Look around!” they shriek, without realizing that what they think is evidence does not support what they think it supports. 

Questions Believers in “Global Domination Agenda” Should Ask Themselves. 

Here are four questions that people who believe in the “Global Domination Agenda” should ask themselves. The answers—or lack thereof—may be revealing. 

  1. Think of a specific person that you believe is a member of the GDE, i.e., a perpetrator of the “Global Domination Agenda.” What is your basis for believing that person is part of the GDE? 
  2. If the “Global Domination Agenda” exists, why is it taking so long for the GDE’s plans to be implemented?
  3. If the “Global Domination Agenda” exists, why are the GDE so incompetent?
  4.  Assuming the GDE want to take over the world, what do you think they’re going to do with it once they have it?

Let’s take the questions one by one. 

1. Think of a specific person that you believe is a member of the GDE, i.e., a perpetrator of the “Global Domination Agenda.” What is your basis for believing that person is part of the GDE? 

We touched on this with the George H.W. Bush example above. How do you know a member of the GDE when you see one? In almost all cases, the criteria for accusing someone of being a member of the GDE is based on (i) the person’s name; (ii) their job, position, wealth, or social status; or (iii) their opposition to conspiracy theories like the “Global Domination Agenda.”

Indeed, these are the only criteria that conspiracy theorists ever employ to categorize people as members of the GDE. The Thrive movie does this too, when Foster Gamble rages at the Rockefellers. The Rockefellers are rich and influential; therefore, they must, by definition, be part of the GDE. Conspiracy theorists also like to pick on people with the last names Rothschild, Du Pont, Kennedy, Bush, Vanderbilt, etc., etc. The same lack of reasoning is present with respect to a person’s job, position or social status. I’ve had more than one conspiracy theorist tell me that, because the GDE would never “allow” someone untrustworthy to become President of the United States, anyone who gets elected president is automatically a member of the GDE. If that’s not circular reasoning I don’t know what is.

Occasionally ordinary people like me are accused of being a member of the GDE, solely on the basis of my outspoken opposition to conspiracy theories. If someone doesn’t like conspiracy theories, they must be part of a conspiracy! In this vein I have been accused of being a member of the Illuminati, a CIA agent, and a Freemason. I even had one conspiracy theorist say that he felt certain I personally had a role in the September 11 attacks. Ludicrous accusations such as these are beneath comment.

The point is, there’s no rational basis for concluding that someone is a member of the GDE. Inclusion in the conspiracy depends solely on whether the person who believes in the conspiracy theory wants or needs to assume that person must be involved. There’s no rhyme or reason to it. It’s simply absurd.

2. If the “Global Domination Agenda” exists, why is it taking so long for the GDE’s plans to be implemented? 

Believers in the “Global Domination Agenda” have a hard time with this one. They talk about the awful things the GDE has done in the past, but the stress is always on the much worse things that are going to happen in the future. Various individual conspiracy theories that fit under the rubric of the “Global Domination Agenda” such as the North American Union, RFID microchipping, etc. all emphasize a future dimension. Yet the terrible future consequences never happen. They’re always going to happen, but they haven’t happened yet.

Example: FEMA camps. Supposedly the federal government is building large detention camps, run by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, where people will be sent. Oh, isn’t that awful!

How come it hasn’t happened yet? 

Indeed, Alex Jones—who is listed on the Thrive website as a resource for fighting the “Global Domination Agenda”–has been predicting horrible things for more than 10 years, including FEMA camps. They never happen. What’s taking the GDE so long? If they’ve been building those camps for 10+ years now, when are they actually going to open? 

Even past events fit this pattern. Many believers in the “Global Domination Agenda” will tell you that 9/11 was staged in order to provide an excuse for “taking away our liberties.” How did “they” (the GDE, surely) take away our liberties? By passing the PATRIOT Act, and by instituting invasive TSA searches at airports. Look! They’re taking away our liberties! 

So let me get this straight. The PATRIOT Act was passed 10 years ago, with all these expansive powers that have very seldom, if ever, been used in the past ten years. Some of its provisions have been used against suspected terrorists—but if the GDE really intended the PATRIOT Act as a major tool of oppression, why haven’t courts and enforcement officials been making more and ever-increasing use of it? I mean, why put this law into place but not use it? What is the GDE waiting for? 

Similarly, TSA searches. These were instituted in early 2011. The believers in the “Global Domination Agenda” want you to believe that the GDE, having done 9/11, waited an entire decade to institute a new type of search at security checkpoints. Assuming there’s a considerable distance remaining from invasive pat-downs at the airport to total dictatorial control over all the world’s people, it would seem that the GDE are moving very, very slowly. 

If the GDE is moving this slowly to implement their agenda, where’s the incentive for people to join the conspiracy? They’ll all be dead by the time we reach the “total world domination” stage, if we ever do. What, then, do they have to gain? Why should they commit crimes now to benefit some future generation of iron-fisted rulers who haven’t even been born yet?

This analysis gets sillier if you take into consideration that most believers in the “Global Domination Agenda” believe that the GDE has been around, and has been working on their nefarious plans, for a very long time already. The Thrive movie doesn’t talk about the “Illuminati,” but believers in that form of GDE think that a secret society founded in 1776 is the real power ruling the world. So, in addition to the dozens, scores, or perhaps hundreds of years that have yet to elapse before the GDE’s plans come to fruition, it turns out they’ve already been working on them for over 230 years!

Does this make any sense at all?

3. If the “Global Domination Agenda” exists, why are the GDE so incompetent?

This sounds like a joke, but it’s not. If this GDE is out there and really trying to enslave the world, why are they doing such a terrible job of it? Indeed, it would seem, with as many holes in their plans, that they’re totally incompetent.

After all, “Global Domination Agenda” believers are asking you to accept that a group of all-powerful conspirators is tightening their grip over the entire world, but yet

  • …Foster Gamble is allowed to blow the whistle on their agenda with his Thrive movie and website.
  • …Alex Jones is allowed to screech, grunt and wail about their agenda every single week on his radio show.
  • …Charlie Sheen and Rosie O’Donnell are allowed to make fools of themselves peddling “9/11 Inside Job” crap on their TV shows and in interviews.
  • …Bernie Madoff, undoubtedly a member of the GDE, is allowed to be caught red-handed in his Ponzi scheme.
  • …Richard Nixon, undoubtedly a member of the GDE, is caught on tape, in his own words, committing a crime that leads to him resigning his office.
  • …Nobody helps George W. Bush, undoubtedly a member of the GDE, make a slam-dunk case for his war in Iraq by planting WMD’s on Iraqi soil, instead letting the world see that there were no WMDs in the first place.
  • …Minutes of the Bilderberg Group meetings have been posted on WikiLeaks.
  • …Tens of thousands of conspiracy theorists are allowed to junk up YouTube with their videos claiming that the “Global Domination Agenda” is real.

Believers in the “Global Domination Agenda” who try to tackle this question will invariably say something like, “This is how the GDE wants it,” or “They have to give you [debunkers] something to use to claim they aren’t real.” Anyone familiar with psychology would recognize these responses as self-reinforcing delusions.

4. Assuming the GDE want to take over the world, what do you think they’re going to do with it once they have it? 

Believers in the “Global Domination Agenda” usually breeze right by this type of question. What’s the ultimate point of the GDE trying to rule the world? Power, of course! Why, then, do they want to rule the world? For the sake of ruling the world. 

History teaches us, however, that people who desire a great deal of power seldom desire it for its own sake. That’s a common trope in fiction, but don’t even James Bond supervillains have a plan of some kind that they hope to implement? Don’t they usually have an ideology they want to advance, or a set of goals that they feel can best be vindicated by achieving a position of dominance?

Few people would dispute that Napoléon Bonaparte was a very ambitious man, even power-hungry. A man who crowned himself Emperor of France could not be anything other. However, even Napoléon wanted something. He believed in the ascendancy of the French state and thought its interests would best be served by being the most military and politically powerful state in Europe. Napoléon took power in France in part to achieve these goals. He didn’t just sit there wringing his hands and cackling, “Wheeee, I’m going to rule the lives of millions of Frenchmen and lay waste to the continent of Europe!”

What, then, do the GDE want? Believers in this theory don’t have much of an answer beyond, “they want to rule the world.” They seem to assume that power is its own reward. But that doesn’t make much sense, does it? Yet conspiracy theorists cannot point to any specific set of goals that the attainment of “total world domination” would help the GDE achieve. What are they going to do with the world once they have it? Build themselves big mansions? Waterski behind yachts? Erect statues to themselves? (Can’t many of the people suspected of being members of the GDE already do that?)

Some conspiracy theorists attempt to avoid this question by declaring that the GDE are “psychopaths” or otherwise insane. This makes no sense either. In fact it’s a convenient out, by saying, “well, we don’t have to explain what these people want, because they’re just nuts and want power for its own sake.” This argument is not convincing.

So if there’s no GDE and the “Global Domination Agenda” doesn’t exist, who does rule the world?

This question again proceeds from the same assumption as the “Global Domination Agenda” conspiracy theory does—the assumption that someone rules the world, and that those people have some type of unity. Asking the question is pointless because it presumes that all you have to do is point a finger at some group and say, “They run the world!”

A lot of people run the world—more accurately, a lot of people run little pieces of it, or, more accurately still, they run little pieces of the little pieces of the little pieces of the world. Those people do what they do out of an extremely broad array of motivations. Much of what they do conflicts with each other, because people, countries and industries have competing and contradictory goals. Barack Obama is undoubtedly one of the most powerful men in the world. However, there are things he can’t do. He can order a nuclear strike on China, but he can’t get his budgets passed. He can influence Bernake to adjust interest rates, but he can’t snap his fingers and create millions of jobs. He can order a SEAL team to assassinate Osama bin Laden, but he can’t stop Mitt Romney from talking trash about him on the campaign stump.

There certainly are a lot of things wrong with the world. Clearly, people are starving in developing countries. Man-made global warming is threatening our environment. Personally, I believe that our economic system is not functioning properly, and social inequality is a serious problem. But to assume that these things are all part of a conscious design by a single person or small group of people is to ignore everything we know about history and about human nature. Thrive seems to suggest that the world is somehow deliberately built to be cruel and unfair, and it is the fault of the GDE, those evil people, who made it so. That belief is absolutely asinine, and should offend anyone who believes in rational thinking.

You call this a “debunking”? You haven’t disproved the Global Domination Agenda at all!

It is true, I have not disproven the existence of the “Global Domination Agenda.” But I am not required to do that.

You are required, if you believe in the “Global Domination Agenda,” to prove that it existsnot the other way around. Until you can prove that it does exist, it is not rational to believe in it. That is why this article is an effective debunking, because in it I’ve stated why the “Global Domination Agenda” is not worthy of belief.

The facts as we know them indicate that Grant is buried in Grant’s Tomb. The conclusion that Grant is buried in Grant’s Tomb is entirely consistent with what we know about the world around us. If we come upon a monument in New York City with an inscription reading “Here Lies Ulysses Grant,” it would be entirely rational to conclude, just by what we know about how funerals, cemeteries and graveyards work in the real world, that most likely Ulysses Grant is buried beneath that stone.

If you claim that Lincoln is buried in Grant’s Tomb, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that this is true. You don’t get to believe that Lincoln is buried in Grant’s Tomb simply because you want to, and because, short of getting a bulldozer and a crowbar and cracking open the tomb and the coffin of the person buried inside, I can’t disprove that Lincoln is buried there. I can show you evidence, eyewitness accounts of Grant’s funeral, perhaps a document from his undertaker and the man who built the tomb stating that, yes, in fact Ulysses Grant is buried there. If you continue to insist that Lincoln is buried there, don’t be surprised, if you produce no further proof, that everyone else continues to accept what has been indicated as true—that Grant is buried in Grant’s Tomb.

I do not expect conspiracy theorists to be persuaded by this logic. I do, however, expect that maybe one or two rational people out there will begin to ask questions about whether the existence of the “Global Domination Agenda” is really as self-evident as it seems.

Conclusion

The Thrive movie’s claims of a “Global Domination Agenda” are based solely on an assumption that is self-reinforcing. Believers in this conspiracy theory will typically never, under any circumstances, even question the validity of the assumption. Once convinced of its veracity, strangely nearly everything they see in the world seems to look like “evidence” supporting the assumption, when in fact it is not.

I am not required to disprove the existence of the “Global Domination Agenda.” It is up to the believers to prove it exists.

There is no evidence that the “Global Domination Agenda” exists. Therefore, the “Global Domination Agenda” does not exist.

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407 responses to “Global Domination Agenda–Debunked!”

  1. ImprobableExplantions says :

    Thank you. I’ve struggled trying to discus this before, but I’ve had trouble expressing it. This is incredibly indepth.

  2. The Locke says :

    Simple logic. Most conspiracy theories can be either disproved, or shown not reasonable to believe in using simple logic. When I first heard about this NWO stuff, I thought to myself, “what the heck are you talking about”? After actually reading about it all these NWO conspiracy theories, I still thought, “what the heck are you talking about”?

    I’ve actually had people over the internet (glad it was the internet, because you never know what a hardcore conspiracy theorist, who might be and probably is mentally ill, might do in real life if you piss them off) whom have called me horrible and disgusting things and made me feel threatened because I didn’t believe in their conspiracy theories. Even on this blog site I’ve already had people try to use shame as a form of intimidation tactics to try to convince me of certain conspiracy theories (and a reminder to all of those who do believe in this stuff and will post a long and rambling comment trying to convince me that the NWO is real, I probably won’t read it and most likely wouldn’t believe it anyways).

    Good article. I hope some who believes in this stuff reads this and at the very least re-evaluates their belief in the NWO or whatever they refer to it as.

    P.S. the reason I use the term NWO is because it’s just the most common term term used in this type of conspiracy theory.

    • Clayton Murray says :

      If you have evidence, a book or some thesis showing that most conspiracies have fallen victim and been “disproved,” I would very much like to see it. Besides the mongers who don’t take no for an answer, there are legitimate reasons why 9/11, JFK, Apollo missions and others are still discussed if FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN their incompetent documentation.

      • Gurk says :

        Yes, why not start yelling. That surely proves that you know what you are talking about.

        Besides, you are now again turning things around.
        Believers need evidence that those theories exist. Non-believers have nothing to prove, so we just state the facts.

        Maybe if I would’ve lived in the time in wich JFK lived and I didn’t agree with his plans, I would have been the one that put him down. Anyone could’ve.

        All it takes are a bunch of people who come with their “theories” that provide answers. People want answers and theories are simple. All you have to do is watch a video and ta-daa: you are now a better person because you feel “enlightened and feel like your eyes have been opened”

        It’s a lazy mans way to believe something, it’s a couragefull and hounest mans way to prove something.

  3. kindofAnonymous says :

    I just want to say “thank you” to this project as a whole.

    A few years ago I believed in this stuff myself. It is exciting. It feels as if a good friend of you is telling you a great secret that nobody else knows. You think you are someone who looks behind the veil. One that knows the truth.

    But through articles like these and reading about skeptical thinking I began to doubt this stuff. I became aware that “critical thinking” is something very different than denying the “official version” and just accept the claims of nonsens spread by “investigative so called journalists”.

  4. kenghenryVi says :

    unfortunately poor uneducated people believe these fairy tales because, well…they are poor, uneducated and therefore unhappy.

    watching youtube does not replace 16 years of british education. people are poor because they choose not to work. people are rich and influencial because they choose TO work.

    unfortunately that cycle continues and is hard to break, so don’t blame the government blame ur parents!

    i like the idea of a world with NO money and a world which people trade goods of value and own small self-sufficent properties…but unfortunately there are many reasons it wouldn’t work.

    without order, without law, without large standing police forces the world would descend into chaos, much like the colonies in africa.

    • Soulboy says :

      I havent been out of work since I left school, thats about 35 years of constant employment, I’m certainly not rich, I would class myself as poor actually. The suggestion that people are poor because they CHOOSE not to work simply highlights that your 16 years of British Education has taught you nothing at all other than how to highlight how remarkably shallow and dim you are.

    • Canadianbud says :

      kenghenryVi says : December 26, 2011 at 6:55 am

      “people are poor because they choose not to work. people are rich and influencial because they choose TO work.”
      —-

      Now there’s a misguided statement if I’ve ever seen one.
      So basically, what that statement purports is that if you have money, you’ve “earned it”.
      If you don’t have money, you’re lazy, unproductive and “choose not to work”.

      I guess kengheryVi never heard of INHERITANCE and “dot com millionaires”. In fact, it CAN be proven that most “wealth” today is considered “old money” meaning it was made hundreds of years ago and passed down in generation. How does that mean rich people “choose” to work?

      The very assumptions this “debunking” makes about the Thrive movement, I can make about the statements here in this article.
      It’s all relevant to the person who’s doing the viewing/reading.

      • Nice Guy says :

        Exactly. For this people – If I can’t prove something – it’s not real.
        I’m just saying it is possible – so we should think about it.
        It’s still posiible – even if I can’t prove it.

  5. Maurice Paul says :

    Hi There Muertos,
    Thanks for that, Would U be willing in believe that the this was the excuse for the neo-cons to press their agenda of Global Domination and now they’re trying to get the NAU up and going as well.The Neo-cons being picked by George Bush for his administartion doesn’t seem to be just condincidense,doesn’t it?
    Thx.

    • muertos says :

      No, because the “North American Union” (NAU) does not exist, and neocons in Bush’s administration are somewhat irrelevant now that he has been out of office for three years.

      • Clayton Murray says :

        I would have to say that it is misleading to deny the existence of the “NAU,” when in fact you and I both know that the blossoming NAFTA is well-known and widely recognized. You declined to spend three seconds mentioning this agreement to help another understand the larger scope. Secondly, the figures of the Bush administration are NOT irrelevant IF they can be found guilty of treacherous crime, malicious action, etc. It is odd to claim otherwise, in my opinion.

      • muertos says :

        “The blossoming NAFTA”? What is this, 1993? The North American Union is a ridiculous idea that has been around since about that time, and there was no greater evidence for its existence 19 years ago than there is today. If NAFTA is a step toward “world domination,” why is it taking so long? You’d think after 19 years they would at least have gotten to the next step. As I point out in the article, one of the telltale signs that this “Global Domination Agenda” does not exist is that none of the horrible things conspiracy theorists say are right around the corner ever seem to come to pass. Isn’t that strange, hm? If I were a member of the “Global Domination Agenda” I’d be asking, what the hell are we waiting for? Why is this taking so long? Shouldn’t we at least have opened the FEMA camps by now, after spending 20 years building them?

      • Clayton Murray says :

        I don’t know what the said organization members are waiting for, nor do I claim that I will soon have the answers. But, one could argue that they are hesitant about major steps for fear that the public is more enlightened than ever – we both know that that is a good thing. You may have heard of this referred to as the boiling frog pot idea.

        While it is true that the development of NAFTA and its alleged evolution into the NAU is relatively slow in comparison to the EU, I would only like to point out that one major change, the elimination of simple conversion between the dollar and gold, took place in 1971 – 25 years after the seeds were planted – and this directly impacted the foundation of the EU, the Bretton Woods system. This point only serves to show that major changes or overhauls can still take place after several decades. I do not wish to discuss the importance of this change unless you believe it is 100% irrelevant.

        Lastly, in stark contrast to my observation that you are a seasoned debater and should know etiquette in this type of forum, I would ask that you please don’t quote another during your reply without the small detail of proper attribution :] We don’t want people thinking I made such an overarching claim about a global domination scheme. Note: I do not intend to jest; I respectfully and wholeheartedly enjoy your very informed positions and believe you may just be searching for the unadulterated truth.

        - Cheers

      • Jim says :

        It seems weird that many former high ranking people have known about this “non-existent” evolving global agenda for over a century!

        “To depart from mere generalizations, let me say that at the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller-Standard Oil interest and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as the international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes.”

        “They practically control both parties, write political platforms, make catspaws of party leaders, use the leading men of private organizations, and resort to every device to place in nomination for high public office only such candidates as will be amenable to the dictates of corrupt big business…”

        “These international bankers and Rockefeller-Standard Oil interests control the majority of the newspapers and magazines in this country. They use the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of office public officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government….”

        All above quotes came from Mayor John F. Hyland of New York in 1922

        “The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.” –Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli of England, in 1844.

        “[The New World Order] cannot happen without U.S. participation, as we are the most
        significant single component. Yes, there will be a New World Order, and it will force the United States to change it’s perceptions.” — Henry Kissinger, World Affairs Council Press Conference, Regent Beverly Wilshire Hotel , April 19th 1994

        “The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson.”– U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt in a letter written Nov. 21, 1933 to Colonel E. Mandell House.

        “We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National auto determination practiced in past centuries”–David Rockefeller in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting
        in June of 1991

        Just a snippet to ponder

  6. Cat Feet says :

    Great post & blog. Yes, you have some wonderful points that will help me to debate next time out. It would seem that people who fall for this type of stuff are the type of people that cults prey upon. They don’t have “much going” in the areas of logic and reasoning abilities. These people seem to be more than happy to give their rights away (and money) to others who claim people are taking their rights (and money) away!

    I have wondered if the internet would help or hurt people promoting this type of stuff and that answer seems to be “both”. Now that a certain politician has been linked with this movie I predict that it will fail even more in it’s popularity. It has in our community. The Liberals have been turned off by the Libertarian agenda (listed on the Thrive site) and the Libertarians won’t buy into the metaphysical theories and Humanistic views of some of the interviewees (Paul Hawken, Amy Goodman, etc.). Rather than “bridge the divide” I think the gap has grown wider.

  7. White Rabbit says :

    With the greatest of respect, I believe this section of your ‘debunk’ is weak. You haven’t disproven any claim made by the advocates of the New World Order (NWO).

    I became interested in the NWO question several years ago and researched the various theories. While it is impossible to conclusively prove that there is no NIWO conspiracy some of the central pillars of the ideology can be disproven conclusively and I’m surprised you ignored them. The claim that certain banking families control various corporations is nonsense, the majority of the corporations stated are publicly traded companies that are independently audited. There is no ‘bank owner’ at the top of the bank pyramid. There is only shareholders of which the majority comprise our pension funds. This is factual evidence that the central claim is false.

    This is not to say there are no worrying trends emerging throughout the world both social and political. The does appear to be a centralisation of power both in Europe with the formation of a super state and in the US with various legislation. While I doubt there is an organised conspiracy, do not doubt there exists a political and intellectual elite that has nothing but contempt for the average man. To be honest, I share their contempt in some ways. The average ‘man on the street’ has little or no critical thinking ability and no concept of history or global awareness. Instead they are too busy concentrating on what goes on in the celebrity big brother house or how their football teams fared at the weekend. The idea that the masses need to be ruled has always been engrained in the elite psyche and has strong intellectual banking from the likes of Nietzsche and Plato. As Plato said, Democracy is the ‘tyranny of the masses’. Irrespective of whether there is a conspiracy or not, as custodians of freedom we should never allow the over centralisation of power and control because even if the power is not exercised, the potential for it to be abused to too great a danger to risk.

    • muertos says :

      Thanks for your comment. As I point out in the article, it’s not my responsibility to disprove the existence of the New World Order. It is the responsibility of those who claim it exists to prove it. They have not done so, and cannot do so. Proceeding from the assumption that there is something there that must be disproven, and that existence of the GDA is the “default position” that must remain unaltered unless it’s disproven, is exactly the fallacy that gives rise to this bizarre and persistent conspiracy theory.

      The “worrying trends” you identify certainly don’t point to the existence of a GDA or the pillars that supposedly support this conspiracy theory. The position that “worrying trends” are happening in consolidation of political or economic power is a reasonable argument, but it has nothing to do with the existence of an imaginary group with some centralized unity that secretly controls the world. That’s the point I’m making here. You can be against consolidation of political and economic power and still denounce the GDA as a conspiracy theory. Proponents of the theory often conflate the two.

      • Miss_Misery says :

        Ah, I’m glad I read this last comment. This issue is very difficult, because there are conflations between theories about consolidation of power and some kind of “Illuminati” that rules the world. These sorts of folks are what Bertram Gross calls “The Mysterious Establishment” in his book “Friendly Fascism.” His book claims that America is on a slow and smooth path to fascism. On the face of it, his book sounds like a big conspiracy theory too. His style of argumentation would suggest that there is no way you can prove him wrong.

        Muertos, I would really like you to review “Friendly Fascism” if you have the chance. As a student of philosophy, I am well versed in logic and testing arguments for validity/cogency, but far from an expert (not implying that you ARE one, just that you would give a fresh perspective). The book on a whole seems to make many strong inferences, however, because of my lack of historical knowledge and the lack of footnotes in the book (or, for that matter, any way for him to prove half of what he claims) I cannot decide whether or not it is cogent (that is, whether or not the claims supporting his strong inferences are true).

        The film Thrive seemed to take Gross’s well thought out causal diagram of “the powers that be” and make a childish imitation of it, as it were, using crayon. This pyramid looks much more akin to the illuminati diagrams than Gross’s. Unfortunately, when I read “Friendly Fascism”, I didn’t know such conspiracy theories as the Illuminati and GDA existed. They have a lot in common with Gross’s theory, however Gross does not think the powers are centralized, and he lays out what he believes to be the causal chain quite explicitly and impressively. He was a professor at CUNY when he wrote the book and served as a federal bureaucrat as well as an executive secretary.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertram_Myron_Gross

        So I am making an appeal to what I believe to be a qualified authority. If he is right in his book, however, these conspiracy theorists might not be too off the mark in their claims, even if THEIR claims are completely baseless and their reasoning circular and/or influenced by delusion.

        Even if, however, we were to grant THRIVE even on this point, the rest of the movie is absolute garbage– and they abuse what might be a legitimate concern of many people (including most of my professors) about “worrying trends” and using it to appeal to their fear and their pity. Once they have the audience this far, the audience is much more vulnerable to accept their other claims. The maker of this film is an obvious charlatan and he abuses the shit out of logic to persuade people. A rhetorician! *Shivers*

        I’m glad for your BLOG and your efforts to debunk this film! Keep going– and please debunk “Friendly Fascism”! I want to believe it’s not true!!!

      • muertos says :

        Thanks for your comment. I haven’t read Gross’s book, and I’ll take a look at it if I can find the time, but even without having read it, from your description of it I think you’ve highlighted one of the main points I wanted to make in this blog article–that it’s important, in my view, to make a strong distinction between legitimate criticism of the concentration and use of political and economic power on the one hand, and “global domination” conspiracy theories on the other.

        I’ve found that conspiracy theorists are often monochromatic in their thinking. To them it’s usually a zero sum game. Either you wholly support structures and institutions that they see as bad, or you wholly oppose them, and there’s nothing in between. Conspiracy theorists are often baffled when they ask me a question like, “But don’t you think there is corruption in government and the financial sector?” and I answer, “Yes, I do,” because to them, if you believe in corruption or malfeasance at any official level, you must therefore believe in conspiracy theories. This is one of the most distressing effects of conspiracy thinking, and an example I point to of why it’s so corrosive. It’s essentially reductive, compressing the vast complexity of the world into cartoonish “us versus them” tropes that bear little resemblance to objective reality.

        I’m perfectly fine with, and in fact agree with many, arguments that there is too much consolidation in corporate and government power, that wealth is distributed unequally, and that not enough is being done about wrongdoing in financial sectors. Not having read Gross’s book yet, what I hear you saying is that these are the sorts of arguments he’s making. This is a far cry, though–as you point out quite cogently–between believing these things and believing that there is some sort of conspiracy to control the world. The key is the point I make in this article about internal cohesion. GDA conspiracy theories assume that all consolidation of wealth or power proceeds from some sort of master plan developed by a group that has, by definition, some kind of internal cohesion. Because it’s an assumption, believers in GDA conspiracy theories never question it, and they don’t understand why others don’t believe in the conspiracy theories because they can’t conceive of that core assumption being questioned. This is the main point I wanted to make in this article.

    • Jim says :

      Your understanding of our banking system is flawed. Rather than write a mile long dissertation on the matter, watch the video Money Masters which chronicles the history of banking since its beginnings. The video is produced by a PhD in economics and as such carries the academic credibility that most require. Also read the book by professor Carroll Quigley who has remarkable credentials to write on such matters. That book is called Tragedy and Hope. If you still do not believe than let it be so.

      It is not circular logic to say that these people within the hidden agendas try not to leave verifiable evidence of their work. A person must use the available results of what politicians and industrialists do etc…and postulate the rest. Proof of every element isn’t always needed to know the truth, it is like solving an algebraic equation, you fill in what works. Maybe not as pristine as raw numbers, but in principle it is the same.

  8. Miss_Misery says :

    Muertos, thanks for the response. There is a viewing in my town for THRIVE coming up, and that’s how I heard about it. I think I will be reluctantly paying the $5 for the viewing just so I can speak out against the film (notice, I won’t use the word documentary). I think I will be using your point, because it is a very good one, that just because the “ideas” behind the movie are noble (the overt ones at least) doesn’t mean we should accept its claims or support the movement behind it (esp. not the ones profiting from it!!!). Wish me luck! I’ve bookmarked your page and will keep up with your efforts to debunk conspiracy theories. Thanks for your hard work!

    • muertos says :

      Thank you. Good luck to you, I don’t envy you going into that lion’s den. The moment you open your mouth to speak against the movie, the Thrive supporters will turn on you like vicious snakes. They’ll shout you down and accuse you of every manner of evil they can think of. One thing I’ve noted time and time again about conspiracy theorists is, not only are they absolutely incapable of accepting criticism, but they view any criticism of their viewpoint as pure treason. I wish you luck because it’s important that there’s at least one brave person there willing to speak the truth about this dreadful film and the dangerous falsehoods it proffers as fact.

  9. Man from Harlem says :

    Hey I’m new here, but I wanted to share some thoughts on your article. First let me say I love it. As a former PCT (Paranoid Conspiracy theorist) I think your piece hits the nail on the sharp tip, unfastening the entire structure of NWO conspiracy theories. However, I believe there are some aspects of PCT thinking that you may not be factoring into your analysis. You ask a couple of probing questions, why are the GDE’s so incompetent and how come the NWO is taking so long. While your correct that these questions reveal the fallacy in the whole super secret all powerful bankers from hell belief system, for PCT’S however these questions have ready answers.
    One of the things I believe you missed is that PCT’s are mostly Christian, or lean heavily on the Judeo-Christian worldview. Notice that almost all of the major players in the NWO allegedly are Satan worshippers and/or immersed in the occult. According to the Bible the occult is an abomination to God and associated with the devil. For PCT’s the GDE aren’t simply a group of evil men, but a group of men under the rule of evil incarnate himself, Satan. Many PCT’s believe they see evidence in the Bible of the struggle to establish a NWO going back thousands of years. So for them the reason why the NWO hasn’t been established yet, or why it fails at times, is because God Himself is thwarting it.
    As far as why would the GDE’s work feverishly for world dominance that they themselves wont see, that too has a ready answer from PCT’s. In fact the same question can be asked about why Christians continue to serve Jesus if they wont get to see Him in their lifetime. If one believes in resurrection of the dead then living to see the fruit of your work is not far fetched for the PCT.

  10. dano says :

    I don’t have much to say other than I loved this article, and thanks for writing it!

  11. Roman says :

    hm, k, what about this:

    1.
    Bilderberg Group consists of powerful and influential members. 2011′s members list here: http://endthelie.com/2011/06/09/bilderberg-group-2011-complete-coverage-analysis-photos-videos-and-more/

    2.
    The banking system is rigged. No need for an expert, it’s simply wrong. I assume, you agree with me (“Personally, I believe that our economic system is not functioning properly”). We know it’s..

    2.1 Delaying inflation since 1913 with reserve and interest.
    World’s depth (28.02.2012, it’s 11:27pm right now in Germany):
    38 977 236 345 342 $, wait,
    now it’s 1min later:
    38 977 249 820 000 $

    Have a look: http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

    Christianity, Islam and Judaism had a good reason to forbid interest. They failed, except the Islam. They don’t allow interest. Christianity folded in 1830. Judaism had to do / was doing the job. But who knows, why and what exactly for. This applies to Christianity, too. Oh, btw: screw racism. Screw all -isms :)

    2.2 Screwing up the relation of money and goods+services.
    90% money to 10% goods, also true:
    digital money > real money > goods+services

    2.3 Not to mention the intuitively experienced nuisances obviously connected to money. I asked some people a simple question: “Did you ever thought of the wrongness in the world?”, deliberately open for individual interpretation of “wrongness” and small talk ’bout it.. but, most of them got it straight and said: “Yes.” Maybe I asked only pessimistic folks, but I assume you agree with me (“There certainly are a lot of things wrong with the world.”).

    There is a wave of expertise on the net debunking it right now.

    3.
    Now we have annual meetings of the wealthiest, most powerful and influential men and women we know about. Sure, the members list changes due to world’s complexity and we lack of strong evidences of “their decisions effecting conceivable (bad) consequences”, I’m also no expert on history, politics or capitalistic market economy, but I’m sure guys like Kissinger and Rockefeller are and some of the others are into financial stuff, too.

    That’s their agenda:
    “I therefore approached H.R.H. Prince Bernhard, Dr Paul Rykens, and M. Paul van Zeeland with the suggestion that we should organize some unofficial and private meetings to discuss the difficulties and dangers which were causing us so much anxiety. To these meetings we would invite influential and reliable people who carried the respect of those working in the field of national and international affairs and whose personal contact with men at the summit of public activity could help to smooth over these difficulties.”

    Dr J. H. Retinger: The Bilderberg Group, August 1956
    From: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group_History,_1956

    You, muertos, said:
    “The Bilderberg Group is a rotating conference of politicians, business leaders and intellectuals who meet informally to discuss affairs of the world.” – True.

    “The membership changes frequently, but usually includes high-ranking government officials, CEOs, etc.” – True.

    “The Bilderberg Group has no official power.” – True

    “It controls no army,” – but politicians do

    “it can neither make nor enforce laws, ” – politians can, therefor business leaders, too. It’s called lobbying.

    “and has no formal status under any government in the world.” – True, it’s a private party, closed community, sharing and caring.

    4.
    A politician should care about his nation as much as a father cares about his son and the house they’re living in. That’s why we call our countries fatherland, motherland, homeland. Nowadays there’re wars for freedom and democracy and we surely agree on freedom and democracy as a crutial and neat model for society. I assume, Kissinger during his lifetime might have had a good view on our world’s politics and the challenges for cock comparisons..

    We have experts “and intellectuals”, high on analysing, calculating and understanding (and addictively consuming) our economy. Most of them are banking stars or some other kind of economy-related acteurs.

    And finally we have the industrialists, who should care about employment, potential of people and the environment. We got technology, biology, chemistry, food, futuristic stuff combining all of them, et cetera.

    5.
    This leads me to my final questions (and wildest speculations :)

    Maybe this experts just meet to play golf, maybe they talk about god and the world. But if they do:

    Why do the world’s politics, the world’s economy and the world’s standard of life still suck so much, if we have this ultra-skilled, highly informed and pretty confidential people talking about our world?

    Even small-talking about such stuff doesn’t release them to forget their accumulated power and influence. And yet, they lack of evidence for caring and solutions for “the difficulties and dangers which were causing us [who is this 'us'? Bilderberger? Human mankind?] so much anxiety”.

    So I simply ask: Why are they meeting at all and where are their solutions to “smooth over these difficulties”?

    ..or are they just folks hanging around? :)

    For me their meetings naively don’t make sense. And that was my starting point: thinking of a think tank and that “Its members talk about things they think their countries should be doing, but little else.” For me they seem to do it.. kinda wrong, don’t you think?

    Remember their quoted agenda from 1952? This is the paragraph before:

    “A few years ago a large number of people began to feel anxious about a growing distrust of America which was making itself manifest in Western Europe and which was paralleled by a similar distrust of Western Europe in America. This feeling caused considerable apprehension on both sides of the Atlantic and in 1952 I felt that it was of the first importance to try to remove this suspicion, distrust, and lack of confidence which threatened to jeopardize the post-war work of the Western Allies.”

    growing distrust of America.. manifest in Western Europe..
    paralleled by a similar distrust.. of Western Europe in America
    try to remove this suspicion, distrust, and lack of confidence..
    which threatened to jeopardize the post-war work of the Western Allies..

    ok, one last question: What kind of “work” did he really mean? Peace? Freedom? Democracy? Health? Wealth? ..Power?

    btw I really enjoy your blog and it’s comments. many kudos for that :)

    – sry for eventual bad english :)

  12. Roman says :

    hm, k, what about this:

    1.
    Bilderberg Group consists of powerful and influential members. 2011′s members list here: http://endthelie.com/2011/06/09/bilderberg-group-2011-complete-coverage-analysis-photos-videos-and-more/

    2.
    The banking system is rigged. No need for an expert, it’s simply wrong. I assume, you agree with me (“Personally, I believe that our economic system is not functioning properly”). We know it’s..

    2.1 Delaying inflation since 1913 with reserve and interest.
    World’s depth (28.02.2012, it’s 11:27pm right now in Germany):
    38 977 236 345 342 $, wait,
    now it’s 1min later:
    38 977 249 820 000 $

    Have a look: http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

    Christianity, Islam and Judaism had a good reason to forbid interest. They failed, except the Islam. They don’t allow interest. Christianity folded in 1830. Judaism had to do / was doing the job. But who knows, why and what exactly for. This applies to Christianity, too. Oh, btw: screw racism. Screw all -isms :)

    2.2 Screwing up the relation of money and goods+services.
    90% money to 10% goods, also true:
    digital money > real money > goods+services

    2.3 Not to mention the intuitively experienced nuisances obviously connected to money. I asked some people a simple question: “Did you ever thought of the wrongness in the world?”, deliberately open for individual interpretation of “wrongness” and small talk ’bout it.. but, most of them got it straight and said: “Yes.” Maybe I asked only pessimistic folks, but I assume you agree with me (“There certainly are a lot of things wrong with the world.”).

    There is a wave of expertise on the net debunking it right now.

    3.
    Now we have annual meetings of the wealthiest, most powerful and influential men and women we know about. Sure, the members list changes due to world’s complexity and we lack of strong evidences of “their decisions effecting conceivable (bad) consequences”, I’m also no expert on history, politics or capitalistic market economy, but I’m sure guys like Kissinger and Rockefeller are and some of the others are into financial stuff, too.

    That’s their agenda:
    “I therefore approached H.R.H. Prince Bernhard, Dr Paul Rykens, and M. Paul van Zeeland with the suggestion that we should organize some unofficial and private meetings to discuss the difficulties and dangers which were causing us so much anxiety. To these meetings we would invite influential and reliable people who carried the respect of those working in the field of national and international affairs and whose personal contact with men at the summit of public activity could help to smooth over these difficulties.”

    Dr J. H. Retinger: The Bilderberg Group, August 1956
    From: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group_History,_1956

    You, muertos, said:
    “The Bilderberg Group is a rotating conference of politicians, business leaders and intellectuals who meet informally to discuss affairs of the world.” – True.

    “The membership changes frequently, but usually includes high-ranking government officials, CEOs, etc.” – True.

    “The Bilderberg Group has no official power.” – True

    “It controls no army,” – but politicians do

    “it can neither make nor enforce laws, ” – politians can, therefor business leaders, too. It’s called lobbying.

    “and has no formal status under any government in the world.” – True, it’s a private party, closed community, sharing and caring.

    4.
    A politician should care about his nation as much as a father cares about his son and the house they’re living in. That’s why we call our countries fatherland, motherland, homeland. Nowadays there’re wars for freedom and democracy and we surely agree on freedom and democracy as a crutial and neat model for society. I assume, Kissinger during his lifetime might have had a good view on our world’s politics and the challenges for cock comparisons..

    We have experts “and intellectuals”, high on analysing, calculating and understanding (and addictively consuming) our economy. Most of them are banking stars or some other kind of economy-related acteurs.

    And finally we have the industrialists, who should care about employment, potential of people and the environment. We got technology, biology, chemistry, food, futuristic stuff combining all of them, et cetera.

    5.
    This leads me to my final questions (and wildest speculations :)

    Maybe this experts just meet to play golf, maybe they talk about god and the world and having some presentations. But if they do:

    Why do the world’s politics, the world’s economy and the world’s standard of life still suck so much, if we have this ultra-skilled, highly informed and pretty confidential people talking about our world?

    Even small-talking about such stuff doesn’t release them to forget their accumulated power and influence. And yet, they lack of evidence for caring and solutions for “the difficulties and dangers which were causing us [who is this 'us'? Bilderberger? Human mankind?] so much anxiety”.

    So I simply ask: Why are they meeting at all and where are their solutions to “smooth over these difficulties”?

    ..or are they just folks hanging around? :)

    For me their meetings naively don’t make sense. And that was my starting point: thinking of a think tank and that “Its members talk about things they think their countries should be doing, but little else.” For me they seem to do it.. kinda wrong, don’t you think?

    Remember their quoted agenda from 1952? This is the paragraph before:

    “A few years ago a large number of people began to feel anxious about a growing distrust of America which was making itself manifest in Western Europe and which was paralleled by a similar distrust of Western Europe in America. This feeling caused considerable apprehension on both sides of the Atlantic and in 1952 I felt that it was of the first importance to try to remove this suspicion, distrust, and lack of confidence which threatened to jeopardize the post-war work of the Western Allies.”

    growing distrust of America.. manifest in Western Europe..
    paralleled by a similar distrust.. of Western Europe in America
    try to remove this suspicion, distrust, and lack of confidence..
    which threatened to jeopardize the post-war work of the Western Allies..

    ok, one last question: What kind of “work” did he really mean? Peace? Freedom? Democracy? Health? Wealth? ..Power?

    btw I really enjoy your blog and it’s comments. many kudos for that :)

    – sry for eventual bad english :)

  13. Nice Guy says :

    Assumption that:
    “things that cannot be proven today are 100% false because they will not be proven tommorow for sure” make this article a joke…

    • muertos says :

      Let me be sure I understand this. You want me and others to believe in the existence of a giant global conspiracy, which has absolutely no evidence to indicate its existence, on the naked hope that maybe someday some shred of evidence might surface to support it?

      If that sort of reasoning was the norm, people would be believing in Santa Claus well into their adulthood.

      How about this: assume that the Global Domination Agenda does not exist until and unless evidence is brought forth to validate it. That sounds a whole lot more rational, don’t you think?

      • bluecollarcritic says :

        @muertos

        How do you prove that the sun exists?

        Its not because you can see it because you can’t.
        If you could look directly at the sun (which I don’t recommend) and see it you would not be seeing the sun but instead an after image captured in light and delivered to your eyes several minutes later.

        Its not because you can feel its warmth because you can;t. You can feel warmth and assume its from the sun but there are many artificial man made sources of heat that can be made to feel not only as warm as the sun but even warmer.

        Its not because you’ve been told by reliable sources. More then one so called reliable source has in history been proven to be wrong at a later point in time. The church was certain the world was flat. When it wasn’t flat the church was still certain that the Earth was the center of our galaxy and that other heavenly bodies encircled the Earth.
        Even science has been proven to be wrong a few times as our technology advanced.

        The Point? The point is that inability to prove something does not by elimination disprove it any more then not being able to disprove something means its proved.

        When it comes to the global elite, a membership of powerful and intelligent individuals bent on global domination there is no such thing as standard thinking; these people do not act, think or even feel like you and I do. Trying to apply normal human logic to the actions these people take is at best a fruitless endeavor.

        Ask yourself this, does a psychologist study normal human beings in order to deduce the actions of a serial killer? Of course not.

        Sometimes the best or only way to prove something is through observation, something science does on a regular basis. From that perspective take a look at whats going on around you from economics to culture to education. Within the last 20 years we have gone from being a country that practices freedom of speech and the pursuit of liberty to being an nation of apathetic voyeurists who care more about whose winning on this weeks American idiot THEN the fact that the president has signed into law legislation that by-passes due proceess, its called the NDAA 2012 and no its not conspiracy theory.

      • Sig says :

        [quote]which has absolutely no evidence to indicate its existence, on the naked hope that maybe someday some shred of evidence might surface to support it?[/quote]

        This article was a nice read, had to laugh several times when reading it. But that’s more because of the total lack of understanding you have in the subject matter. Nice bla bla bla with some commonly used pseudoskeptical nonsense, and the one

        I haven’t seen the film Trive I must say. And when looking at some reviews I will never see it. Another typical ‘new age’ disinfo project like Zeitgeist and so on. Standard counterintelligence, of taking parts of the truth and mixing it will bullshit.

        It seems to me that your own research into the NWO subject only was a few minutes? I might presume that when you came up with the idea of writing this piece have at least have tried to delve into the subject matter? (besides watching Thrive then, I presume) Because YOU say that there is no proof, but have you looked for it? I agree with you that the one who makes the claim has to provide proof, but you started this thread of course. You are the one who started with the ‘hostile’ claims and placing yourself above those fruitloops. So now you don’t get so easy off the hook by letting the others do the work.

        And its quite painfully to see that you don’t even understand de most basic principles. I’m willing to lift up that veil a little bit for you, but then I must know that you are willing to make an effort and devote some time into it. There is no such thing as a crash course into the NWO stuff, it encompasses almost every aspect of our lives and our societies.

        It’s also clearly to see that you only dealt with complete morons as ‘believers.’ If you speak to people who see that 1991 Bush speech as definitive ‘proof’ than its OK to mock them. But on the other hand, if you think that this whole ‘theory’ only has its base on Youtube and that you can ‘debunk’ everything by looking up some trivia on some Wikipedia pages, then it’s definetely not worth both our time.

        So, where’s your ‘cutoff point’ at this? Can you define where your grey area is, between ‘OK, this has some value in it’ and ‘I really don’t believe a word they’re saying’

        PS: to be shure: you know that the New World Order is a commonly used term in global politics, aight? Besides Bush several 100 of other high ranked politicians have used it and keep on using it. It’s just a term for ‘globalisation’ in its simplest form. The division line between the believers and the skeptics is whether its with benevolent or malevolent for the ’99%’

  14. greg says :

    You don’t believe in NWO agenda not because it’s illogical, but because you simply CHOSE not to believe. It’s a question of emotions and intentions rather than the “reason”. There are and have always been individuals and organized bodies trying to take control over groups, nations etc. with more or less direct, covert or sophisticated means. You don’t belive? Hey, THAT’S naive. Remember Adam Weishaupt or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Some people say the Protocols are fake? OK, let’s assume they are. But can you deny that this diabolic kind of thinking existed many years ago? No, you can’t because no matter who wrote them, he/she had a very clear idea of manipulating whole nations into a tyranny – and that’s a hard fact. As much of a fact that ever since amazingly many of those concepts have been introduced…

    So the question is not whether conspiracy as such exists or not, buy rather: how much it’s advanced and to what extent it affects vital interests of who it’s trying to control. These are the questions the movie you put so much effort into debunking (a little bit too much for a simple sceptic – don’t you have anything better to do with your time?) is trying to answer – that’s all!

    • muertos says :

      I don’t believe in the NWO because the NWO does not exist. Unless you’re talking about the pro wrestling thing.

      • greg says :

        Then, Muertos (btw. one muerto wouldn’t be enough?), let me ask you again: why do you put so much effort into denying the existance of something that doesn’t exist anyway? Something seems to be wrong here…

        Let me answer this: you put so much effort because it does exist and you just don’t want to face it, but your subtle immaterial nature senses it and doesn’t leave you in peace.

        Why do I say it does exist? Because it’s our human, intelligent nature to manipulate each other in order to get from somebody something he/she otherwise wouldn’t be willing to give us if they were presented with a straight demand. That’s the definition of manipulation. Have you ever been manipulated? What about the your parents, your school mates, your girlfiend, TV commercials – to name but a few examples most obvious to each of us… Have you always felt comfortable and completely safe relating to people in your environment? Or maybe sometimes you felt like they have some kind of agenda and they are not open to you? And what about you in the relation to other people – haven’t you ever wondered on how to get something you need but you know the other person wouldn’t agree to? What about that girl you liked?

        What I’m saying is that we are all in a game – trying to oversmart each other – this is the kind of life literary everybody on this planet is living. And then, once you accept this basic truth, you notice there are levels, or depths to this game. Well, you can manipulate one person on your own, but on the next level, you get together with someone else to manipulate that person – in that case, you’re in what is referred to as conspiration. Once you are successful in conspiration and learn the first skills, you might want to manipulate more people – why not, if it gets you what you want, plus this great feeling of power as a special bonus? On the next level, now that you can get whatever you want – you become more driven by the game itself than by what immediate effect it may bring about. So, at this stage your partner becomes a target. You can’t feel so powerful if there is another person who shares the victories with you. You want to have it all for yourself and enjoy full glory. Now you understand that there can be only winners or losers. So, when you betray your so-far closest partner and see that strange look in his eyes, you don’t feel guilty – this is simply what life is all about, isn’t it? He just wasn’t smart enough. If he had been, he would have oversmarted you, but you were the first.

        Hey, this is just a pattern, a matrix if you wish, of how this is functioning. The manipulation, or conspiracy is omnipresent, and there ARE different depths to it. So please stop denying its existance and take the time to explore how deep the rabbit hole is.

      • muertos says :

        Let me get this straight. Because people manipulate each other some of the time, you infer from this that a vast global conspiracy exists to enslave the world–despite the lack of even a single shred of evidence to indicate this is true?

        Really? This is really what you think?

        “So please stop denying its existance…”

        I will not stop denying its existence, because it does not exist. Why do I spend time and effort pushing back against something that doesn’t exist? Because belief in this nonexistent conspiracy theory is harmful, damaging, and dangerous, that’s why. It clouds people’s judgment, it teaches them hatred, it engenders feelings of helplessness that lead to extremism and violence, and it diverts attention away from legitimate problems in the world that need solving and which will not be solved as long as people go running around looking for imaginary “New World Order” agents that do not, in fact, exist.

      • greg says :

        Thanks Muertos, for explaining your intentions, but it only exposes, how weak your logical foundations are.

        You want a proof. So, what kind of proof are you looking for? We’re talking here about conspiracy, which by definition is a covert kind of activity – not supposed to be unvailed to someone outside a closed circle of insiders – otherwise, it would be a deficient conspiracy, wouldn’t it? So, what exactly would satisfy your sceptic mind? Would you be convinced if G. Bush invited you to a private dinner and transmutated in a reptile in front of your eyes? Well… let me guess… mmmm… not. You’d rather doubt your senses than started to believe in something you simply don’t WANT to admit. Do you know why? Because, as I put it in my first post, it’s all a matter of personal preference and intention. You are likely to believe an interpretation that suits something you had assumed beforehand. So, what did you assume?

        Well, you are clear about it. You have made an assumption that a belief in certain contents is damaging for people, so you choose to protect people from believing in them, and the way you do it is by denying the truth of these contents. Do you see? Whether the contents are true or not, is secondary, what is primary is to – as you declare – protect people from feeling uncomfortable. This explains why you are so likely to discard or deny any fact that doesn’t fit your assumption.

        What do I think about this attitude? Well, it seems to be an ostrich’s kind of policy – head in the sand…

        You want a proof? Browse the Internet, view YouTube videos, there’s indeed too much proof now, and yes – I agree – it might be overwhelming. I remember, e.g. seeing on YouTube a recording of a life TV footage of the events of 9/11. I remember the speaker saying that some (I don’t remember which now) building collapsed after the towers had collapsed, while it was visible from the window behind the speaker’s back (life recording). Eventually the buildung did collapse – only, a couple of minutes later. It might look like the TV speaker was some kind of a prophet. How would you call it – a coincidence? To me, it’s a proof that something is wrong here.

        So, some people notice things like that, but unlike you, they choose not to ignore or deny them, instead they get deeper trying to connect the dots. Sometimes these are genuine professional researchers or journalists who eventually come up with their version of what really happened. Now, if their version turns out to be disturbing or challenging the world view you get from the official sources, people like you call them crazy and deny any credibility. See?

        But what if these people are right, man? What if… What if these people – with a huge personal sacrifice – discover that something is going wrong and are trying to alarm the public because they see a comming catastrophy? Now do you understand, how much demage people like you bring to the society, if they try to suppress or ridicule such solitary voices?

        This is why, my friend, I do NOT believe in your good intentions. To me, you lack courage, your logic lacks consistency and your ethics are ambiguous. You are Muerto, indeed – nomen omen.

      • muertos says :

        So, you rationalize the total lack of evidence for the existence of this “New World Order” by saying that “they” don’t want us to have any evidence. This is known, in psychology, as a self-reinforcing delusion.

        You claim I’m adopting a “head in the sand” policy and refusing to accept things I don’t want to believe. Actually you’re doing something remarkably similar–you desperately want to believe in the existence of this imaginary conspiracy, and not even the total lack of evidence for it will dissuade you from that belief.

        Am I to understand from your comment that you do believe George Bush is a shape-shifting reptilian? Wow. You’re even more far gone than I thought.

        My purpose is not to “protect people from feeling uncomfortable.” My purpose is to dissuade belief in ridiculous conspiracy theories because that belief hurts people and hurts society. Jared Lee Loughner, who blew away 9 people in Tucson in January 2011, was motivated primarily by his belief in conspiracy theories. James Von Brunn, who killed 2 people at the Holocaust Museum in 2009, was also motivated by conspiracy beliefs. These are dangerous beliefs that kill people and destroy lives. Even aside from high-profile violent incidents, I’m quite familiar with how conspiracy beliefs destroy lives at a less dramatic level. Take, for instance, the fervent InfoWars/Alex Jones listener who took his kids out of school because he thinks they’re being indoctrinated by “Illuminati propaganda.” He now home-schools them–and this “schooling” consists entirely of having the kids watch YouTube videos about conspiracy theories, which is exactly the same activity you suggest I engage in toward the end of your comment.

        Think about what these kids are going to grow up to be like. That’s why I oppose conspiracy theories.

        “But what if these people are right?” They’re not right, they’re wrong. Pigs can’t fly. You ask me to consider, “What if pigs could fly?” Well, I guess we’d have flying pigs zooming around, but pigs can’t fly, so it’s not very productive to spend a lot of time thinking about what the world would be like if they could. Just as pigs can’t fly, there is no such thing as the “New World Order” or the “Global Domination Agenda.” They do not exist. This conspiracy that you’re so terrified of does not exist. Pure and simple–it does not exist.

      • greg says :

        Well, Muertos, I’m glad we reached the same conclusion: pigs can’t fly. Sadly, I agree with that.

      • Jeffrey says :

        Hey, I am currently debunking FEMA camps and martial law, I am stuck at the executive orders thing…. A little help here? Here are the orders:
        EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990

        allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995

        allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997

        allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998

        allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999

        allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000

        allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001

        allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002

        designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005

        allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051

        specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310

        grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049

        assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921

        allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA’s Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA’s role as a “new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis.” FEMA’s powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate the…

        National Security Act of 1947

        allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities.

        1950 Defense Production Act

        gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy.

        Act of August 29, 1916

        authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency.

        International Emergency Economic Powers Act

        enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national. These powers were transferred to FEMA in a sweeping consolidation in 1979.
        Muertos, Are you willing to help me?

      • muertos says :

        Sure.

        I would suggest for starters verifying what the text of the executive orders actually are, and that they are still in effect. In the summary you posted, in the space of 5 minutes I found two very significant inaccuracies.

        For example, whatever you’re quoting here claims, “EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.”

        Executive Order 11921 does no such thing. Here is a link to the real text of Executive Order 11921, and you’ll see it doesn’t say this at all:
        http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo/eo-11921.htm

        You also quote another claim, “EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.”

        Executive Order 10995 does not say that at all. Go to the text and you will see what it says:
        http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo/eo-10995.htm

        But what Executive Order 10995 says is not very relevant anyway, considering that it was revoked on February 16, 1962 and has not been in effect for over 50 years.

        There are many resources on the web where you can find texts of executive orders. Here is the one I used just now after about 5 minutes of searching:
        http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo/index.html

        These are selected orders and don’t have every one, but I can tell just from this random check of two of the ones that are on the list that neither of the characterizations that you quoted here are accurate–and in fact are so wildly inaccurate that the whole game changes once you look at the text of the orders themselves. So, definitely start by verifying what they actually say.

        You can find many other executive orders in a university library, or especially a law school library which will probably have the orders collected together in a book (with periodic supplements). So, I’d say start there.

        Therefore, my advice to you in investigating these orders are, don’t take anyone’s view on what they say at face value (including mine) until you have (A) actually read the order and see for yourself what it says, and (B) verified that it is still in effect and has not been superseded, revoked or amended.

        Good luck on your project.

      • Beenie says :

        The stories you are reeling off sound ridiculous, they make you seem like a ridiculous middle-aged man who’s read far too many newspapers.

        There are many murderers with many different motives, but I’m guessing that if someone got worked up enough from a conspiracy theory to actually murder someone, then they probably were pretty unstable to begin with.

        Most people I know who are open to conspiracy theory are usually quite open minded in general. I’d agree that we tend to be more ‘spiritual’, so to speak. You’d call this an example of ‘the god of the gaps’, where as I would ask you to disprove that people have souls, an astral body, daemon, whatever you want to call it.

        I am merely saying I am open to the fact that literally anything is possible and you always have to accept the fact that you could be wrong – the faculty of reason will only get you so far.

        If humanity knows so little, how can you be so sure that something doesn’t exist?

        From what I’ve seen (and thrive is irrelevant, because I haven’t watched it), you are right in saying that there is no concrete evidence that the NWO exists. But you can’t claim that it definitely isn’t real, just because YOU haven’t seen any evidence and then insult people for filling the gaps. You also assume that everybody must believe that the typical symbology, seem all over the place, is proof. I do not, but I do take notice of it.

        The illuminati exists because governments sit idly by as corporations poison us with plastics (oestrogen mimickers) and harmful chemicals in thousands of products.

        Banks and businesses make false claims of offering ‘power’ – Vodafone slogan, ‘freedom’ – Capital one ad, ‘youth’ -facecreams for women etc, in a system that is directly responsible for the lack of such virtues.

        Power is lost and people compromise under a system where they are supposedly ‘free’. Most people work jobs that have no value under anything other than this system. This leads to a lack of freedom, you have little choice in opting in to uphold the system, even if you disagree with it. Youthful vitality is lost through jobs that aren’t stressful on your body, but are stressful on your mind. At least people would be relatively fit if they worked their bodies more, exercise and a sense of accomplishment would add to the self esteem of a modern person. Instead, people are often too tired to keep fit when they get home, their minds are worn out and they’re unfulfilled from sitting in an office. They trade about 80% of their lives to work and get paid fuck all as standard. House prices have gone up buy around 2-3 times, but standard wages about 2-3% over the last 10-15 years, and the government allows these companies to take the piss.

        You may say that we have it good with healthcare, but I’d think again. Apart from emergency medicine and some aspects of midwifery being quite advanced and efficient, pharmaceuticals are actually disgusting.

        I cannot believe how people put their lives in the hands of companies who make money out of drugs. Not only this, but over half of the research into these drugs is done by the pharmaceutical companies. Independent scientific journals, such as the Cochrane Library often come to the conclusion that pharmaceutical companies exaggerate the benefits and underestimate the harm done by their drugs in their own reviews. They used a number of pharmaceutical and independent reviews of flu jabs and found that they were only effective about 1% of the time in ‘good’ circumstances, because they use last year’s flu strains. Nobody would realise that from the way the government pedal vaccines. There has never even been a double-blind placebo test on these vaccines, so they don’t actually even know if they work. In actual fact you would have to ‘immunise’ 100 people to get just one set of fly symptoms. Which means they usually immunise less than 1/100.

        One doctor told me that 30% of people are allergic to a cream that I had a reaction to. That means 30% of 7 billion people are intolerant to that pharmaceutical cream. In other words, they are marketing a poison, as a vast, vast number of humans are damaged by this ‘medicine’.

        And this is all over the board too, I know of few pharmaceuticals that don’t poison you and compromise your immune system. There is not a single drug without ‘side’ effects. How can you get better from an illness when your immune system is compromised?

        Then you find out that they’ve had evidence that marijuana can cure certain cancers because of the cannabinoid system causing cell death in mutants, and you just think, wow, why have they been letting us die?

        Then there’s documentaries (state sponsored, BBC, I’ll give it to them) how marijuana’s cannabinoids can treat parkinsons and other such conditions. How THC in bud also is neuroprotective and can help Alzheimer’s patients. And they still seem to have no intention of giving us this drug, because of propaganda and lies and the fact that they can’t patent it.

        We see the fact that the government puts waste flouride into the water, which is more toxic than lead and is linked with many diseases. They also allow companies to use ingredients that are also associated with many diseases, such as aspartame. Many do not know the health implications of these chemicals and assume we have clean water/ diet drinks are healthy even though they contain aspartame. Also the plastic that everything is stored it leaks into products and is linked with cancer in men and women.

        Male babies are being born with genital defects, more men are impotent and sterile and people are sufferring from oestrogen related cancers because of the oestrogen mimickers in plastics and our water.

        Trends tend to stay similar if there is no outside influence, but cancer is on the up as are many diseases which can all be linked back to these chemicals and the government just allows them to be in circulation.

        So the government don’t seem to be protecting us from businesses really, they seem to let many businesses make a profit at other people’s expense.

        Then there the legal system here in the UK! The amount of people who are ‘criminals’ is an absolute joke. My parents own a business and would have to pay £200 to be legally allowed to play the radio in their shop. A policeman made a woman turn the radio off in her cafe, threatened with a fine. There are so many fines now because the councils use people as revenue streams, because the government use statutes to allow it!

        So the ‘law’ isn’t really for the majority of the people really, when so many are criminalised.

        I won’t lie, I smoke weed everyday, I’m high right now – but I’m not insane. I feel pretty rational, I’ve just looked into a few things and come to logical conclusions.

        There is definitely an oppressive agenda against us, look at that evidence. At the very least it’s heavily in favour of the rich.

        So if the government and big business have no qualms with poisoning us daily and raping us oppressively for our money, why should we trust them? It’s all just ran so incompetently too, they’ll give that money away to ridiculous causes, such as benefits for many who don’t need them and then barely encourage them to work. They also spend a vast amount in bombing Arabs and it’s disgustingly evil and when our governments were first involved on aiding the forces we recently ended up fighting, you have to wonder what their game is, because it seems pretty fucking evil and shrewd from what I can see.

        I don’t care about pyramids, capstones, owls and cults, there is most certainly an agenda and it is money and power.

  15. bluecollarcritic says :

    Time to debunk the supposed debunk-er using their own comments.

    2. If the “Global Domination Agenda” exists, why is it taking so long for the GDE’s plans to be implemented?

    “Believers in the “Global Domination Agenda” have a hard time with this one.”

    This may be true for some, in fact I have no doubt it is but to simply throw everyone into the same mix, well that’s a logical fallacy.

    “They talk about the awful things the GDE has done in the past, but the stress is always on the much worse things that are going to happen in the future.”

    Yes and no. Years ago when less was known there was more emphasis on what was to come but that’s a logical progression. Today the more knowledgeable do speak about what is happening now as well as what has been done.

    “Various individual conspiracy theories that fit under the rubric of the “Global Domination Agenda” such as the North American Union, RFID microchipping, etc. all emphasize a future dimension. Yet the terrible future consequences never happen. They’re always going to happen, but they haven’t happened yet”

    Well this last coupe of lines is just outright lying, Many things have come to pass that were previously predicted by persons like Alex Jones. Here are just a few:

    TSA Searches – Violations of an Americans Right to be free from search and seizures. Please don;t use the excuse that because we are flying we somehow magically give up that right.

    TSA Checkpoints – As of the last year the TSA has moved outside the airport and is working with local law enforcement to perform road side check points. An organization that was supposedly necessary to prevent an airline highjacking is now being used to perform policing actions.

    Free Speech Zones – The 1st amendment, the right to free speech does not have a qualifier that said free speech has to be within government approved “zones” and yet that is exactly what has been going on for years. Now with a recent bill in congress a citizen can be imprisoned if they try to practice said free speech too closely to where a government official is engaged in business whether they know it or not.

    NDAA 2012 – Government passes legislation that includes a section that states that the government can by-pass due process( one of the rights outlined in the Bill of Rights) and indefinitely detain a legal US citizen without probable cause and without any representation. Now tell me how that differs from dictators who imprison those who practice political dissension via speech?

    Debunk that! You can’t and that’s because these are not merely proposed possible conspiracies but actual actions taken by government even if they are actions that popular so called debunkers like to pretend do not exist.

    Legitimate debunking of bunk like Chubicabras and similar fairy tales is one thing, out right denying that there is a move by government to squash our freedoms and liberties is another. If you want to do something useful for your fellow man then open your eyes and stop pretending that nothing is going on.

    • Rell says :

      “TSA Searches – Violations of an Americans Right to be free from search and seizures. Please don;t use the excuse that because we are flying we somehow magically give up that right.

      TSA Checkpoints – As of the last year the TSA has moved outside the airport and is working with local law enforcement to perform road side check points. An organization that was supposedly necessary to prevent an airline highjacking is now being used to perform policing actions.”

      This stuff has been happening to minorities for years. Fale imprisonment, being denied to eat a certain places, illegal traffic stops etc…but yet this is nothing new.

      It seems that you are making points but at the same time you are assuming that there is some conspiracy to take away your freedoms. If you study history it repeats itself…such af the result of human behavior. This is no conspiracy and this is nothing new.

      “If you want to do something useful for your fellow man then open your eyes and stop pretending that nothing is going on”

      If YOU want to do something useful for your fellow man then open YOUR eyes and stop assuming that the gov. is taking away your freedoms and liberties. This stuff is nothing new. Yet, you seem to make a conspiracy out of something that has just about happened in every society in one way or the other at one point in time

  16. bluecollarcritic says :

    Alright Mr Debunker let me ask you something.

    If you’re right and there is “Nothing to see here, now move along” about the Bilderbergers or their annual Bilderberg Meeting then why is it that up until 2 years ago every single form of media from newspaper to TV to radio all said the exact same thing and that is

    “There is no such thing as the Bilderbergers”

    and/or

    “There is no such Bilderberg meeting of the worlds rich and powerful”

    Huh? If it really is just a group of rich fat cats getting together to exchange stock tips and swap jokes then why is it held in secrecy and why did everyone in the main stream media always deny its existence?

    Does the inability to answer my question automatically mean that the there is a GDE? Of course not.

    It does however raise some serious questions and concerns about the media and a question of just how much of what the media has been saying up to this point was BS and how much was truth. If its possible to get every media outlet around the globe to all agree to deny the existence of this group for so many years then one needs to ask the question what else is a lie that has been sold as gospel by the media?

  17. bluecollarcritic says :

    Since you like to use the “whats more likely” approach let me put it to you this way and lets see if your as able to easily dismiss these as you’ve tried with other issues raised.

    Whats more likely?

    a) The Bilderberger meeting, an annual gathering of over 100 of the worlds most powerful leaders in industry, various royalty from countries around the globe and leaders of various 1st world countries, is really just an innocent get-together that someone has successfully managed to get all of the worlds media to deny the existence of for decades

    OR

    b) The annual Bilderberg meeting of the worlds rich and powerful that is held in secret and has been kept out of the publics eye until 2 years ago is a gathering of a global elite and their associates that decides on global policies and how to coordinate those policies to bring about whatever end game it is that they have planned?

    I agree that the ‘B’ option does sound like something out of a James Bond global dominance scheme but I also know the level of difficulty involved with putting together a meeting of just a handful of these people. The resources and planning necessary to get this many people together who are at that level and do it every single year and keep it out of the media is something bordering on miraculous. Anyone who can look at this and think that there’s nothing going on and that its just an innocent get together is blinded by their own desires.

    Just 5 years ago the idea of a Bilderberg Group/Meting was called a conspiracy theory and denied in every newspaper and on every radio talk show regardless of political affiliation and now its admitted and openly discussed. How can you not find that puzzling?

    • muertos says :

      Meh. Quite typical conspiracy theorist garbage, double-speak and innuendo. You have not presented a single shred of evidence that the “Global Domination Agenda” actually exists. I see no reason why I should give your argument any consideration. I’ve seen it for seven years and it’s no more persuasive now than it was then. You should try to come up with something original at least.

      • bluecollarcritic says :

        “Meh. Quite typical conspiracy theorist garbage, double-speak and innuendo. You have not presented a single shred of evidence that the “Global Domination Agenda” actually exists. I see no reason why I should give your argument any consideration. I’ve seen it for seven years and it’s no more persuasive now than it was then. You should try to come up with something original at least. ~Muertos”

        Exactly as I suspected, you can’t provide even a difficult to believe explanation for this. As far as double-speak goes I did not claim to have proof only questions that have no other logical explanation. You’re the one using double-speak to avoid actually answering the question.

        It’s OK though, I expected as much. I’m not saying you are some kind of cointelpro government hack so please don’t try to imply I did. You’re just part of the sheeple of the world who cling to disbelief because it’s human nature to deny the worst.

        It’s common for people to believe that the old days where better than current days. They forget the bad parts of the old days and over emphasize the better parts and from that derive that the old days were better. This same self-denial about ones existing conditions works the same. Do you think the Jews knew all along what was going on and simply decided to not resist or is it more likely they were in denial about what was going on right up until the end? Or is the Holocaust now an official Conspiracy Theory or is it still to recent an event in history, one with too many living witnesses to be able to deny it actually happened?

        BTW – The Gulf Of Tonkin Incident which lead us into the Vietnam war was labele a “Conspiracy Theory” for a very long time until it was finally proven to be factual via official government documents thanks to the FOI (Freedom Of Information) law. Let me ask you this, when events that have been supposedly debunked by people like yourself such as the Gulf Of Tonkin incident , what do you do when it is proven to be factual through quantifiable anbd or legitimate documentation? Do you

        A) Deny that you ever called it a Conspiracy Theory

        B) Deny that it has been proven and continue to refer to it as being a Conspiracy Theory

        C) Pretend like the event just never happened and has never been discussed like as if it just never existed

        D) Fess up that you were wrong about calling it a Conspiracy Theory

        Most people find it very hard to admit being wrong especially if it’s about something they’ve invested a lot of effort into defending. No one likes admitting being wrong especially self-proclaimed “debunkers”. There however are a few debunkers who are of such a character that when something like Tonkin is exposed they acknowledge it but that’s because they practice what they preach and set their stance based on facts and not set the facts based on their stance.

  18. tjmartin66x says :

    It would have been interesting to see what the late Professor Howard Zinn may have thought about the NWO or the established interests he refers to frequently. I think a lot of mischief exists within the nature of language and people tend to identify themselves, without understanding or realizing it, and act on autopilot because it assuages a fear or piques unconscious sentiments… and then again, if it’s all unconscious, then how can anyone know it… so what can be done? I think recognizing a person’s individual field of influence, field of concern and respect the differences is probably a good start. A lot of the NWO hype reminds me of the end of the world in 2000. ABC had a show about psychics and their predictions about California falling into the Mariana trench… however, during commercial break, you could have your fortune read and learn how wonderful life is…. I think the world falls into two camps: the dishonest few and the ignorant masses. History reveals a pattern that people resist change and the smart few manufacture consent for a quick buck. I think that’s where a large part of the US social conscious is today. I hope this post draws lots of informed fire, ffe barrages and all the other confessions I’m seeking to ferret out. Oh, by the way, muertos, I think you’re a NWO contractor. Good job :)…lol (I’m kidding, but I had to throw that in…)

  19. DiscoPro_Joe says :

    In the psychology of belief, I’ve noticed a big correlation between believing in creationism, and believing in a NWO. The former invokes the “god of the gaps” to explain every mystery and wonder of the universe, in order to (over-) simplify everything he doesn’t understand. The latter doggedly invokes the “Satan of the gaps” to explain every problem, hardship, and injustice he perceives in politics and global affairs — in order to oversimplify everything once again to suit his fancy.

    What’s your take on this?

    • muertos says :

      I think there’s a lot of common territory there. However, conspiracy theorists take it a step further. Instead of employing imaginary conspiracies as a “Satan of the gaps,” believers in this phenomena are quite willing and eager to ascribe to conspiracies things that are perfectly explainable by other, more conventional means. The nutters no longer use conspiracy as a means to explain mysterious or uncertain events. Conspiracy is their preferred explanation for anything and everything, whether it’s mysterious, unexplained or not.

      Example: I once dealt with a conspiracy theorist who was convinced that the space shuttle Columbia was shot down by the US military in 2003 in order to provide a pretext for building a new, specifically military space shuttle that dark forces planned to use to conquer outer space. This despite the fact that there’s absolutely no mystery about how or why the Columbia disaster occurred. There’s nothing to be explained, yet this guy was convinced of this alternative, conspiracy explanation without a single shred of evidence. He simply couldn’t conceive of it not being a conspiracy, so the only question in his mind was who had faked it and why.

      This is a totally religious belief system, as you can plainly see from the comments of the people on this topic who believe in the “Global Domination Agenda.”

      • DiscoPro_Joe says :

        Agreed!

      • Beenie says :

        So you are basing your criticism on a theory of human rational that hasn’t been proven ? Kind of ironic.

        No one person can argue this is rational and this isn’t. It is rational to assume that those in power take advantage of it, but it perhaps strays into irrationality at times with some of the lesser NWO stuff.

        I also haven’t read a good factual response to the reasonable worries about globalisation and corrupt politics that could lead to a NWO order. You are a victim of double speak yourself, because you pose a self-fulfilling prophecy that means that many who have concerns are dismissed, almost disgustingly by you.

  20. DiscoPro_Joe says :

    One of my friends (who is a hardcore conspiracy theorist) e-mailed me links to the Thrive film a couple of times in the last few months. But, it came across to me as another conspiracy piece on par with Alex Jones and his ilk. So I never raised an eyebrow of interest in Thrive, until this same friend sent me a link to Georgia Kelly’s mean-spirited anti-libertarian hit piece, and Foster Gamble’s rebuttal.

    Boy…did that fire me up to check out Thrive, and boy, was I disappointed in its plethora of insane conspiracy-theory nonsense!

    Personally, as a longtime libertarian and goldbug, and as a huge fan of holistic health practices (for non-emergencies, of course), I naturally loathe the Huffington Post and the majority of its op-eds. So after reading its political thrashing of Thrive, I assumed, “Hey…if these pundits are spitefully railing against it, and if there’s no mention of conspiracy theories, then it must really be worth checking out, right?”

    Wrong!

    The film’s rendition of aliens visiting Earth, free-energy machines, and especially, its Alex Jones-style focus on NWO conspiracies just made my eyes roll. The movie is basically another Zeitgeist film, except that it’s been packaged to appeal to libertarians instead of political modern liberals.

    But in my own experience, the majority of libertarians (and Ron Paul supporters) I’ve encountered are *not* hardcore conspiracy theorists. Some of them certainly are, but luckily, those types do *not* compose a majority among libertarians.

    For example, virtually all libertarians are opposed to central banking and fiat currency (and thus, the Federal Reserve System) on principle, and libertarians also champion Austrian Economics. However, this stance, per se, is a far cry from believing that the Federal Reserve is a sinister pawn of the Rockefellers and Rothschilds in their secret plot to rule the planet.

    In another example, the majority of libertarians distrust most politicians, and see them as inconsistent and two-faced. Libertarians also generally believe the notion, “Politics & war: when in doubt, follow the money.” Libertarians often suspect that big lobbyists and powerful special interests play a *huge* role in government policies, and usually refer to these players as “the power elites.”

    But again, most libertarians reasonably draw the line somewhere in their thinking, before allowing their minds to give way to wild speculation and tabloid fantasies. Most do *not* ascribe current events or global affairs to be the supposed inner workings of the Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Group, or CFR. And as for the power elites, most libertarians perceive them to be arrogant, but *not* sinister.

    Personally, as with most libertarians, I predict that the U.S. (and to a lesser extent, parts of western Europe) are headed for a major economic meltdown and currency collapse within the next 5 to 10 years or so. But I *don’t* think it’s being secretly “engineered” and “orchestrated.” Rather, it just seems to be an inevitable result of arrogant leaders pursuing disastrous policies for far too long, and of the masses failing to notice the problems until it’s too late.

    Anyway, that’s my take on this “Global Domination Agenda” stuff. My personal recommendation to Mr. Gamble is that he should use Ms. Kelly’s op-ed as a marketing tool for Thrive! He and his staff could post her article and his rebuttal on numerous libertarian and goldbug sites, and probably would spark a huge firestorm of interest in viewing the film! But don’t tell Mr. Gamble I said that. (ha)

    And don’t tell him that the majority of his new audience will be turned off, as well.

  21. DiscoPro_Joe says :

    Here’s a good libertarian critique of “Global Domination Agenda” and “New World Order” conspiracy theories, written by David MacGregor. It’s entitled, “The Conspiracy/Paranoia Trap.”

    (Google the words, “David MacGregor Trap” without the quotes, and it’s one of the first few links to appear.)

    Although he mentions a few conspiracies I don’t believe in, he still hits the nail on the head spectacularly!

    If you have any libertarian friends or colleagues, you should send them this article link. Enjoy…

  22. Ja says :

    Nothing can ever be 100% proven and your wall of text chooses to ignore this.
    People have been controlled for as long as our history books go and beyond. Citizen of the nations have been deliberately dumbed down, this too has been going on throughout the recorded history. Nowadays people are illiterate, lack the capability for logic and understanding. Billions of people just eat, shit, go to work and get entertained. Humanity’s evolution has stopped. You have to be among the ignorant in order to not notice this. Constant wars are ravaging the planet while all the pollution is making life extremely hard. More food is exported than Imported to countries such as Africa. There’s capability to provide clean water and food to all of mankind, yet this is not done. Already we have too much population growth. in less than 40 years at a steady 1.8% (current) growth our planet’s population will double. Who has the power to stop this? has something been done to stop it already? The poison in the food, air, water, everlasting conflicts around the world, shortage of food and water, despite the huge advancements in medicine we still have people dying on easily curable diseases, cancer growth has exploded and everyone is pretending it’s some sort of incurable disease while the treatment is simple, natural food and healthy diet. Technologies have been made available which could and should replace parts of the system that seems to be designed to make individual dependent on the society, yet they are not applied practically. Nearly everything could and should be upgraded or totally changed

    What I’m saying is, Those people who talk of “conspiracy theories” have looked at the world, at the problems we are facing, have asked themselves questions such as why is nobody doing anything about this or that and many times they’ve simply arrived at the conclusion that there is a powerful group who could do things in a different way, but chooses not to.

    They want us to have war, disease, poverty, hunger and violence while we occupy our minds with entertainment; sex, drugs, movies, sports, cars, lifestyle, fashion anything you can think of as long as you are not thinking what is wrong with the world. Just go to your work, earn money so you can pay your taxes, watch tv, have a wank, live in your little box and support their very expensive lifestyle. Every year someone is getting richer and every year more people are getting poorer. Someone is making a good business out of this misery.

    I could come up with good bunch of really interesting documentaries and writings about the current state of the world but those who are interested should be able to stumble upon them anyway, however I will link this one quite recent document about my kind of guy:
    The Garbage Warrior – Architecture taken on another level.

  23. bensteigmann says :

    I cover various items about how Round Table groups have manipulated political events in the essay I will attach, but for now, I will demonstrate how plausible it is when one understands the underlying mechanism – financial parasitism.

    Irving Fisher was hailed by Milton Friedman as “the greatest economist the United States has ever produced.”: http://tinyurl.com/7bv9nds

    Robert Hemphill was the first credit manager of the Atlanta Federal Reserve, who wished to end fractional reserve lending, believing instead that banks should keep 100% reserves, and collaborated with Fisher on this: http://tinyurl.com/82axvkj

    He drafted a bill that Fisher supported called S.3744:: http://tinyurl.com/8a84x7l

    He noted, in the forward to Fisher’s text 100% Money, the following:

    “If all bank loans were paid, no one would have a bank deposit, and there would not be a dollar of currency or coin in circulation.

    This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money, we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent monetary system.

    When one gets a complete grasp upon this picture, the tragic absurdity of our helpless position is almost incredible, but there it is.”: http://tinyurl.com/89sh76f

    This is by no means local to the U.S. In 1960 the Radcliffe Committee examined the functions of the Bank of England. Vol. 1, Memoranda of Evidence (from the committee investigation), stated (p. 9. 4.: http://tinyurl.com/6mefpag) – “Because an entry in the books of a bank has come to be generally acceptable in place of cash it is possible for banks to create the equivalent of cash [i.e. - credit]. Thus a bank may pay for a security purchased from a customer merely by making an entry in its books to the credit of that customers account; or it may make an advance by means of a similar entry. In either case an increase in it’s deposits will occur.”

    The New Zealand Report of the Royal Commission on Monetary, Banking, and Credit Systems, published in 1956, stated:

    “The fact that a large proportion of our money supply comes into existence as a result of the operations of the trading banks obviously disturbed many witnesses who appeared before us.” (http://tinyurl.com/7sfonbx)

    Commenting on all this, Hemphill stated, before the House of Representatives:

    “… there has been for 200 years, since one certain man came into power as a financial genius, Mayer Anselm Rothschild, who was born in 1790 since he came into power there has been a constant, organized, shrewd conspiracy to convince the people of the world that this is not true, to convince men against their own judgment, against a thing which is self-evident.

    And that conspiracy has involved the press, it has involved the pulpit, it has involved our a conspiracy to mislead people about the importance of a very simple thing – money.

    The interests who promote this confusion profit by retaining for themselves the monopoly of manufacturing our money.”: http://tinyurl.com/8x2oqvv

    • bensteigmann says :

      And thus we have a good introduction to my most recent work- a collaboration between myself, Jan Irvin, and George Hunt (who attended the UNCED fourth World Wilderness Conference, which preceded the 1992 RIO Earth Summit, and recorded audio of Maurice Strong and Edmund de Rothschild announcing that “sustainability” measures would be used a a means to create a New World Financial system). He put this forth in a video, which the project is based on. What the video shows is that many of the Global initiatives taken in the name of “sustainability” constitute a new rendition of Communism, a new false liberation ideology. This presentation clearly shows the World power of an “Anglo-American” (Read – Rothschild, with some Rockefeller assistance) Financial Coterie , which is proven to carry out Rothschild ambitions. And, as expected, Rothschild is at the center of this power structure. Here, people like you and I are called “the cannon fodder, unfortunately, that populates the Earth”. And a banking system set up by and for the Rothschilds is shown to be the centerpiece of the new mode of organization that “sustainability” measures will create. The attendees (like Maurice Strong) have no qualms about acknowledging the dominance of that family in World Affairs. Strong states that there is “no better person” to spearhead this project than Edmond de Rothschild, and that he “epitomizes in his own life that positive synthesis between environment and conservation on the one hand and economics on the other”. In other words, Rothschild is the leader of both international finance and this pseudo-environmentalist movement resting on the twin pillars of the myth of anthropogenic global warming (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/14051/Climate-Depot-Special-Report-AZ-Climate-Reality-Check–SubPrime-Science-Exposeacute-The-claims-of-the-promoters-of-manmade-climate-fears-are-failing–Presented-to-UN-Summit-) and the myth of overpopulation (http://overpopulationisamyth.com/) (this movement is of course led by people creating environmental havoc, and significant environmental problems are ignored because of this perversion of ecology). In the same way, that dynasty was the leader of Communism in earlier decades (Bakunin, Marx’s chief rival, noted that Marx was working for the Rothschilds: http://www.connexions.org/RedMenace/Docs/RM4-BakuninonMarxRothschild.htm – see, as an introduction to that, the following text, entitled “Red Symphony”: http://americandeception.com/index.php?action=downloadpdf&photo=PDFsml_AD/Red_Symphony-Landowsky-1968-30pgs-POL.sml.pdf&id=340), which also was based on a false representation of capitalist economics, and was a hand-maiden of international finance.

      I subsequently obtained copies of the documents from the conference which call for things that are extremely malicious, namely, World Government and mass-scale population reduction, initially to assist somebody in a court case. That person disappeared, but I still had the documents, so I then forwarded this to Jan Irvin, who conducts interviews I consider relevant. He interviewed George, and everything is posted here: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/george-hunt-interview-say-what-is-unced-the-elite-and-the-environmental-movement-135/

      My contribution will be to write a corroborating essay. A rough draft of that, which will be massively expanded, is in the middle part of the comments section. The essay will first focus on the Club of Rome, and how they created fantasies concerning Anthropogenic Global Warming and Overpopulation. Then it will focus on the Rothschild empire, and it’s three pillars – Zionism, Communism (which has metastasized), and the Cecil Rhodes Anglo-American ultra-imperialist movement – and how these all converge and lead to World Government. Then I will focus on various means by which population reduction measures have been, and will be, implemented. Right now, I have an essay in the middle of the comments section that might provide insight: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/george-hunt-interview-say-what-is-unced-the-elite-and-the-environmental-movement-135/#comment-2827

  24. Sig says :

    @ Los Muertos:

    [quote]which has absolutely no evidence to indicate its existence, on the naked hope that maybe someday some shred of evidence might surface to support it?[/quote]

    This article was a nice read, had to laugh several times when reading it. But that’s more because of the total lack of understanding you have in the subject matter. Nice bla bla bla with some commonly used pseudoskeptical nonsense, and the one

    I haven’t seen the film Trive I must say. And when looking at some reviews I will never see it. Another typical ‘new age’ disinfo project like Zeitgeist and so on. Standard counterintelligence, of taking parts of the truth and mixing it will bullshit.

    It seems to me that your own research into the NWO subject only was a few minutes? I might presume that when you came up with the idea of writing this piece have at least have tried to delve into the subject matter? (besides watching Thrive then, I presume) Because YOU say that there is no proof, but have you looked for it? I agree with you that the one who makes the claim has to provide proof, but you started this thread of course. You are the one who started with the ‘hostile’ claims and placing yourself above those fruitloops. So now you don’t get so easy off the hook by letting the others do the work.

    And its quite painfully to see that you don’t even understand de most basic principles. I’m willing to lift up that veil a little bit for you, but then I must know that you are willing to make an effort and devote some time into it. There is no such thing as a crash course into the NWO stuff, it encompasses almost every aspect of our lives and our societies.

    It’s also clearly to see that you only dealt with complete morons as ‘believers.’ If you speak to people who see that 1991 Bush speech as definitive ‘proof’ than its OK to mock them. But on the other hand, if you think that this whole ‘theory’ only has its base on Youtube and that you can ‘debunk’ everything by looking up some trivia on some Wikipedia pages, then it’s definetely not worth both our time.

    So, where’s your ‘cutoff point’ at this? Can you define where your grey area is, between ‘OK, this has some value in it’ and ‘I really don’t believe a word they’re saying’

    PS: to be shure: you know that the New World Order is a commonly used term in global politics, aight? Besides Bush several 100 of other high ranked politicians have used it and keep on using it. It’s just a term for ‘globalisation’ in its simplest form. The division line between the believers and the skeptics is whether its with benevolent or malevolent for the ’99%’

    • bluecollarcritic says :

      @Sig

      Don’t expect a real reply from Muertos. If you do get one it will be something along the lines of “Meeeh” or “Typical Conspiracy Theory”. If you do though its actually good as it means your points are difficult to counter/debate if at all.

      BTW – Great points.

  25. Sig says :

    @ Ben Steigman:

    That’s one of the main problems, just like i mentioned in my posting above, that there is no crash course into this stuff. People like you and me who know more then average about it, tend to want to make all our points at the same time. You are overwhelming those poor guys here with dozens of links and information, names and so on that they propably never heard before. This is not working this way, therefore I posted my proposal in the posting above.

    And that’s of course for all the skeptics who posted here. Can you formulate some specificcaly what your main problems are, not all of you separately, but together.

  26. Sig says :

    Discopro_Joe said:
    [quote]In the psychology of belief, I’ve noticed a big correlation between believing in creationism, and believing in a NWO.[/quote]

    Novos Ordo Seclorum; The New Order of the Ages. A secular global system based on science and eugenics.

    And the main religions are the first obstacles that have to be eradicated, in which they do quite a good job, it seems…

    Thus the Christians see in this new coming system a system with Lucifer at the top. That’s why the more fundamentalist Christians also try to stop its creation.

    But people who literally believe the Bible are stopid, not people who can clearly see what seems to be planned for us…

  27. Rofflemow says :

    If you can’t accept a GDE, like me, you can still push much of this “debunking” aside. Since all of this is only meant to disprove a unified agenda, it leaves oodles of holes open for individuals who happen to occasionally work together.
    Would you deny that money means power? You would deny logic.
    Would you deny that power corrupts men? You would deny science. (Stanford Prison Experiment. Elementary stuff, here).
    Would you deny that any man with power is more likely to utilize it for the purpose of continuing it? If you would, you lack rationality.
    So, with the above in place, does it not make sense that individuals with the most money in a country that’s in horrible debt would be working as hard as they could to perpetuate any profitable situation? And that their methods for doing so could incredibly easily sway to immorality, even going so far as to indirectly kill people or incite wars?
    Now, I may not be showing you solid evidence, but logic should be enough evidence for you. If not, then it’s not ridiculous for me to request that you produce your own evidence that;
    A.) Money does not mean political power
    B.) Power does not corrupt
    C.) When one makes billions of dollars, one wants to continue making billions of dollars.
    Good luck, have fun!

  28. Skepticalskeptic says :

    A response to your 4 questions, just for fun:

    1) Person: I would be foolish to claim a specific person is involved in the GDE. With one exception, David Rockefeller, he directly confessed in his memoirs. Google it. Though, he could have totally just been F**king with people… I doubt it though based on other things he’s said/done.

    2) Why so long: What moron would put a timetable on something like imperial domination? But look at media consolidation, “infotainment” propaganda, the NDAA 2012 which authorizes the indefinite detention of American citizens, attempts to censor the internet all over the world including SOPA in US (and in the process control the flow on knowledge/dissent), unprecedented financial private interest control of elections in an illogical ruling of Citizens United v FEC, and income disparity…just to name a few recent developments… I think private interest/ the elite are doing pretty damn well….wouldn’t ya say.

    3) Why are they incompetent: First, wealthy, powerful elite *do* rule the world…far from completely however…and hardly domination. Second people in power go to extraordinary means (historically speaking) to maintain such power. Third, powerful people form alliances with other powerful people (a conspiracy) to attain more power. That said and done…powerful people fight and squabble amongst themselves to have more power than the next guy. I think their occasional incompetence would be a result of internal power struggles… as a misanthropic skeptic I hardly attribute to humans any capability to work together completely and single mindedly….especially powerful ones.

    4) What would they do with it: Can’t pretend I’m sort of magical mind reader that knows what they are thinking, so I’ll have to speculate. People with that sort of aloof mindset tend to think of themselves as godlike, and gods rule the world. Like any sort of goal, it starts with creative vision based on a mindset. But historically, once people gain power…they find some other way to try to gain more power.

    To put it more succinctly, once they have power…they’d probably just look for more.

    Hope thats something for you to have a little fun with, at the very least.

    • bluecollarcritic says :

      UH OH – Bad News for GDA Deniers like this articles author (Muertos), another GDA Initiative Kicks In and this one can’t be chalked up to government corruption and the “It’s for your safety” argument is too weak and over used for most to buy on this one.

      “TSA to Pace Secret Agents on Chicago Busses to Identify Pre-Crime”.

      How will would be debunkers like Muertos explain away this new Homeland Security initiative? Perhaps with the ever popular “Its For Your Safety” line.

      DETAILS:

      Democratic Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee is partnering with the TSA to place undercover agents on Chicago Busses. Under the program launched last week, passengers on busses run by the Houston METRO system will be subjected to random questioning and searches from “counter-terrorism experts” hired by the Transportation Security Administration. Yes, the very same TSA that has become notorious for invasive pat-downs at airports across the country are opening up a new front in their war on privacy, and it’s on Houston’s public busses.

      Yes this is the same TSA that was supposedly created solely for the purpose of airport screening. But when your with Homeland Security and can use the line “We’re fighting terrorism” to justify anything why not take advantage of these untrained, unlicensed governmental goons and spread fear of government outside the airports. After all only a small percentage of the population flies and so the next logical stepping stone in the rollout of the TSA is bussing and trains.

      The real question is how will the “There’s no such thing as a Global Governance Agenda” crowd like Muertos explain away this expansion by the TSA.

      How about it Muertos? You can’t just chalk this one up to government corruption because there’s no money to be made with this initiative.

      Read The Full Story at: http://rt.com/usa/news/tsa-bus-safe-houston-403/

      • muertos says :

        How does the placing of TSA agents on buses in Chicago prove the existence of a vast secret conspiracy to enslave the world? Did you even read the article?

      • bluecollarcritic says :

        “How does the placing of TSA agents on buses in Chicago prove the existence of a vast secret conspiracy to enslave the world? Did you even read the article?”

        Actually the TSA is just a conspiracy theory so there’s no need to answer the question. That is so long as you don’t travel. You see the whole “XXX doesn’t exist” is a relative opinion. If one has never been on an airplane then up until a few years ago the idea of a TSA could easily be sold to that person as being a Conspiracy Theory because they themself have not experienced it. I imagine that if you asked Muertos just 5 years ago about the TSA they would say that it’s a conspiracy theory that the TSA plan to physical grope people in their privates during airport screening or that in a few years they would be using TSA outside the airport. That’s because it had not yet happened and so it’s easier to dismiss.

        It’s this same “It hasn’t happened yet so it’s nothing but a conspiracy theory” take that forced must of these debunkers to change from saying there is no such thing as the Bilderbergers to saying yes there is a Bilderberger group but it’s just old rich folks trading stock tips and jokes. (or something along those lines). Whatever the “conspiracy theory” what’s key is to always deny you ever labeled as conspiracy theory something that has come to pass and that you are ready to change your story in case something happens (i.e. the exposure of the Bilderberger meeting in an established main stream newspaper a few years back) that makes your “it’s a conspiracy theory” impossible to sell to anyone but the most die-hard fellow debunkers who will deny the possible existence of a GDA even when they are being carted off to the camps themselves. I must say I wish I could be a fly that day just to hear what kind of creative excuse they come up with when the TSA goons (oir similar police force) comes to cart them away.

        But Muertos is right in that the presence of the TSA on busses in Chicago is by itself not proof of a Global Domination Effort. In fact all of the examples of a GDA when examined as isolated incidents are by themselves not proof if a GDA and that’s is critical to the debunker agenda. Let me say that by agenda I don’t mean an effort to deliberately lie to the public as I believe that Muertos sincerely believes what they are saying. I don’t believe that Muertos or the ThriveDebunked site is cointelpro but is instead the honest effort of some well-meaning individuals to try and dismiss the idea of a Global domination agenda. No normal human being wants something like a GDA opr even a police state to come to pass just so they can say they were right all along. Its normal to want to disbelieve such a thing is even possible and some will go to great lengths to not only convince themselves but others as well.

        Sadly though the truth is undeniable, there is a coordinated effort to move the traditional representative republic form of government of the United States of America to a police state with an all-powerful dictator where the elected politicians are just window dressing, something to have so that the real power can claim that there is representation of the people. I just hope that people like Muertos wake up to the reality before its to late because we sure could use their skills with the words to wake the rest of the slumbering public.

    • Mr. Anon says :

      Your NDAA statement is factually incorrect. The bill specifically states “nothing here shall be used to change existing law”. So much for it being evidence.
      SOPA’s main problem results in a small semantic error; it outlaws sites “enabling” piracy, which would prevent blogs like these from existing. But again, you wouldn’t have the vast majority of members of Congress and the President himself oppose such a bill if it was “part of the conspiracy”, would you?

  29. Max says :

    They already have control of the planet. No world domination here. There will be the different unions, there will never be one world government, just more cooperation and control, and definitely more centralization. You are an idiot to think a new world order doesn’t exist when it is used all the time in the financial world, funny thing is its been in place for a long time now. The most creepy thing that is real about it is they do openly talk about population control and sterilization of the masses. If something unethical or outright illegal wasn’t being discussed in Bilderberg, they might allow people inside. Lots of conspiracy theorists do lots of injustice to the issue by coming up with these extreme scenarios, although what they are doing is pretty extreme, it is actually civilized and organized, and funny thing is, you won’t know it’s happening, except for countries giving up their sovereignty to join regional unions. What the author wants is the establishment to come out and say it’s happening, when that will never ever happen. Only way you can tell is watching power being centralized, and extreme measures to terrorism being taken, for example cameras on streets, body scanners everywhere even at grocery stores, tsa setting up outside the airport, etc. It is there, and the author is doing an injustice to people by saying it isn’t there.

    PS. I have spent thousands of hours studying this.

  30. SAM says :

    HEY MUERTOS I JUST WATCHED LOOSE CHANGE 2ND EDITION ON YOUTUBE LAST NIGHT AND IT ROCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROCK ON DYLAN, ALEX, AND FOSTER, YOU RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALL YOU STUPID PUSSIES SUCK ON HERE SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • muertos says :

      Wow. This could be my new all-time favorite comment. “ALL YOU PUSSIES SUCK ON HERE SUCK”? That’s priceless! I’m going to have to start using that in everyday conversation.

      • sorbes says :

        I am..just…baffled. This is for real? No one should ever need to use that many exclamation points. He knows he is already YELLING, right?

    • DiscoPro_Joe says :

      Ha ha….It looks like a 14-year-old has just discovered conspiracy theories on the Internet! That is, after having seen hundreds of Hollywood movies, and after having played countless video games.

      Loose Change, eh? Ahh…the memories of the opening sequence with the Statue of Liberty in front of the camera, the NYC skyline in the background, and the “woo” music to send chills down your spine. Those were the days!

      And then, there’s the memory of discovering Screw Loose Change on Google Videos two days later, along with 911Myths.com and Mark Roberts’ materials, and having felt so stupid for having temporarily fallen for the B.S. claims of Loose Change and the “9/11 Truth Movement” to begin with. Yep, yep….

      Anyway….

      Speaking of video games, here’s a little idea for Foster Gamble & Co: if he’d like to create a small new cash cow for Thrive, and if he’d like to appeal more to kids like Sam, then he ought to produce a “Thrive” epic-saga video game!

      In the first stage of the game, you could attempt to make crop circles from an alien spacecraft without being seen or detected by humans. (Every time you get caught in the act, you’d either die, or lose a lot of hit points.)

      In the second stage, you (as a human living on Earth) could build a “free energy machine” using the “special information” of the crop circles. You must do this without being seen or detected by government agents. Every slip-up will result in your assassination, or in losing lots of hit points.

      At the end of the second stage when you complete the construction of your free energy machine, the government agents will soon discover it, and send a SWAT team to your laboratory. You can use the special powers of your new machine to shoot “torus beams” at the evil invaders and win the battle!

      Finally, in the third and final phase of the game, you will use your special “torus powers” to fly all over the world fighting the New World Order! The NWO is planning on destroying most of the world’s population, and no one believes you when you warn everyone, so you must take on their entire global military forces alone in a dogfight with your special powers.

      After defeating the military, the final bosses reveal themselves to be reptilian aliens who will battle you in final fight scene. They have the same torus powers as you, so you must use your quick wit, speed, and skill to ultimately beat them and save the world!

      Everyone on Earth then worships you like a king, and you proclaim, “Now we can all ‘thrive’ together!”

      The good-guy aliens who made the crop circles would then come down to Earth by the millions to join the humans, and everyone would live happily ever after….

      Well, anyway, someone ought to send this video-game idea up the chain of command to ol’ Foster, and see what he thinks. I bet kids like Sam would love it! And on crazy conspiracy-theory brainwashing, Foster could get ‘em while they’re young. ;-)

      Ha ha…I could just see Sam playing this game and yelling at the bad guys on the screen, “ALL YOU STUPID PUSSIES SUCK ON HERE SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

      • muertos says :

        This is possibly the most brilliant and entertaining comment I’ve ever received on this blog. Thanks for giving me a good laugh!

      • Hollywood Tomfortas says :

        Well, anyway, someone ought to send this video-game idea up the chain of command to ol’ Foster, and see what he thinks.

        Yo Joe!

        I did just that. You see I’ve known Foster personally for 30 years now, so I have a special direct pipeline to him.

        Here is the message I sent to them:

        Hi Foster & Kimberly,

        I know you guys could use periodic comic relief and the periodicity of such relief appears to be weekly. For example, last week, I created the Foster Thrive Club and the Thriveteers based on the Mickey Mouse Club. But this week I was really outdone!

        A wry commenter on the Thrive-Debunked blog, calling himself DiscoPro_Joe, has come up with a wonderful idea for an epic/saga-themed THRIVE Video Game.

        Anyway, Joe, it’s a great and funny piece. I hope to see more satirical contributions from you.

        I’ve also been re-posting your epic video game idea on a number of different blogs involved with THRIVE.

      • DiscoPro_Joe says :

        I’m glad you like the ideas, guys. ;-) Thanks for re-posting them on other sites!

        If I think of any other inspirations, I’ll post them here.

    • Rehsab Thgir says :

      ALL-CAPS. Very impressive.

      • muertos says :

        Just remember Rehsab, whenever you are confronted with information you don’t like, thanks to SAM we now know that the appropriate response is to shout “ALL YOU STUPID PUSSIES SUCK ON HERE SUCK!”

  31. tim says :

    Muertos;
    I love a good discussion, we all learn. If there is no agenda to dominate the world, please explain Brizenski’s book “the Grand Chessboard”. A quick summary is “if America’s millitary want to stay “primary”, we need to control the oil in the mid-east”. The neo-cons of the Project for a new American Century of which many became the Bush Administration, put this plan into action. How many wars are going on in the mid-east now? How broke is America? Read “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” by John Perkins and tell us there is no evidence. Watch “Israel did 911: all the proof in the world”. Mentioning that on Fox News got Judge Napilano fired. Why are we never allowed to talk about Israel? Look at what they did to Helen Thomas. You are easily identified as a tribe member.

    • Clayton Murray says :

      You may have your suspicions about others, but it does nothing to help our case as those who want answers and discussions on a civil level in the quest for truth. I don’t wish for people in a discussion labeling me as a Nazi or calling me a communist for my statements or stances, and by that same token, it would do well if you didn’t call others who raise legitimate questions a “tribe member.” Please.

  32. Sio says :

    I LOVED this. I have always wondered if there really is a NWO in effect, shouldn’t it have been completed by now? Do these conspiracy theorists not realise that what they spout about totalitarian states is a pile of bullshit? Are they really that blind to the facts? If we were truely in a totalitarian world they wouldn’t be able to peddle their paranoia as the content would be censored and/or removed and they would’ve been arrested by the powers that be. What we have here is in fact freedom of speech that has descended into verbal anarchy. It’s like trying to argue evolution with a creationist. You can have all the evidence in the material world to back you up, but you will never trump a paranoid delusional wreck with enough blind faith to power America for the next 200 years!

  33. BlueCollarCritic says :

    . I notice that Muertos nor any other so called debunker here has been able to explain away the inconvenient fact about the Bilderberg Group and it annual conference going unreported in the main stream news media for decades even though its annual meeting brings together the largest group of the world’s most powerful and wealthy. That’s one of those highly inconvenient truths about the Bilderberg group/meeting that debunkers do not like to deal with. Just as Muertos has done here, they either ignore the question or they use derogative terms and name calling as their defense.

    Now that the Bilderberg Group/Conference is actively being reported on this year and therefore can no longer be denied (does not exists) by anyone or anything, I see that the fake “debunker” crowd ( as opposed to the legitimate debunkers who go after things like fake supernatural events and con men/women) are putting a fresh spin on the Bilderberg item by claiming that

    A) No major media figure/representative has ever denied that there was a Bilderberg Group or that it did not have an annual gathering of the world’s most powerful and influential individuals in government, private industry, finance and even Royalty.

    B) The annual conference is just a get-together to bounce ideas off of each other about how to make the world a better place for all of us (I guess it’s because those elite few really do love the rest of us despite the fact that many are often caught in scams that cheat the middle/lower class people out of money and property) . After all that’s the only reason the world’s most powerful and wealthy would get together in a private manner every year instead of a public forum with the media invited, right? Besides, it’s not like it’s difficult to orchestrate that kind of gathering. Granted it does require the use of governmental agencies (for security) and they do have to make great efforts to keep as much about the conference as they can from being disclosed. When the staff at the hotel hosting the event are told they could face criminal prosecution (let alone be fired) for relaying any info about what goes on at the meeting to any persons outside of the conference. While that is standard for private meetings of a secure nature, this meeting includes government official who in some countries like the US are not legally allowed to attend such private meetings; it’s called the Logan Act.

    Regardless of what you think about the Bilderberg group or a GDA (Global Domination Agenda) the thing you can’t deny and that goes for Muertos is that such a private gathering of world leaders with members of private industry and royalty is NOT OK and should NOT be tolerated. If the wealthy would like to get together in private that’s fine but including acting government officials is NOT OK! And just because the names do not appear on the so called official attendee list , what is now handed out by Bilderberg as the supposed official list of attendees, numerous alternative media persons have captured on film/video political leaders in attendance and that is ILLEGAL!

    I just don’t understand how so many of you out there cannot see the cause for alarm with these private gatherings. Do you just not care about the future or what?

    • muertos says :

      Why do you assume that because I don’t think Bilderberg meetings is evidence of some conspiracy to enslave the world that I must, by definition, wholly endorse everything they do or their motives in doing so?

      The only relevant issue is whether the Bilderberg Group is part of a conspiracy to enslave the world. It isn’t. You haven’t presented a single piece of evidence that even remotely suggests it is. Your alarm is based entirely on innuendo and paranoia–not fact.

      “Do you just not care about the future or what?”

      This question contains an implicit assumption that the Bilderberg Group is by itself a threat to the future of the planet. That assumption has no basis whatsoever. Not only do I not endorse that assumption, but it’s nonsensical. And my rejection of this assumption has nothing to do with trusting the Bilderberg Group or endorsing what they do or believe. It has everything to do with the fact that there’s no evidence anywhere to support the assumption.

    • raspberry says :

      the Bilderberg Group and it annual conference going unreported in the main stream news media for decades even though its annual meeting brings together the largest group of the world’s most powerful and wealthy

      But, it *is* and *has been* reported in the MSM for decades, as a quick Google news search will reveal.

  34. Hrzy says :

    I read the entire thing, and you know what, I think a lightbulb just turned on. It’s a funny feeling when you realize most of your thoughts have been soley based on “confirmation bias”. Well the internet caused it, but the internet solved it. So thank you :)
    David.

    • muertos says :

      You’re welcome! This kind of comment makes all my effort worth it. I’m glad this blog could help you see things from a different angle.

      • Beenie says :

        After reading this article and the majority of its comments, my attitudes have also changed somewhat – which is an achievement for an article of this type. Also, considering some of the crude generalisations and derogatory comments made about ‘conspiracy theorists’, it surprises me that you talk a fair amount of sense – but we are all human and we can all fall victim to disdain for our opposition, when we should ideally encourage each other to improve our arguments in the search for knowledge, since they will never really be settled.

        I have looked into many ‘conspiracy theories’ – 9/11, Bilderberg, secret societies, Rick Simpson oil, the illuminati and the NWO and I agree on a personal level, that I am a person who tends to distrust mainstream information. But I have perhaps acted hypocritically before looking into things extensively, ie taking some alternative sources of information for face value because of ‘gut instinct’, possible subconscious triggers or falling prey to fear mongering.

        Regardless of the individual reasons which lead many to believe such theories and the fact that many theories are extremely hard to prove, the problem also lies in misinformation. Sadly, both conspiracy theorists and mainstream information sources tend to revolve around a false, cherry picked version of reality, in many circumstances.

        That being said, there are many reasons that conspiracy theories should be entertained, mainly due to the fact that they expose some genuine corruption, regardless of an assumed motive. More importantly, the ‘action elements’ (mainly the government and big business) in your diagram are already factually approved to be the ‘perpetrators’.

        There are more than 100,000 dead in Iraq because of a single conspiracy theory – that there were nuclear weapons in Iraq. This was a conspiracy theory pushed by the government and the media and for what gains? Now, I am not inferring that the media are part of the alleged NWO, but there is obviously a massive problem with misinformation in the media, in this case in support of our own governments, which needs to be removed and the majority of this is rightly being attacked fully by conspiracy theorists, albeit misguided aggression.

        The attack on conspiracy theorists is irrelevant, in fact, conspiracy theories can provide possible idealogical benefits to the current capitalist state. For one, they can paper over the cracks of the actual reasons for corruption, making it harder for you to be taken seriously as an individual when expressing alternative views on the improvement of society. Another reason is that if people want to believe that the elite have an all-mighty power to control the world,  ‘powerful’ and affluent members of society will let them assume that they are in such positions. This is definitely just speculation, but consider this; what sounds easier – destroying the illuminati and its series of interlinked, age-old societies, or gradually and individually bringing lawful justice to the criminals in government and big business. This would be a much fairer route, not just targeting underprivileged ‘criminals’ who cannot defend themselves against a merciless legal system which poses as law and cannot enforce itself without undermining its own system. Deny this – the government makes cuts, local councils feel the cuts like all other businesses and they use oppresively use fines as revenue streams. Look into this – since councils are registered as companies, you have no obligation to honour their unlawful, unsigned and unaccountable contracts, which are based on a false agreement to pay extortive fines/taxes, caused by incompetent governance and a broken system that we are not trying to fix, because of pedantry in these circumstances. 

        We all want a better society for ourselves, but corruption will always exist. Our current system is evidently crumbling and we cannot paper over the cracks any longer. The only way to find any proof of an agenda against us, is to unite and ask for justice and the truth to prevail. If it does not happen then we have the right to lawfully rebel, in search for a better system – not ideology, rather, working on our system so it morphs with the times to prevent trending corruption.

        Perhaps some see the government, banks, media and big business as part of the NWO because they are responsible for massive problems with society.

        This is where my criticism of your argument comes in. Debunking is necessary in search for the truth, but if no gains are made in terms of knowledge, then an article like this can be seen as negative, even though it poses positive messages on analysing flawed mental attitudes. Another flaw in arguments such as yours, is that they are similar conspiracy theories as they are based on imposed presumptions. You impose types of conspiracy theorists who act a certain way or believe things beyond all evidence – a kind of self fulfilling conspiracy ideology. But there are bound to be grey areas. I myself, almost entirely distrust the pharmaceutical industry and yet I still go to the doctor when I need to. I wouldn’t take symptomatic relief drugs if I had a serious condition, but I would take antibiotics  to cure the root of a bacterial illness.

        So, I don’t seem to fit into one of these black and white pictures of a distrusting, delusional conspiracy theorist.

        Long story short, I agree with you, but like all arguments, there all holes in areas and I believe you fail to acknowledge the importance of aiming to expose the factual reasons why these theories have gained weight – there is a high level of corruption, oppression, extortion, elite favouritism and social problems caused by irresponsible politics and poor business ethics – which for your information is why ‘Justin Beiber is so popular’ – because clever corporations realise there is money in supplying simplified forms if entertainment, keeping people docile.

        Also to the people who force conspiracy theorists into any one of many stereotypes, including mentally ill, distrusting etc, and to all those who say the NWO and other conspiracy theories are definitely do not exist, please open your eyes. You are as bad as the people you criticise and you ironically leave yourself vulnerable to misinformation.

  35. Curt Litza says :

    Not everyone who believes in a conspiracy theory is going to inflict hurt upon others. Here’s another deeper question. Wouldn’t “debunking” certain things also be a “conspiracy theory” within itself? Isn’t it in our nature, as intelligent beings, to ask questions? Wasn’t this country founded upon being able to express different ideas? Both “believers” and “debunkers”. These are all just words that can classify some sort of justification for opinions and or debates for what one person believes or would like to perceive “true”. I say if you don’t want to believe there is a hierarchy of social status that the 99% don’t know about……..then don’t. Really we should be allowed to think and believe or disbelieve anything, we as an individuals, want to. I say, keep informing the public over the interent about anything your heart finds viable as long as it isn’t hurting anyone physically or mentally. No one is holding a gun to my head. I decide what I think is true and what I stand for. Just like our “forefathers” did in the late 1700′s.

  36. Kent says :

    Great article! I’ve got a friend who comes at it with different arguments so, I’d like some help with bringing him back to reality. I’ll do my best to try to capture the most salient points and provide some of the quotes that he’s shared with me, etc. OK, so, he claims that an elite group of intellectuals, called the Fabians, agreed with goals of the Communists in establishing world socialism. However, the Communists tend to favor quick changes via force and violence while the Fabians seek societal transformation via gradualism (changes in legislation, etc.). Apparently, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), an off-spring of Royal Institute of International Affairs which came about via the efforts of Milner and Rhodes, is implementing the Fabian plan in the USA. And, almost all of our leadership are CFR members. Apparently, these dudes don’t shy away from calling for a weaker USA towards building a world order. For example, John Foster Dulles apparently said in 1939 that, “Some dilution or levelling off of the sovereignty system as it prevails in the world today must take place . . . to the immediate disadvantage of those nations which now possess the preponderance of power. . . The establishment of a common money. . . would deprive our government of exclusive control over a national money. . . The United States must be prepared to make sacrifices afterward in setting up a world politico-economic order which would level off inequalities of economic opportunity with respect to nations.” And, more recently, individuals like Richard Gardner (CFR member and advisor to President Carter) wrote that “In short, the ‘house of world order’ will have to be built from the bottom up. . . an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault.” Other quotes include those pertaining to the NAFTA treaty, like Kissinger (CFR) saying that it “is not a conventional trade agreement but the architecture of a new international system. . . the vital first step for a new kind of community of nations” and David Rockefeller (CFR) saying that it would be “criminal” not to pass the treaty because “Everything is in place–after 500 years–to build a true ‘new world’ in the Western Hemisphere.” These are all pretty convincing arguments. Do you have a counter to this line of thinking? I’d appreciate your thoughts! In the meantime, all the best!

    • Lee says :

      I have a counter to that line of thinking, where’s the evidence?
      Where’s the NAFTA superhighway?
      Where’s the “Common Money” which would replace the $?

      If NAFTA, CFR, etc are part of global domination agenda then they must be very ineffective because there has been no proof whatsoever of their erosion of national sovereignity.

      • alex says :

        absolutely no erosion of national sovereignty? What about the fact that Obama said he could get permission from the UN to go to war and that he didnt need to go to congress.

      • anticultist says :

        Going to war abroad with an international alliance such as you have done many times in recent decades, requires permission from the United Nations or NATO, this is dependant upon where you are asking to invade and with whom, there are differences between national and international policy.

        As Panetta himself stated:

        “Panetta: Let me for the record be clear again Senator so there is no misunderstanding. When it comes to the national defense of this country, the President of the United States has the authority under the Constitution to act to defend this country and we will. If it comes to an operation where we are trying to build a coalition of Nations to work together to go in and operate as we did in Libya or Bosnia, for that matter Afghanistan, we want to do it with permissions either by NATO or by the international community.”

      • sam says :

        You are completely cirvumventing the original statement anticultist. Many people in congress were angry that Obama was resorting to the United Nations to go to war and completely ignoring Congress. Of course United Nations is part of international policy, but the president also needs to consult Congress, or are you too brainwashed to know that? Going to the United Nations instead of Congress bypasses the checks and balances and erodes our national sovereignty

      • anticultist says :

        You just sound like a silly patriot sam, sorry you just don’t understand how international policy works, so in this case the one circumventing reality is you. Obama has no authority outside your countries borders, and if he doesn’t seek verification from the international community then he is acting illegally. He must consult them, or are you too fucking stupid to understand that ?

      • sam says :

        Are you an idiot anticultist? I was talking about the international community. I was talking about Congree. Many people in Congress were mad at Obama for making international policy decisions by relying on NATO, WITHOUT CONSULTING CONGRESS. Yes, he also needs to consult with internationl organizations, but he is circumventing Congress. That is at least an erosion of national sovereignty, or are you too stupid to even understand that.

        I AM NOT SAYING HE DOES NOT NEED APPROVAL FROM NATO OR WHATNOT, But our government needs approval from Congress first and foremost to declare war. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution.

      • anticultist says :

        I think it is clear who the idiot here is bro, and it sure as shit aint me son.

      • anticultist says :

        If you are saying Obama did not ask your congress if your country should go to war, I would think that is unlikely. If you are saying he is a dictator I also know that is not so. So explain exactly why you think Obama is eroding your national sovereignty perhaps ?

  37. Thế Thôi says :

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  38. tjmartin66x says :

    I see a lot of COINTEL on this site that provides more proof that the peace camp is chalk full of dissent whilst the war camp is on the same page: kill, kill, kill…

  39. Millie says :

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  40. PerspectiveFrmLogicalDeductions says :

    I love how Muertos never responds to any valid arguments, that have been posted to his all glorious debunking article. Though you seem to use the same logic as those, you have reduced to pure manipulated fodder. There have actually been some very articulate valid points made, and you seem to whole heartedly ignore them.

    Jeffrey says : June 29, 2012 at 10:38 pm
    “EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921

    allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA’s Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA’s role as a “new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis.” FEMA’s powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate the…”

    muertos says : June 29, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    “Sure.

    I would suggest for starters verifying what the text of the executive orders actually are, and that they are still in effect. In the summary you posted, in the space of 5 minutes I found two very significant inaccuracies.

    For example, whatever you’re quoting here claims, “EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.”

    Executive Order 11921 does no such thing. Here is a link to the real text of Executive Order 11921, and you’ll see it doesn’t say this at all:
    http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo/eo-11921.htm

    Though from your comment it seems you have not read the link you have provided yourself.

    Here are some excerpts from your link

    Sec 19 “(7) maintain United States Information Service staffs abroad for the conduct of public information for all agencies of the Government, recognizing that in a theater of operations the United States Information Agency would make available to the appropriate Commander all United States citizen personnel on the staff of the Agency, who agree to remain, to serve in support of psychological operations; and (8) lend appropriate support in psychological warfare to the military command in the theater or theaters of active military operations, and provide daily guidance and basic informational materials.”

    Also it amends certain aspects of other orders with this information Jeffrey provided:

    “By virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and pursuant to Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 1958 (72 Stat. 1799), Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 1973 (87 Stat. 1089), the National Security Act of 1947, as amended (50 U.S.C. 401 et seq.), the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (50 App. U.S.C. 2061 et seq.), and the Federal Civil Defense Act of 1950, as amended (50 App. U.S.C. 2251 et seq.), Executive Order No. 11490 of October 28, 1969, is hereby amended as follows:”

    It also reads that they may take over all means of credit, water, specialized scientist and much more, its a pretty long bill. It took me about an hour to completely read through it with all the legal mumbo jumbo. Also to read through the other bills that this specific bill amends in certain instances, took me another three (3) hours.

    But as I look at the time stamp on your comment from Jeffreys comment it only leaves a time span of exactly 27 minuets.

    Which leads me to logically deduce, that you took no time in responding, in a truthful manner to his comment. Which by your earlier comments you have stated that if person A lies or is misinformed about topic W, then why would anyone believe anything they say about topic X, Y, Z.

    You are either serious deluded in your perspectives of the world we all happen to share/live on, or you have alternative motives that you are not being truthful about.

  41. Tom Cicconi says :

    This article, is, without a shadow of a doubt, is incredible. I applaud Muertos for spending lots of time and energy on such a “fake subject”. I was once a poor soul who was scared shitless about all of this NWO crap. I then saw an article, written by Muertos, awhile ago on the Skeptic Project. I was feeling miserable, and wasn’t quite sure what to do with myself. After reading it, I suddenly, I started thinking about it, and how it makes no sense.

    I know he is retired or on a hiatus right now (depends on who you ask), I say, Thank you, to Muertos. And, honestly, how in the hell can anyone defy or find a way to make a counter argument on this? This guy put them face down in the mud, and freaking slapped off every counter argument they had.

    Thank you for this article, and have a nice day.

  42. Daniel J says :

    Thank you for taking the time to write this article. I’ve found it to be absolutely interesting and I couldn’t stop reading. Your rational explanation behind the conspiracy theorist’s way of thinking could also be applied to other ideologies. (Politics, Religion, Arguments with my wife). Thank you for giving me additional “tools” for processing opinions people tend to throw my way.

  43. Rell says :

    I’ve read the whole article and it feels like a breath of fresh air to have come across it. I’ve always been a person to question a lot of thing and not beliveing in everything i hear and just because a person says something is true doesn’t mean that it is.
    Well, the article was very informative and well organized with good examples to explain the points that were being made. It said everything that was hard for me to say myself.

    Being 19 years old, i won’t lie i sued to believe in the conspiracies. I would be paranoid, not getting any sleep and being youtube taking it all as fact. I’m pretty sure i contradicted myself since i said i questioned a lot of things.
    A while after believing in all of the Iluminati conspiracies i thought to myself “Aren’t there two sides to a story?” and if so “Why am i only hearing one side?” (The conspiracy theorist claims)
    A free society can not exist if one side of an issue is the only side speaking.

    So i started to open my mind and look at other points of view. I read skepdic websites etc. and supprisingly they started to make sense unlike the conspiacy theorists claims. Then i started become, Skeptical about the youutube videos and books that i’ve read. After, looking into them some more my eyes began to open and see how ridiculous these conspiracies were and how stupid it was of me to believe them. I mean i have to laugh at myself now, but im glad i decided to take my time and read articles such as yours that provide a sense of rational thinking.

    Now, i looked back at the Youtube videos and Many of them are absurd. They are ridiculous. I mean, these people think everything is a conspiracy and that anybody who is sucessful with a lot of money is in some secret society and wants to hurt them. Im not sue if you are familiar with Rap and R&B artist, but this one video i came across said that. Usher’s Ex wife blood sacraficed her youngest son for money. The person claimed it to be blood sacrafice because the boy was brain dead and she took him off of life support two weeks later. I was kinda upset by how ridiculous it was for people to just flat out believe this. I wondered, if people are really that close minded? and i even thought that the reasoning behind the video was stupid.
    Sadly, i had to point out to the person that her validity of her proof that is was blood sacrafice was wrong and she was making rash assumptions.
    I told her that
    1) Having someone on life supports costs $ and that would be reasonable of why she had him on the machine for two weeks. Maybe she didn’t have the money to offord it any longer
    2) The boy was pronounced brain dead by the doctors. Pretty much a vegetable.
    Why would a mother let her son keep suffering like that on life support?
    He was basically done?
    So would it make sense to keep him on a machine?
    So the blood sacrafice claim she made was nonsense.

    Even the videos about Jayz are stupid. Ppl think he’s in the illuminait and in one video ppl think he killed his mistress because Jayz’s wife called her the night before with threats?
    That doesn’t prove Jayz had something to do with her death.
    Other than that, i tend to stay of off youtube because some of the conspiracies and the nonesense ppl seem to make up is upsetting to me.
    I apologize for the long text.

    Thanks again for the article. It was very informative.

    • Rell says :

      Also, Excuse my spelling mistakes. I usually take my time to look over them but i’m rushing and have no idea when i’ll be back online. I just really wanted to leave a comment.

      Thanks again.

    • Wyboth says :

      It’s good to see people like you being helped by blogs like this. You’re who this is aimed at. Most of what I see on this blog are conspiracy theorists flaming muertos and I for disagreeing with them. It’s good to see that this blog isn’t entirely ignored.

      • a rational person says :

        amen. it’s good to see the whole world hasn’t been taken over by kooks and nutbags. u know what’s funny, foster gamble and the nutbags who keep flaming wyboth & muertos probably think this blog was written just to piss em off. it wasn’t. muertos says it a bunch of places but the nutbags don’t get it. glad to see someone out there hasn’t had their brain totally fried by this bullshit. more power to u, rell.

  44. Rell says :

    Also, sometimes i wonder why most people think it’s a conspiracy when the government hides things from them?
    I mean, what government in history have you known of the didn’t have secrets?

    If i were in charge of some form of government i would keep things secret. Some things i’d even keep secret for peoples own good. Not because i have some sinister plan to hurt them. Some things are better left unsaid and everyone doesn’t have to know every single thing the government does.

    Plus, as far the as the media goes…How can the government really know who would be getting highly classified information if they were to report it? It could be some crazy person who’s possibly an anarchist waiting for the perfect chance to do something destructive.

    So i don’t understand why it would be a surprise to so many people that their government would have secrets. Matter of fact, im for sure that everybod has a secret and regarding the conspiracy theorist it’s funny how many demonize the government for just have secrets.

    So i would ask a conspiracy theorist
    1) Is it bad to have a secret? (Im pretty sure everyone on this planet does at some point or another)

    2) Why does it seem like such a shock to you that there is corruption in the world?

    If you study history there has always been corruption. That doesn’t mean that it has always been some conspiracy to hurt you. Even today, no industry is perfect. There’s corruption in the food industry, Athletics (Doping scandals etc.), Music industry, fashion industry, etc…but does that mean the Illuminati are behind it? Or some global conspiracy to take over the world is the leading cause for this?

    3) If you had your own gov. or were in a postition of power wouldn’t you keep certain things to yourself for good reasons?

    I read a book by Robert Green called the 48 Laws of power and
    One quote was that in a postition of power
    “Learn to keep people dependent on you”
    Basically, never reveal too much information to someone to the point that they can do without you.
    This doesn’t mean that there is something sinister behind the motive.

    I just think that most conspiracy theorist…Not all but most are just very negative people and look to point the finger and blame someone for the worlds problems. Also, i think that many of them WANT to believe in a conspiracy to justify the way that they are thinking and to justify their perception of the world.

  45. alex says :

    I personally think this article is bad. He makes good points based on very bad premises. For example, he uses Acme bank to explain the holes in the consipracy theories. I would never use the Acme bank incident to explain why we are heading towards a new world order because even I dont think its a good topic to use. I WOULD use the fact that we’ve had several central banks and each time, there were presidents who absolutely abhorred it based on the fact that bankers could take have great control over government if they controlled the money supply. And that is no conspiracy. Look at the history of the banking system and you will see that bankers will use their lending power to essentially blackmail the leaders of that time. He also doesnt mention the fact that it was david rockefeller who helped to create both the CFR and the trilateral commission. What is the significance of that? David rockefeller openly admitted in a conference that he wanted a one world government.

    What about the fact that 3 of our recent presidents all were part of the Skull and Bones? That is too much of a coincidence if you ask me. Guess what all three of those same presidents are also friends with David Rcokefeller.

    Whats the big deal with the rockefellers? Im sure you guys dont see what the big deal is. Well the rockefellers created the rockefeller foundation. They supposedly trying to help the common people. But the Reece committee in the 1950′s found that they had underlying motives which include indoctrination of children from a young age using the public sschool system. Look it up.

    For those who say im BSing about the foundation having an alternative motive. Look at planned parenthood. And look up Norman Dodd, the guy who headed the reece committe investigation

    • anticultist says :

      ————————————————————————————————-
      “He also doesnt mention the fact that it was david rockefeller who helped to create both the CFR and the trilateral commission. What is the significance of that? David rockefeller openly admitted in a conference that he wanted a one world government.”
      ————————————————————————————————
      How about you tell us the significance of it ? A new world order has to be proven to mean something dangerous to human life and the people of the planet before you can start claiming the world is going to end because of it. You can’t just roll out a few circumstantial claims and expect the rest of normal society to get into a big panic because you don’t like what people are saying or doing.

      ————————————————————————————————-
      “What about the fact that 3 of our recent presidents all were part of the Skull and Bones? That is too much of a coincidence if you ask me. Guess what all three of those same presidents are also friends with David Rcokefeller.”
      ————————————————————————————————

      What about the fact that every president of the United States has supported the work of the Boy Scouts of America since its founding in 1910, and each served as honorary president of the BSA during his term in office. Oooohit’s an insidious conspiracy of the presidents to take control of america through cookies and charity !
      Seriously if you are going to start flapping about people being members of silly boys clubs, and people from ivy league universities getting all the good jobs, you are going to have to do a lot more homework than that.

      ————————————————————————————————
      “Whats the big deal with the rockefellers? Im sure you guys dont see what the big deal is. Well the rockefellers created the rockefeller foundation. They supposedly trying to help the common people. But the Reece committee in the 1950′s found that they had underlying motives which include indoctrination of children from a young age using the public sschool system. Look it up.”
      ————————————————————————————————

      Nope, because indoctrination can be good. Not all indoctrination is nefarious, look at drug rehabilitation, criminal rehabilitation. Look at all those types of indoctrination that have positive impacts upon society, you have to prove that the indoctrination is of negative consequence to society and people as a whole before you can start getting everyone else to think there is some shady plan.

      —————————————————————————————————
      “For those who say im BSing about the foundation having an alternative motive. Look at planned parenthood. And look up Norman Dodd, the guy who headed the reece committe investigation”
      —————————————————————————————————

      Planned Parenthood is the largest U.S. provider of reproductive health services, including cancer screening, HIV screening and counseling, contraception, and abortion. You think this is somehow a bad thing ?

      Please do enlighten us into your paranoid mind set about the insidious dangers of sexual education and health of the population.

      • alex says :

        I can tell you obviously dont do your research because of all the ridiculous statements you make. Here is an exceprt from Norman dodd, who was a part of the reece committee to investigate tax exempt foundations.
        ” We are now at the year 1908, which was the year that the Carnegie Foundation began operations. In that year, the trustees, meeting for the first time, raised a specific question, which they discussed throughout the balance of the year in a very learned fashion. The question is: “Is there any means known more effective than war, assuming you wish to alter the life of an entire people?” And they conclude that no more effective means than war to that end is known to humanity.
        So then, in 1909, they raised the second question and discussed it, namely: “How do we involve the United States in a war?”
        Well, I doubt at that time if there was any subject more removed from the thinking of most of the people of this country than its involvement in a war. There were intermittent shows in the Balkans, but I doubt very much if many people even knew where the Balkans were. Then, finally, they answered that question as follows: “We must control the State Department.” That very naturally raises the question of how do we do that? And they answer it by saying: “We must take over and control the diplomatic machinery of this country.” And, finally, they resolve to aim at that as an objective. ”

        Dont tell me after reading this that there is no evidence of nefarious indoctrination. Many people complain of the terrible public school system we have and this is exactly why. People like the rockefellers want the public education system to be used for indoctrination not for learning. Please don’t tell me youre too dumb to notice that which many others have noticed about our public school system. Most people just don’t know the real reason our system is like this.

        And about planned parenthood. The founder believed in Eugenics. You obviously have no idea about eugenics cause you think planned parenthood has no underlying motive. Margaret sanger also believed that eugenics could be achieved through abortion and contraceptives. Bet you didn’t know that you ignorant blockhead. Don’t make me elaborate on the evils of eugenics cause that just means youre too much of a blockhead to reason with.

        And im not gonna even bother to argue with you about your boy scouts comment. It’s your own fault if you don’t see the difference between a boy scouts club and a small secret club which is able to have its members basically occupy the top offices including the presidential office for the past 20 years. I’m not surprised you don’t see anything wrong with this

      • anticultist says :

        ————————————————————————————
        “I can tell you obviously dont do your research because of all the ridiculous statements you make”
        ————————————————————————————–

        In fact the very opposite is true, which should ironic for rational people reading this.

        ————————————————————————————–
        “Dont tell me after reading this that there is no evidence of nefarious indoctrination.”
        —————————————————————————————

        That is exactly what I am saying, you are talking about 1909, newsflash son, it’s 2013.

        ——————————————————————————————-
        ” Many people complain of the terrible public school system we have and this is exactly why. People like the rockefellers want the public education system to be used for indoctrination not for learning. Please don’t tell me youre too dumb to notice that which many others have noticed about our public school system. ”
        ——————————————————————————————–

        You being a prime example of how a dumbed down education can adversely affect ones thinking. Blaming other people for your own stupidity proves to others just how stupid you are.I come from a completely different back ground to you, where education and failures to learn are ones own social responsibilities and are a matter of individuals trying and seeking self improvement. Rockefeller has nothing to do with how stupid you are, you do.

        ————————————————————————————–
        “And about planned parenthood. The founder believed in Eugenics. You obviously have no idea about eugenics cause you think planned parenthood has no underlying motive. ”
        ————————————————————————————–

        I know a lot about eugenics, and it has nothing to do with sexual health and education. You really must be out of ammunition if your only defence against helping people to rise above sexual diseases and unwanted pregnancies is to use the eugenics card. Only a rank amateur would go down this route.

        —————————————————————————————
        “Bet you didn’t know that you ignorant blockhead. Don’t make me elaborate on the evils of eugenics cause that just means youre too much of a blockhead to reason with.”
        ————————————————————————————–

        You probably couldn’t educate me if you tried, I would wager I am already about 3 completed education levels above you. Plus I have access to the same information you have only I interpret it without a delusional bias predicated in an ignorant and uncivilised historic date line.

        —————————————————————————————
        “And im not gonna even bother to argue with you about your boy scouts comment. It’s your own fault if you don’t see the difference between a boy scouts club and a small secret club which is able to have its members basically occupy the top offices including the presidential office for the past 20 years. I’m not surprised you don’t see anything wrong with this”
        ——————————————————————————————

        All this does is prove your intellectual inferiority and inability to see when sarcasm is used to humiliate your argument point. Anyone reading it will have known full well I was aware of secret societies, and my reference to boys clubs and scouts as being as ridiculously nefarious will have got the comical comparison used to render you sterile. The very fact you ignore ivy leagues and good education being the main readon people end up in good jobs, and nepotism is rife in all social circles, further proves your sheer ignorance of how the real world operates.

        The short of this is a matter of your poor educational level, improper interpretation of facts and real world data, combined with a lack of critical thinking. You should really consider your own lack of skills before calling me out.

      • anticultist says :

        These links are for you Alex, I advice you to address them in yourself before going any further in life.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformation_bias

      • alex says :

        I like how you provided absolutely no facts to disprove any of my claims.

        “That is exactly what I am saying, you are talking about 1909, newsflash son, it’s 2013.”
        Lets see. to my knowledge, all these institutions he talked about are still operating today. Its on you to prove they dont have the same evil intentions I already proved to you they did.

        “I know a lot about eugenics, and it has nothing to do with sexual health and education. You really must be out of ammunition if your only defence against helping people to rise above sexual diseases and unwanted pregnancies is to use the eugenics card. Only a rank amateur would go down this route.”

        Lol you know nothing about eugenics. I’m using facts. Go do your research on Margaret Sanger before you start arguing about planned parenthood. Eugenics is ” a science that deals with the improvement (as by control of human mating) of hereditary qualities of a race or breed ”
        This INCLUDES contraception and abortion! You really know nothing about eugenics if you say it has nothing to do with sex. Plus, you didn’t address the fact that the founder of planned parenthood believed in eugenics and considered whites superior to darker skinned people.

        How about the next time you argue my points you come up with some facts instead of just “opinion” posts.

      • alex says :

        “That is exactly what I am saying, you are talking about 1909, newsflash son, it’s 2013.”

        First off. The investigation was done in the 1950′s and you can find many other examples of nefarious intention at the higher levels around that time. Second of all, 60 years is not that much time in terms of the life of a nation. Youre arguing that just because a few decades have passed, those same institutions which exist today, have changed their ways is completely stupid. Give me proof that they have let go of their original evil intentions. Youre also arguing that just because a small amount of time has passed that those institutions somehow changed their outlook and became better people? Lol start giving facts and stop giving me some lame argument like its “2013, its not 1909 so that means youre wrong”.

      • anticultist says :

        —————————————————————————————-
        “Its on you to prove they dont have the same evil intentions I already proved to you they did.”
        —————————————————————————————-
        Wrong again, you make the claims they do wrong, as I said already you have yet to prove they do wrong yourself, the claim is made by you, therefore you are responsible for providing the evidence first.
        Go and get a specific wrong doing that they have made regarding something in this world, just throwing out the word eugenics and then crying foul play is not good enough. Try harder or continue to be a failure.

        ———————————————————-
        “Lol you know nothing about eugenics. I’m using facts. ”
        ————————————————————
        Of course I know what eugenics is, you have provided no facts or evidence though, just name and a whine about how it’s being used negatively. You just sound like a little boy crying at shadows to his mummy.

        ———————————————————-
        “This INCLUDES contraception and abortion! You really know nothing about eugenics if you say it has nothing to do with sex. ”
        ———————————————————–

        But that’s not what I said, try reading it again and then try and come back without putting words down ontompaper I did not say. Here is a reminder of exactly what I said…[I know a lot about eugenics, and it has nothing to do with sexual health and education. ]…

        ————————————————————–
        ” Plus, you didn’t address the fact that the founder of planned parenthood believed in eugenics and considered whites superior to darker skinned people.”
        ————————————————————–

        I don’t have to worry about that because it was in the past when people were extremely racist, as we all know now, apart from you it seems, racism is born out of oignorance and the civil rights movement put racism like that in its place once and for all. You do live in the 21st century like the rest of us don’t you ?

        ———————————————————-
        “How about the next time you argue my points you come up with some facts instead of just “opinion” posts.”
        ———————————————————–

        How about you try dealing with modernity rather than history, and try not to use hindsight bias to validate your cognitive bias.

        Honestly this is like dealing with a dimwitted child.

        ————————————————————-
        “First off. The investigation was done in the 1950′s and you can find many other examples of nefarious intention at the higher levels around that time.”
        ————————————————————-

        Indeed it was, but the part you are quoting is talking about 1909 and the history and social context surrounding that time, this is about as unrelated to todays social norms as the people in the amazon jungle are to us.
        Once again using hindsight bias to proclaim past issues somehow evidence todays issues.

        Quite simply you just look stupid doing this.

        ————————————————————
        “Second of all, 60 years is not that much time in terms of the life of a nation. Youre arguing that just because a few decades have passed, those same institutions which exist today, have changed their ways is completely stupid. ”
        ————————————————————

        Actually the stupid argument is from you. You are claiming that antiquated opinions that were once held at the beginning of the 20th century are your evidence. Quite honestly it is embarassing.

        Next you will be telling us that because US presidents used to belive in slavery, that every president since the abolution of slavery has only been in office because of their love for black women slaves.

        ————————————————————-
        “Give me proof that they have let go of their original evil intentions. ”
        ————————————————————
        I don’t ned to, the very fact we live a society that is built upon hman rights and social justice for all, shows your argument to be childish and my rebuttal being self evident. However, if that is not enough, once again, you are the one making the claims so the burden of proof is on you not me. You ought to try and understand how debate functions before getting involved in it.
        I can happily ignore everything you say until you back up your claims, which I and all rational thinking people will likely do.

        ————————————————————–
        “Youre also arguing that just because a small amount of time has passed that those institutions somehow changed their outlook and became better people? Lol start giving facts and stop giving me some lame argument like its “2013, its not 1909 so that means youre wrong”.”
        ————————————————————–

        Actually if anything I would argue they are dead now, unless you know of some hidden technology that keeps people who were adults in 1900′s alive 113 years later ?
        Your argument is laughable, I only need to point out that it’s over a century later to prove everything you say is out of context with the modern society we live in, and the beliefs and people you are pissing your pants about are long dead.

      • a rational person says :

        hey alex, how bout u fuck off, nutbag? srsly, you loons give me gas and right now my intestines blowin up like a balloon animal after reading the vomity bullshit u’re spewing here. this “illuminati” “new world order” shit does not exist. the shit u’re dredging up isn’t evidence, it’s just a bunch of talking points that nutbags shit their pants over. it’d be funny if it wasn’t so goddam sad that u believe in this bullshit.

        is there any fart that comes out of alex jones’s mouth that u don’t believe? u probably believe in lizard people too…LIZARD PEOPLE! answer me hoss, u believe in lizard people or not? HUH?

        here’s the proof there ain’t no illuminati, hoss: nobody can keep a secret for 300 years. u can’t keep a secret between 2 ppl for 5 minutes, specially if 1 of em is a woman. so how the hell is this “global domination” shit supposed to work? o, let me guess, DEATH SQUADS…ya right…what you smokin, son? i done some drugs in my time but i never went so far off into the crazy patch as u nutbags do with your conspiracy crap. so do us all a favor and just fuck off. srsly. fuck off, and i do meant that from the bottom of my heart. i hope u’re not having kids and passing on your paranoid bullshit to another generation…christ, we’re fucked if these conspiratards start breeding. where’s margaret sanger when u really need her? we should sterilize anyone who believes in conspiratard nutbag bullshit…now there’s some eugenics for u!

      • alex says :

        “Wrong again, you make the claims they do wrong, as I said already you have yet to prove they do wrong yourself, the claim is made by you, therefore you are responsible for providing the evidence first.
        Go and get a specific wrong doing that they have made regarding something in this world, just throwing out the word eugenics and then crying foul play is not good enough. Try harder or continue to be a failure.”
        I wasn’t talking about eugenics concerning the foundation the reece committee was talking about. I was talking about starting wars for the sole purpose of controlling people.

        “I don’t have to worry about that because it was in the past when people were extremely racist, as we all know now, apart from you it seems, racism is born out of oignorance and the civil rights movement put racism like that in its place once and for all. You do live in the 21st century like the rest of us don’t you ?”

        Oh wow. I didn’t know that we don’t live with racism anymore. how shocking. You must be living on a different planet than I.

        “Actually if anything I would argue they are dead now, unless you know of some hidden technology that keeps people who were adults in 1900′s alive 113 years later ?
        Your argument is laughable, I only need to point out that it’s over a century later to prove everything you say is out of context with the modern society we live in, and the beliefs and people you are pissing your pants about are long dead.”
        I’m talking about the institution you blockhead. The institution can still have the same funciton without the same people.

        The fact that you say those things happened 50 years ago and doesn’t matter proves to every rational person that you have no idea what youre talking about.

        “Next you will be telling us that because US presidents used to belive in slavery, that every president since the abolution of slavery has only been in office because of their love for black women slaves.”
        This is a completely backwards argument. Youre mixing up cause and effect.

      • alex says :

        ” nobody can keep a secret for 300 years. u can’t keep a secret between 2 ppl for 5 minutes, specially if 1 of em is a woman. so how the hell is this “global domination” shit supposed to work”

        Hahahaha. you make such great arguments “rational person”. You use that as evidence that nobody can keep secrets. Might as well declassify all the top secret information the CIA has cuz I’m sure nobody there can keep secrets either.

      • anticultist says :

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “I wasn’t talking about eugenics concerning the foundation the reece committee was talking about. I was talking about starting wars for the sole purpose of controlling people.”
        ——————————————————————————————————–
        Once again prove it you lunatic, the burden of proof lies with you.

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “Oh wow. I didn’t know that we don’t live with racism anymore. how shocking. You must be living on a different planet than I.”
        ——————————————————————————————————–

        Not the kind of racism you are implying. Civil rights have changed that, either you concede that point or you don’t I couldn’t care less.

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “I’m talking about the institution you blockhead. The institution can still have the same funciton without the same people.”
        ——————————————————————————————————–

        Prove it then, making the claim that planned parenthood is a racist scheme to manipulate and start wars is quite the fucking claim. Let’s see your evidence big balls.

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “The fact that you say those things happened 50 years ago and doesn’t matter proves to every rational person that you have no idea what youre talking about.”
        ——————————————————————————————————–

        If you want to delude yourself be my guest, mean while here in the real world you just look like dummy

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “This is a completely backwards argument. Youre mixing up cause and effect.”
        ——————————————————————————————————–

        Oh you think you understand the hegelian dialectic as well ?
        Gogle search to the rescue.

      • alex says :

        You base every single one of your assumptions on the the faith of the government. When they say one thing but do another you implicitly assume its for our own good. And you want the “conspiracy theorists” to prove otherwise.
        United states goes into the middle east and kills hundreds of thousands of innocent people and conspiracy theorists dont believe the government, but then you believe all their lies saying “ohh there must be an explanation”

        What about the fact that 2 years ago our own government was caught sending guns into mexico and receiving drugs into the united states? Youre gonna believe that theyre doing it to stop the war on drugs? please….

        Just how well is the war on drugs going on? How bout the fact that while the government is sending people to jail for posession of marijuana, the government is shipping plane loads of marijuana from south america?

        I bet you want me to prove the harms of the drug war too case youre too lazy to find out for yourself. Just like the fact you keep on telling me to give you facts about the evils that these institutions have CAUSED not DIRECTLY because youre too ignorant to find out for yourself.

        Just like the fact you don’t see what kind of harm this kind of thinking leads to. Such as the killing of thousands of innocents in the middle east.

      • alex says :

        But you dont really care do you. Cuz you sit up on your high horse thinking that there’s nothing too bad with our government cause you sit in your cozy house all comfortable while our government is in other countries bribing officials with prostitutes and participating in child trafficking. Look it up. Few years ago secret service were caught doing that.
        Not to mention, 40 years ago, white house officials were caught trafficking little boys from boys town nebraska. This was reported by the washington post. But this was 40 years ago. It obviously doesnt apply to us right? I’m sure all our politicians are angels now and would never do that kind of thing.

      • anticultist says :

        Alex everything you just said was pure convoluted bullshit, and filled with absolute assumptions about people on the internet you don’t even know.

        To be quite honest you come across as a seriously disturbed individual with beliefs in some fucked up shit. The kind of person who would ruin a gathering of people with insane beliefs and claims.

        Your beliefs and behaviour are the kind that cause people to go out on random killing sprees, and they are the sort that twist young peoples minds into skewed unoriginal thinking that is not only circular in reasoning, but also dangerous to the well being of the person holding the beliefs.

        quite honestly you come across like a fanatical or a fundamentalist.

      • a rational person says :

        yea alex, that’s why i don’t believe in lizard people or the illuminati…because i love my whores and child trafficking!

        child trafficking is my day job! i love it…great earnings potential in this business…almost as good as amway, and it pays even more than spreading disinformation on the internet! i’m looking for franchising opportunities…wanna join up?

      • alex says :

        I’m done arguing with a guy who’s dumber than he thinks.
        Basically all your arguments are “It happened 50 years ago. Prove its still the same”
        I’m not gonna spend the time to do that with you since you are obviously sooo much smarter than me. Youre a nutbag to assume things are different just cuz some time has passed.

        “I don’t ned to, the very fact we live a society that is built upon hman rights and social justice for all, shows your argument to be childish and my rebuttal being self evident. However, if that is not enough, once again, you are the one making the claims so the burden of proof is on you not me. You ought to try and understand how debate functions before getting involved in it.
        I can happily ignore everything you say until you back up your claims, which I and all rational thinking people will likely do.”

        haha or really? I think many people who have personally experienced the injustice of the government would disagree with you. Second, wasn’t our society built on human rights 100 years ago?

      • anticultist says :

        Alex you lost this debate after my first post asked you to provide evidence for your claims, the mere fact you have failed to even notice that since then your posts are just the rants of a social pariah is quite saddening.

        Probably good job you go now because each post you make here is just a further damning of your stupidity for future generations of internet users to view.

        Trust me, years later when you grow out of this shit you will look back on this as a dark patch in your life when you were just a stupid boy who believed anything.

      • alex says :

        And you come off as a delusional hypocrite :)

      • Beenie says :

        Obviously, no amount of reasonable thought will sway you from dehumanising people who are inclined to believe in conspiracy theories – it’s down to personal flaws, not the disgusting shit going on, daily.

        Seriously mate, what the fuck are you about, just hating conspiracy theorists?

        I’ll keep pointing out that the government are criminals, and if that points towards an unprovable conspiracy then so be it – not that I’m convinced of any NWO, I just can’t be arsed with being oppressed by criminals, it winds me up. It also baffles belief that people like you, who deem this stuff as totally false, fight so hard and verbally abuse people, based on your assumptions and the UNPROVEN words on human behaviour and the human mind. It beggars belief. You’re bridging massive gaps down to your own opinions, conspiracy theorists are dangerous, take drugs and are in unstable employment.

        The massive contradiction there is that, like the aforementioned ‘NWO proof’, just indicates things so far. You, and sociologist in question are bridging the gaps.

        You obviously don’t care about using your mind to help make the world a better place, you’d rather use it to big up your own ego, by putting people down through your information and specific, ultimate truth.

        Of course there are ultimate truths in this reality, but it doesn’t mean this reality is the ultimate truth. This is the reason that lizard people could exist, although I’m inclined to think that is not true.

        At least my ego isn’t so big that I need to place my life’s foundations on so called ‘ultimate’ truths.

        And just to be clear, sociology provides no ultimate truths. If science can explain these theories, then I’m all ears, but I would still have the fact in the back of my mind that science is also based on limited human logic.

        I just want it so criminals aren’t in power, and that people aren’t bending over, passively or aggressively for them. I think you seem to be part of the latter group.

        Ps. Im definitely on the fence regarding a lot of these conspiracy theories to some degree or another. Unlike you, my own opinions just make me more or less inclined to believe them. But since you have the ultimate truth, you must be the second coming. All hail the messiah, who is the only being on earth whose opinions are 100% correct, his truth shall be set in stone.

      • anticultist says :

        Cool story bro. Jog on.

      • Beenie says :

        Is this hurting you, are you being ripped from your tangible reality, like a baby from the womb?

      • Beenie says :

        I’ve been swayed by the opinions posed by some debunking commentators. I have to say, I respect any argument founded in rationality, that uses available information in an original and insightful manner, and whose main goal is to reach truthful information – for this reason, although I feel the original intentions of this website were somewhat in vain and mildly egotistical, I respect what this website has generated: a desire for the truth, and that’s surely something many conspiracy theorists should be able to admire and join in with.

        To be fair, I do see now that conspiracy theorists often tie things together and fill the gaps – from which there must be a desire for the information they are posing to be correct.

        What I don’t respect, is the rude comments and the generalisation of conspiracy theorists. This is most definitely a foul form of prejudice, one that conspiracy theorists are often accused of themselves.

        Whilst I respect the levels of research, intelligence and (what I hope is) freethinking put into this website, comments and related debunking websites, I can’t help but notice a few things.

        One is that you pose the illuminati as imaginary. I’d say that basing something being imaginary due to lack of solid evidence does not hold water. It could be false beyond reasonable doubt, but I believe it is short sighted to say something doesn’t exist because no solid evidence is widely available.

        For this reason I can’t let my ego get involved and just rule something out. Combining this with the questionable nature of government and corporate officials and affiliates, of a lot of official information, of the state of the mainstream, the state of the media and even of reality itself, I cannot rule something out of all existence just because it hasnt been outright proven to exist. And I can’t abuse people for their beliefs that in many cases are founded on justified disgust of our system and levels of paranoia caused be the few blatant lies that have become widely known. There is a wealth of disinformation out there, fighting the government and the mainstream media for the truth is hard enough. We all need to strive for truthful information, from all angles.

      • a rational person says :

        @ beenie : sorry hoss, the illuminati is imaginary. ya, we really can say that…i understand why u don’t want to cross that line, but the simple truth is, if you sit there with your dick in the wind hoping against hope that some evidence will come along to make it rational to believe that the illuminati might exist, u’re not only an idiot, u wind up with a chapped dick. sorry hoss, them’s the facts.

        still, at least u’re not calling the debunkers “paid disinformation agents”…which is more than i can say for most of the nutbags who come here and start oozing diarrhea of the keyboard as soon as anyone questons their conspiracy bullshit…so i gotta hand it to u beenie, u got more brains screwed on your shoulders than most of the pathetic vermin nutbags who show up on this site…i think u’re wrong as hell about the illuminati bullcrap, but i’d have a drink with ya

      • Beenie says :

        - a rational person

        I think that your lot are the ones willing something to be true. Really, when you get down to it, a small group of rich people will be influencing things, probably loads of small groups all over the place – it’s called Capitalism. This is why, just associating the NWO with a single group, controlling the world is small minded, because in my mind, it’s just an exaggerated form of what’s going on anyway. I’m sick and tired corporations being protected from the people, it should be the other way around.

        For instance, I’ve had bailiffs come to my house for debts on business rates. The rates for small businesses in the UK are extortionate, and they slap licenses on everything, making it hard to he independent. The bailiff broke the law and harnesses my family, stopping my mum from leaving in her car, when the debt wasn’t even hers, it was on another family members name, someone who hasn’t lived at my address for years. The bailiff was threatening and broke the law on several counts, and when we phoned their company, they kept hanging up when we were telling them they were breaking the law. In other words, even on a small level the UK government deals with criminals everyday, to enforce unfair amounts of money on poor people through the use of a criminal organisation. This is just a small piece of the oppression.

        Then I watch factual documentaries, not conspiracies! … For instance , I watched one last night about how many times America has intervened with democratic governments in Latin America. Every time they did that, they endorsed a new, Fascist leader who went and murdered and tortured many. Then the documentary exposes the blatant lies from the American government and the disinformation pedalled by the media.

        I’m not surprised people jump up and think there’s some sort of super Fascism goin on – we go down to the low levels and there’s corruption, we go up to the top and it’s even worse and is actually vile.

        Anyway, I’d rather spread the information about that kind of stuff. If the poorest people of Latin America can stand up and change things, then surely the people of the UK and US can say enough of the corruption, let’s remodel, let’s have a real democracy and leave other democracies alone, let’s base our world on the people’s needs and not the desires of the wealthy.

        This is why I get riled up by continuous ignorance towards problems, and I do feel like your trolling or whatever, is part of just ignoring real problems. Or am I wrong? Do you really care about these problems but you think conspiracy theorists take the weight out of them?

      • Beenie says :

        http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-war-on-democracy/

        if you can find a watchable link, I strongly recommend this documentary.

        No unproven conspiracy

        No NWO

        No Lizard people

        Just cold, hard corruption

      • a rational person says :

        @ beenie

        explain to me again what conspiracy theories have to do with solving real problems in the world? that’s the part i don’t get…

      • Beenie says :

        Yeah, somehow I think that some conspiracy theories may be pretty rational.

        Even the NWO conspiracy could be founded on rational fears of centralisation/ globalisation.

        Also, whilst I agree that there’s no solid proof of the illuminati, I still see things that make me question why their supposed symbolism is all over the place, like the capstone floodlights on the Olympic stadium in London, illuminating the ground. This doesn’t confirm anything, but is enough to make me wonder. One small example, of which there is many.

      • anticultist says :

        “I still see things that make me question why their supposed symbolism is all over the place”
        ———————————————————————————————

        Regarding that symbol.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_seeing_eye

        “It is sometimes interpreted as representing the eye of God watching over humankind (or divine providence)”
        “In the modern era, the most notable depiction of the eye is the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States, which appears on the United States one-dollar bill.In 1782, the Eye of Providence was adopted as part of the symbolism on the reverse side of the Great Seal of the United States. It was first suggested as an element of the Great Seal by the first of three design committees in 1776 ”
        “Imagery of an all-seeing eye can be traced back to Egyptian mythology and the Eye of Horus. It also appears in Buddhism, where Buddha is also regularly referred to as the “Eye of the World” throughout Buddhist scriptures (e.g. Mahaparinibbana Sutta). It is also used to depict the image of God in Caodaism.
        In Medieval and Renaissance European iconography, the Eye (often with the addition of an enclosing triangle) was an explicit image of the Christian Trinity. Seventeenth-century depictions of the Eye of Providence sometimes show it surrounded by clouds or sunbursts.”
        “Today, the Eye of Providence is usually associated with Freemasonry. The Eye first appeared as part of the standard iconography of the Freemasons in 1797, with the publication of Thomas Smith Webb’s Freemasons Monitor.”
        “However, common Masonic use of the Eye dates to 14 years after the creation of the Great Seal.”

        Also here: http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/symbolism/all_seeing_eye.html

        “The symbolic usages of the eye can be divided into a number of types. First, the eye alone: this usage is the most open to a wide range of interpretations, and misinterpretations. It can be anything from representing the benevolent, omnipotent all-seeing eye of God to representing an evil malevolent being or society. It can represent security and protection when used by Pinkerton’s Detective Agency, or intrusive tyranny when used in movies to represent oppressive regimes, species or ideologies.
        The next most common representation is the eye inside a triangle. The equilateral triangle is a common symbol for Deity in any culture that has worshipped the triune nature of God. Examples can be seen in the Pfarrkirche at Grmunden am Traunsee, built in 1626, the Fisherman’s church at Traunkirchen, and the church of the monastery of St. Florian near Linz.
        The eye inside a glory, or radiating lines, more clearly defines the eye as representing the all-seeing eye of God and was a common Christian symbol in Renaissance art and early lithography.
        The hamsa, or eye in the palm of a hand, is an Arabic and Jewish apotropaic amulet for magical protection from the evil eye. The word hamsa, or hamesh, refers to the five digits on the hand. Also called the hand of Fatima, in reference to the daughter of Mohammed, or the hand of Miriam, the hamsa appears in a two-thumbed, bilaterally symmetrical form, as well as in a more natural form in which there is one thumb. Archaeological evidence suggests that the hamsa predates both Judaism and Islam. Examples can also be found in Roman art and South American hoodoo iconography. It has no masonic significance.
        The representation of an eye in or above a pyramid derives its usage from the unique representation on the reverse of the USA Great Seal, most commonly found on the American dollar bill. There is no documented illustration of an eye together with a pyramid prior to 1783. Neither the eye nor the pyramid have ever been uniquely masonic symbols, although the Grand Lodge of Italy incorporated combined the image into its seal in 1805. The combining of the eye of providence overlooking an unfinished pyramid is a uniquely American, not masonic, icon. While the all-seeing eye appears on early embroidered masonic aprons, there are no available documents showing the all-seeing eye associated with Freemasonry prior to 1797 and none at all related to the Bavarian Illuminati.”

        Regarding the Bavarian Illuminatti and the symbol:http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/illuminatitexts.html

        “Current conspiracy theorists will often claim that the reverse of the USA great seal is the symbol of the Illuminati. If they feel the need to justify the claim, they might mention a document or manuscript that was on display “until recently” in the British Museum. The British Museum has a number of items displaying an all-seeing eye, none identified with the Bavarian Illuminati.
        The single eye was a well-established artistic convention for an ‘omniscient Ubiquitous Deity’ in the medallic art of the Renaissance. For example, the frontispiece of Sir Walter Raleigh’s The History of the World (1614) showed an eye in a cloud labeled “Providentia” overlooking a globe. 1. .
        Also noteworthy is a ceiling mural from the meeting hall of the Bavarian Illuminati in Ingolstadt, Bavaria. While depicting a number of scenes from classical mythology, it has no representations of eyes or pyramids.2. .
        The following list comprises the major publications of primary source material of or about the Bavarian Illuminati. Few of them contain any illustrations or images other than a printer’s mark. None contain an image of an eye and pyramid.”

      • Wyboth says :

        Well, the thing is, you can’t just see one symbol in a few places and then conclude that the NWO exist. I mean, if some product has a person’s face with one eye showing, does that mean it’s the NWO’s? No, it doesn’t. Imagine if someone just took the picture that way, not intending any similarity with the NWO? Some people would still accuse them of being affiliated. Now, as I see it, every picture with one eye showing is a coincidence, because I believe that the NWO does not exist. While I’m on the subject, you guys weren’t the first to find evil from a picture with one eye showing. In the renaissance, good people were pictured with both eyes showing, but evil people had only one eye showing. I’m not sure if conspiracy theorists finding fault in pictures with one eye is a coincidence or not, but you aren’t the first to do it.

      • Beenie says :

        Illuminutty- yes. A small group of wealthy psychopaths in cohorts with the governments of powerful countries. This is where the debunking turns into denial of the truth for me, it’s all quite blatantly going on, just in a different way than most conspiracy theorists say. Anyway I think I’ve proved my point.

      • Wyboth says :

        Beenie, you’re doing something called hit-and-run trolling. Basically, whenever a hit-and-run troll sees that they’re losing an argument, they curse the other person and leave. What I got from your comment was “It’s real! Piss off!” First you state your opinion again, which is the “It’s real” part. Then you say “I’ve already proven my point.” This is the running away part. Let me tell you that you have not proven your belief, because we still do not believe it. Secondly, the “I’m wasting my time” argument is the oldest trick in the book to get out of a losing argument. You realize that you have lost, but instead of conceding to defeat, you run away like a coward. This is the way of the hit-and-run troll, and I believe that you are one.

      • Beenie says :

        Repeating myself on the fact that you tried to justify murder and torture – fucking crank.

        Fucking + crank = Frank.

        So Frank, done much murdering and torturing today? What psychological state are you under when you justify that, Frank?

      • anticultist says :

        You said you were gonna go twice, but you are still here making an utter fol of yourself, trust me this isn’t going well for you here. If I were you I would quit posting your stupid on here, you just look like a spastic right now.

      • Beenie says :

        Fuck you, Frank. You’ve already revealed what you think and it’s the thoughts of a worthless prick, who empowers criminals through the ignorance that your ‘has to be right’ attitude has generated.

        You’re a wanker, and the world needs rid of you

      • Beenie says :

        Just had a read through this again; I was expressing my point incorrectly.

        I don’t believe in the NWO. What I believe is that government and big business are hand in hand, and that is true.

        Did anyone even watch that John Pilger documentary? He reveals how the US government (and UK govt to an extent) have taken (or tried to take) elected leaders out of power in South America and replace them with leaders who see eye to eye with America’s business ideals. The trouble with these moves is 1- they are against the democratic foundation of our society, and 2- they have often resulted in the death/torture of thousands. Pinochet’s government is a prime example of this. The most recent example is America helping Fascist groups to throw Hugo Chavez out of office. Trouble is he was elected and was helping the poorest people out of the shit, so they had a say in grass roots democracy and could have the rights to the slums.

        Because in Colin Powell’s words, Hugo Chavez did not have ‘the interests of the United States at heart’ (and why would he, he was the leader of Venezuela, not the US), America saw fit to dismantle another country’s democracy. This has happened in South America over and over, and the leaders were always in favour of helping the poor (some of the poorest people on earth – disgustingly poor, living in squalor) and they won’t bend over for the US business interests. So America sees fit to dismantle democracy and help Fascists into power who in many cases have the murdered and tortured these poor people – all in the name of business interests.

        Here is where I am saying I can understand why Conspiracy theorists bridge the gaps; there is fascism and evil associated with big business and the government. Not just that, but there seems to be an agenda against the poorest people on earth coming from the nations (US & UK) that encourage their working class people to be docile and ignorant through consumerism and the media. Proof of ignorance? How many Americans know about what I have just told you? Are they educated in it, does the media talk often and freely about it? Precisely the opposite; the same documentary also proves how the US aired cut footage about Chavez supporters killing anti Chavez demonstrators. Worst of all was it was eventually revealed that the Fascist groups the US govt supported financially preplanned the murders and framed Chavez’s supporters/affiliates as a means to get him out of power. This was no accident and has happened many times before. The media spouts a plethora of lies on a regular basis – often for evil, as it was in that example.

        So really I am not surprised some people bridge gaps through severe paranoia. The insanity of what is going on breeds paranoia.

        But, do you lot really care ? It goes back to my original argument; this how site is a fucking dick waving competition and I don’t really think anyone gives a fuck about the real issues. I hope somebody does. I would assume some conspiracy theorists give a fuck about he bad shit going on, but they annoyingly and religiously believe in bullshit that stops the real issues being treated.

        The information I have just shared certainly leads me to think that big business and government are in cohorts. So hold on – isn’t that a more real example of what the illuminati is? Wealthy powerful people working together in their own interests. It is. They are also working in extremely evil ways, hence the murder and for torture as a result of their actions. This is where the bridges get made to the illuminati, but in effect it is the same thing. In practise it isn’t, because it doesn’t seem cults or a true NWO agenda comes into it – that’s where the gaps are imaginatively bridged.

        The bottom line is that US and UK governments value business interests over human life. I believe conspiracies to be born out of this fact, not pure insanity. The question is, do you care more about humiliating people for their beliefs and patting yourselves on the back for it, or about the real issues?

      • Beenie says :

        Forgive the mistakes, I’m sure you can make sense of my comment.

        Remember that the information I provided is proven to be true. If you don’t believe me, watch the war on democracy documentary by John Pilger.

    • Beenie says :

      Who really gives a fuck if the NWO/illuminati doesn’t exist?!

      The basic fact is the world is there’s ongoing problems that have solid answers, and you would rather deny the existence on a group – does it stop the world going down the shitter?

      Some people who believe in the NWO may not be as paranoid as you say, but are concerned at the levels of corruption, poverty, death, suffering and control that seem to be caused, not only by either corrupt, incompetent or puppet governments, but also by the apathetic majority.

      Seriously, you’d rather argue about whether the NWO exists than actually think about why people are inclined to believe conspiracy theories.

      I’ll use this analogy – it’s like sitting in a car, hurtling for a wall, and everybody is arguing about where they are going to sit.

      Prove all the conspiracy theories wrong that you can, but does that mean that people aren’t still starving to death and dying of diseases that can be prevented? Does it mean that we can live solely under common law and common sense (cause no harm or loss – not being criminalised for offences that cause no harm). Does it mean that pharmaceutical companies only want to best for us, and we can trust our health on them and only use medicines that they endorce? Does it mean that governments aren’t extorting the lower classes and using criminal bailiff companies as their hired goons? Are governments not committing acts of terrorism? Are companies not poisoning us through poor quality food and packaging. Are there not vast amount of chemicals increasing the amount of chronic and fatal disease? Do you politicians really care about the people? And importantly, why are we still using fossil fuels when we’re supposedly going to destroy our own race through pollution? Same for radiation.

      This leads on to the question : why have they hidden the history of hemp, that can be used for fabric, paper, plastic, GOOD food, medicine m and fuel for cars, and to create electricity. It matures much quicker than trees (four months), and yet catches more Co2 per acre. It could help save the world and get us out of our problems, the american economy used to be based on hemp! It could now feed, clothe and fuel the poorest of the world, as well as replacing the need for cutting down trees and using fossil fuels.

      So all this really points to is, in your aggressive ignorance, have you thought about any of this, or is everything fine and dandy, because in your mind there’s no world order. What are you doing to try and improve the world? At leafy conspiracy theorists recognise the world’s problems in an aim to improve them.

      • a rational person says :

        hemp? HEMP? that’s what going to “save the world”? HEMP? you’re kidding right?

        HAHAHA HAAHH H AAHHA AAAHHA AHAHA AHAHA HA HA HAHAHAHAH A HAHAH AHA HAHHA AHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HA HAHAHAH HAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHHAAHAHAHH AHAHAHAHH AHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!

        thanks for the laugh, hoss! it cleared up that blockage in my intestine that i got from reading alex’s shit!

        what we really need to save the world from is loons like you. now how we gonna do that, eh?

      • anticultist says :

        ——————————————————————————————
        “Seriously, you’d rather argue about whether the NWO exists than actually think about why people are inclined to believe conspiracy theories.”
        —————————————————————————————-

        There are very easy answers combined to explain this: lack of critical thinking skills, mental health, poor education, drug use, social paranoia, misinterpretation of data and evidence,

        In fact as explained by Goertzel (1994) identified three traits as being correlated with a belief in conspiracy theories:

        1: anomia, the respondent stated a belief that he/she felt alienated or disaffection relative to “the system;”
        2: a tendency to distrust other people; and
        3: a feeling of insecurity regarding continued employment.

        The above 3 social status and conditional values are attributable to how much a person believes in conspiracy theories, combine these 3 with the list above it and you end up with various delusional states of mind.

        ——————————————————————————————
        “So all this really points to is, in your aggressive ignorance, have you thought about any of this, or is everything fine and dandy, because in your mind there’s no world order. What are you doing to try and improve the world? At leafy conspiracy theorists recognise the world’s problems in an aim to improve them.”
        ——————————————————————————————-

        Actually all you have really done is point to more conspiracy theories to back up belief in conspiracy theories,. LOL, that’s like pointing at the bible to prove the bibles claims.

        Anyway conspiracy theorists only promote paranoia, delusions, and fear in false belief. They no more fix the world than your blog comment does. If conspiracy theorists fixed the world like you say then how come the groups they are members of only talk stupid shit on the internet and are the laughing stock of all reputable social action groups who actually do change real world social policies ?

      • Beenie says :

        Oooh ego hit, he thinks I’m not intelligent.

        I’m done here. No one is going to win, but I do see multiple losers.

        In this confusing world, I battle through with my own sense of some kind of ‘truth’, but I question it and help others question theirs.

        I think you’re an insulting loon, I don’t think I’ve been unreasonable really. Don’t think we should have criminals in charge, but that makes me a loon.

        This is just totally separate from any conspiracy theory, and even by any clinical, social or dictionary definition, does not make me insane.

        Otherwise, you two look like pathetic keyboard warriors. Even if you are intelligent, you’re wasting it – fucking badly. And I’m wasting my time too. Why, I don’t know. Now I promise, no more comments from me. I don’t expect anything from you, you mustn’t expect much from yourself either.

        I just remember everything I’ve learnt over my journey, and your reality doesn’t seem to fit with mine. You lack basic manners and the ability to question your own information.

        If you have an answer for everything – you’re probably wrong. Worse still, you’re pathetically clinging to a truth that isn’t tangible, and even worse than that, you’re fighting other oligarchical truths with it. How bloody pointless.

      • anticultist says :

        “In this confusing world, I battle through with my own sense of some kind of ‘truth’,”

        Yeah this called post modernism or relativism and it’s a failed philosophical state of mind.

      • Beenie says :

        I know it’s called post modernism. But labelling it doesn’t make you or me intelligent, and you saying it’s a failed way of thinking is a load of bullshit.

        You’re as bad as any conspiracy theorist because you believe whole heartedly in your truth, it’s going to seem like it’s the correct path to you though isn’t it? It’s what you believe to be true, I suppose it’s a self imposed cycle, a pretty common one at that, surely a man of your intelligence will have questioned this already though, and already had his answer. ‘Noo, of course I’m right, because this is based on facts, explanations, ‘debunks’ – definitive untruths.

        Do you view yourself as some kind of scientist/ sociologist? I think I’ve hit the nail on the head there. Some daft theorist saying ‘conspiracy theorists generally comply to these standards’ – how vague.

        Your previous reasons made me laugh – talking about correlations between drug use and conspiracy theorists. All I can say is, oh dear. Now, there’s two possibilities here, you either read the news papers too much, or have drawn your own conclusions from his findings.

        Where is his why? Do you know why some people who take drugs (illegal? Pharmaceutical?) are more likely to believe in this brand of conspiracy theory? Probably not, because you seem to have some sort of skewed reality – all these factors are really doing is allowing you to alienate yourself from conspiracy theorists – they are your sheeple.

        So, like the reeking, sweaty onion you are, we’ve peeled back your layers of self imposed, deluded thought, and at the middle of it is an entwined contradiction of intelligence and ignorance.

        And finally, to trump you, wildly, you have provided no proof of anything, like the people you criticise. Recognition and stubborn defence doesn’t make it so that isn’t true – you talk of conspiracy theorists conforming to similar attributes, but you give no reason as to why, which is the most important part. You said that these factors lead to delusional mindsets, but failed to link the factors to their corresponding effects.

      • anticultist says :

        “I know it’s called post modernism. But labelling it doesn’t make you or me intelligent, and you saying it’s a failed way of thinking is a load of bullshit.”

        Oh really I guess you haven’t studied logic or critical thinking at basic level ?

        Let us look at it.

        If the New Agers are right, no one should worry about such things,
        for if everyone manufactures their own truth, no one could ever be
        in error. Therefore my claims and your claims are both correct, which means that my claims that you are completely wrong are correct according to relativism. So If your claim is right is true, and my claim you are wrong is true, then the logical conclusion is that relativism is untrue because we both can not be right on this topic, therefore one of us has to be right, which negates relativism completely.

        Relativism is self negating belief system, and that is why it is a failed philosophical belief. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about admit it.

      • anticultist says :

        —————————————————————————————–
        “Some daft theorist saying ‘conspiracy theorists generally comply to these standards’ – how vague.

        Your previous reasons made me laugh – talking about correlations between drug use and conspiracy theorists. All I can say is, oh dear. Now, there’s two possibilities here, you either read the news papers too much, or have drawn your own conclusions from his findings.”
        ——————————————————————————————-
        You further expose your ignorance to scientific understandings, being that those standards and points I made come from psychology papers and books that are peer reviewed and correlated through multiple separate studies by academics and scholars. These people being Chris French, Ted Goertzel for starters, who are currently considered some of the world foremost experts in the psychology of belief systems, conspiracy theories and various other interesting subjects.

        I pity that you seek to reduce academic literature to mere tabloid information in order to pretend the tables are even on the matter.

      • Beenie says :

        Seriously, this is getting boring now.

        I know exactly what you are talking about, but you’ve made the mistake in presuming that I prescribe to a view that you understand as post modernism, just because one thing I said complied with the theory.

        I don’t know how I could have no clue what I’m talking about, because really, it’s very, very simple. People are full of their opinions. It’s as simple as that, you’re just hellbent on thinking you’re right, and no matter how much you think you’re right, it doesn’t make it so.

        It doesn’t necessarily have to be some kind of eastern philosophy to think about the fact that there’s so much information out there that leads you one way or another, depending on your inclination.

        It’s about as compex as that, and unless you deeply understand the human mind (I’m certain you, or no other human being does, or ever has supplied us with anything other than an insight), as well as scientific theory and praxis, as well as having fully understoof and witnessed exactly why this all explains the facts that make you right and me wrong, then you cannot be do certain.

        See you, you’re trying to come from the higher angle, and unless you understand nearly everything, then you cannot back that up, ever. If your goal is to explain the reasons, facts/trends (+ why) behind conspiracy theories, then you’ve failed, because I’d say your intellect won’t go that far, probably because noone has that level of intelligence.

        Me , I’m coming from the angle that no one really knows much, and simply, that we should right the wrongs in the world. If you adamantly believe conspiracy theorists are that bad, and that unstable employment can cause these damgerous beliefs, then why aren’t you trying to help make the world have a more stable future, eg – through the stuff I was talking about before, replacing fossil fuels, and hemp IS a viable alternative, Henry Ford ran and made the pannels for his first car from hemp. But I suppose that’s loon talk.

      • anticultist says :

        You are just full of shit Beanie and want to make it so that stupid people like you are equal to intellectual people like academic experts.

        The fact remains we can know absolute truths, we can explain complex subjects, we can and do every day, and we improve our knowledge and get better.

        Just because you are too fucking stupid to understand doesn’t mean other people aren’t clever enough to understand. That is the problem with people like you, you assume that everyone is equal, or at least that you are somehow equal to them. The truth of the matter is there are people who know and understand so much more than you, and you are just unable to believe this is so.

        Your reduction of expertise to triviality is insincere and childish, and I do absolutely consider you to be a detriment to yourself if you can’t even figure out what is good knowledge and what is bad.

        ————————————————————————————————-
        “If you adamantly believe conspiracy theorists are that bad, and that unstable employment can cause these damgerous beliefs, then why aren’t you trying to help make the world have a more stable future, eg – through the stuff I was talking about before, replacing fossil fuels, and hemp IS a viable alternative, Henry Ford ran and made the pannels for his first car from hemp. But I suppose that’s loon talk.”
        —————————————————————————————————

        How do you know I don’t do god in this world ? You don’t, and I would neither discuss what I do with someone like you either.

        Plus what I see as beneficial changes in the world are not what you do that much is clear. Perhaps some of my goals would lie in line with yours, but on the whole I see you as a flake, and more dangerous toy yourself than you know.

      • Beenie says :

        Is your skin melting? Has your penis inverted now that your reality has been debunked?

      • sam says :

        In regards to facts. I believe there are already enough in the rest of the posts. This place isn’t a good place to argue facts. It’s too much material. When I’m talking about CIA false flags, I’m assuming you at least have prelimanary knowledge on the matter, and that I don’t have to provide a list of examples. Second, I was not only talking about 9/11. I was also talking about false flags in general. You didn’t address the fact the CIA has a vast history of false flags, which we know about through declassified documents. Sometimes events may have the telltale signs of a false flag but there is no document to PROVE it because CLASSIFIED documents don’t get spread around that easily. You could very likely be one of those people who say that a false flag wasn’t a false flag just because the people who committed it didn’t admit to it or that there wasn’t any public document to show. The perpetrators arent going to wave a false flag classified document in our faces.

      • anticultist says :

        sam you are just a crank, no one here will take you seriously because what you are expressing is paranoia. You don’t have to go any further most of us here are familiar with the conspiracy theories and the kind of people who believe them ,like you.

        There is nothing unique or new you can bring here that we haven’t encountered before, you are just another cookie cutter crank.

      • sam says :

        Oh really? Mr smart blogger here thinks that facts are now considered conspiracy theories haha. You have no idea how corrupt our government is. You have no idea how hypocritical they are. You are a dumb sheep. Do you know ANYONE with first hand experience of government drug trafficking? YOU DONT! I DO! You think youre so smart. Youre calling government traffficking a conspiracy? lol. you make me laugh. You know that the CIA Saddam the weapons that he used to kill hundreds of thousands of iranians with? AND YOURE CALLING THIS A CONSPIRACY THEORY? Youre an idiot. The problem with you is that you think youre too smart for all this. And thus look down on these facts and call us quacks.
        I guarantee you. Any CIA or FBI officer who has had to deal with international gangs or drug trafficking would tell you your wrong. If you want, I can give you the name of a certain person you can email. He has been on documentaries and is a professor at a university. He is also a former officer.

        DO ACTUAL RESEARCH before you start babbling nonsense. Although some of us here can’t argue as well as you, you have no idea how ridiculous you sound cause you have ABSOLUTELY no FIRST HAND OR SECOND HAND knowledge of these things. Cuz if you did, you would not be saying these things. DONT GIVE ME SOME BS about how police arrest marijuana users and therefore my argument is bs. Theyre hypocrites. AND YOU ARE AN IDIOT FOR CALLING US QUACKS WHEN WE TELL YOU FACTUALY STATEMENTS LIKE GOVERNMENT DRUG TRAFFICKING. EVEN CHILD TRAFFICKING. BUT THATS TOO MUCH FOR YOUR SMARTY PANTS BRAIN TO HANDLE NOW ISNT IT.

      • a rational person says :

        @ sam : u’re a fucking nutbag. there’s nothing else to say. u believe that 911 was an inside job. that makes u a nutbag. u believe in lizard people. that makes u a nutbag. u think thrive is awesome. that makes u a nutbag. you got scrambled eggs for brains, hoss, if you eat up this stupid shit that conspiracy people are selling you…and u sit here quacking about “drug trafficing”…WHO THE FUCK EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT DRUG TRAFFICING? fucking ridiculous…oh, let me guess, because the government did some bad thing that’s “PROOF” that they did 911 or faked the moon landings…i cant believe i’m reading this shit

        sam : crazy
        sam: nutbag
        sam: insane
        sam: loony
        sam: nuts
        sam : whacked
        sam: fucked in the head
        sam: round the bend
        sam: idiot
        sam: moron
        sam: loser
        sam: pathetic basement dweller

        why do you believe in lizard people? u really think that shit is real, don’t you? why do you believe 911 was an inside job or the illuminati exists? because u probably got a lobotomy at birth, thats why…u nutbags make me sick…u gonna go rant about how obama faked his birth certificate now? or how the rothschilds built their secret moon base? go ahead, u tinfoil hat nutbag…go right ahead spreading your stupid shit, see how seriously the world takes you. i need a drink

      • sam says :

        @rational.
        blah blah blah blah LIZARD PEOPLE blah blah blah
        haha

      • sam says :

        @raitonal
        Hey idiot. guess what. Ive told you 3 times already I dont believe in lizard people!!! And I dont care about some rothschild moonbase or whatever you idiot.

      • a rational person says :

        but the shit u (sam) believe in just as nutty as lizard people.

        foster gamble believes in lizard people and here u are saying thrive is the bees knees…u also believe that 911 was an inside job, that’s definately nutty…what’s the difference?

        u believe shit because u want to believe it, not because theres any evidence. so i don’t see any diff btwn u beliving in lizard people and believing 911 was an inside job. THEYRE BOTH TOTALLY FUCKING RETARDED. whats the difference?

        u believe in lizard people! admit it!

      • anticultist says :

        Actually sam I am just calling you a crank, from your posts it is self evident, people don’t need me to point that out though, I was just stepping up to get the job done.

        I feel sorry for you man, you must live in a grim frame of mind.

      • sam says :

        “Actually sam I am just calling you a crank, from your posts it is self evident, people don’t need me to point that out though, I was just stepping up to get the job done.

        I feel sorry for you man, you must live in a grim frame of mind.”

        What job? Calling me out on some facts I pointed out? I’ll take being called a crank compared to being a narcissist who can’t even get his facts straight. You still haven’t given any argument on government drug trafficking, or trafficking of children for that matter. But then again, you probably don’t feel the need to.

        According to you, Im a crank cuz I distrust our governments official story on things like 9/11. Wow, I wonder why that is. They’re putting people in jail for weed and here they are shipping across the border. NO WONDER I DONT TRUST THEM.

        Now theyre trying to get rid of or severely curb the use of guns cuz of all the recent shootings. IF ITS SO BAD THEN WHY WERE THEY SHIPPING GUNS TO DRUG CARTELS FOR DRUGS?!!!!!

        And I’m a crank for thinkign our government is full of bs.

      • sam says :

        Anticultist, you said I havent presented a shred of evidence. Why should I? You say I should present evidence as if you are presuming the government innocent and therefore you don’t need to do any of the fact searching.

        You have a brain dont you? Our government has cause over a million planned deaths because they cause artificial civil unrests in other countries to put people in power that aren’t rebellious against the United States.

        Presenting you with facts isn’t gonna do anything. You give the most terrible arguments when facts are presented to you. And you can’t even give me an argument on government drug trafficking. What are you gonna say? Are you gonna say that since The last reported case was two years ago, it doesn’t apply to us? Or are you gonna tell me that the government is doing it so they can catch those nasty murderous cartels.
        Hey, in the mean time, go tell those 100,000+ INNOCENT IRAQIS that this war on terror is fair game since some other scumbag decided to kill a couple thousand people in the united States on 9/11.
        And go tell those fatherless children and the parents who watched their children get bombed that they were just collateral damage. Tell them in your arrogance, that you had to make sure all those BAD GUYS were dead you arrogant blockhead!!!!!

      • Wyboth says :

        ______________________________________________
        They’re putting people in jail for weed and here they are shipping across the border.
        ______________________________________________

        What evidence do you have of that?

        ______________________________________________
        IF ITS SO BAD THEN WHY WERE THEY SHIPPING GUNS TO DRUG CARTELS FOR DRUGS?!!!!!
        ______________________________________________

        Ditto.

        You see, sam, we call you a crank not because you distrust the government, but because you make unsolicited claims about them. When asked for evidence, you give the stereotypical “Look around!” answer. “Why should I give you evidence?” you ask. You should give us evidence because we have no reason to believe that your claims are true without it. Have you ever heard of burden of proof? The burden of proof is on you, sam. Prove that the government is doing these things and we’ll believe it. Don’t prove it and we won’t. Simple as that. According to my current knowledge of the United States government, they do not traffic drugs across the border to drug cartels. But, if you have proof that they do, you can show me that proof and I will change my mind.

        In your response, I expect one of three things:

        1. You will not give me proof. You will settle for saying “Look around you!” once more. If you do, I will concede that you have no proof of the government trafficking drugs, since I have already stated that looking around me yields nothing.

        2. You will link me to a conspiracy theorist website making the same claims and not showing evidence either. This is unacceptable. It is unreliable and undocumented. Doing this would be the same as responding without giving any evidence at all.

        3. You show me evidence of the government trafficking drugs. Good luck with this one. According to my current knowledge of the government, they do not traffic drugs, as doing such would be illegal and impossible to hide. It would also be pointless. But, if you have evidence and it shows what you say it does, then show me.

      • anticultist says :

        You are just talking about something which does not interest me sam, nor something I even discussed or wanted to. I have no need to even enter into the discussion about dug trafficking because it has nothing to do with a new world order, false flags, or any conspiracy theory claims being made.

        It is a simple matter of corruption, and monetary greed you are discussing which is of little relevance to the debate. Do humans do illegal things to make money ? fucking hell right they do, and drug law enforcement agents or police are no different, they are human like you, and have financial and personal problems like you.

        You talk like a single episode of corruption somehow validates a world wide conspiracy. You are delusional mate if you think I have not provided rationale why your thinking is flawed, plain and simple.

      • anticultist says :

        Sam read wyboths reply above, that is all that is necessary, anything else you babble on about is just you being unreasonable and unable to provide any evidence for any claims of world wide conspiracy. You are yet another crank who wheels out claims with little to no evidence, and expects the rest of the world to agree with you just because you say so.

        News flash son, the rest of society doesn’t function in such a childish way, it demands evidence.

      • alex says :

        “What evidence do you have of that?”

        The fact that I have to give you guys more evidence of government trafficking just proves you guys don’t know nearly as much as you guys think but I will give you guys two incidents just for the sake of argument. Let me reiterate that these are KNOWN. I would not be the least bit surprised if these are just a fraction of the drug operations they carry out.

        1. Iran contra affair in 1985
        2. operation fast and furious 2010
        3. operations amadeus, pegasus, and watchtower.

        Second, you may contact professor Al Valdez if you really want someone with first hand knowledge of government drug trafficking. He was a former undercover cop.

        “You show me evidence of the government trafficking drugs. Good luck with this one. According to my current knowledge of the government, they do not traffic drugs, as doing such would be illegal and impossible to hide. It would also be pointless. But, if you have evidence and it shows what you say it does, then show me.”

        I personally dont care whether you try to argue any points to try to invalidate any of those operations i just presented. I am obviously arguing with a bunch of people who have no idea what they are talking about “I dont believe in government drug trafficking cause i never heard of them”.

        “It is a simple matter of corruption, and monetary greed you are discussing which is of little relevance to the debate. Do humans do illegal things to make money ? fucking hell right they do, and drug law enforcement agents or police are no different, they are human like you, and have financial and personal problems like you.”

        Guess what. In order to have a NWO you NEED CORRUPTION. although, you can argue that corruption does not equal NWO. But corruption is an essential first step. I am not going to give you all the events and whatnot to give you the reason why I believe in NWO. You guys are obviously FAR BEHIND ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THIS SUBJECT, WHICH IS NOT CONSPIRACY THEORY.

        My first suggestion would be for all of you guys to learn more about CENTRAL BANKING, primarily on the history of central banking. That right there is enough proof of them trying to get a NWO.

      • sam says :

        @anticultist

        You have no idea how idiotic you sound when you said were talking about the reece committee, saying that it was 100 years ago and therefore doesnt apply to us today.

        Maybe you should actually do some reading before you make other idiotic statements like that.
        http://cutdc.com/2011/11/15/reece-committee-investigation-of-tax-exempt-foundations-un-american-activities/

      • anticultist says :

        You have no idea how idiotic you look posting a blog post by some unknown internet dip shit as your evidence.

        In fact you have no idea full stop.

      • sam says :

        @wyboth

        1. iran contra drug scandal in 1985
        2. fast and furious drug operation in 2010
        3. operation amadeus, pegasus, and watchtower

        I believe those are enough examples. Keep in mind, these are KNOWN. I think it is a bit foolish of you to say that just cause we don’t know about it, the government isn’t doing it. It is also foolish to say that it would be too hard to hide something like a drug operation. It’s honestly like saying, since I cant see radio waves, they don’t exist.

        Second, I want to provide a historical example, because HISTORY DOES REPEAT ITSELF.
        The Reichstag fire. Imagine how few people would have thought it was a false flag operation. I’m sure the vast majority of people thought the people who called it a false flag were idiots. But guess what, sometimes documentation does come out till well past the event. Sometimes you just have to look at the things surrounding the event to come to your own conclusion instead of relying on government reports.

        Btw, brief synopsis of the reichstag fire. It caused the german parliament to become a communist government. Look it up.

        While youre doing that I suggest you also look up the history of central banking in Europe, and then the United States. That alone should be enough to convince you that they want a NWO or at least a one world government

      • sam says :

        @anticultist
        hahaha, the irony of your last post

        Is this better for you mr. smarty pants? Alhtough you probably wouldn’t read it. Cause doing this kind of research is below you cause what we’re talking about is pure fantasy.

        http://archive.org/details/TaxExemptFoundationsAndCollectivistTreason-OverthrowOfTheUsa

      • anticultist says :

        The irony is not lost on me kid, this is a blog after all, and it is about as serious as thrive is,. In other words about as serious as I take you.

        You are correct I am not gonna read your links, your opinion on the world means shit to me, I know it’s wrong and polluted with conspiracy and political nonsense already so I have no need to even consider what you say any longer.

        Your posts here have shown me just how bizzarro you think the world is, kind of sad for you really.

      • sam says :

        There you have it. That is exactly the reason why you will always stay ignorant to what’s really happening.

        And no, i’m not some delusional nut. The events I posted up are real. You are an arrogant narcissist who thinks he’s too smart for people like me.

        All of you keep on saying its up to the “conspiracy theorists” to prove false flags and whatnot. How bout you guys actually make an effort and tell us the last known false flag to show us that it’s not happening anymore. Give us a date for the last false flag cause from what I know, the last one wasn’t too long ago. It’s not all on us to give you the facts just cause you don’t know them. And don’t tell me to give anymore, I’ve given enough for an idiot like you

      • sam says :

        I’m done with anticultist. I want to see what wyboth has to say about the events and evidence I have posted up.

      • anticultist says :

        By seeing through you bullshit and refusing to accept it that makes me an arrogant narcissist ?
        You wouldn’t know what an arrogant narcissist looked like it seems, evidently anyone who thinks you are a douche bag and full of crap is one though.

      • Sam says :

        I’m still waiting for wyboths reply but maybe he’s busy. I wanna see what he has to say about the supposed NONEXISTENT GOVERNMENT TRAFFICKING OF DRUGS.

        Come on people. Just a few years ago, operation fast and furious was being aired on the news. I thought I was dealing with people who were just a bit more informed.

        As for anticultist, you have not done a single thing to either dipsorve mailicious intentions in hte government, which I have proved through the reece committee, or false flags for that matter. Go on calling me a crank.

        I’ve provided the evidence and you have yet to provide anything to prove this “conspiracy theorist” wrong.

        Give me the date of the last false flag mr smart guy. Cause that answer is just gonna prove my point yet again. You won’t tell me that the last false flag committed was decades ago. You won’t tell me the CIA cannot carry out a false flag. Becaseu none of it is true and it would poke holes into your comfy little mindset.

        The reece committee charged the rockefeller foundation with wanting to basically brainwash kids through the education system to make it easier to bring about NWO. YOU HAVE YET TO GIVE ANY EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE NOT STILL WORKING AGAINST THE COMMON PERSON.
        You cannot say that time has passed and therefore they are different. That is a stupid argument.

        Quote from david rockefeller in 2003
        “Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure — one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”

        AND YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CENTRAL BANKING BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY DONT KNOW THE KIND OF POWER CENTRAL BANKERS HAVE HAD IN THE PAST, ESPECIALLY IN EUROPE.

        I honestly expected someone more knowledgeable when i came on this blog, but none of you know anything, except some minor topics which were discussed, and yet you sit at youre computer calling us cranks. How ironic coming from someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

        Go back to your psychology blog, and give out your psychological diagnosis to people who actually care.

      • anticultist says :

        Sam you are just a fucking crank, there’s no way I am gonna take you serious and discuss any of your delusions. They deserve no accreditation from any sane person, and to do so would only give theme credence in your mind.

        There is nothing anyone can do to dissuade you from your delusional state of mind, this is already apparent.

        Nice caps rage by the way, definitely helping yourself out there by writing in all caps.

        By the way i didn’t read your post.

      • sam says :

        thats alright anticultist. For all the sane readers out there, they can see that I at least gave evidence of government corruption they never knew about. And if they actually do their own research they can actually see that there is no way you would have been able to prove me wrong concerning the points in the previous post :)

      • sam says :

        btw, I guess you’re calling factual events a delusion now. Readers who are actually willing to do some research(unlike you) will see you for themselves.

      • sam says :

        btw, wyboth asked me to provide evidence, which I did. Hopefully he replies, since I made the effort. Otherwise, I think we can assume he cannot come up with any reliable evidence to prove my recent posts wrong.

      • sam says :

        Im also willing to debate other people who have evidence that debunks what I just said. Cause anticultist obviously can’t. The best he can do is “the investigation of te reece committee was done 40 years ago, so therefore, the findings 40 years ago about government corruption doesn’t apply to us.”
        Oh yeah, great argument anticultist, you sure convinced alotta people with that.

      • anticultist says :

        It’s not that I can’t sam, I have a strict policy of not debating idiots on the internet once I know they are conspiritards beyond my reach. Hence why you get no respect from me when it comes to debate, you are not worth the effort.

      • sam says :

        you’re all talk. No walk :)

      • Beenie says :

        I just think anti-cultist has a level of intelligence that has made him ignorant. I can’t really say this for sure, but since he puts so much effort into proving ‘cranks’ wrong, he can’t be putting effort into anything that really matters.

        Do you inform regular, non-conspiracy theorists of the disgusting corruption coming from the UK and US governments?

        I do think Sam has posed some useful info towards the end of his comments, but anticultist has actually just been rather insulting.

        Basically, I’m just going to lay down the facts in simplistic terms. American/ UK government are disgustingly corrupt and value our imaginary economies over human life. This site is helping the search for truth, but also brings out some extreme ugliness from the self righteous ‘enlightened members’, so I don’t respect them, and possibly not what they stand for. One final fact – cannabis kills cancer. Go and google that and get it debunked, try it, I know I’ve tried to disprove this, but it cannot be.

        You get to the point and you think ‘conspiracy theories are dangerous’. Really, you don’t even need conspiracy theories to get frustrated with the numb state of the population. I battle every day with the contempt I feel for the people whose unimportant lives take priority over fighting the evil that controls our world – and that’s exactly what it is, evil. Blatant evil,

        Go and fight that instead of wasting 90% of your time. You’ve fought for relatively unimportant truths, you’ve debunked half truths, which is what most of these conspiracies are borne out of, now why not use your intelligence to fight these disgusting corporations that have really have pretty much formed an illuminati.

        When we get down to it, what we have is, the extremely rich who are exempt from law, and the poor that feel the full force of the law. It’s plain fucking wrong.

        And ‘A Rational Person’ – you seem to just be a bit of a prick, how old are you? You seriously are a joke. Keyboard wind-up merchant. It’s pathetic, Go and strive for some important truths.

      • Beenie says :

        Well then you know where the real battle is – and what an actual NWO would be hiding behind.

        To me you’re fighting the same cause.

      • anticultist says :

        You have to first prove a new world order exists and that it has an actual membership before you can say it is hiding behind something.

        You can’t just say that something exists, or that the mere fact there is no evidence it exists pints towards its existence.

        The NWO is a fabricated terminology utilised by contrarians and conspiracists, who would seek to have the rest of society believe in a pernicious hidden government whose sole objective is the curtailing of human dignity/freedom and existence on the planet. This is something akin to a horror story told by parents or the government itself in order to strike fear into the heart of its subjugates.

        If you believe it you are just falling for fabricated stories without evidence like any good citizen and child should do.

        The irony about questioning authority as being somehow a conspiracy theorists mind set could not be further from the truth, for they accept the make believe story of a shadow government without evidence or questioning its existence.

        The real questioning of authority is being done by skeptics, who not only question their governments decision making processes and claims, but they also question the fabrications and claims that anti government sects make on the other side.

      • sam says :

        First off. The NWO is not a fabrication. It may not be what many conspiracy theorists are saying it is, but people like george hw bush have used the term New World Order many times in their speeches. David Rockefeller, who has extreme influence in the international community has also stated he is working towards a one world government. He says it’s for the good of mankind, but that is where conspiracy theorists seem to doubt him, as do I. David rockefeeler helped to create the trilateral commission some other organization I can’t remember right now.

        So my argument is that the NWO is real and people are striving towards it, but why they want a NWO can be debatable.

      • a rational person says :

        the nwo is a fabrication and sam believes in lizard people and thinks 911 was an inside job.

      • sam says :

        Another thing, banking families like the rockefellers have often tried to steal from populations under the guise of “doing it for the good of mankind”. Before you call me a delusional nut, I suggest you look throughout the history of the rothschilds and other central bankers. And not just into the most readily available information.

        I will provide you one example which many people do not know about. How did social security get passed? As you may know, things like social secuirty needs big sponsors. The sad fact is that many times, good will is not going to get a bill passed. The fact is that John D. Rockefeller was one of the biggest reasons that social security was passed and it was not because he wanted to help the common person.

        It was because social security would mean that John D. Rockefeller didn’t have to pay for workers pension funds. Instead, because of social security, much of it would be taken from the workers themselves. Again, my argument is not that social security is bad. That is another argument.

        Another thing, I’m sure many of you know about Al Gore and his global warming “scam”. Again, I believe global warming is occurring, but whether it is man made or not can be debateable.

        While he was campaigning for carbon taxes, I’m sure many of you know that he was investing in companies that would profit enormously from those carbon reforms. Also, the carbon trading system he presented was also created through the help of some crooks from enron, who also went to jail. Lastly, he was leaving behind a carbon footprint FAAARR above the average american.

        My point is, you can’t always rely on what they say, even the mass media for you source of news. There are often “hidden agendas” which you can only suspect if you look at the actions surrounding something like a bill.

        You must look at their intentions by looking at their actions instead of just listening to the lying politicians say. Cause they often do something else.

        I am also going to reiterate the fact that the terrorists killed a few thousand americans in the United States. Our army has killed approximately 100 times that in terms of innocent civilians. I’m asking you if you see any discrepancy in what the United States is saying and doing.

        Not to mention the fact that we invaded countries which weren’t even involved in the terrorist attacks.

        I’m just pointing out some events I noticed. I’m not here to claim “inside job”. Thats up for you guys to decide.

      • anticultist says :

        Sorry sam there is no NWO, and most certainly is not one like you claim or believe. Secondly just because you personally fear something due to your own perceptions does not make it something that is real or even something the rest of us would every consider scary.

        The fact you mention talking points that most conspiracy theorists always do, rockefeller, trilateral commission, you haven’t mentioned the council fof foreign relations or bildeberg group yet but I am sure you intend to. These are all just talking points with no actual value to add to evidence for the NWO claims.

        There are no global domination threats to society in the vein of conspiracy theorist claims, the biggest threat to society are religious intolerance and the politics of fear. Something which conspiracy theorists have wholeheartedly bought into.

      • sam says :

        Sorry, I have to clarify a point. I can’t prove that the NWO actually exists now. But you can prove that people are striving towards NWO and one world government. And the concept of a NWO among the “elites” is very real. Bad wording sorry.

      • sam says :

        I’m assuming you don’t understand the kind of leverage the Rockefeller family has in the international community, especially in the US?

        The trilateral commission, bilderberg, United Nations are all talking points to illustrate the amount of influence he has. I know it doesn’t prove malicious intention.

        But the Reece Committee has already done that.

        Also, David Rockefeller is very close friends with people like George Bush and Dick Cheney. At a conference with Dick Cheney and many mass media outlets, David Rockefeller himself stated that they were working towards a NWO.

        So, I believe this at least illustrates the possibility that powerful people are working towards a NWO. I don’t believe the NWO exists as of right now though

      • anticultist says :

        It’s not that I don’t understand your claims of the Rockefellers supposed power, it is actually that I don’t consider their intentions or actions are headed towards any malicious or evil plan like conspiracy theorists and anti semites claim repeatedly.

        There is in fact no reason to believe they have ever planned or do plan to conduct an evil plot against us.

      • Beenie says :

        Fuck you, Frank.

        Conspiracy theorists are dangerous in Frank’s book, but government criminals, responsible for the most vile acts of torture and murderer just made ‘poor decisions’.

        You are a fucking fruit cake of the highest order.

        We don’t need conspiracy theories, and we don’t need warped freaks like you, who thinks his intelligence is more important than human lives, evidentially you’re not as smart as you think, Frank. You are one hyprocritical, deluded freak.

      • anticultist says :

        Dude your ranting is becoming tiresome now, you are starting to come across like a creepy stalker making shit up about me. Are you this strange in real life or are you just creepy on the internet ?

      • Clock says :

        Well, don’t they already use Hemp in everyday items? According to wikipedia, it is used in cordage and building architecture. The thing is, Hemp is Cannabis, which is illegal in many parts of the world, which stops farms from growing them.

    • Beenie says :

      What we need to is to fuck off ignorant idiots like you.

      I’m sorry that I believe different things to you, and that it makes me a loon for looking for alternative solutions.

      Seriously – what a prick.

      I don’t know if I think you’re more pathetic if you believe that your truth is the only version( or if you’re just a troll. Either way you’re obviously a closed minded fool, who would rather fight people than try and sort problems out.

      Seriously, what a retarded fucker. Pointless human being. You pick up on the only contestable part of my argument, you can’t say shit – you are part of the problem. What are you doing with your life? The guy who wrote this article was marginally useful, he gave some different points of view, which I respect- what the fuck have you done ?

      I had ‘friends’ like you. They wanted to fight me because I said fuck paying tax to this criminal, extortive government, he’d rather fight me about my opinions on tax, than even criticise a criminal government – and it’s pathetic, you’re pathetic. You’re a deranged loon, not the people looking for solutions.

      Slightly different opinions from most makes you insane! Run away from the loon who sees things in a slightly different light! He’s a danger to… my ego.

      • anticultist says :

        Think we hit a nerve Rational :) You know what they say though mate, the truth hurts. Looks like our boy Beenie has a whole world of hurting going on right about now ha ha.

      • a rational person says :

        hey anticultist, i’ll betcha $100 this nutbag voted for ron paul! HAHAHAHAHA

      • anticultist says :

        Ron Paul 2012…woops.

      • Beenie says :

        I don’t believe in any of it, I’m just sick of dicks who would rather bend over for extortive pricks.

        We don’t need anyone in charge. We don’t need thought police either.

        We just need a change, not some bullshit democracy that obviously doesn’t work.

        I don’t believe in any of these conspiracy theories, I just look at the facts and that the British and American governments are disgusting, it’s even worse that most don’t really care about it, and don’t really care about anything but themselves – or in your cases, disproving conspiracies on the net. Boring, boring, boring

      • anticultist says :

        I posted some facts above but the post is awaiting moderation because it has links in it. Facts that disprove the moon hoax and 911, but chances are even if you got those links in your small mind these would not constitute as facts, and you would carry on believing 911 was a potential inside job and the moon landings might not have happened.

        The facts are already out on these subjects, and people who don’t understand that are just people who are refusing to look at, believe or fail to understand.

      • Beenie says :

        Pity? You’re a pretty low human being, hocked up on his own ego thinking he can talk down to people over the internet, your comtempt for your fellow man is disgusting.

        Tou can go on about peer reviews. Reviews of the human mind by people who don’t even know where the human mind came from? Where do thoughts come from? Are they your own, I bet they feel like it when you’re trying so hard to control them.

        Basically, you have no why! Why do drugs make people more likely to believe conspiracy theories? Realising that some of them aren’t so bad and that they’ve been lied to by the same people who take their money to go and bomb the fuck out of civilians? Seems pretty fucking logical to me. The level of hypocritical shit that is spouted from anyone with an inclination to agree with the government is laughable.

        I have a lot to learn, you have a lot to ignore, filter through the lies and get to the peer review journals. Majority opinion and all that ;) – studying people’s minds, hmm I feel a conspiracy theory coming on here. Perhaps they’re brainwashing the children? Oh wait that’s already factual… Best keep fighting me on the Internet though. Keep spouting about your theories, and these peer reviewed conspiracies!

      • anticultist says :

        Your replies are whack, you are just an emotional wreck and lack critical thinking.
        You couldn’t solve a crossword puzzle, let alone fix the planets problems, Of course I can’t take you seriously !

      • Mr. Anon says :

        One of the telltale signs that 9/11 truthers are full of shit is the fact that they claim to have all this evidence proving their case, but they won’t lift a finger to help out Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who’s currently on trial. The reason is clear: they want the attention of claiming “9/11 is an inside job” but refuse to actually invest themselves into taking the next step because it involves defending a man who cut off heads on television. Just like the “free energy” cranks who boast about all the potential of their devices, yet refuse to publish the designs for other scientists to replicate.

      • Beenie says :

        and yes, anticultist, your sociology is bullshit. There are highly intelligent individuals involved in examining the nature of human behaviour, but sectioning people off, to me, is equivalent to social Darwinism. I have huge moral problems with saying that a section of human beings are solely reactive and are dangerous, yet no part of the reason they have reacted in such a way is down to corruption. Please correct me if I am not right in saying so, and if part of not identifying with the system is caused by corruption, or whether their tendency to believe in ‘conspiracy theories’ (very fucking vague term) is just down to personal flaws.

      • anticultist says :

        Actually a persons beliefs are inherent to their social status, upbringing and education. Beliefs are merely the word we use to define how a person ingests information and interprets it in order to view the world and everything in it.

        Conspiracy theories are in fact beliefs, and it should be obvious to you that if you are from a certain political/financial and societal position then what you are informed of is going to differ from culture to culture.

        Conspiratorial thinking is in fact tied to specific cultural specifics as stated above, and also is tied to particular mental imbalances. The two exacerbate one another if they co exist in a person.

        You may well find this all rather insulting and akin to social Darwinism but it makes it no less true.

      • Beenie says :

        At least you’re honest. I do view poor people with a similar sort of disdain. I think they’re too apathetic and have been socialised that way, by the government and their mentally inept parents.

        They are peasants in the mind, as well as financially.

        Have you ever watched any John Pilger documentaries, Anticultist?

        Sorry my comments are scattered across the forum, it’s a lot of effort to find your replies on the iPhone and I read them through my email notifications.

        And I still am fighting through with my own sense of truth. This is only the case because so many people are swayed by half-truths, both from official and non-official sources. I do think we can have ultimate truths, but when it comes to labelling people in a black and white manner, you lose me. Reason being is that I’m still in the middle of this mess.

      • anticultist says :

        Yes I have watched a few of Pilgers documentaries.

        I believe the war on democracy is one of the most cited of his works by people.

      • Beenie says :

        Oh and you attempting to justify violating human rights as ‘poor decisions’ shows how your mind is warped – because nobody has that divine right. So yes, you are deluded if you honestly believe that, ‘anticultist’.

        Seriously, you are a fucking crank.

    • Beenie says :

      No, it was only you that offended me.

      The other comments are fair enough, but I’d still say that there are problems that you don’t seem to care about.

      You’re clinging onto to anticultist’s relatively intelligent comments, without saying anything intelligent yourself.

      I’m not really interested into outlining what the typical aspects of conspiracy theorists are. I’m more interested in aiming to solve problems/ not getting involved too heavily in a system I don’t agree with – with people who would rather attack others than do anything productive. I didn’t even see anticultist’s comment, but in all honesty – its boring, let’s use reason to make the world better, rather than to disprove conspiracy theories. If there’s no reasoning with conspiracy theories, then ‘a rational person’ seems to be on par with them.

      Can you deny that there’s a lot of horrid shit going on at the minute, most of the world’s systems are extremely dysfunctional and controlling, I just want to live in a truly free world, with as little needless suffering as possible. I want reason to prevail and be the driving force behind this.

      • anticultist says :

        Of Course all people other than dick heads want a good world, it’s not exactly a new psychological state of mind. But equating that with belief in conspiracy theorists only is a false starting point, there people from all walks of life who hold the same mind set. You don’t have to hate the world and the government to want good things in this life.

        The sooner you understand that the better off you will be.

      • a rational person says :

        hey beenie, you believe in lizard people? bet ya do…you believe 9/11 was an inside job? bet ya do…think the moon landing was faked? bet ya do…

        we’re supposed to trust a person with beliefs like this to help us “make the world better”? your prescription is to put nutbags in charge? ya, that’s gonna work…

      • alex says :

        Oh yeah I’m guessing you find nothing suspicious about the stories our government told us about osama bin laden. We don’t need to prove that there was an inside job. Just the fact that they have consistently lied to us should cause some suspicion.

        Concerning osama. I find it suspicious that they supposedly wanted to give him a “proper” burial by dumping him into the sea. oops. guess its impossible to verify whether they killed osama now. how conveneint.

        Second, the navy seal team that supposedly killed him died in a helicopter a few weeks later. How convenient again.

        But youre just a good little dog that believes everything his master tells him so I’m just being a crazy idiot.

      • anticultist says :

        Osama Bin Laden conspiracy theories LOL, further evidence Alex is a retard.

      • Beenie says :

        I’m open to lizard people being real, but my rational side laughs at it.

        I think 9/11 looks dodgy as fuck, and I have no clue about it.

        I’m open to the moon landing being fake.

        I’m open to any truth, it’s a good state of mind.

        And no you don’t have to hate the government to bring good to the world, but we should spend more time pressing the government than mislead people – unless there’s a purpose behind it. Will it help the world when you keep fighting a losing battle against conspiracists? Will it do anything important ? Funnily enough, if, somehow, conspiracy theorists over threw our shitty government, say 10 years ago, about 100,000 iraqis may still be alive.

      • alex says :

        Oh right. cause questioning the government in a conspiracy

      • alex says :

        “Funnily enough, if, somehow, conspiracy theorists over threw our shitty government, say 10 years ago, about 100,000 iraqis may still be alive.”
        Don’t forget to mention innocent iraqis. They supposedly killed a few thousand of our guys. What do we do? We start surveiling everyone. Taking away our liberties. And we kill way way more people than the terrorists did. Anticultist is too stupid to see anything wrong with that. Or maybe he just doesnt care.

      • anticultist says :

        Alex you are just getting more paranoid and stupid as you go on, you ought to watch out that the government aren’t surveilling you through this blog post, because the posts you are making might put you on the CIA’s conspiracy quack watch list.

      • alex says :

        Thats really nice of you to trivialize the patriot act like that. I see you didn’t address the bigger problem which is the hundreds of thousands of innocent middle eastern people we have killed since 9/11

      • anticultist says :

        That’s because I don’t talk to crank when they demand me to Alex, I don’t have to discuss a topic that I didn’t bring up or feel the need to debate. If Iraqis being killed bothers you get the fuck over there and do something abut it, quit whining about it on the internet like you have some kind of moral high ground and ownership of the issue.

        You just come across like a bleeding heart liberal who is unwilling to do anything about the shit they cry about.

      • anticultist says :

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “I think 9/11 looks dodgy as fuck, and I have no clue about it.

        I’m open to the moon landing being fake.”
        ——————————————————————————————————–

        For you Beenie:

        911 debunked:
        http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

        moon hoax debunked:
        http://www.clavius.org/

      • sam says :

        @Anticultist
        Sorry. Your link does not disprove that 9/11 was an inside job. you can argue that it disproved some conspiracies such as the thermite. But you can’t argue that it was not an inside job. There is no proof of that. In fact, it was reported that Dick cheney knew of an impending terrorist attack. We don’t know the extent of his knowledge.

        You seem to think you know a lot. What if operation northwoods had been carried out and nobody knew of operation northwoods. Would you also be so keen to disprove the “conspiracy theorists”?
        Because in fact, the government had been planning to kill innocent americans and blame it on “cuban terrorists”.

      • anticultist says :

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “Sorry. Your link does not disprove that 9/11 was an inside job. you can argue that it disproved some conspiracies such as the thermite. But you can’t argue that it was not an inside job. There is no proof of that. ”
        ——————————————————————————————————–

        I can argue it was not an inside job, furthermore I am doing so. Until someone proves the claim with reasonable evidence, then I can sit here and ignore every claim they make about it. You say there is no proof of it not being an inside job. The job is not down to me to do that. If you make the claim it is an inside job, it is then down to you to provide the evidence for that claim, being as it is a fairly spectacular and out of the ordinary one to make.

        If you claim that your own government murdered it’s own people, or allowed the enemy to murder them, or supported the enemy in murdering them, then it is you who must provide the evidence. Furthermore, many people have tried to do this, and all of them have been shown to be incorrect so far. There are numerous websites, articles, books, documentaries and discussions that have all debated so called evidence provided, and all of them have shown that conspiracy theorists have absolutely nothing of substantial value. At least nothing that could be deemed evidence to show their claims are true beyond a reasonable doubt.

        So, if you are making a claim you must provide the evdidence, I don’t have to all I have to is dispute what you claim or provide. I don’t have to prove it wasn’t an inside job, that’s not how it works.

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “In fact, it was reported that Dick cheney knew of an impending terrorist attack. We don’t know the extent of his knowledge.”
        ——————————————————————————————————–

        Now regarding Dick Cheney.
        The following search will show you exactly why this is false too.

        http://www.911myths.com/html/cheney_in_charge_of_norad.html
        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “You seem to think you know a lot. What if operation northwoods had been carried out and nobody knew of operation northwoods. Would you also be so keen to disprove the “conspiracy theorists”?
        Because in fact, the government had been planning to kill innocent americans and blame it on “cuban terrorists”.”
        ——————————————————————————————————–

        Actually yes I would, because what you ar demanding is that because there is something written on a piece of paper that sets out a proposal, that I should then believe any claim made that lies within a similar vein as the proposal. So going by your claim I should, because of Northwoods, accept the claims that project blue beam is a realistic scenario, or that any claim you wish to make is real.

        The simple fact is this, if you make a specific claim you MUST provide evidence specific to that claim. you can not wheel out evidence of a hypothetical seperate incident and say look, they might have done that, so therefore this is true. that is not how evidence based discussions work. If you want to prove 911 happened as people claim it did, which might I add is about a dozen different methods according to conspiracy theorists, then each one of the claims must be proven absolutely.

        So yes I would be keen to disprove conspiracy theorists, and in fact I disbelieve everything they claim due to lack of evidence and disproven claims/evidence.

      • sam says :

        “Actually yes I would, because what you ar demanding is that because there is something written on a piece of paper that sets out a proposal, that I should then believe any claim made that lies within a similar vein as the proposal. So going by your claim I should, because of Northwoods, accept the claims that project blue beam is a realistic scenario, or that any claim you wish to make is real.

        The simple fact is this, if you make a specific claim you MUST provide evidence specific to that claim. you can not wheel out evidence of a hypothetical seperate incident and say look, they might have done that, so therefore this is true. that is not how evidence based discussions work. If you want to prove 911 happened as people claim it did, which might I add is about a dozen different methods according to conspiracy theorists, then each one of the claims must be proven absolutely.

        So yes I would be keen to disprove conspiracy theorists, and in fact I disbelieve everything they claim due to lack of evidence and disproven claims/evidence.”

        You sir are an idiot who’s too blinded by his own arrogance to see it. The only reason that operation northwoods was not carried out was because JFK refused to sign the proposal.

        Second. I DO NOT need to prove every claim made by conspiracy theorists absoulutely because I do not believe in all the claims they make. WHAT I AM CLAIMING is that at least some people in our government is CAPABALE AND WILLING to kill american citizens and blame it on foreign terrorists to give them reasons to invade a country. AND I am arguing that if they were willing to propose an “operation northwoods” then it is NOT A FAR STRETCH to assume they had a similar proposal for 9/11.

      • anticultist says :

        So no evidence then Sam, as I thought.

        Let us know when you can prove anything you believe in won’t you.

      • sam says :

        I am not here trying to prove anything. I’m trying to use simple logic.

        “Second. I DO NOT need to prove every claim made by conspiracy theorists absoulutely because I do not believe in all the claims they make. WHAT I AM CLAIMING is that at least some people in our government is CAPABALE AND WILLING to kill american citizens and blame it on foreign terrorists to give them reasons to invade a country. AND I am arguing that if they were willing to propose an “operation northwoods” then it is NOT A FAR STRETCH to assume they had a similar proposal for 9/11.”

        All im saying is dont be so quick to judge people who say it’s an inside job. Look at the outcomes of this war. It’s terrible. And like i said. Theyve tried it in the past. You don’t know if they tried it again. I’m not saying I have the document to prove it. They don’t just hand these top secret documents around. What I am saying is that they’ve shown themselves to be capable of such things

      • anticultist says :

        Well if you ever do have some evidence for what you believe MIGHT be true, please do share it with the rest of the world, you will be world famous and be a saviour to so many people on the planet.

        Until then I reserve the common sense to ignore what you and others consider MIGHT be real.

      • sam says :

        Second. operation northwoods is far from hypothetical.
        FACT:
        The Joint Chiefs of Staff of the United States drafted proposals for false flag attacks on the United States. The killing of innocent American civilians. They would then use this as an excuse to invade Cuba.

        FACT: The plan was not carried out due to the JFK administration disaproval.

        FACT: It is rational to suppose that the government is capable of carrying out similar operations.

        Do you, anticultist, think it is irrational to suppose that the government is capable of carrying out another false flag operation? Operation northwoods is just one of few. The internet is readily available. I suggest you look them up.

      • sam says :

        Thanks for your rant, which did not answer my question. All i’m asking is if it is logical to assume the government is CAPABLE of doing something as terrible as 9/11 given what they did in the past. And if you decide to resort to calling me a looney without asnwering my question I will assume you to have lost this argument. Any sensible person knows it is rational to think the government is CAPABLE. But you are just avoiding the question.

      • anticultist says :

        ———————————————————————————————————
        “Do you, anticultist, think it is irrational to suppose that the government is capable of carrying out another false flag operation? ”
        ———————————————————————————————————

        I think it is always possible, but since we are talking about hypothetical things, I also think it is possible for man to live another planet if we tried hard enough to do it. Currently this is not true, so that is exactly how I view your proposition.

        I don’t worry about what if or hypothetical.

      • anticultist says :

        Bear in mind by me answering that question I was not agreeing that your hypothetical false flag ever happened or would have.

      • sam says :

        “Until then I reserve the common sense to ignore what you and others consider MIGHT be real.”

        No, we consider the fact that false flag operations have FACTUALLY occurred. And we therefore conclude that the government is capable of future false flag operations.

        You on the other hand are arguing that even though the US has FACTUALYY carried out past false flag operations, that it is crazy to believe that 9/11 was a false flag. That kind of thinking confuses me.

      • anticultist says :

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “Operation northwoods is just one of few. The internet is readily available. I suggest you look them up….You on the other hand are arguing that even though the US has FACTUALYY carried out past false flag operations, that it is crazy to believe that 9/11 was a false flag. That kind of thinking confuses me.”

        You obviously have not read this have you.

        https://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/false-flag-attacks-debunked/

        I advise you to read stuff on the internet, instead of assuming the rest of us have not come across the inanity you asking us to accept.
        ——————————————————————————————————–

      • a rational person says :

        sam is a nutbag. there is no evidence 911 was an inside job. not a single tiny little butt nugget of evidence. NOT ONE!

        and no, sam, this “operation northwoods” fart that u keep stinking up this blog with doesn’t make it more likely that the government did 911. if there’s no evidence that the government did 911, then “operation northwoods” doesn’t matter anyway.

        i think u’re a nutbag…and you probably believe in lizard people and the NWO…or at least u “wouldn’t rule them out” which is the same thing as believing in them. nutbag, nutbag, nutbag. enuf said.

      • Mr. Anon says :

        (posted this in the wrong place before)

        One of the telltale signs that 9/11 truthers are full of shit is the fact that they claim to have all this evidence proving their case, but they won’t lift a finger to help out Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who’s currently on trial. The reason is clear: they want the attention of claiming “9/11 is an inside job” but refuse to actually invest themselves into taking the next step because it involves defending a man who cut off heads on television. Just like the “free energy” cranks who boast about all the potential of their devices, yet refuse to publish the designs for other scientists to replicate.

      • sam says :

        rational sounds like a 12 year old talking about pet lizards. I don’t believe in lizard people.
        @anticultist
        I’m do not consider muertos’ arguments very convincing. Yes, he does a good job debunking the few particular incidents he chooses. But there are many other incidents which he would not be able to disprove. He only chooses ones he is able to supposedly disprove.

        And yes, one of the many jobs of the CIA is false flag attacks, some of which are used to overthrow governments. I’m sure you can find non conspiracy examples on the internet, especially ones concerning the middle east. So these arguments about how false flag attacks don’t exist or that only the small ones get carried out is complete bs.

        My third point. All I’m pointing out is that the government has done MANY questionable and terrible things. This gives me just reason to question them, even consider 9/11 to be an “inside job”, because of what I have observed. You must consider the fact that it would be harder for “conspiracy theorists” or the like, to find hard facts proving it was an inside job because IF the government did do it, they wouldn’t let the facts go out so easily, nor would they admit it IF they did.

        ALSO, everyone knows that anyone who consistently lies and does one thing but says another gives reason to be suspect. I don;t see why it should be different with the government.

      • a rational person says :

        @ sam:

        u’re a nutbag. you have not presented a single piece of evidence that “911 was an inside job.” And evidence is not discrepancies or poking holes in something else, but actual evidence that someone in the us gov’t was behind 911. u can’t present a single butt nugget of evidence because there is none.

        u, sam, are fucking retarded. u are a conspiracy nutbag. u believe in lizard men. why are we supposed to take srsly anythign u say? u tell us we shoud believe “911 is an inside job”, which is totally ridiculous, and u think we should listen to ur bullshit about anything else? really? u really think we’re dumb enough to take what u say seriously? u really think anyone is stupid enoguh to believe anything u say?

      • anticultist says :

        Sorry Sam, Rational is right, you have provided nothing of value in respect to evidence, all you are doing is fallacious thinking. Your doubt about Muertos points only shows your ignorance to history and inability to reason properly when provided sensible debate.

        Essentially you are saying because someone has lied once or twice then everything they ever do is lies, and that is all you require to validate your claims. Sorry that is not how things work in the real world.

        Granted people/governments do and will continue to lie. This does not mean they lie about everything, and you have to prove exactly what it is they have lied about with a thing called evidence. You can’t just say I doubt you therefore I am right and what you say is all lies. This is the thinking of a very paranoid mind.

      • Wyboth says :

        Phew, I’ve been out of this for too long. Thanks Rational and Anticultist for covering for me when I was gone. I just hope you didn’t have to deal with Neo.

        Now, time to kick some CT ass!

      • sam says :

        I am going to ignore rational cuz I honestly think hes a teenager just calling people names. Ive read his other posts and he is THE most incoherrant of the posters. I said I don’t believe in lizard men and he goes on rambling about lizard men. lol

        “Essentially you are saying because someone has lied once or twice then everything they ever do is lies, and that is all you require to validate your claims. Sorry that is not how things work in the real world.”

        @anticultistI did not claim with absolute authority that it was an inside job and I don’t think you have the complete authority to do the latter. The government lied WAAAAY more than once in regards to 9/11. It is natural to suspect that there are alterior motives if they lied so much.

        How about fast and furious? How about CIA drug trafficking? FBI drug trafficking? It is against the law in practically every state to smoke marijuana and the government is involved in drug trafficking. Please don’t pull the “conspiracy theorist” bs on this. It’s not a conspiracy.

        I’m saying the government has been caught lying about MANY things. Not one or two. I don’t know where you got that from. And I question the stories our government tells us because of these lies. You are a coward to call me a conspiracy theorist and nutjob just because I question the official story of the government.

      • sam says :

        In regards to facts. I believe there are already enough in the rest of the posts. This place isn’t a good place to argue facts. It’s too much material. When I’m talking about CIA false flags, I’m assuming you at least have prelimanary knowledge on the matter, and that I don’t have to provide a list of examples. Second, I was not only talking about 9/11. I was also talking about false flags in general. You didn’t address the fact the CIA has a vast history of false flags, which we know about through declassified documents. Sometimes events may have the telltale signs of a false flag but there is no document to PROVE it because CLASSIFIED documents don’t get spread around that easily. You could very likely be one of those people who say that a false flag wasn’t a false flag just because the people who committed it didn’t admit to it or that there wasn’t any public document to show. The perpetrators arent going to wave a false flag classified document in our faces.

      • anticultist says :

        “You are a coward to call me a conspiracy theorist and nutjob just because I question the official story of the government.”
        ———————————————————————————————–

        No I am just being honest with you. There is nothing cowardly about me calling you out for being the crank that you clearly are.

        You are living inside your own paranoid mind, and the world simply doesn’t function the way you are trying to claim. You are a nutter, that is all there is to it.

      • Beenie says :

        I hope that the people who come here and get lambasted by all you arrogant pricks read that section right there – where you had no reply and your previous answers about the nature of corruption under our system were proven to be totally flawed.

        Your ego is too big to let you realise, but you’ve just been proven wrong – as shown by the lack of a proper retort. You can’t justify any of the last comments you made in the wake of what I’ve just said.

      • anticultist says :

        I hope they read it too, for they will see how I answered honestly and they will then see you repeating yourself like a clown looking for something that doesn’t exist.

    • Beenie says :

      No I don’t even know who the fuck Ron Paul is.

      I can just see that there is one, relatively intelligent, albeit, pointless and small minded argument being made. Then there is a self proclaimed ‘rational person’ who acts like a troll with no clue.

      Do you want a better world? It doesn’t seem like you do. Anticultist would rather say ‘this person has deemed this to be so’ and carry on ignoring problems.

      I’ve been down to my local mp and told him about plastics causing cancer and about the fact that I (like many) believe that we shouldn’t pay tax towards illegal, disgustingly immoral warfare.

      The politicians don’t care, the action groups lay quietly and the majority are aggressively ignorant or just plain stupid and lazy.

      • anticultist says :

        Yup I want a better world like anyone else, however i don’t believe stupid shit to validate why I want it. I want it because human beings are fucking stupid and believe crazy stuff, I would rather a more sane society that didn’t kill one another over imaginary gods, or believed in stupid conspiracy theories. Intelligence comes first, and stupid people who use apophenia to validate their conspiracy theories need shutting up.

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        I’ve been down to my local mp and told him about plastics causing cancer and about the fact that I (like many) believe that we shouldn’t pay tax towards illegal, disgustingly immoral warfare.
        ——————————————————————————————————–
        You would probably need to provide evidence that plastics cause cancer in the first place though ha ha
        And without tax you would need to provide the benefits for society it would provide that outweigh the negatives of removing it.

      • a rational person says :

        my idea for a better world? no conspiratards.

        srsly. thats what i want. conspiratards are the reason politics in the usa is so fucked. theyre ruining shit with their birther crap, their “global warming hoax” bullshit and their “sovreign citizen” asswipery. that’s what conspiratards have done for the usa. pretty picture huh?

        isn’t there an article on this site about the kind of world we’d have if conspiratards were in charge? i kinda remember it but i’m too lazy to go looking for it…somebody link me

        maybe we could conscript conspiratards for heavy labor or something…there’s a bridge near my house needs fixing…yea, good idea

      • Beenie says :

        Listen you are intelligent to a degree.

        Tax is lazy, I could go and work in my community and do could every other skilled/ nonskiled individual.

        You are stuck in a small universe, your truth could be wrong. Lizard men could be real for all you know, how daft you’d look if it turned out to be right though.

        Not me though, I would have been open to it. But look, otherwise I’m not invested in it. You’re invested in disproving ‘nuts’, how low is your self esteem? What are you doing with your life?

        There’s loads of dodgy shit going on, I’m not surprised there’s conspiracy theorists.

        I’m opting out of this now, it’s taken up enough of my life and it’s fucking boring.

        I’ll stay open to possibilities, you stay closed and keep thinking that your truth is the only correct version.

        Keep fighting! Keep consuming chemicals! Keep destroying the earth. S’all good, as long as we set them damn murdering conspiracy theorists straight. Pathetic.

      • a rational person says :

        haha, i knew this nut (beenie) believed in lizard people. and he’s a moon hoaxer too. lol

        yea, these are the people that conspiratards think are gonna “change the world”…u show em moon landing footage and they scream “FAKE!” or you show em 3,000 ppl getting killed by terrorists and they scream “INSIDE JOB!” u can’t do anything with these people…they just don’t have the brain jelly to be able to make rational decisions about anything…not gonna see too many plans to “save the world” coming from that crowd.

      • anticultist says :

        Yeah and he has the balls to call me partially intelligent LOL.

        These people are delusional to a level psychopaths exhibit.

      • anticultist says :

        ——————————————————————————————————–
        “isn’t there an article on this site about the kind of world we’d have if conspiratards were in charge? i kinda remember it but i’m too lazy to go looking for it…somebody link me”
        ——————————————————————————————————–

        Yeah here:
        https://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/2012/06/06/paranoid-utopia-the-nightmare-world-that-thrive-would-give-us/

    • Beenie says :

      Whack. Cool word. Ive wasted some serious time on here.

      I’m going to clear up some points before I go. Definitely aware that people can have a better understanding of many more things than me. Whether you do? I think you’re stuck up your own arsehole.

      I’m obviously purposely winding you up about some of this stuff, but you clearly don’t understand everything there is to know, and you know my stance, it doesn’t exist in your mind, and you’re trying to appeal to an image that isn’t real – the higher intelligence. Reason being why it isn’t real for you – you don’t understand it, you’re not an ‘academic’. And no, I wouldn’t just write off what a lot of these highly intelligent individuals think, but I’d take it with a pinch of salt and let it enter into the bank of information that can be seem almost ultimately true at one moment and not so the next.

      The only ultimate truths I could take from SCIENCE, not theories on behaviour/ the actual reasons behind cognitive actions, would be the truths that you can prove in practise. Paradigms are constantly shifting, you best be careful, you’ll lose face when you have to shift with them.

      Now, go have a whack attack, whack one out over your peer review journals ;)

      • Beenie says :

        Isn’t it*

        But isn’t actually reasonable at all, to any reasonable person, considering the political history of the US and of the wealthy’s abuse of the poor.

        There is most certainly an agenda, most likely at the highest level, due to the nature of the operations, due to the fact it benefits corporstions who should have no real political sway when it comes to foreign policy, no less arranging coups in other countries that will benefit them.

        No, I’m sorry, this cannot be justified, this is why the illuminati exist, the wealthy dominating the world, imposing their system/reaping reward by imposing themselves on other countries in the name of business over human life.

        What do you say about that? To me, it’d be pretty ironic if you are trying to justify any of it, or whether you’re just saying that it is justifiable – because anyone who justifies that is what I would definitely deem as not of a sound mind, deluded, warped, pretty much insane etc. No personal insult meant to you if not.

      • garbage being says :

        theres no agenda
        the illuminati does not exist
        thrive is bullshit
        you are a nutbag.

        questions?

      • anticultist says :

        illuminutty you mean right

      • Beenie says :

        I don’t know what you believe, but all of you say things that discredit this website – mainly insulting and troll like comments.

        Even muertos said insulting things that showed a basically flawed outlook, and it seems that most of you fail to make the link between conspiracy theories and reality – like any good lie they are based on half truths, and the truth is that there is a group of wealthy people conducting a war on the poor. Just make that link with that fact and the implication of this truth = illuminati in any form. The rest is unproven conspiracy theory that disinterests me, but you’re stopping yourselves realising something – you’re attached to a ‘debunking’ persona, that seems to be stopping you making truthful links.

        It’s like if I was going to attach myself any set of imaginary ideals, they create a dichotomy in the individual, and you have to appeal to those ideals to sustain that reality, so it is for this reason that you’re not reaching the truth.

        So if your aim is to reach the truth, I’d ditch this particular type of debunking persona – it seems to be attached to an intelligent, yet egotistical, troll like set of attributes, and on top of that, it means that if any of the half truths of any conspiracy is real, you have to deny the truth.

        You’ve already admitted that there is a small group of psychopaths causing massive problems, these psychopaths are in favour / influenced by / are the wealthy.

        I’ve removed notifications from here. I think I’ve pretty much got everything I needed from this site, and I leave more well informed, educated and critical than when I came here. My opinions have changed and you’ve aided me on my road, but most of you seem to have hit a plateau, or exuberate ignorance and other pathetic attributes.

        Thanks, and inabit.

      • Wyboth says :

        ______________________________________________________

        ” like any good lie they are based on half truths, and the truth is that there is a group of wealthy people conducting a war on the poor.”
        ______________________________________________________

        The only truth there is in the new world order is the world part, i.e. there is a planet. If that’s what you mean by half-truth, then you’re correct. Otherwise, you’re just throwing idioms at us to prove that you’re right, which only makes you look nuttier in our eyes.
        ______________________________________________________

        “So if your aim is to reach the truth, I’d ditch this particular type of debunking persona – it seems to be attached to an intelligent, yet egotistical, troll like set of attributes, and on top of that, it means that if any of the half truths of any conspiracy is real, you have to deny the truth.”
        ______________________________________________________

        The only reason we are so closed minded (to use your term) towards conspiracy theories is because we have seen so many that have been false. Basically, you see someone who’s shouting himself hoarse about an earthquake machine in Alaska. You take them aside and listen to their argument, then try to show them how it’s illogical. But instead of listening, they slap you in the face and keep shouting. You know that they’re wrong, but there’s nothing you can do to convince them of it. Then, you see someone shouting about government cover-ups of aliens, and the cycle starts all over again. You see, when you’ve been through this several times, there’s no reason to believe yet another one of these shouting people when they can’t prove anything they’re saying and you’ve seen so many like them who have been wrong.
        ______________________________________________________

        “You’ve already admitted that there is a small group of psychopaths causing massive problems, these psychopaths are in favour / influenced by / are the wealthy.”
        ______________________________________________________

        Really? Could you please link me to that? I don’t seem to remember any of us saying it. Much appreciated.
        ______________________________________________________

        “I think I’ve pretty much got everything I needed from this site, and I leave more well informed, educated and critical than when I came here.”
        ______________________________________________________

        It seems like I was exactly right when I guessed that you were a hit-and-run troll. Glad we could help you with whatever it was that changed your mind, have a nice day!

      • anticultist says :

        Yeah I didn’t admit there were psychopaths causing mass problems, I stated that people who didn’t have problems sleeping at night after carrying out social injustices were psychopaths. i also discussed how certain parts of government such as the neo cons were manipulative and lied in order to get their own agenda to the forefront of the political band stand.

        I did not admit there was some kind of elitist agenda in place. I am happy to say that yes there are certain groups of people who do shady things, in government yes. However this does not mean that we can tie all the things I said up and say I agree there is a new world order ran by elitists who have their own agenda. This is not what I am saying.

        I hate it when people misinterpret what is being said and tie it up into their own package for me.

      • Beenie says :

        Dang, checked this and feel the need to reply.

        Let me just put it simply, under every system, the poor feel the full force of the law, but the wealthy / powerful do not – this especially evident under our system, where the US and UK governments have killed illegally and unlawfully.

        Then we see that the US have arranged coups in South American countries – helped remove leaders who are in favour of grass roots democracy, empowering the poor (eg attempted removal of Chavez), and have aided moving fascist leaders into the place of the previously elected leaders.

        So in America and the UK, the poor feel the full force of their legalities, statutes which revolve around money/fines, but the governments prove they are exempt from common and international law – yet if the poor refused to pay taxes towards governments breaking the law, they would be imprisoned.

        Not only are these governments oppressing the poor in their own countries, but they are also aiding the murder, torture and oppression of the poor in other countries.

        Let’s get real here, the rich are exempt from the law, and proves at least some kind of passive agenda being present.

        Im not saying this makes any conspiracy theory real, I’m just saying that it’s factual that our system doesn’t favour the poor and should not take the place of grass roots democracy in poor countries. Also, the fact that the poor are being oppressed is an agenda in itself. The fact that America are spreading their false democracy seems to indicate the half truth of the NWO theory – that wealthy people are seaking to oppress the poor on an inter-continental scale. The reason why is probably just for money, but it’s happening, and is indisputable.

      • 1piece says :

        Is it just me or does it seem like Americans

        Not all but maybe most think that the world revolves around the U.s?
        Like with the comlnspiracies
        ..there far more important things to worry about.

      • anticultist says :

        If you don’t have money then rich people are always going to do things you don’t like because you don’t have the money to interact or prevent them. It is called capitalism, and that is the system that presides over western democratic society, if you are saying this is at fault you might have something remotely true. However capitalism is hardly evil, abuse of power and money is nothing new, and has been around since the invention of trade.

        If you are surprised or shocked and think that the world should operate on a perfect moral playing field explain exactly how you think you are going to eradicate people committing crimes, because essentially that is all you are complaining about.

        Crime is not going to go away, Greed is not going to go away, and socio economic differences are always going to exist, unless you are going to tyranically re allocate wealth distribution. Which is no better than the things you are complaining about above.

      • Beenie says :

        1piece – I’m English . And, bigger things to worry about that people being needlessly tortured and killed ay? Maybe, if your job is disarming nukes.

        Anticultist – now I do just honestly think you’re chatting shite. The rich will do things I don’t like because I can’t prevent them? This is about governments empowering the rich to act above the law, and also business interests causing the oppression of the poor on an inter-continental level, enacted through the goverments of the UK and US. So this is more about the governments of the world not protecting the poor from massive corporations. I can supply many examples of this within my country alone.

        So anticultist, you’re showing your evident desire to be right is more powerful than your desire to find the truth – with such a narrow minded statement. Yes, capitalism is faulty and encourages these things, but the government needs to keep this in check and they evidentally are not at all.

        Wyboth – I’ve been commenting on here for a few months now, so I
        dont understand why I’m a ‘hit and run troll’ – in fact, you should be embarrassed by the amount of trolling coming from the debunkers.

        And I don’t know how I’m nutty – I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I’ve looked into conspiracy theories, but I just really resent the attitude of people who believe they’re right over everything else.

        The only thing I could be called a conspiracy theorist about is that I believe cannabis could cure cancer, after reading many testimonials and looking into a lot of unofficial info. It definitely kills cancer (which is what I said to Anticultist), because it kills human Lewis lung cancer cells in vitro and in mice. Anticultist showed me government information – but he supposedly questions official information. It really appeals to logic that a cancer cure could be surpressed in the name of making money, especially considering what I’ve just been talking about – the needs/ rights of corporations being put vastly before human life.

        Anyway, it’s just disgusting corruption that is ruling the ‘free world’ at the minute, and it’s just plain fucking wrong – without any conspiracy theory at all.

      • Beenie says :

        So basically, to recap – I think your intentions are good, but you’re generally egotistical enough to be missing the point.

      • anticultist says :

        When was the last time you voted a government in all for the poor and wasn’t comprised of capitalists ?

        Let us know and perhaps we can have a serious discussion. Matter of fact is this, you and I know this has never been the case, poor people have no say in how the world runs. Period.

      • anticultist says :

        I am not saying this is right, but if we are going to be real that is how the capitalist world functions, so complaining about it wont help, the only way to change things is to get involved and get your hands dirty.

      • Beenie says :

        Wyboth – just seen your original comment about ‘hit and run trolls’.

        You make your claim that I’m trying to say ‘it’s true’. What exactly am I trying to say is true, the new world order?

        I think you must either be on the offensive for conspiracy theorists, or you just lack the basic attention to argue your case properly. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, at least not about what you have presumed I’m talking about.

        I’ve stated the truth and shall do again – the poor feel the full force of the law and are used as easy prey (either through their socialised ignorance in wealthy countries, or just their position of low power in poor countries) by big corporations / governments to make money at all costs, including breaking important laws that exist to protect basic human rights. These laws have been violated grossly, over and over – I don’t believe they are all just ‘poor decisions’, and most people can see that things such as overthrowing democratically elected leaders and replacing them with torturing, murdering fascists are absolutely disgraceful acts and should never, ever happen. The governments, who seem to have the interests of the wealthy at heart (and in cases such as foreign sweat shops etc, other goverments allow western companies to break human rights laws), have failed to have justice brought to them consistently. If you justify these actions (like anticultist did) then in my mind, you are a warped individual.

        Basically, the poor are easy game, and in wealthy countries they’ve been trained to be hand over their taxes/ pay their fines to their criminal governments – and they think it’s a virtue.

        If our system is encouraging the powerful the violate human rights, then I think we need to start some proper reform – oh but hold up, real reform is very hard under this system! And yes Anticultist – I want rid of capitalism as we know it today, but this is not insane, capitalism is allowing mass corruption, starvation and just excuse after excuse to do things badly. No system is more important than the majority of people. Paying tax is not a necessity either, I’d prefer to bring a community together and have them responsible for their surroundings – perhaps too idealistic, but we could work towards it and perhaps encourage people to just be better in general.

      • Beenie says :

        ‘Really, when you get down to it, a small group of rich people will be influencing things, probably loads of small groups all over the place – it’s called Capitalism. This is why, just associating the NWO with a single group, controlling the world is small minded, because in my mind, it’s just an exaggerated form of what’s going on anyway. I’m sick and tired corporations being protected from the people, it should be the other way around’ – beenie, 2012

        I understand that’s what Capitalism is, and have already made that point

        And why should I have to get my ‘hands dirty’ when there is already laws in place to stop most of these henous, corrupt acts? In fact, people like John Pilger have already got their hands dirty, and made this kind of corruption almost common knowledge – and guess what, it still goes unpunished. Could it be that pretty much the whole system is corrupt? It seems so.

        When I can go to hmv and buy a documentary about the US breaking human rights laws over and over – these are well established facts. I’ll keep telling people about this freely available information, but really, the established laws and regurgitated information should be enough for American and British politicians/ business people to be locked away for a long time – does this happen?

        But it also doesn’t help when people like you are labelling these things as ‘poor decisions’. That’s usually the road that half-brained propaganda swallowers go down – because it’s ultimately flawed to regard these things as poor decisions that may go unpunished. What it actually comes down to, is if we had less people thick people who believe that excuse, and less people like you who wouldn’t entertain that silly statement, then we’d probably end up on the street, overthrowing the people that hold human life with such little value. I really do believe that, because people don’t have a tendency to tolerate criminals, but thick people don’t realise. Then you (and I can see through what you’ve previously said) are so hocked up on your debunking persona, that you end up denying the middle ground inbetween with silly, transparent statements like that one about ‘poor decisions’. And that middle ground is the obvious fact that the whole system must be corrupt, including the justice system, who won’t condemn human rights / war criminals, but will make me feel the force of the law for ‘broadcasting’ the radio in my shop without a license, for refusing to pay money to a criminal government etc. It’s fucking disgusting and you can’t deny this – unless you believe that the justice system (like you) is sitting there with their hands over their ears, or thinking ‘li’l ol’ me can’t test government’.

        No – what we have is a totally immoral split in the justice system, where the governments and the wealthy get away with breaking established human rights laws, as well as many other domestic and international acts, daily. So when the poor feel the full force of the law in this case, it indicates some kind of agenda is in place, because this is even going on domestically. NOT THE FUCKING NWO, don’t allow your brain to switch off to reason here.

        So no, the agenda is not Capitalism, because there are laws under this system already, so your argument there is flawed.

        So we see this in our own countries, then uk/us governments go and help to massively oppress the poor in these other countries. What us going in here Anticultist? There’s a clear oppression of the poor at home and abroad, could that provide the ‘global’ part of the theory? Just to prove my original point about the conspiracy theory not being totally out if whack with reality.

        Then, we see that the US have done this in the name of bringing other countrys’ economies in line with theirs – aiding the US to dominate economically, through violence. We all know the true way to be dominant now is through economics. So there’s the domination part of the theory.

        And let’s link it now with what you said, if it is just Capitalism that effectively makes human rights laws obsolete in the wake of its presence, then spreading this system (which the US have done now, globally), then spreading capitalism is not only spreading US domination, but also the tools to oppress the poor. Questions?

      • Beenie says :

        I’m not calling you thick there, by the way, but I do think that your insistence on fighting me means that you’re trying to justify things as if I were a conspiracy theorist. These means that you’re now uneccessarily fighting a reasonable argument.

        When I read my old comments (which were a bit less cohesive) I see that yes, your argument at that point was very valid, but I just felt that something about this debunking persona was flawed – and I think that is the fact that you have this misplaced fighting spirit, it seems to have shown that you’re willing to make allowances for goverment criminals, but you’d rather fight deluded conspiracy theorists. The hypocrisy of this is that you justify it with the mostly unfounded notion that conspiracy theorists are dangerous, but you try to justify the actions of those who break human rights! Come on mate, it’s so fucking flawed – what could be of a bigger threat to the free world than massive organisations allowing vile criminal behaviour to take place on a large scale? Justifying criminal behaviour upon free nations does not only show a warped mindset, but also a severe lack of morals, and makes you a passive danger to the world – do you really want to justify such actions, will you go back on that, or attempt to justify it further and confirm your deluded mindset?

        It makes me wonder why, what’s it all about? And then it brings me back to what I was originally saying, this site is about being right. It’s for a group of people to put another down, and when I see you replying to loads of similar comments, it’s boring. You’re fighting people you know are suggestible and of low intellect, and yet you feel that you have to be right, and you take some kind of pleasure out of ‘correcting’ these individuals. Pretty sad.

        Although, like I was saying, I have learned from this site, there’s a lot of different points of view from both sides and unlike most of the debunkers, I’ve given them the time of day – and learnt from the debunkers if I’m honest.

        But yeah, this is why I feel that this persons is ultimately flawed, until I see one of you recognise that each part of the global domination agenda has its half truths . The agenda of using the poor for the rich’s gain with the justice system in cohorts, the domination of foreign countries in order to bring this about on a large scale, maybe not globally, but this system is all pretty much global – perhaps the rich might not have some master plan, but the agenda of oppressing the poor is most certain global and so is the lack of justice for the governments who are criminal on many levels.

        Anticultist, I really do feel like I’ve called you out here, and I don’t really know how you can justify this and deny the half truth of the glob domination agenda.

      • anticultist says :

        you may think you have called me out but to be honest i think you are just talking for the sake of it now. You made this same point days ago, and have been repeating it ever since.

      • anticultist says :

        btw funny that you have the nerve to call me deluded when i am the one who has been talking to you like an adult, fuck off now won’t you like you keep saying you will you are boring me now.

      • Beenie says :

        Right. Great reply.

        So it goes like this -

        You’re a nut for making excuses over and over for disgusting criminals.

        ‘poor people have no say in how the world is run’

        Come on mate, I think you’ve finally revealed the extent of your double think – I knew something was foul in your way of thinking. Because when I talk about criminals taking out grass roots democracy empowering the poor, and that is your reply, that’s what is ‘whack’.

        I’ve made a good point but all you say is wishy washy bullshit about there always being corruption. Then you don’t even reply.

        Honest opinion here, not trolling – this is more about arrogant pricks patting themselves on the back than seeking the truth.

      • Beenie says :

        Hahaha fucking brilliant. Come one, come all, into 1984.

      • anticultist says :

        double think/ jesus christ you sound like a bad author repeating himself ad infinitum, you don’t seem to know when you have ran out points do you ?

      • Beenie says :

        What, looking for holes in your argument ? I think I found them.

        It goes like this, you say that capitalism allows a lot of corruption and it will always exist under capitalism. So I point out the laws under capitalism against these corrupt acts and the people aren’t brought to justice. So your argument is flawed.

        And then, we’re arguing about grass roots democracy empowering the poor, under capitalism, being overthrown. Then you say the poor have no influence on capitalist society. You either forgot what we were arguing about, or are deluded to come up with such an incorrect statement. And if I was going on about it so much, how did you forget?

        The reason why I’ve gone on about it so much is because it’s or example of people getting away with their agenda of using the poor immorally for their gain. We have laws in place to stop this and yet it happens blatantly and very often. But the working class will feel the full force of the law.

        Im not looking for anything, just to prove the fact that this is pretty much a dictatorship – and you tried to justify it.

      • Beenie says :

        What I mean about the laws and lack of justice is somebody is obviously allowing these people to do this. There is no agenda against people who continually violate human rights laws. In other words, human rights laws are mostly a sham when it comes down to things like torture and murder.

        The existence of human rights laws should show an agenda in favour of the working class/ the extreme poor, instead the violation of them with no vindication shows the opposite.

      • anticultist says :

        Someone wake me up when he is done repeating himself please.

    • Beenie says :

      Because personally, the main reason I’ve looked into conspiracies is because I resent the corruption in the world, and definitely feel disenchanted with the system – the latter is a common stereotype, doesn’t mean I’m delusional like Anticultist inferred. It just means that the high levels of articulate corruption make some kind of super plan seem more plausible. What I never said makes more plausible is the existence of lizard people, or the moonlanding being false.

      Really a ‘super plan’ does exist, we at least know that the American government are breaking the law in the favour of corporations – even murdering people in the name of the interests of their economy.

      Now is it just me, or is human life more important thing than an imaginary system that people have to conform to, that people live and die in poverty for, that creates the correct circumstances for organised crime to flourish? Personally I’d like to look for a change to this system, which seems logical for the advancement of the human race – the very fact that it doesnt change shows me that powerful groups don’t want it to, either that or nobody cares, or both. But to me, since the American government have created coups in many Latin American countries in the name of the opposing countries’ vastly different business views, it shows that the US and most likely (almost definitely, in my opinion) the UK government, value their imaginary economies over human life.

      This is where my tendency to believe that the illuminato

      • Beenie says :

        ***The illuminati could exist. From a concern for the disgustingly high levels of immoral disinformation and corruption.

        So this is why I believe conspiracy theories can concern real problems, although they may be misguided.

        Also, it depends what type of conspiracy you are talking about. The thought that the US government created coups in many Latin American governments, was once a conspiracy. But that was a real problem, thousands were tortured and killed. So is it insane to expose that?

      • a rational person says :

        beenie, there are 2 kinds of people. one group is made of people who can do something about real problems in the world. the 2nd group is made of conspiracy nutbags who sit around and jerk off about their bullshit “nwo” and “illuminati” theories and “911 inside job!”

        those two groups have got absolutely nothing to do with each other. they don’t overlap at all.

        conspiracy nutbags have nothing to bring to the table in any discussion about real problems…all they do is distract from those problems…and in fact make em worse because they dupe people like u into thinking that they are relevant.

        the only thing u can do with these theories is ridicule and make fun of em. srsly. there’s nothing of value there…nothing at all…i don’t get why u don’t understand this. ok, u’re pissed off at corruption. but that has butkus to do with conspiracy theories.

        u’re wasting ur time, hoss.

      • anticultist says :

        Conspiracy is not Conspiracy Theory. Everyone knows conspiracies have and do occur in the real world. However everyone also knows that conspiracy theories are the imaginary invention of cranks.

        Trying to put them on equal footing is not a sound idea.

      • Beenie says :

        Well, it’s a bit post modern that all these relative truths can exist where ultimate truths are absent, doesn’t it? This is because minuscule sections of the story are used to justify their version of what they believe , regardless of what side they’re on. But the fact that an excuse such as ‘their economy is much stronger now’ may be true, it fails to take into account the full truth – that murder, rape and torture are being justified with that statement. Whether overtly or covertly, whether unwittingly or just misunderstood it is wrong and can never be justified, before or after an horrific event has been caused.

        When something is carried out, like overthrowing a democratically elected leader of a country that is of no threat to you, it cannot be defined as a ‘poor decision’, it is imperialism. And the US (along with the UK) have made these mistakes over and over, so I will never buy their excuses.

        The agenda is evident everywhere, the poor/working class are oppressed even in the UK and US – whilst the rich are often proven to be exempt from the law… then these situations are provoked and carried out to the benefit of big businesses and the detriment of the poor – their rights deminished, the wealthy’s power made greater, the poor’s ability to survive goes lower, whilst the rich’s expendable income grows, again to the detriment of the poor.

        Money is like blood, and if there is an emergency in the body that requires blood, the excess is taken from elsewhere and perhaps the face will go pale. Whilst the money flows further in one direction, the world’s poor becomes that pale face, and it causes stagnation.

        Study business and you’ll see that in our economic model, the government sees us as investors in the country, any money, even savings, are known as leakages, so they tax you to a level, and you have to put so much back into the economy. In some countries, the poor don’t have this, but in wealthy countries, the working class has very little more than that basic amount, and it’s growing smaller due to our faulty system, that seems to be partly down to back politics and banking (our unnatural interpretation if capitalism, where we bail out banks and play experiment with the economy), and the increasing luxury of the rich – matched with the decline in income of the poor.

        Granted, I don’t know a lot about economics, but some of this is very obvious stuff.

        I’ll forgive you for previously calling me stupid, because my eyes are very much open to what’s going on. It’s a war on the rights of the poorest people, most likely in an aim to keep the working classes down and allow the rich in their luxury – it’s absolutely fucking disgusting, and could never really be justified as reasonable to a truly freethinking, rational person. I appreciate your points, but I truly hope that you are not actually trying to justify the actions of the US and what pretty much is a domination agenda against the poorest members of the world’s poorest countries – it’s absolutely disgusting.

        While I agree that a seemingly reasonable idea could prove to be a poor decision in hindsight, but it’s

    • Beenie says :

      I’d definitely agree with that last statement, but to me the NWO is simply what the US is doing. So in that sense, it definitely exists, it is just the crusade of our pretend democracy, imposing itself through the evil power of big corporations and government entwined.

      We never really stood far apart in the first place, though I still stand by the fact that none of this has disproven the GDE, because pretty much that’s what is going on anyway. It’s just in ‘our’ (*) factual sense, it appeals more to reason, due to the fact it is down to greed and modern imperialism.

      But what stands behind that? Is it solely greed, or is it something more? Evidently, the people who can install Fascist dictatorships over business interests lack something that most people have – compassion and empathy, so that are not human according to our social norms.

      Have they been socialised differently? Are they mentally damaged? Could the thought that they are influence by another race be semi- plausible, considering the alien traits of these people? Or are they simply evil ?

      So the people behind the real NWO are the real mystery, as well as the motives behind why they do what they do. I don’t know that many people that could cause the suffering of a nation and still sleep at night. Most humans I know have a hard time dealing with the guilt of an argument with their mother. So what do you believe is behind this?

      I’m not saying that any of the David Icke, lizard men thing is happening here, I’m genuinely pondering what is going on, and am not trying to use rhetoric in order to bring you round to any other ideals.

      • anticultist says :

        I think humans are as prone to violence and hatred as they are towards love and kindness.

        To ignore this reality creates a dichotomy that does not exist. For within all of us is the ability and desire to do great and evil. No human being on the planet is removed from this, and to ascertain that people in power are somehow different due to some unknown or unevidenced trait would be a false conclusion/premise.

        The likelihood of what you are asking me to detail is this. Those who can sleep at night after committing attrocities are what are termed psychopaths, they have a lack of emotion and this is neither unusual or shocking. You will find that psychopathy exists in very wide areas of our society and it tends to be those who seek to have power and control over people who are likely to exhibit such characteristics in their mind set.

        So if you are looking for a culprit for the wrong doings in this world you should look towards psychopathy and its whereabouts to explain why people do such things. There are no other avenues outside the world to even consider, that is unless you want to get into the world of science fiction and implausible claims.

      • sam says :

        @anticultist
        “Which points to perhaps an agenda by a few, but on the whole a government of people who want what is best for people.”

        This is basically what I am saying. Not trying to argue here just trying to understand. The Rockefellers have funded companies that write history text books so that people receive biased information in schools. They ccreated the CFR. Rockefeller foundation also researched into ways best to control a population, which hey concluded was fear.

        I guess we may differ on who we believe holds this influence, but to me it seems like this is one topic where we may agree. So basically, I’m wondering if it’s just because you didn’t agree with the points I was making or whatnot.

    • Beenie says :

      Let’s leave the cannabis argument for now.

      I’d prefer to talk about what you were discussing earlier. So these people that cause problems such as the ones exposed by John Pilger, where (to use your term) physchopaths supposedly replace democratically elected leaders (who are also supposedly in favour of the poor), with criminal fascist leaders (also psychopaths), who in turn, not only take away the rights of the poor, but torture and kill them horrendously.

      So these psychopaths, say for instance, just the ones in the American government, are there just a few at the top? If so, why, and when did it become that way? Or are most of the government also deranged ? Is it simply that these psychopaths make it sound reasonable to normal people in the government ?

      So are they highly organised and highly intelligent?

      To put such spin on every evil sees they do, they always find a way to make it out to be reasonable – for example they say ‘their economy is much stronger now’. So these nutters also have a good understanding of the normal psyche and what is acceptable. They can evidently twist evil deeds to seem alright, like the death of many meant the good of the country’s economy – the fact that the American government may even believe that is lunacy, so their imaginary economic model is more important than the lives of humans?

      And not only that, it’s a blatant war on the poor. What a massive agenda.

      …and what? It seems America is up to its old tricks invading more countries/ supporting more coups, and their systems/ leaders get replaced. But they only seemed to previously be supporting politicians that oppress the poor. What is this all about?

      It seems pretty much like the world’s elite, who are evidently exempt from the legal system, breaking the law in countless ways, fighting against the poor, who are much less powerful, and feel the full force of the law, in every country?

      It sounds like an agenda to me, and it sounds like its spreading globally. Am I missing something?

      • Beenie says :

        Evil deed*

      • anticultist says :

        Thing is this, while the apparent evil exists dependent upon what side you are on, and how you view the world for that matter, to some a specific action may appear like a positive and beneficial deed. Or perhaps a good deed initially but in hindsight a poor one.

        However, we can’t assume that an agenda exists or that everyone is complicit if one exists. For instance. I recently wrote a paper on the power elite and it’s relevance to neoconservatism and McCarthyism. I was interested to find out that the neoconservatists had a lot of power in American politics, and had ties to right wing fundamentalist religion as well as having an ideology that religion itself was a falsehood but a useful social manipulation tool.

        To me it seemed devious that a political thought would utilise religion to sway public consensus yet all the while holding the view it was nothing more than a tool of servitude.

        What was more interesting however was this, although that concept to me seems hideous and overtly sociopathic, finding out that only a handful of people in specific key roles were in on the ideology proved to me that while their influence as having dramatic effects on society and international policy, on the whole the majority of decision makers were oblivious to this. Which points to perhaps an agenda by a few, but on the whole a government of people who want what is best for people.

      • anticultist says :

        This is not o say an agenda that is evil or against the populace of said country, but rather an agenda to implement what they perceive as beneficial to the rest of the planet. In these instances sociopaths assume that they know best, and take on a role of parent and child with the remainder of the unknowing society.

        in their eyes they know best and are doing what is best, in some cases this may actually turn out to be correct, in others it may be insidious. But once again in the eyes of a muslim extremist, neoconservatism is hideous and represents all that is wrong with society. Vice versa.

      • sam says :

        @anticultist
        You said “Which points to perhaps an agenda by a few, but on the whole a government of people who want what is best for people.”

        This is basically what I am saying. Not trying to argue here just trying to understand. The Rockefellers have funded companies that write history text books so that people receive biased information in schools. They ccreated the CFR. Rockefeller foundation also researched into ways best to control a population, which hey concluded was fear.

        I guess we may differ on who we believe holds this influence, but to me it seems like this is one topic where we may agree. So basically, I’m wondering if it’s just because you didn’t agree with the points I was making or whatnot.

      • sam says :

        “However, we can’t assume that an agenda exists or that everyone is complicit if one exists. For instance. I recently wrote a paper on the power elite and it’s relevance to neoconservatism and McCarthyism. I was interested to find out that the neoconservatists had a lot of power in American politics, and had ties to right wing fundamentalist religion as well as having an ideology that religion itself was a falsehood but a useful social manipulation tool.

        To me it seemed devious that a political thought would utilise religion to sway public consensus yet all the while holding the view it was nothing more than a tool of servitude. ”
        @anticultist
        I have come to this conclusion as well, but rather dealing with fear instead. They have tried to use fear to sway public opinion in the past(operation northwoods). And one can argue certain key people control mass media.

        Concerning operation northwoods. Suppose that it was carried out. Suppose certain people did believe it was for the good of the country to invade cuba. Does that make it right to kill innocent people and blame it on cuba? You have to wonder what their moral compass is like if they are willing to do such things.

        And you have to be open to the fact that MANY politicians don’t care about the American people. They go in politics for money, power, etc…
        What if these same people believe only elites are worthy of being called human and the rest are scum and they believe elite rule is the best for humanity to survive. A very plausible theory if you ask me.

      • sam says :

        Also, I am not great with forming my thoughts and writing it down so I may not be giving answers that satisfy you. But doesn’t it concern you that people like Dick Cheney since very early in their careers has helped with Continuity of Operations initiative, has supported torture(which all experts say is ineffective), is good friends and is often chairmember with the Rockefellers. The Rockefellers have done much to try to maniuplate the common people(not in a good way). Doesn’t it concern you that this same person was instrumental in us invading iran and Iraq. Since his early career he has gone for a policy of taking away peoples freedoms. And after 9/11 was also instrumental in the taking away of many liberties and has made it much easier to pass martial law. Don’t you wonder at what people like him intend to do? Is it really for the good of the common american citizen?

        I know this doesn’t prove evil intentions but his beliefs on the way America should be run is very clearly not what most people have in mind. He has even examined policies that would suspend the constitution. Although this doesn’t prove evil intention I still believe it is very dangerous.

        He is friends and often in partner with a man who created international organizations with arguably huge political and social power. Again, this in particular does not prove evil intention but doesn’t this at least worry you a bit.

      • sam says :

        It is very difficult to convince someone on this board through just examples alone because just an operation alone or whatever has to be taken into context. There is a lot of background information one must learn to see what their true intentions are. I hope you look into
        Professor Peter Dale Scott. Hopefully he can do a better job of explaining rampant government lies and coverups.

  46. roy fayrve says :

    you make the claim that bilderberg and trilateral commission have no real power cuz they dont have an army specifically for that group. Who are the people who attend that conference? The individuals who go there obviously have great political and economic power. your argument was invalid

    • anticultist says :

      —————————————————————————————————
      “you make the claim that bilderberg and trilateral commission have no real power cuz they dont have an army specifically for that group. Who are the people who attend that conference? The individuals who go there obviously have great political and economic power. your argument was invalid”
      —————————————————————————————————

      Actually your argument is invalid, because you have to prove that the members of the meetings are using the agendas to further international, or national hostilities for their own benefit first.

      You are framing the meetings in a negative light without any evidence at all.

      Would you also claim that a peace meeting in private between two warring factions leading generals is also a plan to usurp the planet ?

      This meeting while on appearance is very similar, in that it is private and has people in the room who on first appearances should not be meeting up, however if the meeting produces something of peace and benefit to the oppositional sides, then this meeting is a good thing. The outcomes of the meetings are the only valid point, if nothing happens from them, then projecting your own beliefs as to what they were about proves nothing.

      You have to provide the evidence that these meetings have a negative outcome through solid evidence that the agenda of a specific meeting, and its participants have then carried out specific negative actions based upon them. If you can not do that then your claims are just the rants of a paranoid mind.

      • Beenie says :

        The flaw in your point of view is that you try to justify criminal behaviour. This whole website is fucking mental, you’re fighting the insane with the ludicrous – fighting your construction of conspiracy ideals that many don’t conform to. But what it comes down to is that fighting insanity has made you deluded. You can’t justify criminal activities by posing us with a dystopia run by conspiracy theorists.

        So I come back to what I originally said, you’re fighting so hard against conspiracy theorists that you are missing what matters – we’re living in a dystopia, 2013, not 1984.

      • anticultist says :

        Go and have a cry about it.

      • Beenie says :

        Evidently*

      • Beenie says :

        Making things up ay?

        Who’s that lie for the benefit of, yourself, or just new blog readers ?

        It’s all there to be seen, you tried to justify the acts of sociopaths as I’d they think that they’re doing the best for the world, but they just make poor decisions. When those decisions result in people getting tortured and murdered, they cannot be justified.

        I think you’re a paid double-think agent. You’re orchestrating 1984.

        I’m obviously joking, but what this blog misses out is this Orwell worked for the BBC and was inspired by government initiatives. Watch the Corbett Report on exposing the BBC, and you’ll see that newspeak was inspired by a government language initiative. Now this doesn’t mean we’re living in 1984, but it means that again, the ignorance of this blog has been exposed, because the section on conspiracy theorists ruling the world dismisses Orwell’s 1984. It dismisses it by making out that dellusional conspiracy theorists use it as a means to define the world we live in, but again the half truth of this subject has been ignored, that 1984 was based on some facts, and wasn’t just a prediction or fantasy.

        So again this blog distorts reality in a means to deny dellusions that have a foothold in truth – as I have already proven.

      • anticultist says :

        No I didn’t you are just making this shit up in your own little mind. Run along little man, you’re embarassing yourself.

      • Beenie says :

        Making things up ?

      • Beenie says :

        ‘Thing is this, while the apparent evil exists dependent upon what side you are on, and how you view the world for that matter, to some a specific action may appear like a positive and beneficial deed. Or perhaps a good deed initially but in hindsight a poor one.’

        This came after me (repeating myself and going on, remember) taking about the murder and torture caused by coups in Latin American countries. These ‘poor decisions’ that violate human rights laws can never be justified, and you cannot justify them by saying they may appear reasonable from on angle or another. So no, I am not making things up.

      • anticultist says :

        Listen I already explained what I meant, and you being the silly bastard you are keep smacking your gums together insisting I meant something I did not, I even went out of my way to explain to you that your interpretation of what I said was false.

        Seriously you need to just shut the fuck up and move along, you are a fucking total bore who is crying cos the world doesn’t function the way you want it.

        Do something about it if it pisses you off, crying like a little bitch on the internet about just makes you look like a little bitch.

        Grow some fucking balls and do something about it if you think it’s so bad.

    • Beenie says :

      No, you fucking fool – if you’re saying it can be justified, then you’re denying the ultimate truth that torture and murder are always wrong in our society and that it could never be justified by any person of our culture. You’re wrong, you fucking fruitcake. Go and read your psychology papers.

      • Beenie says :

        If your family got raped, tortured and murdered, I think you would have wished you did more than write on some shitty blog, created and written by delusional pricks, who evidently don’t give a fuck about anything other than being right.

        Sad fuckers. You’re so intelligent, fucking do something with it.

        And how would you know I haven’t done anything about it? I spread the knowledge about these truthful events, what do you do? Write on this pathetic blog, that pays lip service to finding the truth, but is more about being right.

        You say you question official info, then you send me some to justify your argument when we talked about cannabis.

        I don’t think you’re as free thinking as you wish at all. You’re a slave to your ego, Frank. You have to be right! You’re ultimately flawed because of that.

      • anticultist says :

        You are just a big fucking baby, I am bored of explaining myself to you, you don’t listen and want to argue about shit you aren’t prepared to do anything about.

        I know you do nothing about it, spreading ‘knowledge’ is just your impotent way of justifying you are doing something, in reality you are doing nothing and you never will, you will continue crying about injustice on the planet and stay unprepared to do a thing about it.

        People like you are just plastic demonstrators, it’s fashionable for you to look like you care and want what is best for the planet, but you have no incentive to get off the internet and actually do anything about it. Weak ass punks the lot of you.

      • Beenie says :

        Crying because the world doesn’t function the way I want it to ? No I’m angry because I’m forced to live like a peasant around peasants who don’t give you a fuck who rapes them of their money and if they are disgusting criminals – in fact most people defend and fund these criminals aggressively through their brainwashed mindsets, insistence of paying tax and being afraid to not pay extortionate licensing fees and fines for statutes that their main reason to control and extort the poor.

        So I view you a bit like one of those aggressive morons – except you see what’s going on, so perhaps you’re worse.

      • anticultist says :

        oh boohoo, cry me a river.

      • Beenie says :

        Fashionable to be outraged by everything I just stated? Fashionable to be against the murder, torture and rape that has been caused by the same governments that don’t care about extorting their people, who don’t want to better them so they aren’t satisfied by childish entertainment that distracts them from the world’s real problems? Fashionable to be angered by my rights being oppressed by these people, who feed my people lies and biases through the media?

        What do you suppose I do about these problems? Go to my mp? What do I do?!

      • anticultist says :

        Do whatever you want it doesn’t fucking interest me in the slightest, your worries are not my concern.

      • Beenie says :

        The worries of humanity aren’t your concern either.

        It’s funny, because I’ve been as pathetic as you whilst I’ve been commenting on here.

        It’s pretty laughable that you devote so much time to this.

        I had a little realisation the other night after writing on here, but I didn’t want to say it, for fear of being deemed a troll – but yeah, your existence must be pretty worthless, for you to be devoted to this blog.

        On top of that, this biblical level blog is actually flawed, but you’re too numb to even realise it.

        I respect intelligence I do, and I wish it wasn’t so, but you most likely are more intelligent than me, but a monkey could point out the flaws here.

      • Frankie says :

        you are a nutbag full of shit. If you find this blog so pathetic then fuck off!!
        Anticultist is right, corruption and crime has always been here.. because its part of human nature to do both good and evil, but that depends on your perspective of both.
        Just because he doesnt support your idiot wootardist ideas, doesnt mean he isnt aware of the evils of the world. He, and others, want to change the world. The only difference is that we dont believe in fucking anthropomorphic reptiles controlling the government, we dont believe in Thrive and its nutty claims, and we dont believe in that fucking flying donut that is uselesss as fuck. Its just a fucking shiny donut that makes you nutbag conspiratards feel turned on and masturbate to it.
        Just admit you like the donut and that it is the reason you believe in this bullcrap.
        Seriously, you dont have to believe in thrive to have a donut, just buy one at wallmart or something and use it as you wish.
        Lets see if it gives you your free fucking energy, but it wont.

  47. 1piece says :

    Conspiracieo

  48. 1piece says :

    Conspiracies**

  49. Preston says :

    ‘Debunked’ seems like a somewhat strong heading for this article. While I agree the author brought up multiple points and concerns that I am sure *some* NWO believers are not/have not thought about, realize what you are actually doing.

    You are bashing people for believing in something that they lack the facts to back up. OK…so far, so good. But, you are doing so in a way that is itself devoid of facts. So you blast someone for looking at what is going on around them and inferring/assuming, whether correctly or not. But then you go to do the same yourself.

    I agree with your premise of if you do not have facts then I don’t need to believe what you are saying, but that just feels particularly naive in this situation. We are not ever going to get all the facts, thus we will likely always be left with a clouded view of reality. Even if we were to ever approach all the ‘facts,’ so much of it would be 3rd hand news that by the time you pieced it all together, so much of it will be subjective again anyway, once again leading us back to a lack of facts.

    I just think it a bit ridiculous to completely destroy people for believing in something based on what they see going on, and your only defense for it all is that you don’t see it going on.

    I also find it sad that at some point we moved away from looking at the beliefs of people, what evidence they might have brought to the table or not brought to the table, and moved towards attacking people rather than their beliefs. It really makes close to all of you look pretty petty. Stick to attacking ideas and not people.

    I see a lot claiming that conspiracy theorists often feel segregated and angry…take a step back and peak at your posts where you are calling people nuts and whack jobs and crazy….and tell me again who you think is full of anger.

    I feel pretty squarely in the middle of this in that I realize the fallacy of an argument devoid of facts, but I also attempt to keep my eyes open to what is going on.

    As someone pointed out earlier, and I think sums up my thoughts fairly well, is that rather than us thinking this is some grand conspiracy and trying to blame people for everything, we are rather just looking at where humanity is moving, recognizing that certain people/entities have the power to stop it, seeing that they are not actively trying to do so, and in turn attempting to theorize as to why the people who might be able to stop injustice seem to have no want to do so.

    If you look at it from that point of view, I think it a bit easier to see why people are still asking these questions. I think a lot of the conspiracy side do attempt to be logical, and I think it not a stretch to try to theorize how the world got to where it is today, and to come up with the answer that in some fashion some people must have wanted to steer us towards where we are today, otherwise we would not be here.

    You cannot blame all the problems of the world on one person or entity, but to not ask the questions of how we got here and how we can get out seems awfully shortsighted. And it sure seems like a lot of people would rather call people lunes or crazy than listen to what people are saying and try to work from there.

    • Wyboth says :

      I applaud you for not falling for the misguided traps of Thrive. However, there are still a few things that I should say. You mention that Muertos doesn’t back up his claims with facts – or at least not in this article. Although this would normally set off alarm bells for me as well, they aren’t necessary for what this article is about. All he does here is review the thought process that conspiracy theorists go through that leads them to believe in a GDA, then show why it is wrong. There’s no real need to cite evidence for doing that. On the other hand, if you are refuting something historical in nature, ex. “The Gulf of Tonkin incident was a false flag attack”, then you do need to cite sources. You can look at Muertos’s article for false flag attacks; he cites several sources. Back to my point: for debunking articles that are psychological in nature, there is no need to cite any evidence, as you are simply reviewing thought processes. I hope that made sense; if not, I’ll try to explain it in a different way.

      When you mentioned attacking people instead of their beliefs, I’m assuming you’re referring to some of the commenters and not Muertos. At first, we refuted conspiracy theorists’ beliefs, but they ignored our proof and refused to listen. Many commenters were frustrated because they could not get through to the conspiracy theorists, so they began to attack the person. I myself don’t resort to ad hominems unless I’ve done everything I can to show them why they are wrong and they either purposely ignore me or are too dim to understand.

      One other thing that triggers alarm bells is that you say that humanity “got here”. You never said what “here” was, but you refer to it as something negative. I’m assuming that you believe that mankind is in some deep trouble threatening its existence. You could mean Global Warming, in which case you’re fine, but you also could mean a New World Order, in which case you’re on skid row, or fallen off it already. This seems unlikely based on your previous statement: “I realize the fallacy of an argument devoid of facts…”. Please do clarify what you mean here.

      Cheers,

      Wyboth

      • Preston says :

        I was referring largely to the comments. Agree that the article does a good job at showing the fallacy of an argument such as the one it dissects, which is one that conspiracy theorists are known to fall victim to.

        To expand a bit, I was guess I was just taken aback at how seemingly quick people dismiss other points of view. Especially when you know there are going to be a lack of facts…and yes then you might say well that is what conspiracy theories are built upon, a lack of facts. It just seemed some did little to attempt to see the other side…perhaps I am wrong.

        On the other part, yes I suppose I did speak about ‘here’ in a negative way. Wasn’t really meaning to mean that, just in the sense that conspiracy theories always touch on something negative, and is where my mind was.

        To clarify, I just meant here as in just where we are in time and development, I suppose. If it was overly negative, probably was that I just think where we are now leaves a lot to be desired, that is very much so in our means to fix, but that is not being fixed. This is totally separate of any idea that someone is intentionally causing this, just that it is. A lot of people around the world are exploited in our current system, and I think we all know we can do better.

        That said, I can certainly see how people would wonder long and hard about why we don’t make simple changes that can alleviate a lot of this, and perhaps in doing so they arrive at a ‘conspiracy theory.’

      • Wyboth says :

        Once you’ve been on conspiracy blogs and debunking blogs for a while, it becomes easier to tell what types of conspiracy theorists people are, and whether it’s worth debating with them or not. I’ve already gone through all of the mental processes for each conspiracy theory before when battling with different conspiracy theorists, and each time arrived at the conclusion that the conspiracy isn’t true. Don’t get me wrong, I looked at everything objectively and saw both sides. It’s just that when you’ve done that a few times, it’s pointless to go back.

        I’m also glad that you weren’t talking about NWO-ish stuff. I agree that several people are left out of our current system, especially those in Africa and the Middle East (these aren’t the only problems we are facing). These are big problems, but the power of one person is small. The way that you can help is to elect representatives to government who you think will solve these problems, not to delve into the world of the paranoid and throw out the entire system. Conspiracy theorists fail to understand this, and so we have bumper stickers littered on traffic light poles preaching “9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB” and a lifetime supply of fabricated conspiracy websites polluting the internet and unwary people’s minds.

      • sam says :

        I went back on this site on a whim cuz I was curious to see whether you had bothered to reply to the facts that I had given you regarding government drug trafficking. Apparrently you either chose to ignore it or you forgot about it. Although I believe it’s because I gave you solid evidence which you could not refute.

        I find it funny that you claim conspiracy theorists fail to give you evidence. I have given numerous evidence of at least very powerful people working against the common good. People who lie for personal gain. And government corruption. Why have you not addressed my post yet?

        I’ll admit, there are a lot of conspiracy theorists who can’t logically back up their claims, but I have backed up my claims. And when I proved you FACTUALLY wrong you don’t reply. And now you reply to someone else saying people don’t provide you evidence. Blatant lie or misconception.

      • anticultist says :

        No Sam you were not ignored because you provided evidence that was irrefutable, it is because you are the only person who believes your evidence somehow creates the illusion of an outright agenda against humanity.

        Hence why no one will ever be able to dissuade you from your belief patterns.

        You will maintain your beliefs as long as you keep seeing patterns and joining dots that are not there, something no poster here can rectify within in you. Something you are likely unable to even see in yourself, because it lies underneath everything you believe, it is the catalyst of of your very behaviour.

        Of course this reply won’t be good enough for you, because you want someone to deny that governments do bad things, and that is something none of us would do. Given that there is evidence for those things all over the world. However, this is not some self revealing evidence of a hierarchic agenda, which is something you are unable to quit believing.

      • sam says :

        Actaully, in my posts with wyboth I just wanted to prove that the government has done things which people believe the government would never do. The agenda against humanity is a separate issue that I was not arguing about with wyboth. He stated that “the government is not involved with drug trafficking” to his knowledge. He told me to prove it to him and I did. He has yet to respond to the facts I gave him. It would take many pages to prove an agenda against humanity and this is not a good forum to do that.

        And actually, the main reason most people don’t believe in nefarious people trying to take away peoples liberties is because people don’t know about the terrible things the government has done. I was just trying to expose him to facts so he wouldn’t be so close minded. I was not asking him to come to the conlcusion that I have come to. I just wanted him to respond to the facts I gave him, which he had requested.

      • sam says :

        “Something you are likely unable to even see in yourself, because it lies underneath everything you believe, it is the catalyst of of your very behaviour.”

        Nice quote. It applies to yourself too don’t you think?

        We don’t have to talk about their intentions, since to be honest, none of us know the politicians personally. We can argue facts though. And the United States has participated in forceful mind control(MK Ultra), drug trafficking, Child Trafficking(franklin coverup). And a whole bunch of examples of crimes against US citizens if you bother to look them up.

        “However, this is not some self revealing evidence of a hierarchic agenda, which is something you are unable to quit believing”

        I agree partly with your point because just because the government does bad things doesn’t mean they want to take over humanity. BUT it would take extenisve research to prove it does or does not have that goal in mind. Each person can draw their own conclusions.

        I cannot draw conclusions for other people. They have to decide for themselves. I have provided evidence of EVIL acts by the government so that they are at least more open to the idea of the evil intentions some politicians have.

        I have joined the dots and come to the the conclusion that their is at least some evidence of a hierarchic agenda. And to be fair, you don’t have the required knowledge to judge me of being delusional since I can say with confidence that you dind’t know half the facts I have posted on this website. Nor did the person who created this website.

      • sam says :

        Additionally, you are asking that I provide evidence of their intentions. Intentions are hard to prove. A criminal isn’t just going to admit he did a criminal act. Thats why investigators look at evidnece to see what ehir intentions are.

        You cannot say all evidence lies with me to prove an intention. Because now you are assuming that there isn’t a group with great political power to use use people for their own greedy reasons(world control as an example).

        This discusision has been mainly me providing examples of evil people involved with international governments who have committed great atrocities. And on the other side its you calling people quacks, analyzing their mind, which borders on contempt, and is a very unnatractive quality in a person

      • Wyboth says :

        I thought I replied to you, but I guess not. Oh well, now’s the time to do so.

        1. Iran-Contra: The US sold weapons to Iran in hopes that they would release US hostages. It wasn’t about selling guns for drugs, and it doesn’t prove that the US is doing that now.

        2. Fast and Furious. The US sold guns with trackers on them to drug lords hoping to track down their locations. It didn’t turn out well, but it doesn’t prove that the US sold guns in return for drugs and is still doing it now, as you claim.

        3. Operation Watchtower. I don’t know where you’re coming from on this one, this is a WWII offensive strategy against Japan. Nothing to do at all with drug lords.

        In conclusion, the two relevant ops were not drug trafficking. They weren’t about trading guns for drugs and they don’t prove that the US is doing so. Thus, you did not prove that government drug trafficking is real by providing solid examples of it. Try again.

      • sam says :

        Thank you for the reply. I’m glad you decided to argue with facts instead of name calling like some of these other posters.

        First, iran contra was not just an operation to free hostages. In fact, it did a lot more than that if you bother to read more into it. The CIA often uses illegal drugs to fund certain groups that would help the CIA’s cause. I will also introduce some flaws in the account you gave to me. If it was really to save hostages, why didn’t the CIA just destroy the cocaine when they got it? The cocaine they got from the contras eventually ended up in Los Angeles, being used by gang members and whatnot. Also, another thing doesn’t make sense. Funding the contras was illegal through the Boland amendment because the Contra militants raped, murdered, etc…
        What gives the CIA the right to fund a killing machine to save a few hostages. You should know well enough that there is a lot more to the operation than just saving hostages. So no, your point does not disprove dirty government drug trafficking.

        On fast and furious, I’ll admit I don’t know enough about this particular incident to prove anything super “dirty” with this operation since there aren’t any declassified documents that I know of on this issue.

        Third, Its operations pegasus, amadeus, and watchtower. Its grouped together. There is probably another operation named watchttower like you stated which is different than the three above.

        Fourth, I invite you to read just a summary of what professor Alfred W. McCoy found through his resarch on the CIA.
        http://www.scribd.com/doc/524830/The-Politics-of-Heroin-in-Southeast-Asia

        He uncovered CIA operations in supplying arms and protection to multiple drug lords all over the world, including the mujahideen.

        Lastly, I hope you look more into CIA and FBI drug operations because it’s there. You focused on a small part of the operation which was the freeing of hostages.

        You can probably shoot professor Al Valdez, a former cop, an email if you want. He actually has first hand knowledge of CIA and FBI involvement in illegal government trafficking.

      • sam says :

        Also, professor Peter Dale Scott.
        http://www.history-matters.com/pds/DP3_Overview.htm

        Hopefully you read the link on Peter Dale scott. Giving examples isn’t enough since you can’t just go look up wikipedia on the iran contra scandal and point out that it was just about “hostages”. That is not researching the topic and is not a very good argument. Again, it’s very hard to have a good debate about this since it would take many many pages to type out good arguments so hopefully youll at least skim the sites I gave you.

      • sam says :

        Sorry, one more thing. Im guessing you probably went on some site like wikipedia to look up some of those events but thats not the way you should approach these subjects(Im guessing this based on the misguided answer you gave me about iran contra being about hostages). A better way would be to look at research that professors have done since they obviously have done more research than all the people on this board combined.

  50. OsamaObama says :

    Dear silly NWO agent, yes we know what you are. People don’t write this crap unless they’re compensated for it. We know, the world is run by 147 corporations:
    http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1107/1107.5728v2.pdf

    How many people do you suppose run these companies? Please shill, debunk this study.

    We know, the world bankers own and run the federal reserve which is wholly and completely independent of the US government, as stated by Alan Greenspan himself, and your statements to the contrary are LIES.

    When you stated your belief in the climate scam I knew you are a FRAUD. Decent people of average intellect know the global warming HOAX is manufactured by the same bankers to seize power and create money from trading AIR as disclosed in the pathetic ‘scientist’ conspiracy emails:
    http://www.wnho.net/global_warming.htm

    An autistic braindead child can see the FRAUD that is inherent in man made climate change. You sir, are a puppet of NWO and you have ZERO credibility.

    I encourage anyone with a spine, with intellectual curiosity and integrity to take a look at the documentary “Money Makers”. Here you will begin the journey to realizing the ABSOLUTE INDISPUTIBLE FACT that there is a banking power the lurks in Europe and exerts inexorable power on the planet. It creates wars, depressions, recessions, bubbles, famine, genocide, disease, and its ultimate goal is the unification of the planet under one Communist dictatorship.

    • Wyboth says :

      As with the others, you are too stupid to take seriously. I’m not even going to waste my time with you.

      • sam says :

        You’re being a little arrogant calling other people stupid when you yourself stated that Iran Contra was about saving hostages. Anyone who has done at least intermediate research into Iran Contra would laugh at that kind of observation about Iran Contra

      • sam says :

        again, I hope you learn more about CIA drug trafficking by looking at this link by professor Dale Scott of UC Berkeley
        http://www.history-matters.com/pds/DP3_Overview.htm

      • sam says :

        Also, CIA drug trafficking is not even close to being a conspiracy theory. There are a few senators who want a more open CIA because the CIA are participating in these illegal activites.

        Also, regarding the fact that you said iran contra was about hostages. I know that is one of the stated reasons. But you cannot take something like that at face value with a covert operation like this. It’s plain bad research.
        Again, two fatal flaws in your logic. The cocaine they got from this operation went into the general populace in Los Angeles. Why was it not destroyed, but disperesed into the public population???
        Again, why did they support the Contras in this operation? The help the CIA gave them killed would help the Contras kill far more than the few hostages saved.

      • sam says :

        Rep. Jack Brooks himself stated that the people involved in Iran Contra destroyed and altered heaps of evidence, which he assumes is because they had additional activities that were bad enough that they didn’t want Congress to know about.

        Honestly, I’m not gonna be able to convince you by telling you. And you’re not gonna learn the true story by going on major news sites or wikipedia. You should look into what some real researchers have uncovered and come to a conclusion about. And if you don’t want to, well, then you can’t tell me that it’s not going on just because you’re too ignorant to learn about all the evil stuff our CIA has been involved in.

      • sam says :

        Also, Barbara Honegger, a white house policy analyst found that Ronald Regan made a deal with Iran: which was that the U.S. would send arms to Iran if Iran would agree to delay the release of hostages. Now why is that? Why is it supposedly that the U.S. wants to release hostages and yet also wants to delay the release of the hostages?
        There was a huge coverup concerning the hostages. These politicians are two faced. They have their own agenda(whether its bad or good is up to you to decide).

        It’s funny that you’re calling other people stupid when you’re explanation for Iran-Contra was so laughable.

      • sam says :

        The fact is our government has supported many corrupt organization across the world. The hostages were a cover if you look into it. There was a far larger political agenda than just saving hostages.

      • sam says :

        IF you cannot even come to grips that our CIA is REGULARLY involved in these types of activities, then it is NO WONDER why you cannot even fathom the possibility that there are politicians who want a NWO because they are power greedy. You’re just gonna say that it’s something too crazy to happen in the real world.

        Guess what buddy. You can keep on calling other people stupid and keep on being a hypocrite.

        There are conspiracy THEORIES, and this is not one of them. It’s part of CIA history and part of what the CIA does.

  51. Wyboth says :

    I forgot to post, but the other day I was in my school library and came across a conspiracy theorist (first time in real life). He was watching Alex Jones / Infowars videos, so I confronted him. He had a heavy lisp and talked very slowly, perhaps indicating his mental condition. All that he talked about was the New World Order. He showed me the Bush and Biden “New World Order” speeches, so I showed him this article. “Is that the best you can do?” was his reply to it. Apparently nothing in it registered, not even the logic game. Ironically, he started complaining that it didn’t link to any sources. I told him that it was all logic debunking so it didn’t need to. Ironically again, he complained that all of my sources were from the internet. The funny thing was, a couple of other people came over and started arguing on my side.

    It’s sad what conspiracy theories do to people. Now I want to take a sharpie to all of those infowars bumper stickers littering our telephone poles.

    • sam says :

      What do you say to the fact that I’ve heard Al Valdez, a former cop say that he’s seen both CIA and FBI in complicit drug trafficking. Not to mention the findings of professor peter dale scott on CIA opium trafficking.

    • sam says :

      btw, your answer about one in particular(iran contra) was very misinformed. The CIA has been known to use drug trafficking to fund criminal organizations who would support the CIA’s agenda. Honestly, this isn’t even theory. It’s actually happening. It just that I’m having a very hard time convincing you since you don’t want to do real research, instead you have only looked into shallow information on the internet.

      • Wyboth says :

        If by “real research” you mean looking at a few infamous incidents, skipping rational thought and forcing them to be things they aren’t, then drawing nonsensical conclusions from them, then yes, I haven’t been doing “real research”. But this draws me back to my original point about burden of proof. You have made the claim that CIA drug trafficking is real. It isn’t up to me to spend the next few days doing research to either prove/disprove it, it’s up to you to show evidence of it. So far, the evidence you have given has not proven your claim. Eyewitness testimonies are not evidence because they cannot be proven. Because you have not shown reasonable evidence to prove that CIA drug trafficking is real, and because it is contrary to my current knowledge of the nature of government agencies, I do not believe that CIA drug trafficking is real.

        This is called a rational thought process. It is how you can stop yourself from believing things which can’t be proven and are most likely false. Since you already believe in CIA drug trafficking, I’d encourage you to retrace your steps. Go back through how you came to believe in it, and re-examine each piece of evidence and see if it does indeed point to drug trafficking or not. If you find that they don’t actually prove drug trafficking, the rational conclusion is that it doesn’t exist, and this conclusion will not change until sufficient evidence arises to prove it.

        If you’re not ready to do this, at least consider the possibility that you’re wrong. You should be able to admit that it is possible that you are wrong and that CIA drug trafficking isn’t real. I’m willing to say that it’s possible I’m wrong and CIA drug trafficking is real. If you cannot say that it’s possible you’re wrong, you are insane, and I cannot help you at all.

      • sam says :

        ” it is contrary to my current knowledge of the nature of government agencies, I do not believe that CIA drug trafficking is real.”

        Thats not very rational thinking if you ask me haha. By the way, CIA is covert so you have no idea what the nature of the CIA is. I’ve read books by people who did research on the CIA and they have a very different than you. It’s not research per say, but I can assure you, it’s a lot more reading than you have done on this subject matter.

        Like I said, it would take me forever to give you all the evidence and its not up to me to do that.I just gave you legitimate examples which you could look into. It’s not my job to dissect each individual event, especially when your arguments against drug trafficking are so basic. The only solution is for you to do deeper reading into these matters on your own time.

        Like I said before, if you dont want to do that, don’t call conspiracy theorists stupid. Cause as far as you know, you’re just as ignorant.

      • sam says :

        On a final note. I know I could be wrong. Im sure I’ve read more Facts and research on these matters than you and have come to the conclusion that theres very little evidence that the CIA isn’t currently doing this. VERY LITTLE. I’m sure that if you actually look deep reading into IRAN CONTRA you’ll come to the same conclusion.

      • sam says :

        “If by “real research” you mean looking at a few infamous incidents, skipping rational thought and forcing them to be things they aren’t, then drawing nonsensical conclusions from them, then yes, I haven’t been doing “real research”. ”

        I agree I did that with fast and furious. But with Iran Contra. Nope. Thats what you did concerning Iran Contra. I thought we were having a debate but now it looks like you want me to feed you all the information likea a baby. Why don’t we continue this debate by you telling me why the cocaine gained from this operation was funneled into Los Angeles into the general population.

        Now, doesn’t that make you wonder at what the CIA’s motives are. Doesn’t the fact that Iran was bribed to hold the hostages longer make you wonder what Raegans motivations are. I’m debunking the official story, and this site is debunking conspiracy theories. But for some reason, you think you guys don’t have to provide any evidence, like you said to that guy watching infowars.

        How bout you defend the official story given by the raegan administration and give facts to back it up while you’re at it. Or just use rational logic, which you and anticultist think you have so much of. Why was cocaine from this operation funneled into Los Angeles. And why did the Raegan administration want to prolong the containment of the hostages. It went against the official story but it did happen.

      • sam says :

        btw, its not very rational to call other people stupid when you know next to nothing about the topic being discussed. It’s also not rational to expect other people to feed you information on a topic which requires boatloads of reading.

      • Wyboth says :

        Fuck, Sam, can’t you organize your thoughts in one post? I’m just looking at the sidebar and it’s flooded with your name. Replying to all of your separate posts is going to get pretty dubious.

        “Do research on your own time!” I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I’m not about to spend my entire weekend researching a conspiracy theory. It is not my job to prove that it is false. It is your job to prove that it is true. If you can’t do so, don’t expect anyone to believe you. Watch this video for more about burden of proof: http://youtu.be/KayBys8gaJY It’s mainly about those trying to prove that God exists, but it can be applied here as well. Hopefully that will clear some things up. I can understand if there’s a lot of material, so only cite the most relevant material, and for the love of God, if you’re linking to an entire book, EXCERPT the relevant part. If I have to hunt through an entire book with no clues to find one relevant section, forget it.

        And here’s another point: you admit that there is very little evidence for it. That is good, you have taken the first step. Never forget that every argument has two sides. I’d encourage you to look into the evidence against CIA drug trafficking next. Compare how much evidence there is for and against drug trafficking and which is more convincing. If there is more evidence against drug trafficking than there is for it, and if that evidence makes more sense than the other, then you should believe that drug trafficking is false. However, and I must stress this, you cannot make your search biased towards any one side. If you purposely spend more time gathering pro-trafficking arguments and glaze over the anti-trafficking ones, your search is biased and becomes pointless. You absolutely must be objective. You cannot let any personal feelings or beliefs get in your way, otherwise the entire thing is a waste. Still with me?

        “Why don’t we continue this debate by you telling me why the cocaine gained from this operation was funneled into Los Angeles into the general population.” Here we go again with burden of proof. You are making the claim that the CIA gave cocaine to LA citizens. I challenge this statement. The burden of proof is on you to prove that this is true. We’ll continue this section of the argument if you do so.

        Most of your other comments are again asking me for proof. I hope you’ve watched the burden of proof video and know that it is indeed your responsibility to prove your claims and not mine to disprove them. If you’ve watched the video and understand burden of proof, you should realize that all of your subsequent comments are asking me to disprove your claims, and you should realize that that is flawed reasoning.

      • sam says :

        I don’t know where you got the idea that there is very little evidence. Actually, I can’t find any reliable evidence against drug trafficking. Here you go again talking about “CONSPIRACY THEORY”.

        You talk all smart and think it proves that you’re more rational but you are operating under the fact that its a “conspiracy theory” cause YOUVE NEVER HEARD OF IT. that is flawed logic to me. I stated it once and i’ll state it again. CIA drug trafficking is as real as drug smuggling across the border.

        And when you actually bothered to have a debate with me I countered your logic with more facts. And obviously since you are rather ignorant of the matter you resort to “Oh I’m rational and you’re crazy”. I simply pointed flaws in your logic so that hopefully you might be a little more curious as to what transpired. But you resort to name calling so you won’t seem stupid by having a legit debate with me.

      • sam says :

        where do you get off calling CIA drug trafficking a conspiracy theory. I wanna ask you this. Are you denying that Iran Contra happened. Cause that’s the only way i’ll accept the fact that you think it might be a “theory”. Or are you saying that the CIA didn’t break a whole bunch of laws when they participated in the trading of drugs? Cuz either one, you’re wrong.

        And i’m going to give you an excerpt since you requested it. Hopefully this will at least make you a little more open to the idea since for some reason you can’t accept the fact that it’s happening.

        “One of the most crime-ridden CIA assets we know of is the Mexican DFS, which the US helped to create. From its foundation in the 1940s, the DFS, like other similar kryptocracies in Latin America, was deeply involved with international drug-traffickers. By the 1980s possession of a DFS card was recognized by DEA agents as a “license to traffic;” DFS agents rode security for drug truck convoys, and used their police radios to check of signs of American police surveillance.[10] Eventually the DFS became so identified with the criminal drug-trafficking organizations it managed and protected, that in the 1980s the DFS was (at least officially) closed down.[11]Thus the CIA-DFS alliance was at best an uneasy one, with conflicting goals. The CIA’s concern was to manage and limit the drug traffic, while the DFS sought to manage and expand it.

        Management of the drug traffic takes a variety of forms: from denial of this important power source to competing powers (the first and most vital priority), to exploitation of it to strengthen the existing state. There now exists abundant documentation that, at least since World War II, the US Government has exploited the drug traffic to finance and staff covert operations abroad. Perhaps the most conspicuous example is the massive paramilitary army organized and equipped by the CIA in Laos in the 1960s, for which drugs were the chief source of support. This alliance between the CIA and drug-financed forces has since been repeated in Afghanistan (1979), Central America (1982-87), and most recently Kosovo (1998). ”

        He’s provided all the sources you’ll need and has done more research on this than I’ll ever be able to do.

        If you want to know, he’s professor peter dale scott from UC Berekely

        from the link
        http://www.history-matters.com/pds/DP3_Overview.htm

        Honestly, I don’t know what else I can do to convince you. If you still call this a conspiracy theory, you might as well call the presidential office a conspiracy theory too. You’re just living in denial.

      • anticultist says :

        Don’t bother Wyboth, he just comes back saying the same crap. If not today, then weeks down the line after having been pulled up on the irrational belief.

        Essentially you are dealing with a person here who thinks they understand how history and all the decisions made were carried out. This person is also under the impression that every decision was willfully despotic and designed to cause harm to the populace through covert and top secret planning.

        You can’t really get anywhere with people like this, firstly they rarely concede points, secondly if they are wrong there is always a what if back up plan to cast doubt on facts that kill the belief, thirdly they will simply continue with the belief no matter what you present.

        You might as well be talking to yourself for all the good you intend to do to help them.

        This is the reason s[p]am is being ignored by me, I gave him multiple chances to enter into adult debate and he is still saying the same crapola with the same slanted view above, even after being shown why his thinking was warped.

      • anticultist says :

        PS Wyboth.. Peter Dale Scott’s credibility is already under question since he co authored “Book 9/11 and American Empire Vol 1″ and believes 911 was an inside job.

        This guy obviously makes many mistakes in his academic output due to belief.

      • anticultist says :

        Scott has written about the role of the “deep state” (as opposed to the “public state”). Rejecting the label of “conspiracy theory”, he has used the phrase “deep politics” to describe his political concerns

        Semantics, he tries to manipulate the fact he is a conspiracy theorist and re labels it to make himself feel better about the stupid shit he believes.

      • sam says :

        You know what anticultist. I’ve tried to understand where you came from. But the fact is you’re arrogant. plain and simple.

        ” Peter Dale Scott’s credibility is already under question since he co authored “Book 9/11 and American Empire Vol 1″ and believes 911 was an inside job”
        Great rational thinking here. Just cause he believes something you don’t he’s automatically invalid.

        The only adult argument you’ve tried to have with me was stating how some of the facts I pointed out don’t nexessarily mean evil intentions. And I agree that that is partly my fault since I assumed you guys had more knowledge of our history, so I assumed you guys could possibly connect some points.

        But after you pointed that out, you resorted to name calling and contempt.

        You know what wyboth. You’re so full of psychological bs. Guess what the most unnatractive characteristic of a human is. You have a lot of it. It’s arrogance.

        Go loook back on the posts. I’ve tried countering with info waaay more than you have. After the first one or two posts you resort to belittling.

        You think you’re so good with words don’t you. You haven’t attacked a single point peter dale scott made, instead you attack his “semantics” to try to discredit him. When wyboth presented his beliefs on iran contra i countered with facts and debunking. You counter with belittling and basically name slander. Cause guess what. The fact is, if we talk facts, you’ll lose :) plain and simple

        The only facts you and wyboth have presented against my case to my knowledge:

        1) you said things that happened in 1930′s happened to long ago for us to think it’s still happening now.
        Which isn’t even a fact at all. Just an opinion.

        2)Wyboth said Iran Contra was about hostages. Clearly knows nothing about the subject.

      • sam says :

        And no, peter dale scott isn’t a conspiracy theorist. He doesn’t necessarily believe the government purposfully tried to destroy the american people on 9/11. He participated in the 9/11 briefings and found large amounts of coverup. You honestly are one of the most arrogant people I have encountered on the internet.

        Just cause this professor(who is way smarter than you by the way you stuck up prick) believes in something different than you, you think you can examine his mind and know what he’s thinking. Guess what, even the most learned psychologist can’t help himself, especially when you has a disorder known as a huge ego.

      • sam says :

        p.s.

        plain and simple you’re a coward. An arrogant coward. What gives you the right to just slander someone who’s actually participated in 9/11 briefings and done hundreds of hours more analysis than you on 9/11. What makes you so great that you know the truth better than someone who obviously has better credentials and put more work into it than you.
        arrogant prick

      • a rational person says :

        sam, u’re the arrogant prick.

        u believe 911 was an inside job. that proves your brain is fucked up and u don’t know facts when they come up and piss on your shoe. as long as u think 911 was an inside job, nobody should take anything you say seriously.

        i don’t know this peter dale scott guy but because u like him and u claim he’s done “research” on 911 that makes me think he beleives 911 was an inside job. he probably doesn’t come out and say it because he doesn’t want people to call him a nutbag. well, guess what. if he believes 911 was an inside job, he’s a nutbag.

    • sam says :

      “because it is contrary to my current knowledge of the nature of government “If you’re not ready to do this, at least consider the possibility that you’re wrong. You should be able to admit that it is possible that you are wrong and that CIA drug trafficking isn’t real. I’m willing to say that it’s possible I’m wrong and CIA drug trafficking is real. If you cannot say that it’s possible you’re wrong, you are insane, and I cannot help you at all.agencies, I do not believe that CIA drug trafficking is real.”

      Actually, I am open to the fact that the CIA may have changed. But I have found no evidence of that. And I have looked into CIA drug trafficking STARTING WITH IRAN CONTRA!!!

      Honeslty, it looks like you’re just ignoring the facts. It’s not my job to provide every single evidence to convince you cuz thats impossible on this type of forum. I have provided several points that outlined the flaw in your iran contra logic.

      You make the claim that the CIA is innocent of this. Why is it that you don’t have to provide proof. I have provided links that you could spend 10 minutes to skim over which completely contradicts your claim. ITS NOT A THEORY. I TOLD YOU MANY TIMES. PEOPLE HAVE OBSERVED DOCUMENTS AND KNOW THE CIA IS INVOLVED.

      And if you don’t want to believe eyewitness testimonies, why do you accept the “hostage story” when ALL EVIDNECE POINTS TO THE CONTRARY. I’m not going to feed you information like that. You’re old enough to look into this yourself.

      Like I said, if you want to remian ignorant, thats your perogative, just don’t go calling other people stupid when you yourself are very ignorant on these matters :)

  52. a rational person says :

    just reread this again. this is the best fucking article on this entire goddamn site. the conspiratards dont have a leg to stand on after this and they know it, which is why so many of the fucking nutbags who love thrive flap around and make a big deal of it but they can’t refute a single goddamn thing that’s here. muertos, i never knew ya when you were still here, but you are a really fucking smart guy. i raise my glass to you sir.

  53. Jorge says :

    This “global domination agenda” is as old as the devil, and you dont any evidence of it. Read history, Alexander the Great almost conquered the world, the Roman empire almost did it, Germany almost didt, USA is working on it, every gnostic empire tries to conquer the world, that s a fact and is part of their philosophical ideas. Your debunk is totally wrong, it is based on elemental history ignorance.

    • boswell says :

      Appeals to mystery won’t suffice as your evidence I am afraid. We live in the 21st century and your outdated religious ignorance doesn’t cut it in the scientific world we live in.anymore.

    • a rational person says :

      wow…way to get history wrong there hoss. think you need to go back to school. read a book. c’mon, u can do it, punkin!

  54. Matt says :

    I have read your article in it’s entirety. It immediately comes to my attention that you are both grossly uninformed and misinformed. Instead of taking the “Theories” and doing your own research to try and prove them, you go ahead and “Prove” them wrong. In order to accomplish this you use the same reasons and methods you allege that “Conspiracy theorists” make. I don’t know what sites you’re going on or who you’re talking to but they’re obviously misinformed as well. You speak in absolutes and have not come up with one shred of evidence to debunk any of this theory. Your article is full of contradictions. While I understand your neighborhood watch analogy, it makes no difference and does not help your case. The difference in scale of the two situations is far to vast to be able to compare the two logically. Let me give you a more appropriate analogy. Look at the amount of time and resources that go into selling a box of cereal to a child. Millions of dollars in R&D just to pick the colors on the box. Now you really think that a group that is in charge of controlling almost 7 billion people wouldn’t put the appropriate amount of time and resources into the effort? Or that people that want to take advantage of others, when put in the most advantageous and probable positions to do so, wouldn’t? I am able to pick out any point that you tried to make and provide an appropriate rebuttal with ample evidence to support my claim although your half assed article does not warrant my time. I really just couldn’t leave alone what I was reading.

    • conspiracykiller says :

      You are too lazy or incapable ?

      I think it’s clear you are just hoping you can claim things wrong with the article and not provide specifics.

      I am calling you out and asking you to prove the article incorrect with evidence and specifics, or else be considered incapable.

    • bluecollarcritic says :

      @Matt

      Well said! Unfortunately it will fall on deaf (not dumb) ears because the full-time debunkers here and most other so called debunking websites are not trying to seek truth to some claim but work to counter any claim that infers that the government and or its corporate bosses/partners are involved in any effort to control society on a global scale and move it towards a technocracy where the modern day billionaires are the royalty, their multi-millionaire managers are the high end servants and the rest of us are serfs, slaves to the royalty. After all why would those with large wealth and power want to obtain undeniable and unchallenged power for generations to come just like their ancestors had?

      When I first found the THRIVE Debunked website I too believed that the so called debunkers were simply misinformed/misguided. After having been involved with this site and others like Metabunk I’ve realized that they aren’t traditional debunkers like the Amazing Randy who debunks con men and fraudsters. These anti-conspiracy debunkers stay focused on mostly those things that lean towards potential government/corporate corruption especially if it involves the idea of moving society towards that of a technocracy, a modern day aristocracy with technology backing it. The best way I know of to identify these professional conspiracy theory debunkers is by the method they use; the DLJ (pronounced dilge) method which consists of 3 steps.

      1) DENY – Deny any claim that hints at or pints to an organized effort involving the partnership of government and large international corporations. The ‘Deny’ step is typically used first. The way it works is that they simply deny some event or action has or is taking place. A great example of this was the initial reactions by the debunkers and the media in response to the exposing of the Fast & Furious gun running operation that the Federal Government illegally ran. It didn’t matter how much info came out about F&F those who defend the government simply denied this had happened. The F&F whistleblower has just released his book about the whole thing. The FBI lost its case top try and stop the book from being published because they and their elite bosses (not the ones in Capital Hill but the higher ups that those guys answer to) know just how difficult and expensive it’s going to be to continue getting the media to spin the whole F&F scandal now that the book from the whistleblower is out and people are able to read the whole scoop for themselves. You can see a video of the whistleblower discussing F&F and his book at http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/12/04/fast-and-furious-whistleblower-further-exposes-scandal-by-publishing-book-n1757400

      2) LIE – Once it becomes obvious that one can no longer ‘deny’ something they will switch to the ‘Lie’ step. In this step they Lie about what has actually taken place. Often this looks like spin to those who are awake to what’s going. A perfect and very recent example involves Texas Representative Shelia Jackson Lee. You can read about it at http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2013/11/15/rep-sheila-jackson-lee-claims-cancellation-notices-not-the-truth-n1747457 . Miss Lee is claiming that the insurances companies have not cancelled millions of policy’s because of Obamacare. She claims that what has really happened is that the insurers are transferring the insured to better coverage/plans that meet Obamacare requirements. She does admit that the insurance companies have handled the thing incorrectly and has accused them of lying to their customers who have received letters that their policy is being cancelled because of the Obamacare act.

      3) JUSTIFY – Once things become so blatantly obvious and its nearly impossible to Lie let alone deny something the professional debunkers that focus of government/corporate conspiracy theories switch to ‘Justify’ mode. This is where they admit that something has happened and that it has happened exactly like (or at least very much like) whats been claimed and then they go on to justify why it’s OK, Legal and or Necessary. The best example I can think of for this stage is the Income tax. Currently no one denies that the income tax is real and or that anyone earning a specified amount or more must report that income to the Feds and they pay part of it to the government as an offering called a tax. A tax is real but I use the phrase ‘an offering called a tax’ because a tax is no longer just a percentage of income paid to the government. With the recent Supreme Court ruling that Obamcare is legal we are no told that the thing is a tax and that’s why its legal and therefore can be forced upon us by the government.

      The Income tax when first presented to the public was marketed as being something that will only affect the rich. This use of “class envy” is a very powerful and popular tool the elite employ to keep us all at odds with one another. As we all know the income tax was NOT just for the rich. It may have started out as being something only the rich paid but with time and incramentalism the government was able to suck everyone into and then began moving the tax rate up and up until it got to where it is now. Currently the average American is robbed at gun point by government of more than half of what he/she earns. Granted you can avoid being held at gun point by voluntarily giving up your offering but make no mistake, the government collects the income tax under the threat of deadly force with a gun. That’s why they want so badly to disarm Americans. Just imagine how much easier it will be for government to do as it pleases once its illegal to own a firearm. The Income tax is however not applied to all. The truly wealthy in this country, those who the income tax was originally at, no longer pay the income tax that the rest of us. Do they either pay little or none at all. They are legally able to do this by use of the legal system and targeted laws and statures that favor those with money so that they can keep that money while the rest of us are robbed annually.

      The income tax is now ‘Justified’ as being necessary and a good thing because it supposedly funds the government and all the various handouts government provides to millions each year. The problem there is that the income tax goes straight to the money masters, the international banksters who are shareholders in the Federal Reserve bank which controls our Money supply. The government borrows the money to pay for its operations and handouts and uses the income tax it collects to pay off past monies borrowed. Initially this was a viable system because the USA had no debt and tremendous credit. We also had a high level of manufacturing domestically and thus we created our wealth and so printing dollars then was no problem. Our economy was so strong and difficult to break that the elite had to get their man in the white house, Bill Clinton, to eliminate the glass-steigal act and allow regular banks to gamble their investors’ money via the derivatives market. The derivatives scam should by itself be enough to prove their is a coordinated effort between government and the banks to defraud the tax payer and yet many still have no clue what caused the banks to be bailed out.

      The DiLJ method is used frequently and widely by various professional debunking organizations and persons who work directly or indirectly for the same people who have been manipulating everything for a very long time. That said there are still those out there who do seek the truth and not merely to come up with a reasonable sounding explination for something. Those persons are still open to the truth if one can only present it to them in a way that the professional debunkers can’t Deny, Lie About or Justify.

      • conspiracykiller says :

        What a waste of good text.

        Unfortunately the three steps you gave to explain how debunking the nonsense claims conspiracy theorists and new age quackery are just pulled out your rear end.I know it would be nice for you to just call all debunkers liers and then wander off claiming some kind of victory through debate, but sadly for you it’s just total bullshit.The claims of the cranks who pass through here get squashed with good old fashioned common sense ordinarily, but if they require more detailed analysis then that’s what gets done.

        Also claiming the debunkers work for the companies and the government is a very paranoid and disturbing worldview to have. People who post here are just everyday people who think that the cranks make ridiculous claims about the real world. You are a prime example with this claim.

        Basically you are dealing with real people on this blog who think the paranoid nonsense of conspiracy theorists is totally unjustified and extremely bad reasoning. The reality is a lot less interesting than you people want it to be, you simply aren’t important enough to be taken on by governments, the crap you spout is just really unimportant and it falls to normal people to debunk it.

      • Dr C says :

        I saw the “Thrive” movie recently. I was surprised by how shallow it was and how mean-spirited and how little thinking it asks its viewers to do. It is not helpful or life affirming in any way like some commenters on this blog have said. It is divisive and the messages it provides do much more harm than good. The main idea of these messages is basically anti-Jewish.

        Seeing comments like this from “bluecollarcritic” underscore how little room there is for fact or critical thought in the anti-Jewish paranoid conspiracy mind set. This person is saying anyone who disagree with paranoid conspiracy views is a deliberate liar. That settles things in the minds of believers pretty favourably for their side doesn’t it. This is why views like this are so hard to stamp out. I don’t agree with everything in this article but it is much more open to reason than the commenters pushing back against it.

  55. Ronald Anthony says :

    You have a lot of good points. You really do. But unfortunately I was one of the folks that saw the actually live video from a secret camera. The players were all there including the President. As a published writer with Black History as my genre, I could not believe it. I watched it many times. I was just shocked at what they were saying. They went right down there, naming the countries one-by-one; Iraq, Afghanistan, and so forth. I still get goose bumps when I remember the raised voices, facial expressions and more, as they chanted, “Global Domination, Global Domination, Global Domination!” If I hadn’t of seen it for myself I might not have ever believed it.

    Then one day I called a friend to my computer screen and said, “Watch this. You are not going to believe it.” But it was gone! It was pulled down off the Web and never to be shown again. When we came to the “Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave,” we killed or imprisoned every “Brave” we could find. Regard the “Land of the Free” we forced Africans to be “Unfree” so we wouldn’t have to get our hands dirty. We rewarded them nicely too. We hung them, beat them either to death or nearly so, raped their woman and children, sold off spouses and kids to other slave holders. The list goes on and on. I am so glad that we justified the whole thing too. I mean we absolved ourselves because we were teaching the “heathens” about God, Love, and Christianity. This was a really great way to educated them on the Golden Rule. Tell me again who the heathens were?

    And Please don’t come up with the old, “But that was hundreds of years ago. We have change our ways now.” Really? Come back to me on that one when we are done with our continued attempts at Global Domination. Are we done with Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and so forth yet?

    Ron

    • Anastasio says :

      @Ron

      ——————————————-
      ” I still get goose bumps when I remember the raised voices, facial expressions and more, as they chanted, “Global Domination, Global Domination, Global Domination!” If I hadn’t of seen it for myself I might not have ever believed it. ”
      ——————————————-

      As a published writer you’re not very convincing. What event was this? The screener trailer for a new Dan Brown movie?

      ——————————————-
      “I mean we absolved ourselves because we were teaching the “heathens” about God, Love, and Christianity. This was a really great way to educated them on the Golden Rule”
      ——————————————-

      I’d have thought a civil war that involved over half a million deaths would have been a little more useful in any discussion of absolution, if such a thing exists in this context, but obviously you’d rather pander to petty irony instead of history.
      Again, not very convincing.

      ——————————————-
      “And Please don’t come up with the old, “But that was hundreds of years ago. We have change our ways now.” Really? Come back to me on that one when we are done with our continued attempts at Global Domination. Are we done with Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and so forth yet?
      ——————————————–

      But it was hundreds of years ago, Ronald, and you’re comparing imaginary apples with real oranges, i.e. global domination with slavery.
      No one alive today had any part in the beatings or raping of women and children, nor would anyone condone such deplorable acts. So if what you’re saying is that we should all feel guilt or shame for events that happened outwith our control, then I would invite you to kiss my shiny white ass – or at least stop saying ‘we’. Your readers are not your imaginary global tyrants, nor are they two-hundred-year old slave traders.

      Out of interest, how are things back in the homeland? Any less corrupt than your adoptive country? How have the African chiefs made amends for selling their own kinsmen to the USA in the first place? Have you written about that sad fact anywhere, Ronald?

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  11. Why We Fight: Progressive Leader Who Repudiated Thrive Explains Why Its Conspiracy Theories Are Harmful. « Thrive Debunked - April 15, 2012
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  13. My Open Letter to Foster Gamble: Turn Your Back on Conspiracy—Don’t Let Thrive Define You. « Thrive Debunked - April 30, 2012
  14. Thrive, Zeitgeist and the Illusion of Conspiracy Activism. « Thrive Debunked - May 20, 2012
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  22. One Year Later: Thriving No More. « Thrive Debunked - November 11, 2012

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